The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

We are in a cold snap it was 3 degrees when I got up this morning-my son had an auto car starter put in my car today-I am so excited-it may be -3 tomarrow.

oh emjo, that is so funny thinking oh great it will be my mother who live to 1000 yrs, isn't that how things seem to work out sometimes :)

hi all...thankful to read everyone's comments on different threads. I've been just okay. Mom & I are just in a very difficult place. No diagnosis for her. No outlet for me. I'm spending more time in my room to keep from frustration. I'm not eating. Mom had appt to the doctor on Tuesday that I fought for her to make. She's been complaining about her hip hurting for over two months. Im afraid she may had a fracture from osteoparosis. The docter ordered a series of tests that we did today. She had to fast and takes her like 3 hrs to get ready. What do I find-- her playing solitaire when we should be leaving! Of course Im in a huff thinking, "oh no, there's nothing wrong with this picture". Then she had misplaced her paperwork for the ordered tests! I had to look everywhere and finally found them in the refrigerator. She had gotten a bottle water and forgot. Of course we were late, it made me frantic and my mom knows she did wrong, but wouldn't say a word. Part of me hopes they find something in the tests that will relieve me. How awful is that to say! The other part just wishes I wasn't here. I'm trying very hard to be positive and have been the last two years. It's just not normal to be a shut-in. It's not normal to only go to the doctors, grocery store, pharmacy. It's not normal to stay in your room like a child that's done something wrong when you're 50. I was taking care of everything until she started to feel "not in control" of her life. I can understand wanting to snag some of the things she can do back. But now we are totally the opposite direction! The arguments are everyday. It can be sparked in a second over a news program, the weather, you name it. Then she brings out the big guns if she feels like she's loosing and brings up weird stuff..like I had planned all of this, so i could get her house. I'm like what?! How can someone plan arguments for over six to ten years, to own a house, that until 2009 we didn't own? I ask you? Until the medical community finds something I am totally afraid that this will be it for me. There is no way out and no one to help out. Its not fair that I have to live like this. And it wasn't my choice regardless what the darn therapist says. Let her change a couple hundred Depends, elbows high in urine filled sheets, television so loud you cant think, and repeating everything you say 4x. Ms. Therapist would have a different tune. I will not be able to last another year if this continues...but im trying to hang in there... forgive me, im sounding like a broken record again. Making it to 80 is tough enough...1000 no thanks..lol

* "hugs" that is :)

Hi sharyn - things are really moving in your life. I have been reading some of your posts on different threads. I think you are doing so well. I agree with austin that your mum needs to be placed. Things that are happening right now are hard on everyone - if you get in-home care there will be a big adjusment there, and then another big adjustment when she has to be moved again. With your mother's personality disorder she may well have trouble with the in home care workers, and also with a staff in a facility, but it will be spread out among more people. We had a 24/7 live in senior nanny for my mother. It was too hard on the nanny, Mother has had problems with the ALF staff too, but it seems to work out. Did you ever hear from APS? I have wondered if that phone call that upset your mother came from them. I am sorry that your sis is not more cooperative. Take deep breaths, You are doing fine. What is the worst that could happen to your mother? Really, you are taking very good care of her. You have said you are very empathetic and get upset when you see someone else upset however, you can't afford to let your mother's confusion and tears affect you too much. Think of her as a child. I do understand your feelings of ermpathy, and have had to work on myself so this does not drive my behaviours unwisely. This is your mum's journey and no one can walk it for her. We each have our own journeys, with the highs and the lows. Your mum is very fortunate to have you as her daughter, looking out for her. This is a time of transition, and anxiety will be present as you are looking at some big changes. I am glad the neurologist's visit is not too far off - a couple of weeks plus... Count down the days, breathe deep. Presumably the neurologist will make some recommendation regarding the kind of care your mum needs. Meanwhile, your mum will get upset about something, whether it is phone calls, mail, or whatever. You can't protect her from everything. And she gets through it and over it.
Keep on hanging in there, and RELAX. You are doing fine.

book - how are things at your house?

jerlisha - glad you are getting away - you need to plan more of that! 13 years is too long without a break!!!

Jessie - my story - the one like yours - is that the summer when I turned 16, and we were with family at my grandfather's cabin, an aunt drew me aside and told me that they all knew it was difficult for me because of my mother, that she had always been like she was, and that of there was anything they could do to help they would. I don't believe they said anything to my sister, who was the "golden child". Over the years, that meant so much to me. It was an early statement that it wasn't me -not my fault, though my mother gave me the message very strongly as a child that most things that were wrong in her life were my fault -or my father's. It was a Godsend!

alabama -wondering how you are, and what has happened re the court decision. Like you, I am about ready to walk away from it all. I am executor and would not be suprised if, when mother dies, my sister takes me to court. For years, she has planned to get all the inheritance.

envision -only you can stop you from being taken advantage of. I know it is a hard lesson, but focussing more on you and your needs is healthy -just say "No"

austin - looks like you are up and at it again! Good.

hollis - how are things going?

joymoon - sometimes we have to draw some pretty firm boundaries with our children - no fun, but neceaary

cmag - looks like yoir wife is on the way to becoming independent again!!!

capn - sounds like you have things worked out well with your mum. I think they need someone firm, and I totally agree -she should do as much as she can on her own. My mother is a physiotherapist and we were brought up to do for ourselves. She is reaping the benefit of that now. I remind her of that and urge her to do as much for herself as she can. She has told me that she can do more than she thinks she can! I don't buy the helpless act very often.

Margeaux - you have some good insights - yes the relatives will put things aside for a while, if they think they need us, or can use us. It is something to be aware of. Also they will accept no responsibility for trouble that they have started. It is always someone else's fault.

However I have forgotten - not intentional -chalk it up to a stuffed up head due to the cold. I am taking everything I can think of to get rid of it.

I just got over one cold and looks like I have another one -G came home with one yesterday. Aaaargh.

My friend had her surgery Tuesday, and got through it well. They took two lymph nodes neither of which showed any metastases, so it looks like she will be OK.

I just about had a bird when i read what a well known researcher on aging -Aubrey De Grey - wrote: "the first human who will live up to 1,000 years is probably already alive now," My first thought was "Oh Lord, that will be mother." She has made it to 100 already. It was enough to depress anyone. My seond thought was that I would have to be the second person to live that long, so I could have some peace on this earth. LOL - I can't imagine!!!

Take care every one. Remember you are at least as important anyone else, and you are more responsible for looking after you, than anyone else is.
♥, higs and prayers - Joan

Book~No problem with copying the hot case story...it was hilarious especially since she was so serious when she said it. I laughed quite hard and she still only gave me a slight grin as her humor is very dry!! The story with the pickles and peppers is actually quite common and easy to combine the two words into one.

We have an appt. with the neurologist on Feb. 11. It's the earliest we can get in. No matter if I am working or not I go to mom's in the afternoon to give her the medicine and I take all the junk mail with me. Yesterday I had to be at work at 4pm . so I had to go to her house before the mail was delivered. Just hanging in there until we get things put in place.

Sharyn, FYI...I hope you don't mind but I copied and pasted your "hot case" story to my FUNNY-AC file. Sometimes, when I feel down and need a laugh, I go to this file and re-read funnies that made me laugh. Thanks!

Ohhh, Sharyn, I laughed out loud on the 'hot case' one! You should try putting that (word for word) to Reader's Digest. If they publish it, they pay you a small amount of $$.

As for your mom, she definitely is getting worse. Too bad you don't "pick up" her mail at the post office. This way you can automatically junk the junk mail. I've had to do that with father's mail. If he had all those junk mail, he would be ordering left and right - no matter the cost. He can spend over $200 on one herbal catalog. He orders all these pills, and then it sits in the cabinet expiring.

The scary part is if she's afraid to be by herself at nights, you may need to brainstorm on that. I hesitate to say this but you may have to do this to calm her panic. Problem is - in her dementia - she will end up accusing you of stealing things and kick you out (and if you refuse because it's night time- she might become violent).... or... she may start to think that you DO live there and when you stop spending the night - it will confuse her. I don't know what to say....What if your mom is scared of staying by herself, will she leave the apartment to "get away" from it? My mom started "wandering" at nights. We all took off in different directions looking for her. Finally, father had to add 2 different locks on the kitchen doors, the door between the kitchen/living room, and the livingroom door. She was able to unlock 2 out of 3. HUGS!!! to you.

Envision -- I spend most of my life caregiving. Yet family who earns much more than me (I only make $24,000/year) come to me for money. I spend most time at work/home I have no where to spend my money. Yet these people make over $17/hour and are always broke. I resent it very much. My fault for not knowing how to say NO.

I am happy you liked my story envision!! I have a couple more to share. The other day a customer came up to the hot case (I work in a bakery/deli for a grocery story) and another customer came up to the deli case. I asked my co-worker if she could help the customer at the hot case. I walked over to the woman at the deli counter saying "How can I help you?" She said very stoically...I guess I'm your "cold case."

Another day a customer and her friend came in (probably in their early 40's) around 8pm. One lady wanted a sandwich. As I was making the sandwich, I asked her if she wanted, lettuce, tomato, onions, pickles and peppers. She said I want lettuce, tomato, onions and peckers, Lol!! We laughed and she so was embarrassed about it but she wasn't uptight about it. Her friend pulled out her cell phone saying I am going to facebook it. Quit my job...no way!!!

sharynmarie, funny story... thanks for the laugh! and to bookworm, you are sooooo right, "your job is your sanity", i gave up my career over 10 years ago, because of my son's disability and have been the family care taker of all the "crazy difficult" people in my family ever since. no one respects me or my time, it is just a given that i will be available for any and ALL family needs. and then if i need any extra money for anything, the people with jobs and 401k's, have all the power to just say NO! i don't regret all the love and time i have spent with my family, but i do regret not being able to help my children and grandchildren financially.

Book~I thought I wasn't going to have time to post for a few days, but I am needing the site like a life line right now until we things settled. Waiting for sis to make the appt. with neurologist and I told her to please make it asap because I am on pins and needles everyday with my mom. She called yesterday in a panic, said she was scared to death to be alone for the night cuz a letter she got advertising insurance.The last 2 days she calls me right before I have to go to work with some crisis. I am off today but will be leaving shortly to go over her house. My job is my sanity and comic relief. Yesterday when I went in to work, a fabric softener sheet fell out of my pant leg...then my co-worker told us her husband always wears cargo shorts with the velcro fasteners on the pockets. He was walking to his truck one day and felt something different with one pocket, he looked down and it was his daughter's thong stuck to the velcro. OMG...we laughed so hard!! At least he caught it before he walked in a store with it hanging on his pants! I just have to get through the 2-3 weeks, hopefully we won't have to wait 2-3 weeks just to get her into the neurologist. I don't know how long it will take for her LTC policy to then send someone out to evaluate her to determine if she qualifies for home health care. Gotta go!! Hugs to everyone!

Sharyn – regarding your mother and forwarding the phone. Technically for you to forward the call to you is wrong. Until mom is declared incompetent, then the phone call should still go to her. Don’t start blurring the lines between her Rights and what you think is best for her. It’s a very easy line to cross. Once you cross it, you will start applying it to Other stuff. Best to avoid crossing that line. I know that you worry about her but…until she’s still legally competent, you need to respect her rights. BUT, our old phone would have all these numbers of who called and the dates. I can’t figure it out with the new phone we have. But, when father would tell me – like days later – that someone called, I would press the button and keep scrolling backwards until I found unknown numbers. Then I would call each one to determine the caller. Does your mom’s phone have this capability?

Best to keep your answers of family life to your boss as simple as possible. The more elaborate or detailed you get, the likelihood you get caught and you end up looking bad. Maybe? The next time the boss brings it up, just tell her that mom’s situation is ever changing. When the time comes when you definitely need several weeks off to get her stuff in order, then you will apply for family leave (or whatever it’s called.) Remember, keep it simple but Vague! Once you start giving details, you are easily tripped. And you’re not telling a lie. Mom’s situation IS continually changing, and eventually You WILL be needing those leaves. You’re just waiting until you need it. Keep it simple.

And I definitely do NOT recommend you giving up your job for mom. You know from this site that there are alternatives. Your job is your sanity. Plus, like Austin said, with the economy as it is – it would be very difficult to find a steady job again.

Hi Margeaux and Cmag, Emjo and Envision, and everyone I have not mentioned!

I got to be the caregiver because I live with her. My sister lives 75 miles away. If only she would visit once a month would be a god send. Maybe a doctor's appt (I am dreaming). I am planning my first vacation in 13 years (going away for 3 days). Do you think she will take over....not

Sharynmarie,

My sister has also been assigned the DPOA, then she is the one who moved in w/mom. At times when I've been wondering about whether mom should be given certain medications for ALZ, if ever I've tried bringing this up to my sister, by her response, it is made known to me, it's been taken care of.
But I wonder about that, since my sister really can't even tell me what stage of the ALZ mom is in. I honestly don't think she has ever researched it, even when I've suggested various websites to her.
During I think it was Thanksgiving, when I asked mom how she was feeling, because she was complaining about pain in her back. She has had pain for the last several years from a fall she had. So I asked/suggested maybe I could bring some aromatherapy oil, I've used, and give her a delicate massage. My sister's reply was, "oh, the caregivers already do that for her." So you see, she w/put up any and all road blocks whenever I've expressed concern about mom's ailments or medications.. I know why she responds to me in that manner also, because she wants total control of the situation.
Well, at some point since you seem to be the one who is ready, willing and able to be there when your mom needs you, your sister may want to give this some serious thought. But I totally get it, she sounds very much like my sister in that they cannot seem to relinquish some of the control.
I think people who control will always place their needs over anyone else's.
When my aunt died a year ago, mom hardly had been out of the house much, because my aunt went into Hospice there at mom's. So mom's mobility took a serious dive. Just a few weeks later, when I'd call my sister on weekends to check in on mom, she'd tell me of these 3 hour, or all day shopping trips she and my mom were on. Then, I expressed concern as to whether mom was up for this, I mean she is 91 yrs. old too. Even then, my sister was saying, that things were going to change now, w/mom since her narcissistic sister was out of the picture.
Well, it took probably no more than a couple mos., for my sister to start complaining that when she'd take mom out like this, that mom moves slowly, that she really couldn't get her errands done like SHE wanted to, etc. Now my sister has become way more discerning as to what and where she can take mother.
But bottom line, I think sometimes my sister does this in an attempt to recapture something we didn't have w/our mother while mom's sister was alive, because they were always together.
Well the good thing about you realizing all of this, is that you are aware.
This I think is priceless, in that we can hopefully move forward and keep our elder's best interest at heart. That is what you are doing! Much Love, and Hugs! Margeaux

Margeaux~ I am being very careful at work in regards to not saying anything about my mother. My mother doesn't call me at work and like I said, I have so far only called off on day which was back in October when she cancelled her phone service. My boss was on vacation at the time so to my knowledge she doesn't know about it. My bosses concern is that family to taken care of first, and hopefully nothing extreme will come up in the next couple weeks while we wait to get my mom in to the neurologist. My sis said that the neurologists office called her today to make an appt. so mom's PCP already sent the referral and history to him. I am happy about that because I am a little on pins and needles with my mom being by herself too much. As of this Friday, my boss will be on vacation for 2 weeks. As far as forwarding my mother's calls, my sister was against and so were a couple others (no one on this site) who felt I was violating her rights. I see nothing wrong with it if it is in my mother's best interest to determine if she is actually hallucinating or confused. I believe that when we are taking care of a person, looking out for their best interest, we somethings have to cross those boundaries to better help them, keep them safe and reduce their fears. Yes I do have enough to deal with and worry about right now and when my sister won't answer her phone, it makes me very angry. She is named first on the DPOA and she wants to call the shots as far as making things convenient for herself (she has always been like this), but she doesn't make herself readily available to talk with me when she isn't feeling well, etc. and we need to be available to each other in regards to the situation with our mother. What is sad is that yesterday my sister told me, she would never be able to forgive our mother for the abuse from our childhood. IMO, she is not always putting our mother's best interest at heart because of her anger and pain. Thanks for letting me vent, Lol!! I hope all is well with you. Hugs to you Margeaux!!

Joan~How are you doing? I hope you are well, not having a lot of pain with the fibromyalgia. I know you are grieving the loss of your dear friend. I am thinking about you. Hugs
Cmag, Envision, Joymoon, and Alabama,Book, and everyone...I am thinking of you all as well. Hugs

Sharynmarie,

If you think your mom can no longer make sense of her phone calls,
I notice you've said, "everyone, seems to think it not a good ideat, about forwarding calls" Who is everyone? I see nothing wrong in doing this, since this way you'd be able to see what's truth vs. possible misinterpretations by your mom.
Besides you could even do this on a temporary basis if need be.
Do you sense that your mom is actually aware of her decline? I ask this because when our mom was first diagnosed w/Alz, it was rather hard to decipher some of what was happening, especially while none of us were living there daily with her so that we had the upper hand in monitoring what was actually true.
She at first seemed somewhat obsessed about playing with crossword puzzles.
Poor thing, I think this was some attempt on her part to try to keep the Alz, at bay.
But since some of this monitoring of her incoming calls also has to do with she being more at ease, (especially she believing they will get her out of her own home). Anyway, it could save you a lot of time and energy also about wondering and worrying. You have enough to do already.
O.K., and I completely agree with Austin's advice about your manager.
Just be aware. Much Love & Light, thinking about you! Margeaux

Austin~My boss questioned me a week or so ago because she being a Christian, wanted to let me know that no job was really worth sacrificing the care of a loved one. She said that if I needed to take some time off either using my sick leave or some other type of leave to do it because family comes first. I can't afford to lose my job and so far, I have not had to call of work or leave work for her care. We have been able to keep things covered between me, my sister and my brother. I don't want her to use this as a way of making things difficult for me at work so what I told her was not the complete truth. My boss wanted me to think about not having regrets later if I was not there for my mother. She doesn't know my family dynamics with all the abuse regarding my mother and I have been there and still am there, but giving up my job to care for her full time would end up destroying my mental health and possibly my marriage. Hugs to you!!

I have a narcisstic mother and I have not seen her or talked to her for 2 weeks. I just can't take the abuse-emotional- any more. I am a 3 year cancer survivor-lung cancer- and went for a scan today. I find out the results on the 28th. That is about all the stress I can handle at this time. I really don't think I will ever go see my mother or talk to her again. It is making my depression and anxiety worse and is also taking a toll physically. I have lost 25 pounds in 3 weeks. Not what the cancer Dr. will be happy about.

Sharynmarie,

That was a good story about your friend. That is quite a bit of control on his part, especially concerning the money she earns. A situation as such, having a positive outcome, is rare. Yes, maybe in some instances, many husbands/partners wouldn't have put up withe the wife putting her foot down. But maybe many wives wouldn't put up w/this kind of control by a husband either, especially for that long. I'm happy for your friend, that she had the courage to stand up for herself. I cannot imagine what she must have felt like as a person those first 10 years. Oh, and his parents, aren't they a lovely lot! Surely, the husband picked up some bad habits from someone.
Thanks, I love to hear people's stories. Much Love, Margeaux

Shary why did your boss bring up the subject of your mom-did another employee say something you may have memtioned to her or him during a break or is the boss insinuating you are using work time to deal with problems that might arise conserning your mom during work time and you said again so this must have happened other times is there a go to person for problems with your mom during your working hours jobs are hard to get theses days and you do not want problems with your job.

Hi to everyone!

It's very busy for me these days with my mother. The antidepressant seems to be calming her to a degree (I don't want her over medicated either) but I am happy with results. She has an appt. Wednesday morning to see her PCP so we can get a refill on the antidepressant. A week ago yesterday (Sunday), when I went over to give her the medicine she did not look well. As I talked with her, I realized she had been crying because she said she got a phone call from someone telling her she had to leave her house and could not live there anymore. I would like to have her calls forwarded to my phone for a week or two so I can find out if she is hallucinating or if she is just confused with the information from a business call, but everyone seems to think it would be wrong of me to do this so I haven't as yet.

My sister has been sick with bronchitis and sinus infection so no help from her last week or this week. I did finally make contact with her thru an email at sis's job since she won't answer her phone. I have been frustrated cuz she won't answer her phone and I didn't want to leave a message since I would be going to work and miss her call (she has caller ID but still wouldn't call back). The email message sent to her simply stated that we need to either hire home health care or get her evaluated by another dr. She responded back saying that mom's LTC policy requires that she be evaluated by a neurologist then they will sent someone out to mom's house to evaluate her activities of daily living (ADL) to determine if she qualifies for home health care under the policy. My hope is that we can do that next week, would rather do it this week but mom's PCP has to send a referral to the neurologist and her history before we can set up the appt. Helen called me saying mom had walked over to her house, she said mom was very disoriented, didn't know her SS# and other info that Helen quizzed her about. She went over to Helen's cuz she received a copy of beneficiary designations on her accounts with Charles Schwab. Mom didn't and doesn't understand what it means so she took it to Helen for her to explain it. These designations were assigned the same way as she did her Will with her elder law attorney. Now the papers are missing because my mom has hidden them somewhere in the house. I have no problem going to mom's daily giving her the medication, cooking for her on my days off and making extra to freeze for her, but on the days I do work, I can't control what she eats. I really think she makes corn flakes for dinner because she doesn't want to be bothered heating something up in the microwave and this is why she needs to either have home health care or be placed in a SNF. My boss brought the subject of my mom again and I told her I am not the only one caring for her. I said there is my brother, my sister and two nephews who are helping with her care, plus me cooking for her and freezing home cooked food for her. Not the complete truth, but hopefully we can see to it that she is not alone at any time sooner than later. Sorry for such a long post but I don't know when I can post again until things settle down. I am thinking of all of you and hope you are all doing well. Hugs to everyone!!

Margeaux~I have to tell you a story about a friend of mine. When she married, her husband wanted all the power and control. He controlled the finances, including her paycheck. He never over spent, he managed the money tightly on her end, but if the tv went out, he was out the door the same night to buy a new one. If she wanted something for herself and he had no interest in it, he wouldn't let her get it or he would tell her if she wanted it, she had to save up the money for it which she couldn't do because he controlled the money. If she wanted to incorporate a special holiday tradition from her childhood, she was told by her husband and his mother...that isn't our tradition. After 10 years of marriage, she put her foot down. She refused to give her paycheck to her husband and took control of her pay. She gave some of her family traditions during the holidays to their children by including them during the holidays. For them it worked out, it did take her husband many years to finally learn to compromise but he did learn. Of course his parents were not happy about it and treated her as an outsider from that point on but she was a much more confident, happier person and once her husband accepted it, their marriage started to grow as two adults sharing their life together instead of her being a little girl asking daddy for money to buy a new pair of work pants. I must admit that I don't think most marriages would have survived a wife putting her down like she did but it worked for them. They have been married 40 years now and to this day they both have separate checking and savings accounts. She pays certain bills and he pays certain bills. It allows both of them to save money for things they want personally, for family members, each other, and the house. They are the only couple I know of that does it this way. Hugs to you!!

Envision,

Oh, that is hard. It's hard enough when we must be exposed to people like this, who are at the bottom of it all extremely insecure. Then they think in their demented way that by giving their boyfriend , a prospective MIL or anyone all the messages they don't like, approve of you etc. It's especially hard once they've a child in the middle of it too, just complicates relationships, doesn't it? If this behavior is surfacing, and they're not even married, whoah! Well, I guess it's up to him what he must do on that end.
From witnessing my brother's reaction to our difficult SIL, they were married by the time the first daughter was born. Even when she had their second one, she really didn't share those girls with our family much. As I said before, they do live a distance from us, so that of course worked in her favor. But my brother and his wife never invited me to their house until I went just about a year ago with my sister. This is after a little over 20 yrs. of marriage. So in some kind of way, my brother has been instrumental in not encouraging we his family to come to their place either. So the guys in this picture, can either put their foot down, and they better do it sooner rather than later. But unfortunately as in my brother's case, he by his behavior didn't think it that important, just went along with her plan, even if in a silent and complicit way. I really feel the guys end up suffering in this, because wouldn't you think it drives home the point to their girlfriends/wives, that it's o.k. and gives their power over in the relationship to the women. He sounds like a good young man. I'm glad that your youngest is getting it together too.
Oh!! Yes, the birthdays of our departed loved ones can be hard.
Did you mom pass away recently. Each time it's my dad's birthday, I go through a rough patch. It's understandable. Well maybe you can create your own special tribute to your mother, like make her favorite foods, something like that.
O.K., Envision hang in there, you're in my thoughts! Much Love, Margeaux

It is just sad that at some point the elderly parent becomes the pawn that the evil sibling uses to beat us up again, just as we were beaten up as a child.

Hi Margeaux~Funny how every family has these issues with a sil or bil. It's a shame that they have to interfere with their spouses family creating problems because they want everything their way or by poisoning the minds of their children against other family members. Well take care and I hope you are doing well. Hugs to you!

Margeaux, It is so helpful to read your posts, because you are able to put into words the manipulation that I feel, but can't express in words. Both of my sons are growing, emotionaly, by leaps and bounds. My oldest son, 31 yrs, after a most horrible experience is starting to see how his fiance, with who he has a 2 year old son, is manipultive and trys to keep him away from his family. But really is just sad, because what is he to do? He has been very kind to me and tells me he loves me, when she is not around. My youngest is finally getting his life together, I am very proud of him. I have been crying for almost a week, because I miss my Mom so very much. I think it is because it is almost her birthday. Even when I worked full-time, I would always take a vacation day for her birthday, and take her to lunch or dinner and everyone that was around would get together for cake & ice cream. My Mom always made our birthdays like holidays. I am going to check out some support groups, soon I hope. But, I have anxiety attacks about going places sometime. Thank you, and everybody on this page for sharing. It helps me so much. :)

Envision,

Regarding, "They'll forego previous cruelties committed upon us," yes, I'm beginning to zero in on how the manipulation manifests in terms of behavior. In my sister's case, she has done the silent treatment to me over the years because she is jealous of me. It took me, a very long time to admit this to myself while I was growing up, because I'm just not as competitive as she is, nor do I have the need to control.. She does, and to an extreme. Prior to my aunt's death (a narcissist), my sister was in charge of her care until her death, exactly one year ago. So my sister needed a sounding board, (that's me) HAAH! So at some point, my sister dropped some of her distanced attitude with me. Why? Because she needed something, the moral support. In my particular case, this is the manipulative aspect.
It's taken a long time to realize how the manipulation can manifest. I'm growing tired of feeling like, "what they heck was that," w/some of the toxic people in my life. I think that it's very important for we who wish not to be a party to the dysfunction. really take a look at our own situations, and start to notice the patterns. One can learn so much by doing this.

How are things with you, Envision? How are those men behaving?
I sure hope they are being nice to you! Much Love, Margeaux

Margeaux, Wow, what an insight, "they'll forego previous cruelties committed upon us" it seems all they need is a common enemy of one kind or another.

In my humble opinion all families are dysfunctional one way or another because we are never taught when we are children to love ourselves and what loving oneself entitles: taking good care of ourselves mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. And we cannot blame the people who raised us because they did not know any better either. This is a problem that has evolved from the beginning because our main priority is survival. As long as our survival is not warranted everyone has to do whatever possible to assure that survival. Only after growing up and becoming conscious of our own selves we begin to take conscious awareness that eventually take us to grow and mature. Most human beings are immature and have many emotional issues that developed in infancy and were never properly addressed. This is the challenge we all face. We cannot change circumstances or people, but we can change how we look at things and how we respond to those circumstances and people. It takes a lot of work and effort but I am convinced is worth the effort.

Sharynmarie,

Sorry for some of my poor grammar, I'm still not quite awake.
Margeaux