Assisted living and nursing homes are so expensive, does anyone have any suggestions for alternative places?

karenp and igloo572 - We did find the "Residential Care Home's" here in OK to be helpful, which mom can afford and that takes care of all HER needs and MY HEALTH also. They weren't near as expensive and offer the environment of love your parnets would enjoy. Check that option in your state too!

igloo572 - Also, my mom has out lived her money (95 now) and her home health care doesn't offer what her current needs are. Her long term care policy will cover 3 months of NH care and then she goes into a Medicaid situation. That is why I'm saying our cases are different. Who knew my mom would be outliving her money!! ;))

I was just trying to warn people that when a parent gives you cash in the past like; birthday, wedding, Christmas money, vacation trips, college cash, new born grandbaby cash, etc., your state may expect all of you to pay it back

What burns me is that my mom has thousands of dollars worth of home health and NH care policies that don't fit her current needs! Even she didn't realize that the control these companies have over her money will leave you out in the cold!! I'm just really glad my mom didn't give us any cash, I was just reciting what the NH employees have told me regarding what they've see happen to some families.

Moral of the story is that if you do purchase one of the senior care policies, be sure that it cover's all health scenarios in case you too, out live your assets.

igloo572 - Does someone else live in your mom's home, like your dad or her current spouse? I know it's different if there is a spouse there, but if just one kid(s) are living with mom, and are expecting to inherit the home, while mom incurs expenses she can't pay for, in Oklahoma, you would have to sell it. What is moms (asset) has to be liquidated to pay for her expenses while she is still alive and needing fulltime care, that you yourselves can't physically give. Care giving is very exhausting (took care of mom for 9 years before my own health began to fail). Unless the home is put in the children's name 5 yrs prior to mom running out of money, and doing a "look back", here she would have to sell it. Your family sounds like there is enough of you, and an estate, to take care of her. Sounds like we are comparing apples to oranges.
Some lucky parents never have to be taken to a NH. and let's hope your and my mothers are like this. Personally, I am looking forward to the blessing of making her exit, very sweet by surrounding her with the love and tenderness she never received during her childhood.

Robin - you do not have to sell the parents homesteaded property. The home is exempt from the asset list. The only time it isn't is:
1. the home is valued at over 500K (750K in some states)
2. it is not a homesteaded property - it's income producing
3. mom is terminal under 3/6 mos (this is usual to have happen)

What imho happens is that once mom is in the NH, there is NO $ to pay for upkeep on the house, as all mom's income less whatever her state's personal needs allowance ($30 - 60) she get's to keep. So no real $ that she can use. If there is still a mortgage, this can be alot of $ due every month which has to be paid or home goes into default & foreclosure. So the family sells the house as they can't pay the mortgage. But many family do maintain the home and pay for insurance, taxes, utitlities, maintenance, etc and then in probate seek reinbursement from the estate for what they paid for. This is totally legitimate and done all the time.

I DO understand your RANT Karen, I am in much the same position. My parents worked hard took good care of their children and now we get somewhat punished. My Mother is in senior housing. It is a wonderful place she gets one meal a day and housekeeping. She has plenty of food for breakfast and supper too.. The main meal is lunch in the dining room with everyone. She has a beautiful apartment and seems fairly happy. She is sadly one of those woman who are never content. I may have to move her soon because of her restlessness and memory issues! take care and God bless...

BEWARE if your parents are giving you money gifts!! When your parents get to the end of their lives; if they OUT LIVE their money, like mine has, they have to go to a DHS/Medicade situation, (if you take care of them and exhaust yourselves being the caregive resorting to a rest home). You will have to pay back any and all monies that were gifted to you, in their past, up to 5 years if you ever have to do a "look back". Be carefull!! Also, watch how you take care of ownership of your patents home!! You may think you will be inheriting it but if you parnets run out of money, again, during the lookback you will have to sell it to pay for her care.

Oldcodger2, very good remarks. I just wish my parents had been so nice and considerate. Mom is 81, tells us her money is for a nursing home. Will not do estate planning. Does have a POA but I think it is a springing one. Does have a will and that is about it. On the POA, just my brother. So I am screwed if he dies and she is incompetent. I have explained all of this to her. In fact got really annoyed with her yesterday.

As my Dad always said, "My money is my money to burn if i want to." he has been gone for about 4 years, and, yes, no one misses him. Just hateful. Brother and I never asked for a penny, ever. All money in our family was for their care in their old age. So that is what it will be spent for. Don't care anymore.

Sad thing is Mom has close to 1 million dollars. Nothing I can do. She gives each of us 100.00 for Christmas and we turn around and spend it on her Christmas gifst. She was bitching yesterday about her cable bill, too high. Brother pays for her cell phone and she will not get a computer or internet.

You know, I intend to not do this to my kids. i may not have any money left, but I made sure my kids could support themselves. Mom and Dad were old fashioned Southerns where girls were to get married and have kids. No education either, that cost money.

I know alot of people say it is their money to spend as they see fit. I some what agree. But every action has a reaction. And when you treat your kids like they don't matter, well the kids treat you like you don't matter either. That is what you taught them.

My husbands family entirely different. Estate planning, trusts and a good bit of inheritance. Mom was treated like a queen because she was so good to her kids. Her daughter took care of her in the last year of her life. She had ALS. Not easy.

My Mom and Dad's only comment. "They didn't want to spend their inheritance." Sorry to Vent. It has been a bad week.

Karenp - welcome to the world of the elderly and care giving! Basically, if your parents HAVE any assets and end up needing AL or NH care - there will be NO inheritance for the kids. I'ts gone - UNLESS advance planning is done - and well in advance. An elderly acquaintance went into a nursing home about 15 years and within 6 months - all his money was gone. He didn't have a lot, but they made certain they got it right away.

I just read that the average life expectancy in a nursing home is 6 months - 2 years. Mostly because people are in pretty poor condition before they finally end up there. But, you can see why the nursing home inflates things to use up the persons assets quickly.

Sadly, my hubby's folks never discussed anything about growing older and never even discussed death - with anyone - not even between each other! When he died - she didn't even know what is 'final wishes' were - they hadn't talked about it. They figured if they didn't think about it or talk about it - it wouldn't happen! We got our ducks in a row when we were 50 - wills, trusts, etc. Don't put your planning off!!

If you have time - at least 5 years - (still 3 in some states) - go see a GOOD elder attorney. and see what can be done to preserve the estate. Go see an elder attorney even if you don't have 3-5 years. They can guide you.

Why do you think so many people are caring for their elderly relatives? I think first of all, it is because we care. Secondly - there aren't enough funds to pay for good care or we are trying to preserve their assets. My MIL has no assets - we just think it would break her heart to have to leave here :0(

The baby boom generation will have even LESS choice and sadly, our kids just may not want to put their life on 'hold' to care for their parents. This is NOT a blanket statement - I know there are still plenty of caring children out there - but this is a difficult and often thankless job - not everyone can do it. And the economy doesn't make it easy. I am not even sure if I want my kids to try.

I believe that our kids may be FORCED to care for their elderly - the government is broke.

You will need LOTS of encouragement - this site can help. I am sure glad I found it. It doesn't always change anything - but a person sure can vent :0)

Many look at the bills of their elders forgetting that they perhaps are getting regular wages in the forms of pension etc. My grandmother got old and we moved her to a Assisted Living Center and the amazing thing was when her gift giving, travel, lunches out, club activities, and other "fun" was replaced by good company every day at the dining hall-- the balance we had to cover was really quite reasonable compared to the freedom we all maintained, the time we had back to sell her house and sort her accumulated stuff, and the money we saved on remodeling our home to accomodate her escalating needs. We were able to sell her house in due time. And she died with $20,000 in the bank and everyone paid back who carried her for a month or two. For someone who went to zero assets in World War II she died proud.

Madge1. Yes, PD. First she had br cancer 6 yrs ago and she came through that fine but then the PD diagnosis. (I think she's had PD for a long time) and the cancer just accelerated the progression. She broke her hip 2 yrs ago and that set her back. Mom is the eternal optimist (me not so much) that she's going to get better and stronger in every way. She is dead set against a NH (can't blame her) but she's going to need one as I her condition progresses and so will the need for more skilled care be needed. THAT"S why I'm worried. I love her phys therpists but sometimes I think they live in la la land too by telling her she's going to be able to walk on her own and do this and that. know if I'm just being negative but sometimes I feel I'm the only one living in reality. I love mom but I wish she were in a NH facility (a good one of course) b/c she's getting harder for me to transfer even though she weighs next to nothing (stiffness from the PD). Mom is sweet but she drives me nuts telling me that we have to figure out what we're doing wrong when I'm having trouble transfering her. I want to say "MOM it's wrong that I"m doing this and someone more skilled isnt' -- that's what's WRONG." But she doesnt' wan to hear it -- not yet anyway. I'm an only child. She's helping me financially and medically which on one hand is nice, but makes me more tied to her. I still think she needs more skiilled care. She thinks I just need more training. I want my life back or the chance to have one again. Ah, the trials of caregiving

Kedwards, I hope it does. I have been on this site for a couple of years. I don't know why this subject got so crazy. I feel people just suffer so. Maybe I am not as good at getting my point across as I would like to believe. Mom has prepared for her future, at the expense of everything else. It has become a sickness with her. She can't enjoy anything because it would cost her the money for her nursing home. :( So Sad and a little nutty. She has ruined her relationship with me and my brother. Just wait until you read some of the posts about dysfunctional parents!!!!! Geezzzz. They will make you glad yours is nice. I learned Mom has a personality disorder and is very narcissistic. It made me see that every barb and lie does not have to pierce my heart. :)

Wow, your Mom has Parkinson's? My Dad had that. He died four years ago not from the Parkinson's but Colitius. Just weakend him until he had a heart attack. Parkinson's is harsh. You do have a lot on your plate.

Sorry for the typos in the above!

Madge1 Thank you for your kind words. Those I do appreciate. Sorry your mom was a head case. Mine is real sweet for the most part although this siamese twin existence that we share now as her 24/7 I would not recommend to ANYONE.. Mom planned for the futureor so she thought (welll she still thinks) I have my doubts after finding out about what the LTC does and doesn't do which was the true intent of my responses -- not tax codes and who pays what or who paid what past present and or future in taxes. My mother planned for the future but she did not plan for PD when planning which will more than likely land her in NH when I'm not longer able to care for her and there lies the dilemna. Maybe it will all work out -- who knows.

I am curious about the cost of care in other areas. In rural Iowa Nursing homes start at about $ 4000.00 a month, assisted living at about $2900 a month. We recently moved my Mother to what is called independant senior housing. She has a lovely apartment that is two bedrooms, she has one very generous meal once a day in the dining room and she gets weekly housekeeping. She is really happy she was very lonely after my Father's death. There are activities if she wishes to participate, games, cards, exercise, movies and Bible study but yet she can be in her apartment by herself if she chooses to be. She has her own furniture and pictures etc. I think it was the best thing for her! She will be 85 in April. My husband and I still see her frequently I set up her medication and take her to the Dr. However I don't feel so guilty leaving her now because she is not as lonely. This is only $1500 a month. If indeed she requires more "care" in the future, I will probably bring her to my house and care for her. I had the privilege of caring for my Father and my Grandparents. take care and I would encourage you to think about independant senior housing.

Isn't this site a blessing? I cannot add to the answers above, for for those of us who still can: If you can get long-term insurance, it really is a good alternative. My mother took out long-term insurance 20 years ago when she was a probation officer. CalPERS paid for 1/2 of her AL (which in CA was $3,000) so CalPERS paid $1500. Unfortunately mom's AL did not have the staff/patient ratio to accomodate her needs and we did not feel she was safe there. Now that she is at a Conv/Rehab NH, the monthly rate is around $6,000 and CalPERS pays $3,000. Mom's other assests pay for the rest. We are renting her condo. and put that money in savings. The renter pays for everything except for homeowner's dues. At this time all seems to be running smoothly.

Hopefully those of us baby boomers can learn from the above situations. Modest homes, no debt, planning for the future, frugality, being content and counting blessings, not paying for things that are not needed--those are all wonderful traits to have. Most of our parent's generation (my own Dad and others excluded) were very wise in the way they lived. May we pay heed to do the same.

Kedwards, I do pay alot of taxes and I do pay less than in the past. The tax codes change. Often each administration makes some changes in the way we are taxed. And investments are taxed differently from income.

Ron Paul is interesting. I agree with some of what he says but am too old to really think it would work. If I was 20 again, I'd probably like him. But, unfortunately, I am not 20. Sad.

You know there are lots of nice people here who can give some great advice. I have had alot of problems with my Mom over the last few years. Just a nasty head case. Because of good advice and research, I have learned how to deal with her. I am at peace.

Hope you find some peace with all the stress of caring for your Mom. Take care.

Robin166. I am so sorry to hear that about your mom not being able to use a credit she has on her LTC. THIS is the insanity I'm talking about. There is no reason why that credit should not be able to be transferred to provide for their care that she needs instead of being wasted so that she is FORCED into Medicaid. This is what happens when the gov't is too much in our business. Good point about the DHS. I need mom to contact an elder lawyer about the house but when I mention it to mom, all I hear are crickets chirping. I still haven't had the heart to tell mom what I think about her trick or treat policy. Found out what a crook it was when we found out it pays $50-100 a day for home care. She wants to pay me since I'm here 24/7 and gave up my job to help her. But mom is going to need more than just me at some point and that's more than $100 a day and this crackbox coverage ain't going to cut it.Anyway thanks Robin.

Oh just one last thing, Ron Paul was a doctor for over 30 years so he probably has some experience.

Madge1 I don't think you or anyone who pay a lot in taxes should pay more. I'm just confused that on one hand you say you pay a lot but then you seem to feel that your loopholes have you pay less than in the past. YOU seem conflicted with this NOT me. Of course I want to live in society with a saftey net for those who will never be in the socio-economic classes that you and I are blessed to be in -- you higher than myself and God Bless You. I have NO class evny on that and applaud you on whatever you got to achieve your sucess. I just feel that middle class like my mother should be able to purchase their own long term care policies, should have to them so that all their assets aren't taken and should be able to use them to provide for their needs so that they don't end up being a waste and then middle class people are forced to 'beecome poor' so that they can get on Medicaid (which is how the system is rigged now) a system that is less than ideal . You know I think Ron Paul's kind of kooky on foreign policy but he said it best last night in the debate when he said before 1965 medical care wasn't so outrageously expensive until the gov't got involved. He's right. Sorry if I sounded hostile. I think that both of our posts are probably boring the hell out to th other readers of this site. Let's do THEM a favor and cease and desist. Thank you and have a nice day.

Kedwards, why do you think I want to pay more taxes? I pay quite a bit. But because of the loopholes, pay far less than the past. It is what it is. But I don't understand why you would take offense at someone who basically wishes we had a system to help everyone who needs care. This would be you and alot of others. Just not sure why you were so hostile in your post.

My mom can't use her $36.000.000 credit she has with home health care anymore because she needs full time care now. She has a long trem care policy too for only 4 months, and will need to become medicaid after that if she continues to live (aged 94.5 now) so I am living some of what you are experiencing too.
Look back from DHS is 5 years so maybe you could change the ownership to protect the house and hope your mom won't need to go into a medicaid situation until the 5 years time limit is up? You might check with a lawyer about selling a house when no one is buying these days. That may be another way it could turn out that you wouldn't have to sell it if you can't! Or you could then sell it, use some of the money for her and be left with atleast some of the money to start a new life.
That's a hard one but really it was her house, if it's meant to be yours it will be, if not, you won't feel bad about taking care of mom with it. We all change as they change and we realize we could be like them someday, not having any $$ to have a roof over our head. Hope this helps, just keep asking around and you may be able to find a way to have your cake and eat it too.

Bhenson I hear you. My mom has 'invested' much of her $$ in a Long-Term Care policy that w hen she purchased 9 yrs ago before she got PD she thought would serve her purposes in later yrs. Let's just say -- 9 yrs later -- it most likely won't. She put the house in a living trust to me a few yrs ago but seeing as her LTC won't cover her needs that house will need to be sold while she's still alive. Best laid plans won't mean squat. She doesn't realize it because mom lives in the "I'm going to get better and stronger and isn't it wonderful I'm leaving you an asset" world. It's so sad. She did all the right things -- so she thought.

I think the fact that we all have to be paupers to get medical care or care when we are elderly is a national shame. I wonder what will happen when I get really sick. My mother employs me as her caregiver but she doesn't offer health insurance. It's my constant worry. I try to be extremely careful.

Just had to chime in here. My mom saved all her pennies for years and only ended up with about 25,000. We obviously are not well off. In order for her to get into a nursing home AND qualify for Medicaid, she had to go into the hospital, be put in rehab/nusing home paid for by Medicare for 100 days and apply to Medicaid in the meantime. We are also having to spend all of the money that she so dearly held onto in order to qualify. Yes, we are using on things for her and funeral expenses etc but it's so sad. The elderly saved so that they would have something in old age. In order to get help, they need to have nothing. IF she had $360,000. (yes that's correct), many nursing homes would have taken her of course. They want 3 years of direct payment for the good ones here in NJ. If you don't have that kind of money or anything close, you have to hunt for a decent nursing home that will accept Medicare/Medicaid right off the bat. I have NO idea what I will do when I'm oler but...I surely don't want my kids going through what my mom and myself are going through now. The system is terrible and I'm sure most people would agree. It's sad how we treat our elderly. Especially those who went through WW11 and all. "If she recieved Vet benefits, she definately would not qualify for any nursing home here. I sincerely wish you good luck and hope that you can find an answer for you and your loved one.

I just googled AHEPA and sadly there are none in my state. But hopefully your info will help someone else on this site. It's so great how many wonderful people there are here. It's so nice to know I have somewhere to go to vent and to get information and support from. Thanks everyone!!

The AHEPA apts are great. They have them in NYS or equiv where my future MIL lives (LI). She does not have income at all except for SS and Medicaid but it must cover it. She's very happy there.

See if you can find AHEPA Apartments in your area. AHEPA is run by a private fraternal organization. Seniors pay to live in an apartment based on their income. Apartments include kitchen, living/dining area, bathroom, and bedroom. I've looked at the ones here, and the staff is very helpful and the place is spotless. It isn't assisted living however...the individual must be able to care for themselves. There is an emergency button in each room and staff is available to help in emergencies during office hours. Best wishes to you...it is a difficult situation to find yourself in, but please know you are not alone.

If the nursing home patient has debt, at the end of their life Medicaid will "look back" five years. All assets can be taken into consideration for debt repayment unless sheltered with trusts, etc. I read on this site that states are looking at everything now more so than ever. If the parent gives the house away to a child or children five years before needing nursing care, then the state can not claim it. The house cannot be sold if one spouse is living in it and the other is in a nursing home. They can't put someone out of their home. But in the end, it can be claimed after all parties have died in order to settle debt. This is what i understand, someone else may have more info or I could be wrong.

I thought the home was the one asset that couldn't be sold when applying for Medicaid for assistance, and I thought there were a few other things too, like a car.

I am done here. No more posts for me