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I want to open a burial acct since she does not have enough insurance for even a decent creamtion. She was complaining about paying for insurance and up keep on her car which she no longer drives, so I suggested she sell it. She's all for selling, but she wants access to the money for her own over-the-top spending habits. I think a burial fund needs to be started and I think she needs to contribute since she didn't provide adequate insurance for her final expenses......thoughts on how get her to see reason?

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If there is no money for a funeral as someone suggested you can donate her body to science at a local university. I don't think they buy the body but your expenses will be minimal if you have to have the body donated. After that host a celebration of her life either at your home or your church. Also if there is little money a fancy coffin can be rented for the service and the actual burial in something cheaper or you can skip viewing and have the ashes in an urn for visitation. A meal can be arranged at a local hotel with snacks and coffee or wine. Stand up to Mom, she can't change and will do what she wants so just keep one step ahead of her to protect yourself
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I am so sorry for all you are going through Joyce. Mom has always been financially irresponsible and neglectful, but she's never been outright mean to me. My grandparents raised me for the most part, while Momma was pursuing her career and next husband. I was basically a show piece she'd dress up and parade in front of her new beau, especially if he had his own kids, so she could play "Mommy of the year", then send me back to by grandparents who loved me dearly and raised me quite well. I am an only child and feel it is my duty to take care of my mom. I am just going to do the best I can by her. My adult children, family, and husband know how she is, so I am not too concerned with her threats and I post on FB my concerns in a nice way so it can't come back to bite me. I've talked to her pastor yesterday about my concerns, and he said the church family would help me with the final arrangements when the time comes so I have a great deal of support.
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Yes sandih61, evil people really can do that. This has been held over me for years and years through my FIL. He would do things to my husband (e.g. when my husband was living at home, he would come home and find things of his thrown in the trash). When he would ask his dad where something had went, he would say, "huh? Oh, I didn't know what it was." My husband once got sick of it and came back very much like you did with your mom. He said, "well, next time -- maybe I will just throw some stuff of yours out that I don't know what it is." Well, that was all it took for his dad to hit the roof and he said, "if you ever threaten me again, I will bring it back on you one thousand fold."
He has threatened my husband's job once and just so we would never, ever, ever question his ability to make a phone call to my husband's workplace -- he would sometimes call my husband's cell phone when he needed him to jump but other times he would call the main office line asking for him. He also has shown up at his workplace before unannounced.
As he got sicker, he would demand my husband come to his house 3-4 times a day becuase the paid helper, visiting nurse and for awhile hospice wasn't enough. We had to get hospice away from him because since he has an addictive personality and they refused to believe us, he got addicted to the painkillers. One night when my husband was 7 minutes late, he pulled out a knife from the side pocket of his chair and began to cut his stomach until he got his precious painkillers. He lied to the nurse and told her he had a hangnail. She believed him. They are excellent manipulators. So excellent that my FIL is in rehab now and was weaned off by the hospital and psych ward. On. No. Painkillers. Yep, only as needed and he never asks for them.
Things to do when dealing with a psychopath's behavior (yes, my FIL has 16 out of 19 signs, your mom may too): 1) If you have a smart phone, put it on record before you are forced to be around them (and you will be forced). Record their behavior. Send any unusual behavior to doctors, nurses, assisted living facitlities -- anyone that would be in care of your mom. Written documentation you can fake but a recording is actually THEM.
2) TELL EVERYONE how your mom really is...go to your boss, your co-workers, the janitor at your workplace. Let them know how she really is. My husband has done this. He tells his boss and any managers, "hey, guess what my dad did now? He put a gun to his stomach, he cut himself with a knife, etc." He has told them that not only has his dad been diagnosed with dementia but that his has been mentally unstable for decades and then he lists examples -- in detail. Is it embarassing to have such a parent? Yep, it sure is. Is it worse to lose your employment over a vindictive nut-job? Yep, sure is. When my husband tells people in the workplace the status of his dad and his hatefulness, they already know that if he calls and says, "hey, that son of mine is stealing money from your company" or "he's got a jail record" or "he has kiddie porn" they have established that he is a trouble making kook that needs to be locked away.
3) Get lawyered up. Five years ago my FIL was insistant that my husband take him to a lawyer to get his affairs in order. He made husband POA. A year later, he messed up his phone and got mad at my husband over his own phone bill and revoked the POA and gave it to a card-playing buddy. After he died, he gave it back to my husband. After he went to rehab in the nursing home and they told us he could never live alone again (and he ain't coming to live with me without a priest a crucifix and a bucket of Holy Water), my husband started the process of liquadating his assets. Before we did so, we obtained our own attorney. We are protecting ourselves legally because we simply cannot trust what he does.
4) If you have a spouse or children around this kind of individual, warn them. These people do not play fair. They will use your spouse or child to hurt you emotionally. We have a young 8 year old. She knows there are things to never tell Grandpa and she is never left alone with him. Ever.
Please remember that evil behavior does not equal mentally unstable. We have had so many nurses, doctors, etc. try to get us to believe that my FIL is just a crotchy old man who always wants his way. If that is the case, he has been an old man since his teens. Even the military could not straighten him out and kept demoting him. They kept him in a military psych ward for a year (and no he was never in combat or a POW).
Please take your mom on her word. She is telling you the truth when she said she is already telling people. People like this do call adult services just to watch their kids squirm. It is a sadistic joy they get.
I remember before my FIL went to the hospital, then to the psych ward and then to rehab that I was begging my husband to stop the madness and invoke POA and put him in a mental institution or a nursing home. The one thing he told me one night sent chills up my spine. He said, "he is not sick enough yet and if I put him in a nursing home and he gets out, one of the first people he will come after is me. I can't be gone to work and worry that he will get out and come over and shoot you and our daughter -- or pay someone to do it." That is the kind of hell I lived under.
The thing is now lying in a nursing home. We are promised every few weeks by doctors that "this is it." It never is, but he cannot get to us now. It is also harder for him to make phone calls but he still does to my husband's cell and sometimes to the house. I pitched a fit to the nurses and told them I want his phone use restricted and they have helped. It is now documented however that he has been in a psych ward twice (once recently) and so the possiblity of him now calling my husband's office and stirring up anything anyone would believe is over. He is still pitching fits that he cannot get his hands on money.
The day that we will finally feel some sense of peace is the day the last shovel of dirt is thrown on his casket. I have told my daughter that daddy's job and our safety will be much improved when he passes.
Sorry for writing a book, but your post got to me and sounded just like him. I am so sorry to know someone else has to go through such wickedness. So very sorry. Hugs and take care.
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She can try, but doubtless anyone will believe her. I would call her bluff and leave her high and dry for a couple of days. Other than transportation issues, it sounds like she is able to manage her own independent living. Let her spend her money on cabs in the meantime. I strongly recommend you start keeping a journal of her irresponsible behavior - dates, times, circumstances. This will come in handy, especially for doctors in evaluating her mental competency. Perhaps you could arrange a private chat with her PCP and explain what is going on.
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Well, I found out today Mom sold her car to a neighbor......several weeks ago! I happened to be there today when he can to pick it up.....So I asked Mom what she did with the money from her car and she said it was none of my business....so I said well I guess it's none of my business how she gets to her dr appts, her prescriptions, and gets groceries, to which she responded that she would have me reported for elder neglect if I didn't do what she wanted when she wanted......she said she'd already started telling people how bad I treat her and I would lose my job if I don't comply.....I am just floored by her behavior! Can she really do that to me?
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Way to go Joyce!! Tough love really can work!
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My FIL tried to do the same thing to us. He would take insurance money for claims and not fix up his house like he should, gamble (Vegas, cards, etc) and spending money on girlfriends and playing bigshot.
Some policies he dropped and once he tried to drop a larger one and then hinted to my husband that he should pay the premium. Considering he has blown well over a quarter of a million in pension money, we were not having it.
So here were his options: 1)pay your dang burial policy with your own money.
2) we will cremate you if there is little left 3) if you continue to blow your money and cancel your policy, your body will be sold to the local university for scientific research purposes. My husband had the information handy about the process.
He paid his policy.
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My county offers Very Low cost cremation. Check the web site for the medical examiner in your County.

Your mom would rather spend her money alive than dead, but like a prior poster stated she is not entitled to a funeral you cannot afford.

Go cheap, tell her your plan. This does not make you a bad person, just financially practical. As for your church members, thank them for theirs prayers and support, they should not judge you for not having a fancy funeral.

Do not carry guilt for this
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so you need insurance to breathe, drive, have a roof over your head, operate a business, and insurance to die. americans just cant seem to see how perverse this concept is. theyll see it pretty soon because 8 dollar an hour wages arent going to support this ongoing farce. times are a changin..
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Your daughter isn't entitled to a wedding you can't afford, and your mother isn't entitled to a funeral you can't afford.

If you sell the car, can you keep her in the dark about how much you got for it? If you have to pay for a funeral, it should be decent and no more.
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Thank you Jeanne for your answer. The conversation never quite got off of the ground as mom refused to discuss it. In a nut shell she told it was my problem, and if I didn't "do it right" I'd look bad in front of our community and her church family and I would have to deal with the fallout. She then reminded me that she spent well over 15,000.00 on my grandmother's funeral in '99, which is true, but she also filed bankruptcy shortly afterward and never paid the credit card bills that the funeral was put on......not going there.....
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Jeanne, Where are you? Boo hoo.
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Jeanne, I like your answer - you are always so level-headed. You presented it like Sandi could almost make her Mom feel like they are planning a celebration instead of a funeral, and give her the incentive to set aside money via a burial policy or pre-pay it! Great strategy Jeanne!
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Do you have Power of Attorney, sandih61? Can you do this even if she doesn't agree? Where is she in the realm of being able to make her own decisions?

I wonder if it would help if you sat down with her and planned her funeral -- heck you could plan yours while you are at it, if that would make the whole topic more palatable to her. Beforehand research prices in your area.

Talk about whether she wants to be cremated, what she would prefer be done with the ashes, if she wants to be buried, where, what kind of coffin, etc. Also talk about the kind of service she'd like. Does she have favorite songs to be included? If friends want to contribute to a memorial or a cause, what would she like it to be? Etc.

Then do a rough estimate of the cost of what she wants. Don't forget the incidentals such as newspaper obituaries, death certificates, etc. If what she wants costs $10,000 and that is outrageous to her, then help her figure out how to make it cost less. Cremation instead of burial. No newspaper obituaries. Whatever. And when you get it to the bare minimum she finds acceptable, then you can address the "Most people have insurance to cover these expenses. How can we pay for it in your case?" question.

I'm afraid her answer is likely to be "You pay for it. I'm your mother and you owe me." Be gentle but firm in explaining your belief about that.

Your plan to set money aside (one way or another) for final expenses is a very good and important one. I hope you are able to convince Mom. And I hope there is some money left from the sale of the car that she could have as spending money.
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Mom has always been financially irresponsible....QVC, Belk, you name it. She has more clothes, shoes, costume jewelry and purses than Ivanna Trump! She is in poor health now, so additional insurance isn't even an option. I wasn't aware until recently that she'd cashed in most of her life insurance policies for "spending money." When she retired, she got a significant payout then my stepdad and later stepsister passed within 2 years of that, she went through the money like it was water! She has never planned for tomorrow, ever, so I guess that's why I do. She thinks it's unfair of me to want her to put the money back for HER final expenses. I have life insurance on myself, plenty of it. My family will not have to worry about paying for anything out of pocket when I pass, so why is it too much for me to expect her to contribute? As it is I will have to sell (yard sale, no real property) everything she has to cover some of the costs...I'm very frustrated right now.
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the funeral business is a complete joke to me based on unfounded belief systems and superstition. dont mean to sound insensitive but im an insensitive person. " whats best for your loved one " . what a freakin joke. they are dead, there is no good, better or best. my mother insists on being embalmed so theres no risk of her waking up in a coffin. * sigh *. couldnt we just bury her with a 15 dollar tract phone? the funeral business is in a world of hurt because a couple of current generations would prefer to be eaten by pirrahna fish. i know im one of them..
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Go halves on it or give her part of it for her spending but invest the rest as you recommend...now if Mom has just always been short-sighted financially, well, her bad decisions are hers to make; if she is losing math and judgement skills due to early cognitive impariment, here's hoping you have DPOA or can get it as someone will likely need to take over fairly soon. You don't mention her age or her health status; watch out, some of the burial insurance policies they will actually sell to seniors who are likely to use them soon are likely to be total rip offs, and the legitimate ones will require several years of fully funding them first.

Either way, it's a small blessing she is willing to give up the car! My mom wasn't - she would never drive it, but just thought it was a nice car and didn't want it sold, but I more or less had to or else I would have been paying all the expenses and upkeep on it while it sat in the driveway between my visits (no room in garage, that's another story...) and I just never told her...I had to quietly collect my mom's QVC card too or else she would have spend several hunderd dollars a month on "stuff" we already had more of than we could even give away...well, let us know what happens with all that, everyone's experience has its own nuances, twists and turns and there is always more to learn.
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