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Perhaps nice for small families with little children, but a minefield for many extended families, let alone the lonely.


‘Halloween’ (All Hallows Eve) in the religious calendar is for remembering the dead, the saints and martyrs – probably mixed up with the end of summer, harvest home, and pre-Christian festivals for those things too. Turning it into lollies and vandalism is not in anyone’s interests, certainly not for children, their behaviour, their teeth or their nutrition.


‘Thanksgiving’ was the Harvest Festival, when the Pilgrim Fathers had survived a summer with enough food to last through the winter. In a nation with serious obesity problems, a festival based on lots of food surely deserves a re-think.


‘Christmas’ is the time for celebrating the birth of Jesus. It has been overtaken by gift buying (and of course more food). If you actually read the New Testament, the three wise men who came from the East were not at the crib in Bethlehem with their presents. They went first to Herod, who sent them off to find the ‘young child’. When they didn’t return promptly, Herod ordered the slaughter of the innocents, all boys under two. An accurate celebration might mean waiting a couple of years to hand over gold, frankincense or myrrh, then manage a mass murder of toddlers. This stupid suggestion is no sillier than plastic trees, glass baubles, electric lights, heaps of parcels that are often unwanted, and lots of alcohol.


I think what I am suggesting is to walk away from ‘celebrations’ that cause more problems than pleasure, to know what we value and want to celebrate, and pick a good way for that to work. At a minimum, to stop feeling guilty if things don’t work out like a good old fashioned ‘leave it to Beaver’ way.

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You make wonderful points! The holidays have become far too commercialized. They are filled with stress.

If relationships are complicated, getting together at the holidays are going to be a nightmare and not worth the hassle.
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Holidays have been commercialized for years and are becoming more so, in part b/c people respond to them, also in part b/c people themselves have become more materialistic.   And there's a lot of pressure to buy.    It's become a part of family holiday rituals.

Companies know how to manipulate people.  Look at FB, for example, and consider how many people participate and share all sorts of personal information which can be sorted, packaged and sold to commercial entities.   Google does the same thing.   

Companies with this kind of "ethic", or better yet lack of ethic, aren't going to give up lucrative data gathering, nor are retaierls going to give up manipulating the public to spend more.

Back in 1991 when I took another French class, my instructor told me that the French retailers and businesses weren't allowed to have sales as we've become accustomed to them.  Sales were allowed either once or twice a year.    Our freewheeling retail segments drive holiday sales and expenditures.  

There are still people who extend their support to others, such as the man who for years has sponsored free meals through the SA for people in need.   That's only one example of someone who has true concern for others in mind, and what I'd consider not only a holiday spirit but a human spirit for understanding and compassion, which IMO really transcends any religious holiday and should be a basic human trait.    But there are many people who lack compassion and focus only on themselves.    And this occurs at the highest levels.  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-business-man-donates-thanksgiving-meals-to-15k-people-at-salvation-army-report/ar-BBXtj3B?ocid=spartandhp

That man is an inspiration, but there are plenty who are not and never will be.
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The glass is half full... or is it half empty?

Read a book years ago, Learned Optimism. How you see the glass really is a choice.

When we are stressed and/or depressed, it easy to see the glass half (or more) empty. We cannot control the world or others. We can control our response. We can criticize the holiday season or we can embrace the "real holiday" in our own heart and home.

Yesterday was Thanksgiving in my home and my glass was full. I am very thankful to be physically and financially able to host a meal and "leftover" treats, even if it does take careful planning and days to produce now. Since I have reached a point in life between aging and care giving where the extended family gathering of my youth doesn't happen anymore, I hosted a collection of people from family and the neighborhood who might have otherwise been alone. One was my brother; divorced with his children attending celebrations with SOs. One was a retiree with his children hundreds of miles away. One couple is in their 80s, their only child dead at 18 decades ago. My aunt and uncle came with their single son and granddaughters, the parents are both nurses working today. There was some sadness there too. This is the first year I did not send a plate to the MC for what dementia had left of my father. The old bachelor neighbor/character with kidney disease that shared the table in prior years passed last spring. Yet in the gathering of this group there was a congenial spirit, diverse conversation, the enjoyment of good basic food, friendship, and football. Everyone loved it when my 5 year old grand-nephew came by from next door to report on the progress of Thanksgiving dinner at his house and get something to eat because he just couldn't wait for it to be done and his mother had kicked him out of her kitchen. His older brothers followed, saying the family wasn't leaving for their father's in-law's home for another 2 hours.

I understand how care giving impacts our view of the holiday season. The isolation and depressing spirits of dealing with a LO's losses of physical and mental abilities make planning and participating in the season's activities anywhere from merely difficult to outright impossible. The sense of loss over the people who once shared this season and will never share it again weighs heavily. It can be difficult to even be around "normal" people. It's so tempting to see the glass more than half empty and drown any sense of contentment. More than once, I considered backing out of being a host this year or even marking the day. Maybe just the normal day's meal with Mom and my brother; maybe just some treats or desserts for the visiting kids? I wondered if my grandmother ever had those thoughts. Yet even as her physical condition deteriorated with advancing age, my favorite jumbles with the caramel icing only she could make were always there when I visited during the holidays. So I made the effort; in appreciation of my grandmother and for the memories of the kids who would pass through the house, for my mother who enjoyed the day although she probably won't remember it, for my brother who is still getting accustomed to being alone after 38 years of marriage, for the old couple down the road who wouldn't have any celebration if I didn't come through. I made the choice to accept something different and my glass was filled with the assorted presences in my home.
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Margaret, I think you'd like a chap called David Mitchell - writer and TV presenter among many other things (and married to the even more fabulous Victoria Coren, but that's a whole story on its own).

He lamented - you'd say fulminated, except he always speaks more in sorrow and bafflement than in anger - over various Christmas themes, but for him the insanity and nonsense of the festive season was summarised by two of its lead characters: the flying reindeer, juxtaposed with the stationary robin.

Well, I don't know though - the concept of Misrule has been part of the celebrations since the druids at least!
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margaret ,

i agree 100% with you . my obese supervisor got plum shtfaced with me on wednesday for having coffee and socializing at a company lunch as opposed to digging into a huge meal that i had no interest in . i think he will continue to show his distain and im not of a reputation to cower .
( most ) americans are so programmed that they treat anyone who doesnt go with the program as an outcast .

' most ' wouldnt think of missing the latest hollywood release . i wouldnt watch that crap at gunpoint .
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Captain I still believe in the silent majority who really do embrace the kind of values we grew up with - live and let live, work for what you need and share when you can. I may be deluded though.
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i worked for a rather high profile attorney in indy a few years ago . ( masonry ) .
he was so educated that i felt inferior and ' cloddish ' in his presence UNTIL i saw him waving his fist in the air and screaming at his tv set over a football play .

the things people value just amaze me .

margaret ,
its black friday in the usa . this aint going to correct your dim view of mass consumerism .

im going to the forest to cut yet another load of firewood today . i value not freezing to death in my own home .
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" pecking on their phones like a bunch of demented chickens " .

dont remember where i read that but its pretty dam comical .
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TnTechie, your response is a very emotional and passionate response, with practical and excellent insight and advice.

It also focused very much on rationality and common sense. 

Thanks for sharing those wise words.
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TNTechie gave a lovely response. It isn’t really that hard to see the beauty in the holidays just like it isn’t hard to see the ugly. But the ugly certainly gets more news coverage.

From a distance, most things can be made a little ridiculous... and it can be easy to reduce many holidays/religious events/cultural traditions to a comical version. The farther you are from something, the easier it is to reduce it to the point of caricature. I don’t mean the following in a nasty way, but we see this a lot with “in the US” comments. The US is a big place with MANY different sub/micro-cultures and sweeping statements about what people think here are always interesting. Looking at TV or the Internet, sure, I can see how many things can seem very shallow. I think that is more the medium than anything else. There is shallow here, certainly. And across decades, some trends are more worrisome than others when it comes to depth of thought, etc. I don’t love it either. But I also know every country has its junk... the US is in a fishbowl, sometimes by choice, sometimes by other factors... our junk is just highly visible:)

I think caregiving definitely reduces tolerance for shallow in general. Because we are surviving. And survival mode doesn’t make a good bedfellow with shallow, lol.

If asked, I think people would probably not say that the approach to the holidays is horrible when speaking about their immediate world (friends, family, community), but will say it about a larger group (millennials, the US in general, etc.) The greater distance (through time and place), the easier it is to generalize or view something as the “other”.

However, there is much beauty to accompany the ugly. Just as there has been in every time and place. Human condition, I suppose. The ugly is, unfortunately, in our face now much more than before. Screens put it front and center. The beauty is accessible, but kind of buried in an avalanche of communications that feed the human drive to watch the “train wreck” so to speak. We turn to the negative much more quickly than the positive, yet we yearn for the positive. A difficult turn of heart for most people, and one I know I work on daily.

”Perhaps nice for small families with little children, but a minefield for many extended families, let alone the lonely.”
Margaret, I think, hits the nail on the head with this comment. The costumes, overeating, and baubles are what is visible and easy to articulate. The underlying heart issues and loneliness, the family blow-ups, the stress from money issues, most of these problems come to a head at the holidays, which sets up the perfect environment for that minefield. I’d imagine none of these things are specific to one country. And they are hard issues, and they are sad.

We, too, open our home to a blend of people that lift us up and that need to be lifted up. And TnTechie’s response has helped me to double down in my own heart on how to bring forth the beauty. Thanks for that:)
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MargaretMcKen - Yes, stop feeling guilty if things don't work out like Leave It To Beaver is something I totally agree with. It is so liberating to let go of that.
TNTechie - great response. The day after Thanksgiving has made me reflect on so much. Your post re-focused me in a very good direction. Thank you!
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l like the crowds and the fun. I enjoy the cooking, the kids, the people I haven’t seen ‘for awhile. I didn’t get to go yesterday because of dialysis. I missed everything. I was the only one of 57 who didn’t make it. We’re not perfect and I’m sure there were a couple of little spats over something. We’re noT a Leave iT to Bever Family. We invite everyone. Former spouses, former in-laws, friends who have no place to go. Colleges students who don’t have the money to go home. My deceased husband had some ground rules. 1. Cell phones are left in a basket at the door. 2. No alcoholic beverages of any kind. 3. if you don’t have something nice to say, keep your mouth shut. 4. Park your ego, snarky remarks and your temper at the door and all of your four letter words. 5. Leave any fuses you’re involved in at the door. Don’t spend time trying to get someone one your side. 6. If you know you’ve hurt someone’s feelings, apologize and move on. He believed there was nothing more important than family and t8hatmfor holidays everyone could put aside their personal feelings and enjoy the day. Christmas will be even bigger this year.and it lasts Christmas Eve and all Christmas Day. I’m hoping I’ll will be able to go for both da-ya>
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From A Distance
(maybe a little further away and at Becky's home)

"From a distance the world looks blue and green
And the snow capped mountains white
From a distance the ocean meets the stream
And the eagle takes to flight

From a distance there is harmony
And it echoes through the land
It's the voice of hope, it's the voice of peace
It's the voice of every man

From a distance we all have enough
And no one is in need
There are no guns, no bombs, no diseases
No hungry mouths to feed

From a distance we are instruments
Marching in a common band
Playing songs of hope, playing songs of peace
They're the songs of every man

God is watching us, God is watching us
God is watching us from a distance

From a distance you look like my friend
Even though we are at war
From a distance I can't comprehend
What all this war is for

From a distance there is harmony
And it echoes through the land
It's the hope of hopes; it's the love of loves
It's the heart of every man

It's the hope of hopes, it's the love of loves
It's the song of every man

as sung by Bette Midler
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bullsplat to the last several commenters .
look closely at the ' needy ' and figure out why theyre needy .
let me give you an example ; a younger friend of mine , lets call him " mick " , found himself in need one time between jobs and walked with lunchmeat and bread from a local grocer -- his family wasnt going without .

directly after telling me this i saw his wife walk out the door one evening with a kitchen fork full of " bogus " fried up pork chops to give to the dogs .
those chops would have easily made breakfast gravy for 5 or so people the next day .

people blow . charity my @ss . my family suffered to have any kind of presents under the tree for our sons while the " needy " had christmas 5 fn times .

re ; mick . id have ate the gd dogs -- thats how i roll .
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On the one hand, many foreigners make Americans feel like we should be apologizing for our lifestyles and feeling ashamed of ourselves for all of our 'excesses'.

On the other hand, the line is endless for these same foreigners to come to the great land of America, even if it means they die in the process of getting here.

I may choose to walk away from some of the celebrations that can cause more problems than pleasure, but I am forever thankful for the opportunity to HAVE those celebrations and the freedom to practice them in whatever way I choose.
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Eating dogs? Captain? Really?

I think like everything in life it's how you perceive it. You could put five, ten, fifty, a thousand people in the middle of a Christmas card setting and they'd all see it differently. How we view the world is how the world has treated us or how we think the world has treated us.

If I'm in a really good mood, feeling great inside and out I can go to a mall at Christmas time and have the time of my life. Buy myself a new lipstick, sit on a bench with a latte and smile at it all. Or the alternative. I can go there when I'm feeling sore, tired and depressed and want to shake my fist at everyone.

The true meaning of Christmas is something different to everyone isn't it. It's supposed to be a celebration of the birth of Christ to those who believe. December 25th isn't really the day Jesus was born. I've heard different variations of when that was exactly. I think if you are a true person of faith you celebrate Jesus every day right?

I've been pretty vocal on the subject of my family and how I dislike get-togethers but that could be any day, not just Christmas time. But I agree it's nice that people donate more to needy causes at Christmas time. There's that.
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Well, if there is harmony then the holidays can be wonderful. If there is heartbreak they can be miserable and it is better to avoid the crazy relatives.

Holidays have lost their true meaning over the years. Yes, all holidays represent something. Much of it is far too commercialized and has strayed from their original purpose.

It’s sad that so many are depressed and suicidal at this time of year. I have lost friends and family members to suicide and it is devastating. I would never criticize anyone with depression. I get down too. There are valid reasons for depression.

Holidays can be very meaningful in the community. We helped do prep work and served the homeless. We have our sections of the city where the homeless congregate.

I was never able to participate in holiday volunteering before because of caring for mom. It was nice to be able to pitch in this year with my husband and children.

The police have been leaving the homeless alone for the most part. We’ve had issues in the past but I have seen that as long as no problems arise they aren’t being chased off.

There have been several tents donated to them. My daughters and I buy feminine products at the drugstore nearby to bring to the women. Helping others has to be year round and not only during the holiday season. So many people live from paycheck to paycheck, so it very easy to become homeless if they are hit with unexpected expenses.

I did not cook! I took a break from cooking and our immediate family went out for a meal later in the day. We had evening reservations because we wanted to volunteer earlier.

I cooked for years and hosted obnoxious family members. When I stopped hosting dinners my immediate family was so glad. My husband and daughters hated all of the BS.

I cook all the time so there hasn’t been a shortage of good food in my home.
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" i think like everything in life it's how you perceive it. You could put five, ten, fifty, a thousand people in the middle of a Christmas card setting and they'd all see it differently. "

even the guy who would eat the dogs .

make up your friggin mind . is it cool that were all different or isnt it ? ..
:)>
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Oh calm down Cap! :)
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you know this rabblerousing dont pay sht .
i do it from the goodness of my heart .

it aint even a tax deductible charity .
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Don’t you think it’s funny how we have a ‘national day’ for everything?

It’s entertaining at least! Kind of ridiculous too. But there is a day that everything is recognized. What a marketing strategy, huh?

National donut day

Wine day! Okay, I’ll bite for that one! Specials on wine!

Coffee Day, ‘Why yes, I will take a free cup of coffee!’ They know people will buy a pastry to go with that coffee. Hahaha

Ice cream day!

The list goes on and on.
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Just keep being you Cap. Just don't come after my cats! You'd eat cats too right? You don't discriminate............
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I agree, tacy. If you know where to look there are many worthy charities. I have donated and collected donations from others to deliver to the women’s shelters here too.
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Gershun,

My cat was an attack cat! She was loving, sweet and gentle, but let a dog step into my yard and my brave cat would chase them off! First time I saw her do that I was shocked.

She was quite intimidating to a dog or she didn’t meet her match. The dogs she encountered were wusses because they ran off with their tail between their legs. So funny! My neighbors would call her the neighborhood attack cat.

The little dog that I owned, mini schnauzer, thought she was a giant dog and was the sassiest thing! My big dog, that I owned, a rescued greyhound was a big baby and ran away from my daughter’s toy French poodle. Hahaha

Animals are so funny. Each has their own personality.
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" crockpot cats ? "

yea i know there are some genuinely disadvantaged people in this world . theres a lot of assclowns too .

the freedom challenged i work with all feel nitpicked by the courts too -- but -- they are forgetting that i know how to read . their official charges have been reduced to the most serious charge but a closer look at different public records will show all kinds of dropped charges and general ' failure to repair ' -- along with a history of recidivism .

they aint putting people in prison for singing too loud in the church choir .
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ive been thrown in jail 3 times in my life . if i were the cop I'D have thrown me in jail .

no hard feelings from me . no blameshifting , no half truths , lies of omission , etc .

i once told my probation officer that dollar for dollar probation is cheaper than therapy -- so -- lets do this sht -- .

told another that i was gonna go out to the hatchery and fk fish for community service . he bout spit his teeth out on the desk .

ahhh , good times ..,.
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My kids and their families seldom come to our house Christmas. We live hours away, and there are others they would rather be with. It saddens me, but I don't want them to come either if that's how they really feel. But they know I love them anyway.

In the weeks before Christmas you won't find Dear Husband and I in crowded parking lots wandering through malls and stores. I get a single token gift (inexpensive but thoughtfully chosen, purchased locally or online ) for my children and grandchildren. Dear Husband and I do not exchange gifts. I put up an eensy 12" Christmas tree and a tiny lit garland in the entrance area of our house. I send out dozen Christmas cards and get back 2. Doesn't matter. I love sending Christmas cards. Some years if I feel like it, I'll bake a few goodies to give to friends and neighbors. We listen to classical Christmas music to celebrate the reason for the season, which warms my soul like nothing else. Christmas eve we'll watch a favorite holiday-themed movie. On the big day, Dear Husband and I have a small home-cooked meal together with a pumpkin pie. Later we might bundle up and take a walk.

This is our Christmas now, 21st Century style. No, it's not 1962 with a Douglas fir sweeping the ceiling, loads of gifts, 40 Christmas cards and a big family dinner. On the other hand, there's no stress, no big expense, or days of decorating to put up and take down. Just simple Christmas joys.

Merry Christmas to all who celebrate the birth of Christ.
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You’re on a roll, Captain!

Captain, sadly there are false accusations but you are smart enough to know that there is also horrible abuse as well.

What you just described is true in some cases and happened recently over a football game! My daughter attends LSU. For the first time in eight years LSU beat Bama. Well, a Bama fan and an LSU fan got into it.

First of all, those schools are huge rivals. Nick Sabin used to be LSU’s coach before going with Bama. There is always tension at their games. My daughter sells her tickets for that game, makes a ton of money and stays out of the chaos.

There was a tragic ending after this year’s game. The Bama guy killed the LSU guy who had a fiancé and a young child. How horrible is that? Then what did the Bama guy do? Punched himself hard in the eye to make it look like self defense. Didn’t work! The guy is charged with murder!

Insane to kill someone in the first place! Even more insane to kill someone over a football game!

Hey, I am glad the New Orleans Saints beat the Falcons yesterday but I can’t imagine killing over loosing a game. It’s a freakin game! How can someone take someone’s life over a game? Just crazy!
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im listening .
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Tacy,

I just said that I know there is abuse and I have volunteered with shelters too. But I do know that sadly, there are false accusations too. Hopefully, they are rare.

All of us know people who have been abused or abused ourselves. I absolutely did not deny that.

There are two sides though. Nothing wrong with pointing that out. Not saying it’s true with the woman that you are helping. I think it’s wonderful that you are helping her.

I can’t stand when women falsely accuse a man. Firstly because it’s wrong to do that to a man. Secondly, it makes it a million times harder for women who truly were abused to be believed. It’s terrible all around.
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