The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Jessie-that article on not telling the doctor the truth was really good. I can see it my Mom, too. Dad showed me the blood from her "dry nose" on Sunday. There were dried streaks on the seat belt in the van. Even dripping from a runny nose does not account for what I saw. But what can I do but what until it happens again, and maybe again and again? She's been told a hundred ways that we all care, and want to help, but we can't make her tell the truth. Loss of independence is a big issue, especially when parents are difficult to start with.
Emjo-darn, I was spelling nar. by copying you. If you had typos, so do I! LOL Tonight Mom came and asked me what I was thinking for supper. I told her, nicely, we had it figured out. We're eating up frozen pizza rolls because there's too much snow for delivery. True colors came out a little while later when hubby made a joke about not saying things in front of the 'children.' She walked past me and said "We're the parents, not the children." Can't take a joke on a good day, can take it even less when I spoil her thunder by not doing dinner with her. I'm not surprised. If she pushes it, I'm going to tell her he was talking about the "furry" children - our dogs. Not my fault if she assumed it was about her or if she didn't like the joke.
Still praying for you and your wife, Cmag.

jessie - I am sure you are right about fear of losing independence.
You certainly do live in depressing circumstances. It must be very hard. I hope you get out for some "you" time -some activities away from that depressing environment just for you.
talking things out is great - helps a lot.
notlike - glad I could affirm whast you were thinking. I totally support you reclaiming your life.You can only change you, but sometimes others change a bit, once you have. And sometimes they don't. In any case you will be doing better. I expect there will be some challenges - narcissists don't give up easily, but if you stay firm you will succeed and she will settle down. Let us know and will will walk through it with you.
cmag - if you can get to a computer - thinking of you and your wife - prayers going out

It is great to have a place to talk about things. I know I'm not depressed, but I know I am in depressing circumstances. It is hard to live with miserable people knowing there is no way I can shake them out of the misery. Sometimes I can ease it for a moment, but it doesn't last longer than a sentence. My mother is fixated on her nerves, and my father doesn't realize the impact that his dour behavior has on others. Both are afraid to move, it seems -- perhaps because the slightest thing could upset their home-apple cart. A fall or a mental break could cost them their independence. (That was a very good article that was posted here a couple of days ago about not being truthful to doctors for fear it would cost the elders' independence. I think this applies to many things.)

Hi 4of8 - what a story!!!
Sorry your mum has had a stroke and was mistreated in an NH. There are many siblings who so not step up the bat, and take their turns. You are not alone in your frustrations. You do have some serious concerns. Does the POA not mean you (or whoeevr has it) can regulate what money is given away? That needs to happen apparently. I think it is shameful that your sibs have taken what they have, Good for you for straightening some things out with your mum present!

You say you are ready to walk away, that you have health issues, and that you are neglecting you husband and family. You are not alone there either, and it is a terrible place to be.

One thing I think you can count on is that your sibs will not change. They sound totally self centered. I would not worry about pleasing or displeasing them. It sounds like some boundaries need to be drawn to keep them in their places, and I would not even listen to requests for this and that. You can hang up the phone or ignore emails, or simply say you are not going to discuss it.

I am not clear on how much your stepdad can do for your mum, and how much help she needs more than he can give. If it is your mum's decision to return to her home, she will experience the consequences. It may not have been the wisest decision, but if she is coimpetent she can make it, There are ALFs where husband and wife can live together and recieve various levels of help. You cannot look after yourself and your family, and do more than a certain amount for your mum. Can you research alternatives for them and when you tell your mum you cannot keep going on like this, present her with some alternatives - like an ALF or home care coming in? There may be resources available in their community.You say you would have brought her to your home. That is a whole other kettle of fish and is very challenging for most.

Can you emotionally detach from your sibs? They seem to be causing a good deal of your stress. Detaching is not easy, but it helps a lot in these situations. I have detached from my sis, as I get nothing but trouble from her, and she has not been helpful. It makes life easier for me. What she thinks of me is her business, not mine, and does not affect how I think about myself. To detach you have to give up those hopes of having a positive "normal" relationship, and face the (often) unpleasant realities. This may sound cold and had towards the sibs, but really it is being self protective. I have one "sister" by blood, but many who were strangers at one point!

I am so glad that your husband is supportive.

Many ((((((((hugs)))))) are come back and vent some more and let us know how you are doing. if you fill out your profile people will get a better idea about your circumstances.
jo

JessieBelle ((((((hugs))))

What a horrible childhood. I know the "Don't upset Mother" part and the loneliness. I agree that you do not owe your parents, and it is a tribute to you that you have taken this on. "We are not the Waltons". Oh, yes!

I am sorry about the negative changes you are finding in yourself- waking up not looking forward to the day, not enjoying food, worry, anger, and the waiting mode. Are you sure there is no depression? There could be situational depression due to circumstances, and it seems to me there is enough going on in your life to affect you that way. You must be grieving the split with your husband as well as this big change in lifestyle and responsibilities. That is a lot going on in one life!

On the other hand thinking about starting a WOW group is positive.

Re the feeling of waiting for something - wonder if it would be worthwhile examining what it is you are waiting for - something to do with your hubby, something to do with your parents, something to do with you and your life. I have read that introspective, intuitive people can feel that way. Is this a new feeling for you since you came back the your parents home? I can imagine a few things I would be waiting for/wondering about in your situation (without knowing many details of it ). I would be wondering about: my marital relationship - you say you are separated but have not mentioned divorce, I would be wondering how long I will have to/ be able to caregive, I would be wondering what my future holds.

Big, big changes and losses in many ways - of your old lifestyle and triggers from your childhood of the loneliness and emptiness.

Let us know how you are doing and if you start that WOW group!

Have a good day - I think you will find that venting and sharing helps.

jo

Cmag-prayers for you and your wife. So many prayers that this turns out alright.
Middle-take a deep breath. We are with you. Sibs can complicate an already stressful situation. Sounds like you've been through alot. Can you call a family meeting? Having individual talks with sibs seems to be a big problem. Maybe you can lay it all out for everyone and have the group agree to a plan and some rules about costs and valuables. Hugs.
Emjo-thank you for the insight. it helps to know that you and cmag think I'm not crazy. You said what I was thinking, but didn't trust myself enough to believe. I will talk to Dad today on the way to the doctor and tell him we';re done with the dinner thing. As long as Mom is feeling well and I am not needed for hands-on care, I need to reclaim my life.

Another dysfunctional family...For the past 7 hours I have been playing over and over in my head another conversation with one of my 5 siblings. My mother had a stroke a little over a year ago that left her paralyzed on one side and she cannot speak. After 6 months of being in hospitals and mistreated in a nursing home I suggested to my stepfather that we obtain POA for her and convinced him to get my mom into rehab if I agreed to bring her to my home when she was discharged until we figured out the next step for her. He is 72 and I have 5 siblings’ ages from early 40's to early 50's. One sister agreed to come to my home while I worked and the others were to take turns on weekends, evenings or on their days off. Well needless to say if that actually happened I wouldn't be typing my frustrations to strangers right now. My mother insisted she return to the comfort of her own home so she did. My siblings seem to be taking the back seat more and more every day and somehow think my stepfather should take full responsibility for my mom and they give me the so what go ahead attitude if I want to care for her. They say they are doing what they can but it is more like they are doing what doesn't inconvenience them too much. They somehow convince my mom to give them something every time they do show up. Two of them owe her over $10K and she has been giving to them for as long as I can remember. My parents are not wealthy by any means and that money would cover many hours of care giving if they paid it back and if all siblings would spend at least 5 hours a week with her. Recently I told one sibling that no one should be taking anything from mom, well they have taken about all they can from her and I informed two other siblings that I was taking mom's jewelry to my house before it goes missing too and wouldn't you know just last week 2 siblings suggested putting her back in a nursing home stating that is what mom conveyed to them. The sad part is my mom still understands a lot of what is going on but is too confused to make many decisions on her own. So in front of one of the siblings I asked my mom if this is what she wanted reminding her and my sibling of the many problems I had to deal with during her last stay. Seems my mother doesn't want to go into a nursing home after all she just wants everyone to get along and conveyed there are enough of us to care for her around the clock, I agree. So what has me so upset tonight? One sibling called to say mom wanted to give her some jewelry and couldn’t find it. Sure she did, just like she told you she wanted to go to a nursing home and didn't want her to pay back $10k. How do I walk away and not feel guilty the way the others do? If they would use their efforts for my mom instead of against me things might work out. I am also the one sibling who has health issues and they have me so exhausted from their constant bickering and lack of support that I am ready to give up. My health is now being challenged and I have neglected my own husband and children. I don't feel gratitude from anyone, it's like I am the one doing something wrong because they don't want to do what’s right. I am exhausted but I start crying just thinking about how to tell my mom I can't keep this up anymore. My husband says there is no good answer and either way my mom and I lose but thanks for letting me vent.

cmag, my heart and concerns are with you and your wife. I hope that soon you will hear the words "There's no more cancer" if that is what it is. Hugs to both of you.

jessiebelle - welcome and do come back. Certainly you have not overloaded anyone. Some of us are further along this road of life than others, and are happy to hear where you are at, and share what works, and encourage. I am fightng a cold/infection and it is late for me now, but I will read your long post again, and comment in more detail tomorrow,
((((((((hugs)))))))
jo

hi notlike (((((hugs)))))
My sympathies on the loss of your uncle
Glad you went out with your girlfriends.
You most certainly are not crazy - but someone is. Narcissism is a serious condition, as you have read on the DNM website. As a general principle, I think it is safe to assume you are being manipulated. It is what narcissists do and, I believe, don't know how to do otherwise, I think it all is for her nar, benefit. (getting tired of typing narcissistic out and making typos lol)
Whether mum is trying to make up for being a jerk - or being a jerk, she is still narcissistic and you are so right about the strings,
Another general principle when dealing with narcissists is - establish boundaries.
I think you owe it to yourself to have time at home after work, and not be rushed into "helping" mum make a meal - for her benefit. They seem to want servants - your role in opening cans etc while she stars as the chef and gets the compliments. This does not fit your needs - right. She is responsible for her own happiness -whether she helps with meals or not. You do not have to take that on yourself. Don't even try to :"make her happy". She will sense this and use you. Narcissists crave attention (narcissistic supply) and will manipulate to get it with no regard for how it affects others. I truly believe that they are basically incapable of any empathy for or sensitivity to the feelings of others. I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I felt my mother truly showed any concern for me, and those times were fleeting. I have come to be thankful for the few positive memories, but not to expect any more,
Without boundaries, you will be on an emotional rollercoster ride, which exhausts most of us, and delights and energizes the NM.
re ideas - follow your guts on what feels right for you - my gut response is not to let her continue as she will invade your life more and more, you already are a good daughter, if not a great daughter by taking your mum and dad in - so you can put that one away. Letting a NM have her way freely in not being a good daughter (except in her eyes) any more than being a good mum is letting your child freely have their way, (think of your mum as a spoiled brat, if that is helpful) . I don't think you can let it go on without being further stepped on. It is what they do. They have very poor boundaries, so you have to establish and keep them. How do you protect yourself and not feel guilty? That is a big one for most of us who were brought up by NMs. We were trained to feel guilty, and think that we were at fault, and also that we were responsible for the NM's happiness. Recognise that this is a lie -a falsehood, a faulty way of looking at life. It simply is not true. Recognise that you deserve at least as much consideration as your mum - that you are going the second mile by having them in your home, that your husband and children should be high up your priority list (leave and cleave) and that you are in charge, not your mum. I would hold her to her statement that they will be having a big lunch and not need supper. That works for you as your and your family can have that time together. Handle it in a way that works for you. We get codependent when we are brought up by NM and spend a lot of head space worried about how to keep that persn happy. Kick her out of your head, not your heart, but out of your head and spend that time figuring out how to keep yourself and your family happy, balanced, needs met etc.
I have found saying simply "I cannot do that" has worked pretty well. You don't owe anyone any explanations of why you cannot - just you cannot. It probaby means in general that you cannot do that and still meet your own and your family's needs.
Run out of ideas for now. Hope this has helped. Let me know.
(((((Hugs))))) again. I know how tough this is.
jo

notlikemom, you are not crazy. Right now, I'm emotionally wrapped up in my wife's upcoming breast biopsy on Friday am. We read the most recent mammogram report tonight online from the hospital. The calcification has been rated as 4b which is more suspicious than a 3a, 3b, 3c, but not like a 5 which is certainly cancerous according to what we have learned.

I would defer to emjo for more immediate support tonight and tomorrow.

My wife and I will be out of town Thursday and Friday.

For 2 days, Mom has been trying to make it up to me for being such a jerk on Sunday. Part of this is for her to cook supper. She was the cook at my sister's, but was too tired when she got here to do that. I didn't encourage it because I knew she had alot of fatigue and because I also knew it would come with strings attached. She feels better now, and boy was I right about the strings.
I was too sick for dinner on Monday. Got invited out with girlfriends last night, and d**n it, I went! So tonight there was no escaping dinner.
Mom was warming up the pork chops she cooked yesterday before I even had the groceries put away. Then she wanted me to make rice. I didn't have enough, so I took out some microwave sides from the fridge. Then she added beans by putting the can on the counter for me to open and put in a pot. When everything was a few minutes from being ready, she added rolls that take 15 minutes in the oven. Then she wanted to warm up onions she had carmelized, so I had to move pots around on the burners for her. I set and cleared the table. Put up with more snide remarks about my serving dishes. And did all the talking while we ate or it would have sounded like a morgue.
I do not want her to make dinner ever again. If I have to do that much work, I might as well do it at my own pace, after I've taken my shoes off and relaxed for a few minutes after work. Part of me feels like I should let her because it makes her happy and lets her shine. (Everyone was sure to compliment the pork chops. What I did didn't even get any thank yous.) I am trying to provide a comfortable place for her. But it all just feels like it was for her narissistic benefit. Didn't feel like an apology to me.
I'm open to ideas here - let her or not? Be a good daughter? Stop this before it goes too far? How do I let it go on without getting stepped on some more? How do I stop it without feeling guilty? By the way, last week she told me, through Dad, that they would now be making a big lunch for themselves and not eating dinner, just an evening snack or light supper. So I don't see tonight as some great, wonderful change. I think I am being manipulated. Am I crazy???

JessieBelle, you have not overloaded us. This is a safe and good place to unload.

Thank you, everyone. I hope I don't overload you with too many problems and situations.

Jessie, I completely understand that feeling you are talking about... I call it 'anticipatory dread' waiting for the other shoe to drop... being back with them has triggered old feelings, and I know that feeling too... I could be away from my dad for years, but be in the same room with him for ten seconds and I was a wreck...
hope you come back and let others help you , if nothing else you will know you are not alone.... hugs and angels sent to you..

Jessie-so glad you found this site! I, too, understand what you are saying. Circumstances may differ, but none of us here grew up in the Waltons. Oh, how I enjoy watching those shows where everything comes out alright in an hour. Keep coming back and tell us how you're doing.
Cmag-what an awful childhood! Your mom ranks up there with the narrissistic bunch. Kudos to you for escaping it, and blessings to you and your wife for growing together despite both your pasts. I beleive love, true love, really does conquor all.
I wish my Dad would stand up more to mom. I've been talking with him, and if he can change, it will take time. Now that she can be alone again, I will suggest he at least go outside when she starts.
Big fight today. Trying to ask Mom if she was okay because Dad said she didn't feel well. She was so wicked he told her to stop talking like that to me and suggested she appologize. Really, even when I'm just trying to be concerned and helpful, she bites my head off. Her need for secrecy, to be right, and to only do/discuss when she wants to makes caregiving very hard. After the fight, he left to visit his dying brother, another thing she can barely tolerate. She's been in her room all afternoon, and I'm not really looking forward to her coming out.

JessieBelle, welcome! We are glad you found this thread. Your childhood does sound very complicated and painful. How sad to grow up without either parent being nurturing, but being so full of their own problems.

I'm glad you don't feel obligated like you owe them out of the usual fear and guilt tactics of emotional blackmail from parents that I read so much about here.

It sounds to me like you are waiting to get your life back because of how you describe your feelings of a drab view of the future, a sense of emptiness, not enjoying things that you used to enjoy, not being able to sleep and feeling very angry. It sounds like you want your life back but don't know what that means anymore and don't know how to get back to Kansas so to speak due to the dysfunctional land of Oz that you exist in daily with all of the emotional and psychological dysfunction.

I hope you will keep coming here to vent as much as you want. What your wrote makes plenty of sense to me.

Is it possible for you to see a doctor and get some medical help for the pressure you are under? That might help give you a sense of balance and more energy to see how to get your life back. Is it possible for you to see a therapist to talk through these various emotions and gaining some tools on how to not feel so trapped and burned out. If I may be so bold, but I wonder if along with waiting to get your life back that there is more that you are waiting for?

notlikemom, my mom did not leave my step-dad to protect herself for basically he had been her ticket out of living with her parents in a small town after she divorced my dad when I was three. I was from that point my mother's "little man" for she absorbed my identity into herself and made me her substitute emotional partner which did not change much after she married despite my protests to let go of me because she was married now which she did not for a good while. Her response was not something was right, but at that time, I just gave up fighting. When I actually left home to work, I fought for every ounce of freedom that I could get and paid a very high price throughout my life. She ran down my dad constantly and filled me with her hate for him, but he never ran her down. He was the stable and dependable one while she was a narcissistic drama queen who ended up drinking like her second husband who was more like her alcoholic dad than my dad is.

I've been in therapy now for 9 years and much of that dealing with my family of origin issues, some of which I already knew, and some I had not been willing or able to face.

Care about my step-dad's drinking? No. Care about me? Not really. In my late twenties, my mom did tell me that she knew how she raised me was wrong and would cause me a lot of pain in my life, but she could not help it. It was more than how she raised me, but how she used me that has caused a lot of pain.

It was quite a battle when I got married at age 31 to get her to grasp that I was putting my wife ahead of her.

Interestingly enough, my wife who was a few years older than me was fighting a similar battle with her mother which was so bad that I thought that I was the one with all of the freedom. Amazingly, we have stuck it out and we now feel closer to each other after 24 years of marriage than before. My dad told me once that I could write a book about being a good dad. Our boys have had a much better family experience, yes with its own problems, than either my wife or I had.

Mom married my step dad when I was 12. My mom did not and does not like her step-children. She did not want me to get close with them and it angered her that I spent time with the step-brother who is a year younger than me. I was looking forward to having a step dad and step siblings, but it did not turn out to be all that great.

Their marriage was never a very close one. In their old age, they have gotten somewhat close out of need than anything else. They tried to continue living together at home, but he was not able to do much since even then, he lived in a wheel chair and drank all the time. Instead of using her long term health insurance with its riders for home health care and home building care they hired a person from somewhere to help them that stole from them. He was caught and put in jail. The second person they hired to my step-siblings and my opposition now lives in the house with my step dad and sleeps in mom's old room. He is monitored with a baby monitor and she drives him to see my mother in the nursing home every dad. He does not like the fact that I have durable and medical POA. He blames me for her being in the nursing home and not being able to walk. Now, after about three years, I can see his views are changing. He and his helper about killed my mother after she had made enormous progress in rehab following her stroke, but despite them claiming they could take care of her, mom became dehydrated and was undernourished after 8 days. I got her to the doctor who put her in the hospital. She went to a assisted living where she was walking but her hip broke. After that surgery, her vascular dementia was worse and she has not been mentally up to the challenge of learning to walk again and after almost three years thinks she's only been there 2 months. One thing does concern me though is her will which she had a lawyer to write up in 1979 and hid in her mother's lock box with her brother's knowledge until shortly after my grandmother died. My uncle helped me track down the will which my mother hid very well. I have it now and I don't think my step-dad has seen it. I have seen his will and it is quite different. First, if he dies before her, everything goes to her, but if she is already dead, then everything goes to his three children. On the other hand, my mother's will gives me everything she ever bought, inherited, or was given and if I'm dead at that time, everything would go to my two sons. She left my step-dad completely out of her will.

I have learned that my grandmother never met my mother's emotional needs and I observed how my mom was not able to meet the emotional needs of her grandchildren. Like her mom was with me and all of her grandchildren, my mother never really connected with them. I don't know what else went on her family of origin, but I do know there is something strange about her younger sister who also married a drunk and her three boys whom she raised as a single mom. That is a whole story in itself and if I wrote it you would agree that is one strange family.

notlikemom, I wish your dad could set some boundaries with your mom, but at this point he's been beaten down too much for too many years. If I were him, which thankfully I'm not, I'd say something like this when she started screaming her emotional blackmail. "I will talk with you when you will talk with me as an adult to an adult. However, I will not have this' and then just walk out of the room and leave the house if needed. Want to hear something really radical? If I were him, I would tell your mom, if she persisted anymore after that boundary, "For my own sanity and that of our daughter, we are leaving this house for a few days' and then leave. If she still does not get it then just leave.(That would have been even better had he set such boundaries when you were much younger.) I had to do something similar to this with my wife back in 2002 concerning her intrusive mother with the boys and I actually leaving for a few days. At that point, I wanted my own life back and my family not to be under her mom like we had been, but my wife would not stand up to her out of fear of loosing any inheritance from her mother. After some therapy, my wife told me as much and said she was sorry that she put all of us through so much pain.

I wish you could still go to therapy and had better insurance, but there are therapists out there who will charge on a sliding scale according to your financial ability.

My own childhood was so complex, it is hard to write it in a few words. My father has what was now be called Asperger's. He was able to work, but didn't socialize or bond with anyone outside my mother. Not even with his children. It has gotten worse as now that he is older. My mother was and is emotionally unstable, highly critical, and quick to fly into absolute rage. The motto around our house growing up was "Don't bother your father." Pretty soon it also became "Don't bother your mother." It was a horrible and lonely place to grow up. My parents didn't want anyone in the house. It is still the same. I doubt that they really want me here now, but they need me. It is me or assisted living.

Sometimes I hear that care giving is something owed parents. But really, I don't feel I owe my parents anything because of how bad it was. I had three brothers. One became an alcoholic when he was a teen and ended up drinking himself to death. The other two rarely come around. My mother complains about them, but I understand. We are not the Waltons.

Circumstances brought me back home. My hubby and I separated and I work from home, so it seemed a good solution to come back to help them. It does save me a lot of money, so it is good that way. I had a very hard adjustment period for several months, but soon things smoothed out. I feel I am where I am supposed to be.

There have been changes in myself that I don't like. I don't wake up anticipating a new day like I used to. I don't enjoy food like I used to. I don't go to bed as early. It is almost like I'm waiting for something. And I am more worried than I used to be. Plus sometimes I feel very angry. I am not depressed. It is more like I am in waiting mode. I hope this makes sense to someone.

I wish this was a happy party house, but it isn't. My father sits in his chair all day and goes to bed before 6:00. My mother watches TV or looks out the window. I would join them more often, but I have a hard time just sitting. So I do my work, clean, cook, and shop. Not much of a life, but I am so out of my element still that I've had a hard time figuring out what to do. After reading about the Wild Old Ladies in San Francisco that closed down a bank in San Francisco with their Occupy movement, I thought I'd form a WOW group here. We wouldn't close down banks, but it would be nice to have a group of cheerful friends to do things with. No red hats needed. :)

Thank you for all the kind words. Being able to post is like an island of calm in my otherwise insane world.
If we are posting on this site, we are all survivors of a dysfunctional family. Yeah to us! Even if we are still living in it, we have survived so far and can see the problems it causes.
I don't know why there are so many narissistic mothers out there Ladee. Was it the times, society, or their own distant parents? Sounds like a school project to me. I think emjo is very wise about this, too, and I always read what she has to say.
cmag-did you mother leave to protect herself or did she not care about your step-dad's drinking? Sounds like she still loves you, if she came home when you were there. Does your step-dad care for her now? Does his drinking effect that?
My Dad has told me that when Mom is at her worst and I am gone during the day, she screams at him that he is a liar, theif, and a cheat. She brings up all kinds of things from his past, mostly little things she has blown out of proportion. When he can no longer take it, he yells back. She finally backs off, and then he does whatever she wants to keep the peace as long as possible. I am already seeing a pattern here, which disrupts my quiet household.
My grandmother (Dad's mom) left his father and the 4 boys after WWII. Very un-heard of for the times, I guess. She moved 1/2 way across the country. He ran away to see her when he was in his teens but was sent back to his father. His father asked the boys if they would like a new mother, and when they said they didn't like his choice, he married my step-grandmother anyway. She had 4 kids and treated her step-sons like dirt. So my dad's never had a strong mother figure. And his father beat him alot, causing even more problems.
One of my aunts has commented that it's a miracle the 4 boys grew up and had decent families. All in all, they are good dads, and didn't beat their kids. I've been in counseling, but can't afford it right now at $110 a session. Lousy insurance.
I am blessed to have a husband who understands my crazy side. One of the best things he ever did for me was remind me, hundreds of times, that I didn't have to appologize for everything. "I'm sorry" were always the first words out of my mouth, even when the situation had nothing to do with me. Learning that lesson has alone given me a feeling of self-worth I did not grow up with.

notlikemom, it is sad when someone feels they have to use the bottle to deal with their painful past. I think my step-dad drinks like he does because of the pain from his first wife having an affair on him and drank even more those years my mother basically left him to live at the beach house which was even sadder since she said she knew he drank more when she was gone. She only came home basically whenever I was back from college and graduate school as well as other times after I left town, but did not really return home for good until she had her first seizure while at the beach and the doctor told her that she could no longer live alone.

notlikemom, I imagine that your narcissistic mother holds your dad's con artist past over him as her weapon of emotional blackmail to make sure he walks on eggshells around her and continues as her enabler?

I'm glad you have a good relationship with your dad and I hope that can be maintained. Although, he does not drink now which is great, it sounds like he's still in bondage to your mother. I wonder what his mother was like?

I would suggest seeking to detach with love from your mother. emjo can tell you a lot about that, plus a therapist would help you also if you can afford one and get away to one. Hugs, love, and prayers.

Notlikemom, you may have to play certain games, but you are so far from the dysfunction it amazes me... you are smart, loving, very aware, and your hands are tied.... your dad's guilt over his past should have nothing to do with how things are allowed to go on with your mom... no matter what your mom says or does, you are an amazing daughter, you are risking everything you hold true and dear to be there for a mom that is not going to change.... and we can only change our own attitude to a degree without completely loosing ourself.... your mom is my dad in drag,(excuse the visuals there!).... there was no amount of guilt trips by the sibs could make me do anything for him... unless I WANTED to... so I am blessed with this "obnoxious and arrogant" personality, my sisters labels, that I said NO from the begining..... Have you ever asked her, even in anger, why she thinks it is ok to talk to you the way she does???? You may not get an answer, but it is empowering to be able to say it outloud.....Why is it that most of that generation are narcissistic???? Especially the women..... baffling......
So no matter what she says or does, do not get lost in the craziness. I know she has serious health issues, so does your dad, but it is your turn to take care of yourself... we may come from dysfunctional families, doesn't mean we can't be true to ourself..... and sometimes say out loud what needs to be said.... hugs to you... and angels to help you carry your load.....

Thank you cmag for starting this thread! Kudos to you.
emjo-I too have a narcissistic mom and have been on the DNM website I saw you reccomended on another thread. That isn't her only problem, but I think it's the one that hurts me most while being her caregiver. Caregiving is a selfless act, and there aren't alot of rewards when you're doing it for a selfish person.
I feel for those of you who discovered in adulthood that your families weren't normal. I have known since I was a teenager, but at that time, my Dad was the main problem. When I was 16, after repeatedly asking him why he drank, he finally told me about his past as an ex-con. It was a brutal awakening for me, because my parents were so uptight, law abiding, and righteous.
Now the tables have turned. Years of lving apart from them made me think their problems couldn't affect me anymore. Having them move in with me changed that thought in about 3 weeks! My Dad is sober and this time, my Mom is the problem. But we are still playing all the same old dysfunctional roles.
Had a talk with Dad yesterday in the car. I don't think that a 43 year old woman (me) should have to hear her 73 year old father tell her is is protecting her from her Mother's anger. I am not a child anymore and shouldn't need protection!!! I'm afraid that the good relationship I've developed with my Dad will be ruined because he enables Mom, and I resent that.
i agree that being from a dysfunctional family makes caregiving harder. There's enough with all the appointments, meds, medical explanations, and actual illness without all the baggage. i've been asked to treat my mom less like a patient and more like a relative. If i did that, I'd probably throw her out on her ear!
Still trying to find ways to cope...Becky

How is everyone doing?

I hope more people will join us on this thread.

SDPeg, I think you could write a dissertation from what you wrote above.

After being in therapy for 8 years, I see many things about my family of origin and my immediate family that a college degree and a master degree did not show me. My eyes were closed and my ears were shut. Must of been for I majored in sociology, took developmental psychology in college and took a course in marriage and family counseling in graduate school.

For some of us like me, I think it takes our parents getting older and possibly like some drastic life changes like me going on disability that puts us in the position to see and hear.

Ask your child and family development courses about parents who expect their children to grow up way to fast and have a childless childhood or the impact upon one's life to constantly hear one parent run down the other after a divorce or the results of a parent making their son or daughter an emotional and or ___ substitute spouse. BTW, I ran across a radical but good article about mistakes single moms need to avoid in raising sons. Among other things, my mom dumped her anger toward my dad into me, but I did not see that for what it is until recently. On the other hand, he has never run her down. When I've brought her up or asked a question about her, he gives me responses of his perception of the facts without any emotional baggage. Past time for me to go to bed!

has some family secrets hidden under the veneer of being the perfect family... could not agree with you more. We were not the family with divorce, drugs, alcohol, cheating etc but, years and years later, I can look back (with more maturity, less distractions, and more education) and "see" things I did not see before. What happened? Boom!!! One can keep a secret only so long.... and then someone like me listens more intently and really sees things.
As I told my four daughters: "I did the best I could as a parent now it is your turn to do your best." And no one can really expect more than that. If I analyze their families I can see spots that I would improve upon, but I didn't like it when people did that to me so I won't do that to them. Maybe that's what life is about: breaking the cycles that harm others.
Someone once said to me that we can't change the past (no duh huh?) but in the present we can search our souls to improve ourselves and the future will be a calmer place to be.
I would like to add that in my child and family development courses research is presented on the importance of a male in a child's life, specifically a boy's life. I wish I still had my textbook to quote it...great, great agencies stepping up when a man is not in a boy's life. We could point the finger at the mother who chose not to have the father in the child's life, or the father who is not in the child's life or society that contributes to this problem or focus on the solution: how can a man be a mentor to a boy who does not have a man in his life? And how can a woman be a mentor to a girl who does not have a woman in her life? We know what the problem is~can we be part of the solution? Just sayin'!
SDPeg

I fit in here like "fun" fits in dysfunctional. Good thread cmag! There must be people out there in the real world who are caregiving without the complexities of dysfunction, but it seems a number of us here are not so fortunate.

seeme you raise a good question and although I am one of two, I will toss something back at you - "You were available". I mean emotionally, physically - in all ways .

I am one of many on here with a narcissistic parent and that makes the job of caregiving different from those whose parents is not.

Jam, like you say, all families have some level of dysfunctional which is seen more on a range from low to high. A high dysfunctional family system often results in a divorce or has some family secrets hidden under the veneer of being the perfect family.

Very often a divorce is do to one spouse having a personality disorder or some biologically based mental illness that is either not diagnosed or the person is not staying on their meds. Sometimes people who don't really fit in the range of normal get married and somehow survive, but the impact upon the children is not healthy.

seemeride, I have no idea how you got the caregiver job. Maybe, you just chose to instead of having to do it as the chosen one.

This topic has been on my mind all day. I'd like to hear comments from those who have more than a couple of siblings. As one of 6 children, I still don't know how I got the job of caregiver......any takers?

Cmag, thanks for starting this thread... this is going to tie in with so many issues we face in caregiving.... another safe place to put our feelings..... prayers this is a success.... hugs to you...

CMag.......great topic and I'm sure there will be lots of responses. Countless times I have tried to come up with a family unit that I personally know that is not dysfunctional in one way or another....and I have never been able to do that. I used to think maybe it was because a lot of us are products of divorce, but then you find a lot of families where there has been no divorce but lots of other dynamics to cause turmoil. This would be an excellent topic for the professionals here to weigh in on. I would welcome their insight.
Hugs to you CMag.........