94 year old with dementia still driving. What to do?

Before closing the window with the search results, which lists an overview of all states' laws and indicates last updates Dec 3 2019, but these could be outdated or wrong, I skimmed through the list.

(https://www.dementiacarecentral.com/caregiverinfo/driving-problems/)

Most have very similar wording, some (very few) are MUCH better about tackling this situation, but I see that MA (where mom was living at the time) says:
"Massachusetts asks drivers to self-report to the Registry of Motor Vehicles if diagnosed with dementia, for a reevaluation."

What idiot came up with THAT idea??? Clearly not someone who has ever dealt with dementia!!! I don't think there are many people, if any, who have been dxed with dementia who would EVER do this!! In their minds, they are just fine! Self-perception regresses, so they think they are as they were years ago. Denial is not just the name of a river. Some, when told by family or doctors that they should not be driving, living alone, or whatever, will maintain they are fine and that you and/or the docs don't know what they are talking about!

Hopefully all states will get a clue and make this process simpler for doctors and family/friends to get unsafe dementia drivers off the roads!

Take his keys and if he has a fit, oh well. If something happens while he is driving and you (your family) knows he isn't fit to drive who is responsible. Who has the POA? Be responsible and take the keys.

Enablers can sometimes blind everyone to what is going on. When it came time for mom to renew her license, my YB had not told me about an expensive accident she had (no one hurt, just some serious $) Because she has trouble with the eye machines, she got a note from her eye doctor and I took her to the DMV. Not too long after that, she got into another accident - again, I helped out by getting it from where it was towed to the place she had it repaired before. This is how I learned about the previous accident, when he told me that he had already replaced the "nose" before (front end, ~6k ea time.) She had said she "brushed" the telephone pole. Once it was moved, we went to check it out and make arrangements... Oh my! If that is brushing the pole, I would hate to see what hitting it full tilt would be!

Thankfully no one was hurt. IF I had been aware of the first accident, I might not have enabled her to renew her license. It would have been simple enough - even she was worried the cops would "pull" her license after the recent accident (not likely - perhaps, but usually it isn't enough.)

About this time she was not going far anymore and not driving at night, thankfully. It was mainly local stores, no more than a mile or so. The next indication was the missing plastic on the driver side mirror. Could have been anyone who did this, not just mom, but she was oblivious - "It was there the last time I drove it!" Around the same time we found the inspection sticker expired (many months.) As someone else said, driving is a privilege, not a right. When one no longer can maintain a car in good stead, understand the rules of the road and has no clue how their car was damaged, it is time to reassess!

So, the next, big indication was a call to say she needed help with a flat tire. I brought my tire pump down, and just stood with wonderment at what she had done - the tire was split from the rim to the ground and the metal trim around the wheel well was bent up and away... No idea if she drove it with a flat or hit something, but the rim was also damaged and the rear tire needed replacement too. There were also nice white stripes on both front fenders from scraping against the garage door trim.

I had AAA put the spare on and had it brought to my mechanic to get fixed. Then had chat with YB saying we need to take this away. I do understand that many will say this is their property and we have no business taking it, BUT out of concern for her and anyone she might injure or kill, I would take the chance that she might call someone to intervene!!

YB did all the talking and took the key. Her face was like a 5 yr old who was caught in the cookie jar. I only stood behind him, and on the way out suggested disabling it as I was sure she had another key (he pulled the battery cable.) Next day, who gets the nasty call/message about her key? Me of course. When I returned her call I could honestly say I never touched her key. She was so nasty to me that when she asked who did, I just replied 'You're so smart, YOU figure it out." and hung up. Day 2, an even nastier call demanding that I get down there RIGHT NOW and fix whatever I did to her car. Found the spare, she did! Again I could honestly say I never touched the car (I suggested the "fix", but never touched it!) So she asks what's wrong with it. Now I can say I'm not a mechanic, I don't know what's wrong with it (fib, but necessary.)

At some point we removed it from where she was living and never returned it. She whined. She moaned. She complained. She maintained that she "didn't go far", to which I replied "I don't care if you go 2 feet, if you hit someone you will lose EVERYTHING." Periodically she continued the whining, but eventually that morphed into her saying "The worse decision I ever made was to give up my wheels.", like it was HER idea! Eventually even that went away.

Out of sight, out of mind (and out of access!)

A quick lookup had minimal info about various state rules. For Kentucky, they had this:

"Kentucky has no laws against driving with dementia specifically but obviously has laws about medical conditions which impact a person’s ability to drive safely. If the Kentucky Medical Review Board receives an unsafe driver report, they will investigate and require documents from a doctor vouching for ability to drive."

You have several gates to this issue:
1) those who enable
2) those who refuse to take action
3) no mention of POAs, but not likely to help in this instance

First and foremost, the car needs to be disabled/removed while working on getting him off the road legally. Clearly relying on this cousin to do the RIGHT thing isn't going to work. Having a really dumb deputy sheriff gums up the works (does your Barney Fife have bullets for his gun????)

If at all possible, try the "borrowing" option and then find a way to disable it. Simple methods would be disconnecting the battery, but he or some unsuspecting friend, neighbor or mechanic would reconnect it, so leave a LARGE blatant note under the hood, if the car remains at the home. It would be great if you could disable it, and plan an "outing" with him driving - then call a tow truck when it won't start and get it out of the yard (you can explain the issue to the driver, out of earshot of dad.) Keep deferring the fix to keep it away, or even better quote some ridiculous amount of money/work that needs to be done. Another option is to have a kill switch installed, someplace where he won't find it. Having this requires extra steps to start the vehicle, which may thwart his attempts to drive, but still allow others to drive him places (so long as he doesn't get to see the steps needed to start it!)

Meanwhile, try to get a copy of the doctor's letter to the DMV. Request he do this again, only specifying how impaired he is medically and stipulating that dad MUST have a driving test, not just an eye test. Taking the license and/or insurance will NOT be enough. Many will continue to drive without it - even convicted drunk drivers who have had their licenses revoked continue to drive and there is no dementia involved! In the meantime, the car MUST be moved to a place where he won't have access to it or disabled in a way he can't fix/get fixed.

Also send certified letters to those "enablers" indicating that if they continue to do this, they could, in effect, be held responsible for your dad injuring or killing himself or someone else. Perhaps enlist the help of an attorney (EC?) to facilitate this. A letter from an attorney might be more useful.

Even with any kind of POA, which it doesn't sound like anyone has, legally the person still has "rights". In some respect, I understand this, but when it comes down to safety for them or others, I really think this is stupid. POA allows you to sign for the person who isn't capable and make some decisions that they cannot reasonably make, but it doesn't allow for taking cars away or making them move.

In your case, it may require seeking legal advice from EC atty about requesting guardianship. The courts will review medical documentation and if needed hire atty for dad and medical experts to make the decisions. Sometimes it can be partial guardianship. This won't be easy or cheap and could take some time, so the first thing is still to find a way to remove his access to a car. Ensure neighbors and friends will NOT loan their cars! If dad has any assets, they should be used to cover the cost , but may have to happen after the decisions are made, esp if you don't have any POA/access to their finances.

Try to explain to the other family members that your dad could fatally harm someone else while driving due to his impaired decision making. It is serious business.
My friend's mom at 86 actually hit a young mom pushing a stroller with her 2 kids who were crossing at a crosswalk. That's when they took her license away and she had a lawsuit on her hands. Another woman in my town who was 90, due to cognitive decline, accidentally put her foot on the gas instead of the brake and she drove her car up over a wall and crashed into the playground of a preschool. Luckily the children were still inside the building, but she was hurt. That's when her license was finally taken away.
Get a doctor's note stating that he is not capable of driving. Take away the keys or disable the car. I'm sure that your family does not want to be in any of the situations that I mentioned.

Driving is the last thing that a man wants to give up when his health is failing. I noticed this in my Dad. Even though he could barely walk into a grocery store, he could get in his pickup and ride out to the fire station to visit his friends there and to the store or just a ride up to where he use to fish about 5 miles from his house. He did not drive outside his community. I worried about him (and others) but he was lucid. He did not have dementia. But he could get out of the house. My husband and I just scaled down to a one car family. If I drive, he is constantly telling me how to drive and I have driven a vehicle for 55 years! Drives me crazy but they want to be in the driver's seat. That is the last thing they feel they have control over. It is HARD to tell them they can no longer drive. I know it HAS to be done for dementia patients and those in their 90's who are just not well enough but the STILL want to drive that car. Good luck and yes, he does not need to be driving. 97 years old is really pushing it. He will hurt himself, others, and tear up the vehicle at some point. Good luck in however you go about this. They do have pride so I know you are trying to tread carefully.

I agree that there are probably hundreds, perhaps more, of mentally and physically incompetent drivers on our roads. My dad was one of those drivers who drove until 88 years of age, as was my mother-in-law (87) who has severe, brittle diabetes. My father-in-law has narcolepsy and still drives short distances (which scares me, but apparently not anyone else).

For my dad, it took the doctor telling him he could no longer drive and that she would be the first to call the police if she ever heard he was behind the wheel! We handed the car to my brother, since he was in desperate need of a trustworthy vehicle to get to/from work. (He eventually bought the car and the money went into Dad’s account.) Whenever Dad asked about his car, I would remind him how much he was blessing his son by allowing him to use his vehicle. Dad often forgot that the doctor told him that he wasn’t to drive, but we did whatever we could to get him where he needed to be, and let him know how sad we were that this part of his life was past. For men especially, this loss is huge!

My mother-in-law was one of those who drove and had multiple accidents due to her diabetes. She can no longer manage it properly and after many episodes of “near coma” low sugar levels, her brain has suffered. The police apparently became tired of finding her by the side of the road, or driving erratically, or causing accidents. It took the involvement of the police and the DMV to revoke her license and get her off the road. My sister-in-law tried to get the doctor to step in and relay to Mom that she could no longer drive, but the doctor stated that even when he reported to the DMV, his patients would still drive, so it wasn’t something he cared to do. (Not sure that all doctors would feel this way.) My father-in-law was enabling Mom to continue driving up to that point, even so far as giving her directions via cellphone when she was lost, and having her drive him to various activities, due to his narcolepsy.

The “rules” for revoking licenses is different from state to state. In my state, a doctor can send a notice to the DMV or the police can request that a driver’s license be revoked (or that they be tested by a particular facility that handles dementia patients). The family can try to get the loved one off the road, but that doesn’t suspend the license. Removing batteries, removing the vehicle, disengaging something in the engine to keep the person off the road is important. As several stated, a family could easily be liable for an accident in which their loved one was involved.

The most loving thing a family can do—as hard as it is—is take the keys and remove the vehicle from the loved ones’ presence. If the vehicle can’t be moved out, then do something to keep it from being driven. People’s lives are at stake whenever anyone with mental impairment is behind the wheel.

Shad, you responded to my post by saying "set up the house so there is no need to get out and about. "

Not everyone wants to be isolated in their home.

My dad has always loved to go for a drive. He would take us 2.5 hours away from home to have breakfast. So no matter what was at home, he would be driving.

As much as we wish at times that we could enforce our will on an elderly loved one it is unrealistic and quite frankly, I think it is unjust to try and control what they do. Unless they are endangering others it is their business if they want to do things that we think are risky. We ALL do things that someone thinks are risky. We have to have a healthy balance when helping our elders.

We had a similar situation. I'm not going to say solved, but helped a great bit... we had the police stop by. Talking man to man, the cop with all his uniform etc..was able to convince him he was helping his community( by keeping it safe) good luck.

My Dad was like a pig on ice driving and drove my mother around who was in advanced Alzheimers. We had made interventions to make him stop but he finally forced our hand by having the police show up to his door and take the keys away from him. His doctor let me know he may drop dead of a heart attack as his heart was weak so an ambulance was nearby just in case. Then the car was taken by a family member and hidden till sold.
Guess you should think about going to talk with your local Sheriff about this. I am sure he can intervene in some way once he has enough proof. God Bless

Since you and Sis live several hours away, visit together and one of you drive his car home. Then hide it somewhere there. Tell him you sold it.

The best solution would be to bring in the Department of Motor Vehicles, they would require a driving test to continue to drive. Another option is to have the doctor write a prescription stating that the individual cannot drive. This way when the person says they are going to drive the family can show them the prescription from their doctor saying they cannot drive. Many seniors even with dementia will follow a doctor's order.

Many individuals suggested that you disable the car, here is the problem with doing that: I had a client who's family disabled his car by removed the distributor cap so the car would not drive. When the gentleman found out that his car did not start he called for a cab, went to a car dealership and brought a new car. I could not believe that someone actually allowed him to buy a car but they did!

This is a very hard situation to deal with and what works for one individual will not always work for another.

Wow I had the same problem with my dad at age 98 with dementia. The doctor told him to stop driving but he refused so she finally sent a letter to the State to revoke his license. He still tried to get his car back but he found out that he couldn't get it back or buy another car without a valid license. Get the license revoked. It also helped us to get his car turned in to the bank that gave him the 7 year loan to buy the car and a firm conversation with the dealership that sold it to him at age 98. When my father contacted them to buy a car for someone else to drive him they told him without an active valid license he could not purchase a car in his name. Finally something worked.

If a person with dementia doesn't have the capacity to understand the danger they represent, then taking away their license won't mean anything either. The car needs to be gone if possible. Expecting someone who can no longer reason to be reasonable is never going to happen.

Have you asked his Dr to speak with him? That worked for my husband when we were very concerned about asking him to quit driving. We knew he would not take it kindly from us, but he accepted it from his dr. and never even tried to drive again. He still had his driver's license but I always helped him into the passenger seat and he never objected. This is from a man who very rarely rode anywhere with me. He always drove not matter how far we were going. He always told people he could still drive and had his license, but never tried to.

If you can’t do anything else, disable the car. When he tries to start it, say you’ll call service people to tow it to dealership or wherever. Or say you’ll get someone to fix it in a couple days. Delay delay delay...divert divert divert. I was in this situation till mom drive right into the back of a parked truck, totaling both. Thank God no one was injured or killed, she did have to spend several weeks in hospital with broken ribs.

When this was going on with my own mother, I wrote a letter to the BMV.  I simply stated that my mom was diagnosed with dementia and had been getting lost and that I felt it was no longer safe for her to drive.  I also mentioned that she had failed a simulated driving test that the dementia docs gave her.   In the letter I asked the BMV to bring her in to test her.  I told them I was her daughter but wanted to remain anonymous.  They sent her a letter in the mail asking her to come in and be tested by a certain date or her drivers license would be null and void.  My mother no longer had a clue where the BMV was...so it took care of itself at that point.  I told her that I didn't want anything to happen to her and that I know she would feel horrible if a child or a dog were to run out in front of her...explained that the dementia was affecting her response time.  I then told her we needed to sell her car. 

I know someone whose father had dementia and they had detached the battery from his car so that he couldn't use it, but he managed to ask an unsuspecting neighbor to help him and managed to drive out of state until he ran out of gas.  They had to initiate a silver alert.  When the police found him, he had his cat in the car with him, so animal control had to be called...it was a mess.

If the fear of your dad getting hurt or killed doesn't hold any weight with your mom, maybe you could tell your mother that if she refuses to stop him from driving, she could be financially liable if he were to cause an accident and hurt someone.  

I know this is difficult for your dad.  Losing that independence and control would be difficult for any of us.

I think a previous poster suggested this and I think it is a great idea of letting your dad's favorite child or grandchild ask to borrow his car and then never returning it.  Genius!

It's incomprehensible to me how difficult such a situation can be. I was in this spot three years ago. It was obvious that it my husband's driving had become problematic before we moved and it became a real issue after. He couldn't find his way to church 1.5 mi. one right turn and one left turn from house. I fixed his phone so I could keep up with his whereabouts but within a few short days it was very clear to us that he was done driving. I visited the DDS office to explain situation, show them paperwork where VA had declared him 100% disabled, incompetent, made me fiduciary over him and his benefits and also my civilian POA. I told them I wanted his license pulled. They said they couldn't do anything unless his doctor would contact DDS at the state office. There is a form that can be filled out to request state test and medical exam, but the DDS wouldn't guarantee anonymity and that could put someone in a difficult situation dealing with an irascible dementia loved one. Oh, and the great news was that he would present himself for renewal a few months later, all they would do was an eye test!! Four months post move his car developed mechanical issue that cost several hundred dollars to fix. We argued about not getting that done. Car had broken down when I was driving it on errand for its weekly "exercise" and it was sitting at dealership. Finally gave in and got car back. Two months later another problem. Almost $1K to fix. This time he agreed car wasn't worth the repair and a total God thing had the car sold the same day. After that it was just the constant "got to get out there find me some wheels" but he never actually asked me or our son to go look. I was very anxious about license renewal. When he asked me to take him to DDS I thought "well, he hasn't driven in over a year now so what's the harm." I almost went off the road when on the way there he declared that he was just going to get a state ID instead of renewing..... I was nervous all through the process. When clerk asked him to look through lenses for eye test I reminder her that I had selected ID only. She fetched a "voluntary surrender" state form that he had to sign and we left there with an ID. He will say that he misses driving but it's just like missing traveling, doing this or that. In short, he misses his pre-dementia life. It was a real eye opener going through this, and left me wondering how many mentally incompetent drivers are out there on any given day because our POAs aren't worth the paper they're written on and the afflicted person's rights can't be infringed, incompetent or not. But let them kill somebody and there'll be hell to pay.

An insurance company CAN refuse to insure anyone who they deem to be an unsafe driver - no matter the reason. The State can refuse to issue a driver's license to anyone who it deems an unsafe driver - no matter the reason.

I would fax the script that the MD wrote to the auto insurance company to make the point that your parent should NOT be allowed to drive. That might be enough to make them terminate his insurance.

In the meantime, I agree with the others. The vehicle needs to be taken away!

This seems to be a legal matter. You have to get the police or court involved. Are you prepared for those “higher powers” to take over? Why won’t his wife get involved? What is her reasoning when a fatal crash could cause her to lose everything?

Ha, it's amazing that they can't do most anything but can still drive. I'm not in your situation any more. Even after 5 accidents the insurance kept renewing. I threw a tantrum with him (I thought) out of ear shot ~ranting about, killing some one, losing the house, not having anything to take care of either of them. I'm embarrassed to say when the "family" mentioned about him getting killed I ranted, "that is the least of our worries, it would solve a lot of problems". The next time it came to him needing to go to church, he gave me the keys and asked me to take him.
He never drove again.

I am not familiar with the procedure in your state, but contact your DMV and ask. In Massachusetts, a family member can notify the DMV in writing when they believe that the patient poses a threat to their safety or the safety of others due to their health condition. The DMV will suspend their license and will notify the patient in writing and give them an opportunity to appeal the suspension. They would have to prove to the DMV that they are in fact able to drive safely and will have to produce a doctors letter stating such. I did this with my 78 year old aunt who was driving down one way streets, not stopping at stop signs or traffic signals and driving down sidewalks. The DMV suspended her license and she could not get her doctor to write the letter, so the suspension stayed. We sold the car and she ended up using public transportation to get around.

Its a shame that due to his dementia that you can't reason with him. Since he was reported to the department of motor vehicles, I would contact them to report your father so that they can take the appropriate action. I would also contact the state and local police so that they can stop him on the road. In order to interfere with his driving, you could remove the distributor cap from the car disabling it. If in any way you can claim the vehicle, I would take it, hide it, or take all sets of car keys. You could also combine the removal of the distributor cap along with the keys. Not knowing how aware he is of authority, perhaps the local police can speak with him. I also thought of something else. Ask his physician for a driver's evaluation. It's usually performed by an occupational therapist at acute physical rehabilitation facilities.

We went through this with my dad. His car was his sanctuary, his freedom. Even after the doctor submitted paperwork to the DMV and they suspended his license, he continued to drive. This went on for over 6 months. All dad kept saying was, "See, I still have a license" because the hard copy of his license was still in his wallet. They never took it. I finally engaged the help of the local deputy in his area. He would drive by his house a lot because he said they could not do anything unless they caught dad driving on the street. One day, he stopped by dad's on a Saturday morning and talked to him because he was out front. He finally took that hard copy of the license and that's what did it. In dad's mind, he still had his license because it was in his wallet even though it was suspended at the DMV. Until he went to AL, we were never able to break him of the habit of driving in and out of his garage. He said he was allowed to drive on his own property (which was true - the police said they couldn't do anything about that.) At that point, it was all about control.

If you can contact a small local police department where he often drives, they may be willing to look out for him and pull him over . He’s a danger to others . My mother did the same thing with my stepfather, he couldn’t figure out how to open the door, put in the seatbelt but she felt he could drive🙄. Finally he started scaring her enough that she started driving . With her we just got rid of the car , she actually gave it to someone wanting to get a new one ( didn’t happen) but still gripes about it . You need to take into account their judgement is off too, not just their memory, so to them, they are capable

I've been fighting this battle for a couple of years now. Mother in law, 85 with dementia and lives with us refused to quit driving because she "only drove a mile to church on Sundays and stopping at the store for her weekly shopping on the way home". Took the keys and ended up having to give them back when she called the Sheriff's office on us. Deputy said as long as she had a license, we couldn't legally stop her and the keys were her property. Our daughter who lives next door was borrowing the car almost daily to get to work so disabling it was out the question and other than telling us she didn't need to be driving, her doctors weren't much help. And she wouldn't listen to us because at 60ish, my wife and I are "just the kids and she knows better than we do".
A few weeks ago, my wife had a short hospital stay and our daughter was going to drive Grammy to a Dr appointment so I could stay with my wife at the hospital. As our daughter was crossing the yard to get her, Grammy goes tearing out the driveway like Mario Andretti, so she calls us and tells us what's going down. About a half hour later, my wife gets a call from her mom's primary care who's very upset that MiL has driven herself to her appointment. Said, MiL was very proud of herself that she'd given everyone the slip and drove the 15 miles to the Dr's office "only getting turned around a few times".
Upshot was her Dr finally did the paperwork to DMV to have her license pulled, and wrote on a prescription paper her name, "DO NOT DRIVE!" and signed it. We put the keys to her car in a lock box (except the set that our daughter has). Now when she starts up about wanting to drive, we tell her that keys were taken away and show her the prescription for her not to drive. If she continues to protest, we tell her that if her Dr says she can drive, she can have the keys back. And I drive her to the church and store on Sundays.

Now if we can just get her to quit asking what day it is every 2 minutes.

My mother-in-law was still driving at 95, with dementia slowly creeping up on her (she’s almost 101 now, still living at home). She only drove about a mile to the grocery store and back once a week, but we were always worried about her. At about that time, my adult son (30 yrs old) had an accident and wrecked his car. He was recently divorced and in bad financial shape, so he asked his grandmother if he could borrow her car for a few days. She was happy to loan it to him and to this day (about 6 years later) she still hasn’t asked about her car. My wife and I do all her shopping so she has no need to drive. This may seem a bit underhanded to take advantage of her dementia but it was only a matter of time before she got lost on the road or hurt herself (or someone else). So, my advice: ask to borrow her car and “forget” to return it! Hopefully your dad will forget about it too!

Because do not live near your father a lot of the standard advice can't be implemented by you.

Calling the state police can be helpful IF it is done at a time when your father is driving and can be caught doing so. You're probably not going to be able to do that from your location.

Your focus has to be on convincing the people who are near him to stop enabling him. I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this fear and frustration.

This is a horrible accident waiting to happen. Baffles me how people can't take care of someone who can't think for themselves. They are like children . You are in charge now, not them.

Can I just say, good luck?
No, not really an answer. I will say it was the hardest thing with my mom. Every situation will be different in its solutions.
Mom's car was taken from her in a tricky way. She voluntarily "donated" the car to a family member who was in need. So fo awhile no car and no keys. It was still a fight because she did not want to believe she was not legally able to drive. We found passages of driving law (cherry picked) that supported our claim against her driving. She reluctantly accepted it but wanted to challenge it or get retested.
Te very lucky thing was the car just wasn't available (i.e. far from where we lived). She challenged the idea of her driving off and on for years until she passed. We just continued making up stories mixed in with talks of legality, doctor's rule and common sense.
Hide the car the simplest advice.