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This seems an effective place to gain information and support. My spouse is 76, a 3x cancer survivor (cecal to prostate metastasizing into spine) that began in 1999. Sticking to one issue at a time, here goes: one month ago he agreed to wear Depends 100 percent of the time, a very necessary step, and a big one for all of us. That went smoothly.


The next issue regards Depends, in that he refuses to change them often enough. Outside of the odor, there is naturally the damage done to the skin. For instance, he put on a fresh pair Dec. 13 and today, the 16th, still has them on. They leak by this stage, onto his pants and the couch and the bed.


I've asked him tonight if he needs help changing and like a 2 year old, the answer is 'no.'

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Updage 1 year, 6 months in: Religious services haven't occurred since mid-March, so there's no problem there with complaints from them about odor, etc. In any case, that place hasn't needed to text me with problems for some months now.

The regimen of changing of Depends remains the same because Spouse doesn't change them often enough and I resort to candles, opening windows and spraying oil of eucalyptus on myself to sniff when dining with him.

On Sunday, the 26th of April, the occasional problem of overwhelming the Depends occurred again. Spouse lay down after a meal and could not make it into the bathroom in time without soiling the pants. It seems he sleeps so heavily that he doesn't notice everything is starting and then he cannot move fast enough to avoid a mess.

What made this worse is that Youngest was visiting so pleasantly and then had to witness this. Spouse became agitated and shouted at the poor young man who held it together very well. He offered to help me and eventually all was cleared up. Before Youngest left for home, Spouse was speaking normally and they had a pleasant chat.

Something different since stay in place began is that Spouse changes Depends when I ask him to, although not the pants. The pants still stink, but not as much as they do with the Depends inside them.
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Update 1.28 years in: I need a plateau. Schedule currently: Spouse changes before Thursday class; doesn't change Friday *dinnertime possible stank*; changes Saturday morning; doesn't change Sunday unless bowel accident *almost sure dinnertime stank*; Monday iffy whether changes ... if not, *for sure dinnertime stank*; Tuesday changes; Wednesday probably not changes *dinnertime possible stank*; Thursday weekly routine begins again. Dealing with the situation by: Lighting incense at dinnertime if stank; using Chux on dining table seat a most helpful thing eliminating 11 pm laundering of cushion; daily reminding causing a change 50 percent of the time; Spouse uses carry along cushion at place of worship, which has not informed me of a problem for 2 weeks. If bowel accident occurs, Depends changed right away.

This is the plateau. VA delivered 5 more boxes of Depends yesterday, which makes about 1,000 in the garage.

Helpful advice from this site is greatly appreciated, thanks to all who replied. :) A happy holiday weekend to those in the US.
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Update 1 year, 2.1 months in: Yesterday, Office Lady texted "in general, he is better" and then "last Main Worship Day he had a #2 accident after the luncheon (and so it was not in the sanctuary). We need to work together to make sure this doesn't happen again. Thanks for your understanding." I texted the news would be passed along. Generally, he stays for 1-2 hours talking after the meal, which means that the gastrocolic response activates and he needs a toilet.

Last night at dinner, Spouse stank after not changing since Thursday a.m. I lit incense in order to be able to dine with him and related the text. "Don't these people have anything better to do?" was his angry response. He remembered about the incident, claimed there was no mess on either the chair seat or his special cushion (there was urine on the pants but not #2), and it's up in the air if Office Lady just smelled him (his wet farts or simply urine in the Depends, which is bad enough in itself). The weekend is upon us again and we shall see what transpires.
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Update 1 year, 2 months in: Friday Spouse lay down for an afternoon nap and as sometimes happens, couldn't get onto the toilet in time upon awakening. Poop onto the toilet, floor, clothing, etc., and after he changed into fresh Depends and clothing, did not change again until Sunday after dinner. I reminded Friday night and Saturday morning to change and he said "I don't need to." Sunday suppertime, the stank was so bad I lit a sandalwood incense and sat next to it. For a while, it seemed place of worship's telephone call and threat of being banned with my reminders worked to jog the memory into changing more often. Before their Thursday night class, Spouse both bathed and changed Depends.

At the conclusion of Sunday dinner, he rose swiftly from the table to use the bathroom; the Chux on the dining chairseat showed and absorbed the Depends overflow. This gave insight to the sequence of flow happening quickly, being noticed and acted upon, but too late to stop accidents. Between the diuretics and the diarrhea, he doesn't have an easy life.
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Pronker, has another man from church talked to your husband about the situation with leaking, odor and ruining furniture?

I am gobsmacked that a female would call you and no one would talk directly to him. Maybe, just maybe an elder could have a heart to heart about the importance of setting a good example for the youngsters and get through to him that it really is difficult to be around him.

My dad wouldn't brush his teeth and it was putrid. You couldn't even be in a car with the windows rolled up. No one would tell him, but they would move away and make short work of talking to him. He thought I was lying about it. Once he finally caved to my constant pressure to brush and get his teeth dealt with he actually saw how much more willing people were to have conversations with him, it was impacting his social life terribly. He finally realized that he was lonely and it was all about something that he had control over.

I would call that woman and tell her to get some elders on board to help him understand that his choices are negatively impacting everyone around him. Make them be the bad guys if they are going to boot him over this.

I would saturate the car seat with white vinegar and let it dry. That will kill the enzymes that cause the odor and disinfect the fabric. I would get a washable chux and keep that on the seat and cover that with a disposable. Keeping a box of them in car. The VA will provide those with the disposable underwear, just ask the nurse.

I hope you find something that gets him to take better care of himself. You are a trooper! HUGS!!
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pronker Jan 2020
Thanks for the vinegar tip and other thoughts. As of today, the situation improved to the point of Office Lady texting me that "it's better" and so things appear to have died down. I'm hoping their comment of "we'll charge $500 for the chairs" is simply a comment and doesn't result in a bill. It's been good to see that Spouse is actually valued at the place despite the troubles. I'm glad your dad realized his state could be fixed to where others enjoyed his company!
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It seems to me that if DH is unwilling to change his soiled undergarments, then he also understands and agrees that he is unwelcome in social situations, private homes or public places of any kind. It's common sense, really. If I were holding church meetings in my home and a person like your DH was attending, I'd ask that he not return as well. And if he did, after being asked not to, I'd call the police to have them ask him to leave and to please not return. It would be nothing personal.......just a preference to have my wishes obeyed inside of my own home, and my property not damaged, and the people I have invited to my home respected and not feel threatened by his behavior in any way, or offended by odors, etc.

It's a good thing for human beings to make accommodations for other human beings in need or with disabilities. Within reason. It is not a good thing to make accommodations for people who are capable of cleanliness but who choose to keep themselves unclean and demand that others accept it. That is unreasonable, in my opinion.

So sorry that you are going through this Pronker. If it were me, I would explain all of this to my DH and then put my foot down and refuse to take him out unless he abides by the rules society demands. Wishing you good luck moving forward.
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pronker Jan 2020
Thanks for the swift reply - as of today, the situation improved to the point of Office Lady texting me that "it's better" and so things appear to have died down. I'm hoping their comment of "we'll charge $500 for the chairs" is simply a comment and doesn't result in a bill. It's been good to see that Spouse is actually valued at the place despite the troubles. I agree that this crisis spurred better behavior and with constant reminders, he'll continue to change directly before attending, use the cushion, and others can enjoy his company rather than endure it.
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Cwillie you don’t sound like a b****, you sound like the voice of reason.

Pronker, your husband deserves compassion and empathy, that is a given. And so do you because you are the spouse left to deal with all of this. At the end if the day, your husband doesn’t have the right to go in to a private home or a business and repeatedly cause property damage at someone else’s expense. These meetings he attends are in a private home not a church. If this was a 1 time thing, I think we would all agree that these things happen and the church should replace the chair and call it a day. But this has happened 10 times in 6 months. Are you going to pay the $500 to replace the chairs?
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pronker Jan 2020
Thanks for the kind thoughts - as of today, the situation improved to the point of Office Lady texting me that "it's better" and so things appear to have died down. I'm hoping their comment of "we'll charge $500 for the chairs" is simply a comment and doesn't result in a bill. It's been good to see that Spouse is actually valued at the place despite the troubles.

I may have given the wrong impression about the private home, because it was built in a suburban development as one, but the congregation bought the home and it's used as a place of worship and also for when travelers of the same denomination need a place to stay. Worship Leader lives just across the street with his family.
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Pronker, how did it go at last nights gathering? Was he allowed to attend? Was he clean and dry for them?
Just curious if he drives himself to the services? Could you attend the services with him to possibly intervene and help him to the the restroom there?
Im sure you’ve tried many tactics...but one old saying from my Gran comes to mind: “Cleanliness is next to Godliness.”
I can understand you’re in tough spot. You’re up against a man who is considerably larger than you, who by your own words can be intimidating. You can’t hold him down and change him. Perhaps you even fear him. You try to excuse, convince and cajole, but he can’t understand that he’s offensive, and won’t comply with you. As cwillie has said what you put up with, other people shouldn’t have to. If he won’t do it just out of love/respect for you, then maybe the stakes aren’t high enough for him. I would not let him attend any more church services, or go anywhere other than a doctors office. Tell him “Cleanliness is next to Godliness” and they will not let you in unless you’re clean. So he pouts, or is in a funk. Whatever. Until he has a psych evaluation, it’s really not fair to him to knowingly put him in humiliating situations.
Thers an elderly lady that volunteers at the same nonprofit I do. She has a terrible odor, and I’ve seen the top of depends peeking out at her waistband. Most of the younger volunteers don’t know what the smell is, but I sure do. They just know it’s bad and avoid her and won’t work with her. I dread showing up on a day she’s there and I can’t sit in any chairs she’s used. These “kids” aren’t as benevolent as your “church people”. Is that how you want people to feel about him? Dreading he’ll be there? Raise the stakes. If he won’t do it for you, maybe he will for God.
Im sorry if I’m coming across as harsh. I am very sensitive to odors and your situation would absolutely kill me, so it make my head reel. You sound like a loving & caring wife and I am so sorry he’s putting you through this.
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pronker Jan 2020
Thanks for your thoughts and I hope the elderly lady receives a wakeup call from some source or other, because she's a volunteer and gives freely of her time for a worthy cause. The stink is just as bad whatever sort of person she is.

As of today, the situation improved to the point of Office Lady texting me that "it's better" and so things appear to have died down. I'm hoping their comment of "we'll charge $500 for the chairs" is simply a comment and doesn't result in a bill. It's been good to see that Spouse is actually valued at the place despite the troubles.

Thursday night Spouse was extra careful to change Depends directly prior to the class and nothing was said to him there, so the best case scenario came to pass. On the day I told him of the phone call, I plucked the soiled Chux he'd sat on earlier and held it under his nose to say "this is what you smell like, do you smell that?" and he said no.
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That is a difficult one. Does gentle encouragement help? Ask if he feels uncomfortable and discuss with him the very real concerns of poor skin integrity, rash or Bacterial urinary infections. Might also try an extra adult liner pas (made for male and female) which are easy to dispose of. Good luck.
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pronker Jan 2020
I told him of his PCP's nurse speaking privately to me about changing more often and he got defensive, saying "I've never heard of skin problems, I don't have any," and when I held the soiled Chux under his nose he said he didn't smell anything. That might be so - my mom lost her sense of smell at about 61 and couldn't smell food, so she lost a great deal of weight at that time due to loss of appetite. Thanks for wishing good luck; this has been one of the most trying experiences of my life.
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I'm going to come across as a 3itch but I side with the church on this. From everything you've said previously this isn't really a result of an inability to hold his urine during a meeting, it is because he refuses to change an already soaked product, sometimes for days on end. He can't comprehend that it is courteous to go to these meetings washed and dry and instead proposes to sit on a cushion, and you feel this is okay? You have bent over backwards to accommodate your husband's unwillingness to change and the consequent soiling (and no doubt odour) but what you are willing to put up with in your own home doesn't and shouldn't have to extend out into the world.
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pronker Jan 2020
Thanks for the quick reply. The place of worship has been accommodating for some months now and they've reached the end. It's understandable because they are also a business in addition to a place of worship, and the expense of $50 chairs continuing to be the cost of him attending is a lot.

Spouse's behavior has changed re the Depends changing, so let's hope there's no backsliding. As of today, the situation improved to the point of Office Lady texting me that "it's better" and so things appear to have died down. I'm hoping their comment of "we'll charge $500 for the chairs" is simply a comment and doesn't result in a bill. It's been good to see that Spouse is actually valued at the place despite the troubles.

I do believe that the sense of needing to go to the bathroom as quickly as possible no matter what activity he's involved in he's put aside, either through overconfidence in Depends holding a full stream or deadening of the sensory nerves, which is something his doctors warned of after his 3rd bout of chemo/rad.
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I read the entire post.

You poor lady! I feel bad for forcing my immaculately clean hubby into the shower after he'd been in bed for 2 days with a cold. Told him he and his room smelled like a dead raccoon. Yes, I was kidding, but I have super sensitive nose and I find, in small places, the smell of 'old' urine just gags me to no end. Hubby has just been coughing, he in no way was 'stinky'.

My mother has an internal catheter and it works just 'OK'. She relies on it too much and doesn't change it often enough, resulting in the same exact thing you have going on. Her apartment just stinks sooooo bad. She just puts up another 'room deodorizer' spray thing which just adds to the layers of smells. She has gotten to the point that she wears a depends plus a couple of pads so she doesn't have to actually 'go to the bathroom' but once a day. And now she's gotten to where if she 'poops' her pants, she just lives with it. Luckily she eats next to nothing, so when she does have bowel incontinence, it could be worse. She's totally nose-blind and once I've taken her somewhere in my car, I have to clean the seat with the carpet cleaner. Her recliner (luckily the only chair she has to sit in) has been saturated so many times with 'overflow'---so your story kind of resonated with me. When she has accidents, she just mops up best she can and adds another layer of blankets to the recliner. Won't let us clean it b/c then she has nowhere to sit. :(

She lives with YB and he said yesterday that she is down to one shower every 2 weeks. So she's only emptying and using a clean cath bag every 2 weeks. Hence, the incredible odor. He was frustrated, as you are...and finally said he told he wouldn't take her anywhere in his new car unless she was clean from the skin out. New depends everyday. Empty the cath bag before it explodes. She got pretty mad, but he's her only chauffeur, so she has to bathe more frequently, if she wants to go anywhere.

Problem with those depends, just like diapers for babies, they DON'T FEEL WET. I did cloth diapers for my kiddoes and all 5 of them were 100% potty trained by 24 months--the feel of a heavy wet cloth diaper was awful. My gkids will wear a disposable for hours and as it sags to the ground and you wrestle it off of them you can feel that the things hold like 6 cups of fluid! & They're not uncomfortable!

It sounds like this place of worship is being very unkind about the chairs. No DOUBT they can be cleaned, and if there are children in this congregation, I cannot fathom that THEY haven't wet or soiled a chair in the act of just being a kid. I'd offer to pay for them to be cleaned, but not replaced. What kind of 'religion' is this? Not very, uh, loving, from my POV. Yes, your hubby needs to be clean and not stink up a whole room, but sounds like the leaders could be a little more forgiving. Judgy people can dishonor a place of worship too. Just doesn't smell.

Sadly, until your HUBBY cares, you are fighting one uphill battle. But, hey, you have the VA sending you depends right and left, that's good, right? You can't usually get them to do anything.

I truly do feel for you. It's a real problem and one that you'd think wouldn't have to get so bad before a person felt uncomfortable and wanted to be cleaned.
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pronker Jan 2020
I wish you the best, and particularly YB, in dealing with this problem - I guess the prospect of changing clothes yet again involves energy that is hard to come by in the last stages of life. The internal catheter sounds hideous to deal with for her and everybody around her, and yeah, Depends are such wonders and so are disposable kiddie diapers! I had mine in cloth diapers for 2 days before giving up.

The congregation just reached its limit about the situation, and we shall see if the $500 comment is just a threat or if it results in a bill. As for kids, they are so numerous that they use other rooms in the home (which was built as a private home in the suburbs but the congregation bought as a place of worship and also where travelers may stay while Worship Leader lives across the street). The issue is that Spouse sits in the sanctuary, which is a holy place and not to be defiled. The kids undoubtedly have messed on a chair or on the floor in other rooms throughout the years and no issue was made of this, AFAIK.

Yes, the VA supplied about 800 Depends and PCP's nurse is very helpful and understanding about ordering and listening to my problems. Spouse is stoutly in denial that the problem is that bad, still, and I don't know how he manages to sit for long spells at a time in a soggy Depends. I remind him every day to change and have asked if I can help with the answer of 'no.'
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Update from Sunday's phone call from place of worship: Office Lady there expressly asked that I tell Spouse not to come to Thursday class any longer due to his incontinence and Depends not holding all of it in. She suggested online courses. He decided to go anyway and plans to bring a cushion that I made for him in case he leaks. (Another elderly man, since deceased, always brought a cushion so Spouse sees precedent.) Office Lady exchanged phone #'s with me and requested that I text when he is coming and if he is clean or not. I regret giving her my cell # and saying she could text back and forth. I am on guard with her.

Their side is that the $50 chairs continuing to be ruined (because they will not clean them but declare them soiled and "dishonoring the house of prayer" and thus require replacement) is unfair to them because Office Lady says "he's had plenty of chances to change since November 2019 at her first phone call and people don't want to come anymore because of him".

His side is that he wishes to attend any activity, loves the place despite all because he's attended 20 years, and resents being singled out in spite of his unsocial odor and occasional behavior (he can get aggressive with his walker involving anybody in his way when he needs to get someplace, such as the bathroom or simply moving through the crowd. He never hits anybody but looks very intense and that can intimidate.)

My side is that I want him to go there as much as he can.

The setting is a private home that is regularly crowded with wall to wall people on the main worship day, a line for getting food from the buffet tables on this day's free lunch, and hours long religious services and classes that he loves. I've been to them numerous times throughout twenty years and find the place claustrophobic, although others find them "family like" and "bustling in a good way." I can see both points of view. There are many children around for him to tell stories to and he enjoys singing. He can be charming and offers interesting stories.

Best case scenario is that Worship Leader allows him to enter for the class tonight and accepts his cushion for both class and Main Worship Day. Acceptable case scenario is that he is rejected for Thursdays and allowed to come on Main Worship Day. Less acceptable case scenario is that Worship Leader insists that he curtail his stays on Main Worship Day to perhaps 2 hours. Absolute worst case is that they call the cops on him because he was asked not to come, with the corollary of his arrest.
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There seems to be some dementia as well. When my mother went through this phase she wasn't changing them (or rather didn't want them changed) due to the pain. In her brain she didn't understand that bowels eat through the skin and is worse than a burn. I am not sure where the skin is irritated but there is a liquid bandage called Cavilon. Once you get the sores and skin taken care of maybe he won't be as obstiant. This truly helped with my mother and then I had to get different designs and try to find a way to make it fun. My prayers are with you and your family 🙏
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pronker Jan 2020
Thanks for the reply and graceful prayers - I'm glad your mother had a positive outcome and that you figured out the right treatment. The dementia part is particularly difficult because sometimes Spouse boils over at the mention of the issue and other times he is silent. The refusal to change when I reminded him is just tough to deal with because he's not a 3 year old that I can wrestle with. I guess the next step is to contact Behavioral Psychiatrist to ask for options. :/
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So sorry you are having to deal with this. I have no suggestions, I hope somebody else can help.
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pronker Jan 2020
Thanks for the support - not fifteen minutes ago, the place of worship called again with another complaint. He's ruined 10 chairs at $50 each during the past six months. Mentioning this to him is bound to make a difference unless he spirals into a depression over it. Thus far, they have banned him from Thurs. night class and charged the $500 for the chairs.
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Update after 1 year, 2 months: The VA clinic visit 011020 featured a quick word to me from PCP's nurse, helpful as always. She asked me privately how the Depends sitch was and I said no better. I ought to have said 'it /is/ better' because generally the reminder works to obtain a change of undergarment. She said that the Behavioral Psychiatrist spoke with him regarding the changes. I said he didn't tell me about that, and Nurse suggested a telephone conference with BP with both Spouse and I on the line.

Spouse changed 011020 and now, 011220, has not changed even though I reminded him last night. This morning at breakfast I told him that they stink overwhelmingly and to please change. We shall see if he complies. Rather than an outright 'no' his response was silence, so there's that.

The Chux work well to protect the dining room chair and now the driver's seat in the car needs treatment. I drove Spouse to the 011020 VA appointment, a 34 mile round trip, and my clothing was affected because he had driven the car last. I'm open to suggestions as to protecting the car seat.
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Update: I am placing Chux over the dining chair fabric seat because a new issue came up this past week. Spouse changes the Depends every other day, which is a large improvement over every 2-3 days, but only if I remind him. Thus far no refusal to change, as there have been a few times in the past.

The beige color seat shows stains readily, but the issue arises now: I believe Spouse is not either making it to the bathroom in time, or thinks the Depends will absorb /every little bit of fluid/, so that he doesn't think it imperative to walk as fast as he can to the toilet, shuck down the suspendered pants, and go. Therefore the Depends flood after even one day, because they were fresh this morning and just now at dinner they leaked over the seat cover.

If he's thinking that the situation has improved since he now changes them every other day and they'll handle the extra load, it's a mistake.

Another thing that may be occurring is that the water pills are affecting him more, although to my knowledge the dr. hasn't changed his medications in any way.

One more issue may be that Spouse isn't wearing the Depends correctly. The blue line goes in back, but perhaps he's not seeing it clearly enough or another reason prevents the thing from positioning in the right area. It's discouraging to make the new cover and have this issue still ongoing.
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Update after 1 year: I fielded a phone call on 111519 from the place of worship when Spouse stank so horribly that the teacher whose class he attends weekly had difficulty concentrating to teach through it all. The upshot is that Spouse 1. needs to wear clean and unripped clothing and 2. change the Depends more often so that the stank doesn't have a chance to build after 2 days' not changing. The lady calling kept repeating how difficult this is to talk about, well yeah, no kidding! She emphasized how much difference there is when he /is/ clean and changed, so is aware that the problem is not 100 percent of the time.

The ultimatum is that the teacher, who also leads the congregation, says he is not to attend the class or the service in a foul state, but that if he can be clean he can attend both. If he only has the energy to clean up for one thing weekly, then attending the services get priority. I do hope that the teacher, who relays information through the lady, does not instigate a blowup with Spouse because Spouse adores attending. The recent hiatus of the 3rd weekly activity there upset him a little.

Spouse got defensive when I told him about the call and it so happened that he had just changed into clean pants and Depends that very morning. The phone call did make a difference and we'll see if it's long lasting. The wool pants to the suit are no longer repairable because they've been washed so many times that they are disintegrating. My sewing repairs do not take into the material. Today is the task of finding a pair of pants that match the jacket well enough to make a presentable suit.
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Update after 11.7 months: Yesterday the VA sent 200 more Depends to total 800 in the garage.
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Update after 11.5 months: Yesterday VA sent 200 more Depends.
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First, here's a hug. There is a catheter-like collecting tube that just fits over the tip of the penis like a little condom hat. (It does not penetrate the penis.) There are urine bags to collect the urine from the condom/cap tube. A collecting bag straps to the leg so the bag would need emptied a couple of times a day (500 ml) but he wouldn't be wet, it wouldn't show, and he could wear undershorts instead of a diaper. My husband is going on two years with a regular catheter because he has prostrate trouble so the little cap can't work for him. Perhaps if the husband tries the "cap" and is given a choice, and has to pay for them, he might just prefer to change his pants because he doesn't know just how lucky he is! A nurse changes my husband's Foley Bag (cath tube and bag) every six weeks, so you don't need a huge supply of bags, just the condom catheters. (They empty from a tube on the bottom.)
Amazon carries the kits, which run about $30/month, less than I spend on quality diapers.
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pronker Oct 2019
Thanks for the helpful information, Mrs. Hoover. Today was a VA visit with the PCP and for the first time, Spouse spoke with a psychiatrist whom the PCP referred who, I hope, will shed some insight on why the issue remains after nearly 1 year.

Best of luck on your husband's catheter; from a hospitalization some years ago, Spouse fought when a catheter was inserted and cut the slit a little, so if there's an option of a catheter not needing insertion, I'm sure he'd be all for it.

The VA provides 100 percent med coverage, and also all Depends (not their name but since Spouse recognizes what they are by that name that's what I call them to him) and about 400 arrived some time ago. The issue is that Spouse won't change them often enough, when I only foresaw that it would be a struggle to get him to wear them. /That/ part went well, at least.
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Update after 11 months: Spouse's routine remains unchanged varying from 3-4x weekly switching out the Depends and last night the pants and dining room chair seat pad again got soaked. Today was a VA clinic visit, so I left a note not for the PCP but for his nurse, who called me in for a consult about 5 minutes after I left the note at the front desk. I discussed the problem with her and she said that she would put in for a psychiatrist visit via the PCP.
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Update after 10 months: Spouse varies between changing Depends 3x or even 2x weekly with changing 4x weekly. He seems on occasion to realize he needs to move swiftly to the toilet and that means the Depends have a chance to do what they're engineered for, catching leaks but not a full flood. Now and then, the BM urge overwhelms and the Depends really get a workout and if the Depends are already at nearly full capacity with urine, then the extra mess gets onto the pants, floor, socks, etc. That does not happen often.

The suspenders work better than the belt did.

I spoke with VA Prosthetics Nurse Wednesday directly rather than leaving the sixth note for the PCP to call or schedule an appointment; although the call was about getting grab bars for the bathrooms, she listened and noted that the concern about proper toileting was valid and that the PCP would get the note via his records. It helps that Nurse spent some time with Spouse about a mobility problem last month.
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Update with a positive step: Spouse was having pants trouble, in that he couldn't, on numerous occasions, : 1. undo the belt and zipper, 2. slide pants down, 3. position over the toilet quickly enough to avoid bowel accidents on the toilet seat and in pants, etc., due to arthritis and cancer metastasizing to the spine. Yesterday, he acknowledged the problem and bought stretchy suspenders, which allow swift sliding off the shoulders and quicker positioning. This adds a step in caregiving due to my fastening the suspenders for him in mornings; we shall see if he can learn how and where the fasteners need to go.

His culture doesn't include anything like lavalavas, although that is an interesting concept.
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Sweetstuff Aug 2019
That’s great Pronker. Any positive step is just great. I’m happy for both of you. Maybe the commmunication will improve even more and more positives will follow. Best of luck.
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Hi Pronker, I have a suggestion. Nothing to loose I guess. Instead of asking him to change or telling him he is odorous, how about something like this...... “What pants would you like to wear today?” and hold up two pairs to select from. Or “would you prefer to change into these clothes before or after breakfast?” This method worked with my Mom and her meds. When I presented it as “would you like to take your pills now or after coffee” it gave her some control back. In a world where they are losing so much control, maybe this will help. Nothing to loose. Good luck.
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pronker Aug 2019
I'm glad the tactic worked with your mom, and now and again, giving choice to Spouse works.
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Hi Pronker. What is your husband doing regarding bowel movements? Is he pulling down wet depends to go and then pulling them back up? My thought is if he is pulling them down for a bm maybe you should try the depends with tabs instead so he could not simply pull up again. I’m sorry, this is terrible. Try leaving a change of pants in bathroom at all times as well. Maybe it just takes too much effort or energy that he doesn’t have? What if you pre lined his pants with a new depends? Or placed a pad inside depends? Maybe he would be willing to pull out the wet pad? Sorry if these things have already been tried. I didn’t read all responses. Good luck.
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pronker Aug 2019
A 1999 operation removed 1/3 of the colon so BMs are loose, although he does take meds for that. Occasionally he "wet farts" so there's that, but it's not an everyday thing. He changes when one is especially bad. At 77 years old come Wednesday, all things considered, he's doing not too shabby. It's been difficult to deal with his condition for 20 years now for both me and him.

The change of pants in the bathroom shared with tenants could be arranged and it's a good idea, thanks. I think the "too much effort" applies ATM, coupled with the now rock-solid routine of changing only 3x weekly, occasionally 4. The "too much effort" is mental effort as I see it, because of the agitation when I've explained about the dr.s statement of the necessity of changing (at the very least) 1x daily. He's got a good deal of strength left to him. Thanks for replying and best of luck to you, too.
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You’re welcome. I hope you can find professional help for your hubby before it’s too late and he has to be hospitalized with an infection. Please continue posting and updating us on his progress and what’s being done.
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@Ahmijoy, Thanks for your reply.
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Nine months update: The Depends were changed Sunday and today, Wednesday, leaked all over the front of the pants when Spouse came to dinner. I reeled and gasped and he asked what the matter was; the matter was that the stench made me choke and the pants soaked in a 2 foot square area just got to me. I said "the pants are soaked" and he said "oh, it's not so bad." I pushed by saying "the doctor says they need changing at least once daily" and he said "I can't help it, all of a sudden it's just whoosh." I said that I think you'd rather hear this from me than from anybody else that the smell is sickening, he said okay you've made your point and changed the subject.

It was as bad as it gets. He ate dinner like that and I had to move from the table after a few bites, whereupon I finished my dinner elsewhere. The chair pad is now in the dryer to be ready for breakfast. A VA appointment is tomorrow so I shall leave another note for the doctor. I am wondering if the nurse gives the notes to him, because she is the one who sent the 400 Depends plus liners.

Right now it seems hopeless. I think that since the Depends get changed on Friday before the weekend, Spouse knows the fellow worshippers would complain to me again if the stank got bad, as they did before. He's geared to being fairly decent for the weekend and lets the weekdays slide, uncaring if he's wet or smelly in my presence. It's pretty discouraging.

EAD: Correction, the washer just broke down and did not drain, so the pad hangs on the line outside to dry overnight. It seems to be the timer, which whirs at varying speeds without pumping so it's looking like a new washer, urgh. If it's the pump, that's even worse than the timer, but either one is a killer. :(
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Ahmijoy Aug 2019
Pronker, I no longer know what to say or how to advise to “fix” this. I think the solution is beyond us here on this forum. Your husband needs an evaluation to see where he’s at cognitively. He has mental issues. A professional of some sort, perhaps a therapist or even psychiatrist needs to get to the bottom of what’s going on with him and why he’s doing this. This is not all physical with him. It’s mental.

You need to find someway to speak with the doctor in person. Notes to the nurse obviously are not working. You will need to be very proactive with the medical staff who takes care of him. You cannot deal with him; you will need to deal with them. Do not accept any brush offs or “I’ll have the doctor call you.” This behavior will continue until and unless you get him professional help.
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Update: Today is Saturday and the bin held two Depends from Thursday to now. Let's hope the upswing continues.
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Update: Spouse state of stained pants was worse than ever before. The Depends were changed Sunday and last night, Tuesday evening, at dinnertime the pants showed stains past the knees and all over the seat. I stated: "The Depends smell bad and the pants are soaked. I can smell the odor from 10 feet away. I believe you would rather have this come from me than a friend (at the place of worship.)"

He stated: "I know." He was calm, and other times he's become agitated at this subject.

The pants and Depends got changed last night. It's concerning that he knew the problem and didn't fix it, but thought it was okay to be around others like that. Originally, it seemed that since the body fluid is body temp, the leakage wasn't noticed.
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Unitetogether Jul 2019
Sounds like you have the same problem like me with my husband...
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