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My experience with assisted living has been very negative especial in NY. My wife got the virus in a very upscale assisted living facility on in Long Island which now advertises on radio . It was not their fault it was the governor which I blame when he sent in positve patients with covid 19 from hospitals into nursing home in effect exposing the poor seniors like my wife over 6'000 patients died, the most upsetting thing he had javiate center, navy medical ship but did not use them and they had no PPE and very little staff.
Please don't do what I did keep her in you home your let her leave only until these nursing home can prove they are keeping their facilities in compliance with the federal guide lines. Which wright now is very questionable.
dealing with her facilities before she got the virus was almost impossible and to this day it has not really changed
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Doctors don’t have the final say. Facilities will always find a way to get rid of a patient and some of you should know that by now since it’s allegedly happened to your LO multiple times 😉
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2020
I feel the same. Why are people surprised at this? It’s nothing new.

As situations change, circumstances change. No one can prevent it.

No promises can be made to keep a patient if they decline. No doctor can delay it either.
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I am quite sure that no facility can promise that a resident will be able stay "as long as they live" in independent or assisted living.
If you believe that was promised, find it in writing! It should be obvious to anyone that no guarantee like that can be made...not for any resident, at any time. I think what is meant is that they will provide a certain level of care as long as needed (which, for many, could be for the remainder of life). Good sales technique.

There used to be some companies, and perhaps some still exist, that offer a "contract" for life-long care, including whatever level of care is needed from independent living through skilled nursing care. This involved a genuine legal contract and required a substantial financial investment up front, much more than the average facility requires (or that an average family can afford)

You can bad-mouth facilities as much as you please. And some, without doubt, deserve it. The the real answer is read the fine print and buyer beware!
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2020
Yep! A business like any other business. I agree. No one can offer a promise like that.
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I thought that AL places were for ones that could handle most of their own needs but would only need minor assistance, apparently she is requiring more now that they can handle and that is why the suggested the move where she can be watched better.  Ask the administrator about the change.  If she is familiar with the place it shouldn't be too much of a shock.  hoping this works out for you.
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In order for a person to go into a care facility, (AL, MC, SNF, ect.) a "doctor" must assess the person's "level of care."

A "doctor" then must feel out paperwork called an FL2 form indicating "what level of care" someone needs.

Hence, with that being said, If a resident is already in Assisted Living and the Administrator suggests a "higher level of care" to "Memory Care", the doctor must "agree."

The Administrator does not have the authority to move a resident to a "higher level of care" unless the doctors changes it on the FL2 form.

Therefore, "The doctor does have the final say."
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Dosmo13 Oct 2020
In the facility where I live residents move from independent to assisted living or vice versa based on their own or family decision and availability at the facility. Skilled care would require doctor's order, but the last I knew (it's been awhile since I worked in the health field) civilian doctors were not required to justify their choices to anyone. Are you talking about requirements for insurance? Medicaid, Medicare? VA? some kind of long term care insurance? What? ("FL2" sounds like a government requirement). Can you clarify?
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Oh, by the way, OP is not stating the facility is trying to get "rid of their LO".

The OP is saying "the facility is suggesting a higher level of care."

You are right. I am aware facilities will find a way to "get rid of residents". However, I do not believe changing the "level of care" that has the doctor's signature on it is "a way."
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AlvaDeer Oct 2020
Doctors have nothing to do with level of care in Assisted Living Facilities. That is up to the facility itself and their own guidelines. A doctor is in no way involved.
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I am not stating about something I know nothing about. I've experienced this not once but several times.

The Administrator of facilities have suggested a "higher level of care" for my loved one. However, they could not do a thing unless the doctor agreed and changed it himself (with signature) on the FL2 form.
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AlvaDeer Oct 2020
An ALF can ask that someone has a higher level of care in California any time they want to. They can say "You are a level TWO, not one, by our own assessment of your needs; you need help with blah blah blah". Now that is a take it or leave it thing. You can either take it and stay, or refuse it and move. No one dictates to an Assisted Living the level of care needed. That is in their hands. At least in the State of California. If they feel you should be bumped up a level in care they can do that in a hot second, and your only choice is to accept it or to move.
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An FL2 form is basically a form that a doctor must fill out for a patient/resident for a care facility.

This form indicates patient/resident's diagnoses, medicines and level of care.

An FL2 form is the very first thing that a facility requests upon admittance. (where I am from)

The level of care never changes unless the doctor decides/agrees.

Here, an Administrator, Family or Guardian may "suggest" what level of care they would want for a resident but the doctor has "the final say."

No, an FL2 is not a government requirement.
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My state does not require FL2 form. On admission the doctor recommends level of care. After that it is up to the facility. If the family does not want to go to higher level of care that’s their choice. The doctor does not enter into that decision, just the facility. The doctor is not on site to make this decision.
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worriedinCali Oct 2020
Bridger the FL-2 form is specific to one state. Only 1 state uses it. It’s not like a standard thing in the US 😉
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When my LO, age 88, started to have needs for more care, the POA sent in and paid for caregivers.
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More than 1 State requires it.

I am in one state, my LO is in another state. :)
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While this is a debatable question the end result is going to have to be based on what her medical team has to say. You have a few questions that need to be addressed.
Why are they saying she needs memory care!
Although capable of feeding herself, is she? My dad was capable, however, his fridge was filled with green meats, brown lettuce etc. His cereal boxes were empty and or expired.
Are they finding her wearing rhe same clothes a few days in a row?
Since family has not been to see her things could have changed dramatically in the past 5 months.
There are good and bad days, and when you call to talk to her she may be on a good day.
Have the center explain their reasons. speak with an elder care attorney and her doctors that see her regularly.

BEST wishes
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Worried, The only state I’m aware of that uses the form is NC Medicaid. We transferred a patient to NC and the form was required. The family took the resident to a private physician for evaluation. I know the state I live in and the adjoining state do not require the form.

Our facility has our own staff doctors and they along with other members of professional staff make the decision. If the patient/client involved still maintains an outside physician, they are not involved in this type of decision at the facility.

And as previously state, the family is free to give notice and use another facility. No one is chained to our facility.
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AlvaDeer Oct 2020
Bridger, that is an Assisted Living you are speaking of, with a staff of doctors? I have honestly never heard of that. My brother's facility had two physician and their physician's assistants who would attend people at his Assisted Living if they chose to sign on with them, but they were not a part of the facility itself, and made no decisions about the facility care whatsoever. There were merely MDs taking care of individual patients. Other than rehabs, SNFs and some nursing homes, and so on I have never heard of an Assisted Living with a staff of doctors and nurses.
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Alva, We are a private pay facility - assisted and a skilled nursing unit. We have two staff physicians who rotate shifts. We are in a rural area with hospitals a fairly far drive away. My dad is a doctor and is part owner. My husband is also a doctor and part owner. My father is 100% retired. My husband is also retired but can fill in in a pinch. The two doctors we have are rural health doctors. They work and receive credit on their med school loans. They can get credit on their loans for 2-3 years. Because of the loan credits, it holds down salary.
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