Would we make good pioneers?

I do not believe using hand sanitizer or anti-bacterial soaps reduces immunity, I believe immunity is reduced when we try to maintain a constant state of "cleanliness". I grew up in and maintain in my own life "zones" of dirt. The house is clean with special attention to having an absolutely clean kitchen, bathrooms, and beds. The basement, porches and out buildings are areas used for potentially floor/furniture damaging projects, muddy pets, coming in with mud/snow/grass cuttings, etc. Yards and gardens are fairly dirty areas - only real considerations are safety - grass is kept short and trimmed to discourage snakes and other varmints (or at least make them more visible), bees and too many spiders. Playing in the rain, mud puddles, and small creeks are very acceptable as are the occasional frog or turtle found in the flower beds or yard. Yesterday when we were hooking up the pumps and filters for the above ground pool, the 5 year old wanted to jump into the still green pool and we let him. The decayed algae smell he came out with was very bad and he had to take a bath before he could run in the house again. Go outside and play or work and get sweaty and smelly and very dirty and build an immune system. Come inside, get clean and live in a clean environment. Bacteria is natural and many are beneficial. Water in streams is cleaned by "good" bacteria, the presence of some algae indicates clean water where too much algae indicates the water is foul. Whether you agree with Dr Adkins of the diet fame, he did have one really true statement in his book; I'm paraphrasing: Mankind has lived more or less the same way, eating the same food groups for hundreds to thousand of years. The industrial revolution which changed our diets to include refined, processed and out of season foods is only 150 years old and our bodies have not adapted or changed for those new dietary patterns. I believe the same could be said for bacteria. Plain soaps, hot water, alcohol, vinegar, and other natural acids were the cleaning standard for centuries; all the new disinfectants are a recent change.

This year because of covid-19, I'm using disinfectants outdoors to clean the outdoor furniture and decks after visitors for the first time in my life. I'm even having the kids dip their basketballs and footballs in a bucket of disinfectant periodically when playing with neighborhood kids or other visitors. There have only been 7 cases in our county and less than 50 in the adjoining county (which is the high water mark in our region), so the risk is low when allowing neighbors over to visit or play outside. Testing is also available to anyone who wants it. We're "opening up" with social distancing and it appears most people are following the guidelines so far. Still, I will be pushing visitors into that outdoor "dirty" zone. I'm even thinking about enclosing a section of the front porch to create a "visiting room" not tied to my home's central air for this winter.

Like SendHelp, my father also grew up on a farm. Except he was the only child home when his dad died, being the youngest, so all the chores for the cows and around the house were his. They didn’t have running water in the house, and he’s told me how they used waxy pages from a department store catalog as toilet paper in the out house (fun reading, too. He liked looking at the toys for sale). This was in the 1940-50s. In the winter nights, the kitchen wall would be so cold that ice built up on it.

I often tried to mentally prepare myself for living like he did, but I feel so lazy! I don’t know if I’d enjoy it or it would get the better of me!

My father grew up on a farm along with 12 total siblings.
The idea of living independently and simply appeals to me.
As a fantasy maybe.

When I got up at 3 a.m., there was a spider in the bathroom sink, so I had to go back to bed. The first spider of the year.

Recalling that in late May the worry back then was, when was the first day warm enough to swim in the pool without heating it. My son had his birthday parties out back in our pool. The pool guy, the gardener, the housekeeper-not really missing it. Lol.

The full moon is May 7th, and I am already getting grouchy. As I see others criticizing and arguing on other forums, yakking away, discussing a topic like beating a dead horse, it peeves me more during the full moon. I understand the stress though, and people need to talk it out, even if they are all over the place. So, I am not going to listen, because there is just too much misinformation out there, too much talking. I don't want others to suffer because of me. Maybe I am becoming a recluse.

FF - My family tree looks a lot like yours. I've always been vocal in trying to contradict the common belief that people didn't live to great old age years ago, the averages are disproportionately skewed because of the high rate of childhood and infant mortality.

After shaking the family tree, vast majority from the early 1800's were farmers. I noticed they lived to be into their 90's, if they didn't parish in a farming accident or hunting accident. One maiden gal lived to be 105 [guess her secret was NOT getting married]. Everyone ate organic food. You could say some was "fast food" and chasing down a chicken wasn't easy.

Then the gaggle of their children who followed in their parents footsteps of farming also lived very long lives.

It was those children who fled to the city life where their lives were shorter, living to be 70's or 80's.

Then their children who continued to live in the city, shorter life spans still, and heavens all the divorces.

realyreal - that reminds me of the old joke:
My idea of roughing it, is slow room service.

As long as they had room services, yes, I think I would have been a good pioneer woman. 😁

If one of us was being too fussy my father used to say we'll all eat a bushel of dirt before we die😂.
But seriously, there have been studies that show farm kids have less asthma and we are only starting to learn about the complexities of our gut bacteria and the role it plays in our immune system, in my mind it's clear that dosing every toddler with antibiotics for any little earache etc is coming back to bite us.

FreqFlyer,

I remember being a kid and whether it was my parents or my friend's parents, if us kids were in the house to much our parents would tell us if we stayed in the house they (parents) would put us to work. Man, us kids would be gone out the door! We never stayed in the house not like kids today!

My mom had a garden and I would eat her green beans, tomatoes, and carrots. I would wash the carrots and tomatoes, but I would just eat the green beans!

As far as people over disinfectant, I think people did. If you think of the immune system being like a muscle that needs to be worked out and if a person is disinfecting everything then the immune system becomes weak and can't fight infections! I am not saying to not wash your hands or disinfect countertops because it should be done, but when I see people breaking out the can of Lysol and spray half of the can on a cart in the store I just think WOW Really?! What a waste of Lysol and there goes one's immune system and our poor planet!


I don't know if we're pioneers, but I do know that we are part of a history that people will read about "how the Covid-19 made the world go into Lockdown!"

I think being pioneers after having everything would be difficult. Being spoiled as most of us are and having to start over wouldn't be easy.

I remember Oprah and her friend Gail pretending to rough it on one of Oprah's shows. I thought they were so obnoxious laughing and rolling their eyes. As if we believed for a minute that they were really roughing it when the cameras weren't rolling.

FreqFlyer, I'm glad you raised the issue of immunity being compromised b/c of excessive use of hand sanitizer. I've read that for years, and wondered why with all the so-called experts that issue hadn't been raised. And I wonder how much the probably now extensive use of hand sanitizer is compromising what immunity we do have.

I hope that some really serious research is done about these issues when time is available, especially since the predictions I've read also indicate that this won't be the last pandemic, that there will be more in the future and they may be more intense.

I also wonder how much tolerance and immunity has been lost b/c of less outdoor activity, and more time inside with tech devices.

Did your mother ever say that you had a ruddy complexion after being outside? I remember my mother making those comments, but they were complimentary, meaning we had a healthy looking skin.

In some ways it's ironic, if not counterintuitive, for people to be confined at home, and in the home as opposed to outdoors, although in my neighborhood I notice that more people are walking, while others are taking chairs and sitting in their driveways watching the world go by.

I was noticing in one of the briefing parades on tv how pale some of the people were. I also remember thinking years ago that whites aren't really "white"; we're more like pale pink or peach, or some blend. In the briefings, I kept wondering how those faces became so pale. Staying inside perhaps?

I was brought up that a little dirt won't hurt. When I was a kid, my parents would toss me out into the backyard and the only time I could come in was for lunch and dinner.... or if my snow suit bulky leggings were too encrusted with ice/snow.

My parents had a grape arbor, strawberries, raspberries, and pear tree. I would eat those things without washing them off. I would spend hours building tiny roads through the vegetable gardens, and I still have my Micky Mouse toy tractor :) Yes, had to wash my hands before eating, using old fashioned cake bar soap.

In today's world, are we over cleaning and over disinfecting things pre-virus? I remember when I use to purchase anti-bacterial liquid soap for the bathrooms in the small office building I had managed. Then one day the doctor across the hall suggested just regular liquid soap as he felt the anti-bacterial soap was messing with our immune system. Hmmm, food for thought.

On nice cool days, this doctor would open his office door, then open the exterior door to get fresh air into this office. We did the same with our office. We also opened windows. Can't do that in the new office building we are both in now :(

So much to think about.

FreqFlyer, I had never heard of a newspaper source with articles that far back. Thank you! I'm going to start using that; there's a lot of information about both my parents' families that I'd like to find.

Daughter of 1930, I would wimp out at the thought of killing a chicken as well, but we are so accustomed these days to a "hands off" approach to so many basic aspects of living. I might raise chickens just for the eggs, if there weren't any foxes around, but I also cringe at the thought of just mucking out the chicken house.

With the various theories and countertheories on the spread of the CV, I've often wondered if our cushy lifestyle, less activity, and less sufficiency has compromised our immunity and made us more vulnerable. I'm not convinced that there's only one causal factor, and so far I haven't seen any stats, e.g., on whether each of those who have perished were drinkers, smokers, nonwalkers/no exercise people.

Some of the front line people such as law enforcement were probably in better health b/c they're generally so active, and I understand how they easily could be exposed. But the children?

I anticipate that there will be a lot of research done after the pandemic is at least temporarily controlled.


Earlybird, I had a similar upbringing, and often miss the emotional and physical rewards of living so much more closely to the land, even though I still try to as much as I can. But there was a freedom then that we don't have now, and that's from checking e-mail, posting (to which I confess) and not having to add batteries and battery charging as a regular activity.

I remember the fragrance of freshly washed clothes as we hung them on the line. And the refreshing feel of skating across the lake with wind in our face. We used to hold out our arms and let the wind blow us across the lake.

My mother took care of five children and a husband and she did it very well. I can remember my mother hanging all the towels and clothes on the clothesline and talking to the neighbors as they go about doing their daily chores as well. My mother made everything homemade for her family. Set a beautiful dinner table fit for a queen. We picked apples as a family and got paid for it. We picked most of the day, music playing and having a great time with family. Mom and me picked drops and the rest of the family, dad and all my brothers got on a ladder. At the end of the day we were proud of our accomplishment and accepted graciously our payment for a job well done, My parents taught us at a very early age about hard work and the value of money. I had two jobs as a teenage, and when I was in the workforce as an adult I sometimes had two jobs My father worked two jobs and sometimes three jobs to support his family and he did it well. We were not watching tv all the time, but out in the fresh air playing with my siblings, football, fishing, building igloos in the winter and ice skating. Those to me were the good old days. We brought my niece up, she lost her mother at a young age. She had her first job at sixteen and is a very hard worker to this day. She was not on the computer all day, but ice skating and skiing in the winter and roller blading in the spring and summer. Had chores to do and did them with grace. My brother had a small cabin in the woods on 10 acres of land. He had an out house, chopped wood for the wood stove, hand washed dishes in a pot heated from the wood stove,I remember using the out house in he middle of winter , boy was it cold. Took a shower outdoor under a tree with a solar shower heated nice and warm from the sun. I enjoy the simple things in life. I think I would of made a good pioneer.

We’ve become far too wimpy to pioneer anything. When I compare what my life is like to what my grandmother’s was, the difference is stark. She had a cow to milk twice a day, chickens to gather eggs from daily, one chicken she killed and did the process of preparing as a meal weekly, had a large vegetable garden for food, not as a hobby, hand washed all clothes and hung them out to dry, walked to the post office each day as she was too rural for delivery, took care of five children, and a demanding, fully chauvinist husband who didn’t lift a finger, and cooked three meals a day from scratch. I buy food, a lot of which is processed a good bit, like boneless chicken, use a washer and dryer, have things delivered to my door, and have help from my better informed husband. If I was transported back to her times I’d be lost, especially on killing that chicken!

It must have been this thread that got my brain thinking about how my family's lives would have been different if we had all been born just 100 years earlier - my grandparents never had any lifesaving surgeries or took much medication so the course of their lives might not have been significantly different but my parents would have undoubtedly died in their 50's (mom) and 60's (dad) from heart disease, and I may have died from the pneumonia I had as a child (no antibiotics then) but I might have been destined to die of my cancer, I don't think they were doing very many hysterectomies in 1920.

One website I have been using to help find missing people in my family tree is Newspapers.com [membership]. They have newspapers going back to the 1700's.

Found one article from the 1870's where my great-great-grandmother, in her 30's, had died from complications when her long dress caught fire while she was tending an outdoor fire burning brush.

This is an interesting question; I hope a lot of people respond as it's a good time to contemplate alternatives as our lifestyle has temporarily been significantly altered, not only by a virus so tiny it can't be seen w/o a microscope, but also by the varied and worldwide reactions and coping methods.

I would love the simplicity of less news, less 24/7, and so much "in your face" presence.   I'm not even going to address drones.   I hope I never see any flying over when I'm working in my garden.   I also won't address the lack of privacy, the tracking methods, although there is some benefit to that now during the pandemic.

Privacy is much more important now, probably because expectation and reality of it are fading.     I'm cherishing what I do have, although I certainly think this is also a matter of choice even in nonpandemic times.

Another thing about contemporary life that drives me crazy are the tv programs, which have significantly degenerated over the last several years.    Exploitive and what I consider nonproductive intrusions into people's lives (although I assume they're well paid) such as the families with enough kids for 2 baseball teams, Kardashians and similar attention grabbing people, and/or other similar programs are to me perhaps the lowest type of programs on tv these days.

Smithsonian and PBS offer a completely different approach, insightful, historical, analytical, and knowledgeable.   I learn from them.    NatGeo and BBC also offer good programs.   For these types of "entertainment", I am very appreciative.   

I don't recall what was available when we got our first tv, other than Ozzie & Harriet, The Nelson Family, and similar programs. I do remember walking hand in hand with Mom, staring at the brand new tvs in storefronts, and wondering what they were.  

Hanging laundry was another pleasant, bonding experience.   Mom, my sister and I did the laundry with the old ringer machine in the basement, then carried it outside and hung it on the clothesline.    I still have the clothesline from my house, and plan to hang it up again when/if I can find new line.  

Something else I would miss are the wonderful varieties of ice cream!    We did make our own, taking turns churning the old ice cream maker and sampling it, but there were nothing like the varieties today.

As to being a pioneer, I think those folks had to be very, very strong, physically and emotionally.    It took such courage to venture out into unknown territory, and be totally dependent on yourself to survive.    The Voyageurs were also strong people; I don't think I could have lived like that.


FF, thanks for starting such a thread with such an intriguing concept.  I'm anxious to learn what others did "a long, long time ago."

Some years back my daughters told me I needed to leave my comfort zone for a bit. There were some calamities happening as there have been from time to time. We have been dealt some real unique problematic situations over the years but have managed to get through them. Anyway when occasions come up I tell them I have left my comfort zone and don't need to leave it further.

I had to chuckle when I saw your question, I've always thought I would have made a good pioneer. I think that most people of my generation and for sure everyone younger can't even imagine that kind of lifestyle but I knew first hand people who grew up without electricity, indoor plumbing, the telephone, automobiles etc and had a relative who "went west" in the early 1900's!

GardenArtist, same with me, no school buses.... it was walk, walk, walk.

One thing I was jealous about, my Dad rode horseback all 12 years of school.

FF, I'm with you. Other than those living in or on the edge of poverty, many people live a soft life these days. I doubt if many know how to properly and safely cut a tree, let alone build something. Or can or dehydrate foods for storage. Or make their own clothes.

When I was inspecting my father's basement to decide what to keep and what to discard, I found the old mangle we used to press clothes. I think the old ringer washer is there as well.

I could back farther and add shearing fleece, cording wool, spinning to make yarn, and then knitting clothes. Or growing plants to use for dying fabric.

Remember when children walked to school? We never had buses for grade school; we walked, even in blizzards.