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You all have it I know or you wont be here. This is year 2 for me and he's not a bad guy it is just we are different in many ways. It is starting to grate on me and I am becoming a very grumpy person. My wife and I are stressed, she has a lot of stress at work. I work at home so I am in it 24/7. We don't have a lot of money to travel and I can't leave him for very long. I can but not sure what the house would be like after. I cook, shop, repair and do all the things around the house, My wife cleans and keep an immaculate house even with 2 dogs.
Dad can come and go as he wishes. It is just he is complaining to relatives ow so I am looking like the bad guy. If I say anything I am really in trouble. It has always been this way. I learned from my mom to keep my ears open and mouth shut. If I tell a relative they tell him. if I tell him he tells a relative. If I say anything to my sister she tells him so I am screwed.
I cant post a message on social media he finds it (sneaky ways he uses the computer). So I am apparently blackballed from the family per sea. It is my assumption but since no one calls now I can only figure that. How do I get info to family that he is not being as forth rite as he portrays? We are all over the country, one sibling and I do not talk (damage done years ago). The other its all about her. Its the aunts and cousins who I guess I don't care but it does sting that I bust my ass and he has to look like the spoiled child.
Losing my cool way too much (it is in check just inside my head).
Do I ask my sibling to take him for a month this summer? If I do she will make it seem like I am asking a favor and will tell him I asked then I look like I am booting him out.

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I appreciate all the insight, I am working through this. I posted to get some insight on what to do since I am new to this. Yes I make mistakes. I am not perfect. The situation is fine but troubling at times like tonight when things boil over. Planning a quiet evening and made dinner and we are the ones to put it all together. Gladly the kids did clean up (I left the room). It is just a frustrating deal with dogs, and people. Everyone comes home and goes to their corners and I am left doing the work. I look to here for some small things I can use in my situation, not the answer all. I understand everyone has their pound of stuff to deal with so I look for ways to help by what others have done. If I don't do what people suggest that is my problem not yours. so please don't take offense. Thanks for listening.
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TG, thanks so much for your clarifications. I empathize with your situation, but will have no further insights, I'm afraid.

I'm sorry that you've had some unhelpful therapists. I've had three. The last helped me move my life forward, but the other two, although less adroit, started the process of helping me look at myself.

I wish you well, and am glad that your marriage, and partner are strong.
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TG, speaking for myself I really value having people here that I can just grumble to about small, trivial things that nevertheless annoy the knickers off me. And I hope you get to do that too - things like the milk: this is not insoluble (get more milk vs. train Dad either to run the errand or at least to note down Milk on the Shopping List - I bet I know which is quicker!) or unforgivable, just really irritating.

I know you know you always knew there were going to be challenges - I remember you very sensibly doing the research just around the time that Dad arrived.

Some things do have a solution but it's hard work, or unattractively hard-nosed; some things don't have a solution but aren't that big a deal; some things don't have a solution and are a big deal, and those we just have to get through with as much patience and kindness and dignity as we can (in my case bugger all dignity and the patience got pretty threadbare at times too).

So please do keep coming back just to vent away - it's therapy in itself. And the main thing: be alert for too many small issues adding up past your own personal breaking point. That's the real danger, as in "careful with that ax, Eugene..."
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TG, I think that it is part of the caregiver gene to want to fix things, so when we see what seems to be an obvious fix it can be frustrating that our advice isn't always taken. I know all about being stuck in a place where the alternatives don't look any more attractive than the present so I sympathize. Keep venting here, I know we get stung sometimes but very few comments are truly malicious and even those who disagree are rooting for each other.
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TG - I am truly sorry for offending you with my troll comment. Be well. - NYD
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TG, a lot of women had to get married... or at least had to push the date up a bit. This is despite the fact that they were pure as the driven snow on the day they married. My own mother had a "premature" baby eight months after my parents got married. The preemie weighed over 10 pounds! Sorry, Mom, we are not fooled. :P

My thoughts on therapy are the same as yours. Some people are lucky to find a good one. I have had many therapists in my life since I had panic disorder a couple of times. I think a good partner and good friends are the best therapy there is. Walking through the world alone is the worst therapy.
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As for therapy, I am still on the fence. I have been in therapy before... as a child (family issues, sibling drug issues) and some marital issues early on (fully resolved, I am not perfect). I am not too trusting of therapy as I have had some really bad therapists (as my wife had as well, again family issues) and only one good one. We both had happy childhoods except a few sibling issues so we understand each others issues. My wife is my perfect partner and we are a matched set. We have been through a lot together. I know others have been through worse. We talk a lot so I am not sure where a therapist will help. As much as i would like to see about it part of me is unwary that someone else can understand what I am dealing with and how to correct it. I could be a tough guy and tell everyone out but that is a fantasy. I made my bed, now I just have to figure out how to get the best nights sleep in it.....
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Babalou, Yes, mom was the organizer of the house. It was never apparent there was any issue. Things just went along. My parents were always one unified pair. There were never major fights, dad had a temper which mellowed (as has mine) but that I believe was due to some life stresses. Mom did all the house management. Worked full time. All the super mom stuff. I got her management style and ways of just getting it done and not asking for help. I got my dads sales skills and mechanical side.
Mom did everything without complaint. She had to grow up fast when she lost her mom at a young age and had a difficult father to deal with then had to get married at 19 (didn't know that until after she passed). So I get my commitment to family from her. It may be easy to say "deal with it". But I have seen how that plays out sometimes. We have had help from both sides of the family so sometime I just have to suck it up, help them out and move on..... I guess, I hope....
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Wow, t think I am done here.... NYDaughterinlaw, thanks for the uplifting advice "troll"? Sucked in"? I think that was uncalled for but then again this is social media so its open for any unsolicited advice so I have to take a bit of uneducated submissions every once in a while. (Thick skin). As for cwillie, thank you! You are correct. Linda22, yes, you are correct. I am just looking to get some ideas, I can't fix it over night.
For those who have chimed in recently, I do take the advice and put it in to use. As for what people would do if I was not here? I am fairly well covered if something happens that my wife would be care for. As for my wife leaving?Not a chance, our daughter is half hers half mine. As for my father it was partly her idea as well and I cared for her sister and moved in with the course of her brain cancer and still to this day care for her brother we have in a nursing home out of state.
Sometimes in life you have no choice. I am a firm believer in taking care of family no matter what. I cannot move dad out, he has no money. As for my kids, that is a different story. Yes we are getting fed up and discussions are evolving. We are trying to help them get their own place. The SIL is pretty lazy so it is up to my daughter. It is going to take longer than I want but I have to be patient. I am getting more vocal. My daughter made dinner last PM after we both worked all day (on a Sunday). It was nice and I let her know that so she may step up more now. A little positive reinforcement goes a long way.
As for dad...... I just have to put up with his being a pain in the ass... loud TV, drinking all the milk and leaving none for anyone or buying more.... it is the little things. Last pm dinner cleanup was going on and him walking around with a knife blade out. My wife told him about it and his response "after 80 years I am not going to change". well that about summed it up. I did remind him the other night if he kept things up I would drive him to his daughters house..... so once in a while I have to reel him back in. He is going to her house for the holidays so that will be a break, I am going to suggest every major holiday for her to get him for a while....
As for my wife being my priority I try every day to make her number one...... we are a partnership. We try to go out to lunch, dinner as much as we can to get away. I am trying to make more to get away with her more. We should not that we have a built in "dadsitter".... Anyway, thanks for the "constructive criticism". The non constructive is well just that, as mom always said "if you can say anything nice......"
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TG, did your Dad sell house when your Mom died, and is there That money available to him, in order to place him in an Assisted living environment where he might thrive, amongst his peers? I am just thinking of ways that might work for you, as I am currently working on these exact same issues with my own FIL, living with us. It is a very difficult situation, and one I am working through. We are all in this together! Learning from one another! Hang in there!
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Continued,,,,what you'd learn in therapy is more adaptive and healthier ways of dealing with these frustrations. And how to recognize a situation on the horizon that's going to turn into a disaster, and avoid or ameliorate it.
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TG, we all have this picture in our heads, whether it's the Waltons or some book or TV show from our childhoods that shows a big happy family living together and pulling the metaphorical plow in the same direction. While this sometimes works shortterm during a crisis, or when a close knit family is focussed on a particular goal--when individual differences can be overlooked for the achievement of a greater good, longterm, as a way of life, I've never known a situation where it worked without there being some really hard feelings, resentment and flared tempers.

In your situation, I've suggested a couple of times that you seek out therapy or counseling. You haven't responded substantively. I wish I understood what you're so frightened of finding out in that process.

You are welcome to vent here. I think there are some serious adjustments that need to be made in your living situation and in your understanding of your role in your family. You appear to believe that the only way to get anyone to change is to explode in anger, and you're reluctant to do that.

Is that what your mom was like? It sounds as though she was the hyper-organized leader of the family. Your dad's careless ways and laxity about money must have driven her up a wall. In much the same way you're being driven up the wall.
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I can relate to TG better than most, I guess. There are people like him and me that allow ourselves to get painted in a corner with paint that never seems to dry. We don't want to hurt family, but we also know the situation isn't so good for us. What I wish for TG is that his daughter and her husband fly the nest and get their own place. The thought of staying with parents at their age is so alien to me that I wonder how they stand it. I've seen it on TV, like "All in the Family," but never in real life. Makes me think of that movie "Failure to Launch" where the mother tries to get her son someone to marry just to get him out of the house.

The father seems to have become less of the problem now. Wouldn't it be cool if Daughter and hubby found a place and Dad moved in with them? Maybe Dad could help them with the living expense, and TG and wife would have some breathing space. Of course, then they would probably feel guilty. We just can't win when it comes to family affairs.
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Thanks for posting TG's earlier question. What comes through loud and clear is the lack of boundaries and the Fear, Obligation and Guilt that surround his family relationships.
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Babalou, I had forgotten about Beretta's dilemma. That's a good thread to read. TG, we're probably more familiar with that thread so I looked it up for you:

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/become-wifes-priority-with-father-in-law-her-focus-187296.htm?cpage=1.

Searching for one of Tgengine's first posts, I located the one I was thinking of, in which the wife left her husband b/c of her MIL: The poster was Dagan.

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/want-life-marriage-back-cant-care-for-mom-186396.htm.

Unfortunately, the thread no longer exists. But the next link also addresses the issue of problems of one spouse's parent in the couple's home:

https://www.agingcare.com/discussions/mother-in-laws-stroke-is-ruining-my-marriage-190214.htm.

NY DIL, when I remember how Tgengine presented his situation to us when he first posted, and compare it to now, I see the change. I don't believe he's a troll. I believe he's very conflicted and stressed, but he's not just "pulling our chain."

Here's one of his earlier posts. Note the change in the tenor of his message, in his vocabulary, in the calmness of his rational reasoning.

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/deal-with-family-members-living-expenses-when-living-with-you-197020.htm
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Cwillie - I hang around this site to learn. I get insights into what to expect regarding my FIL's cognitive decline. I learn what my MIL's caregiving needs will likely be as her neurodegenerative illness progresses. I hope TG is getting what he needs out of it too.
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TH, read the thread started by Beretta68, wondered how he could become his wife's priority again, when she was getting lost in caregiving her Dad. His journey might be instructive.
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TG has made a lot of progress in my opinion, at least now he recognizes when he is being taken advantage of. It is so much easier to analyze and offer a fix for other people's lives than to work on our own, and let's face it most of the people who hang around this site for a long time do so because we have problems than we aren't willing or able to fix easily.
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NY, I don't think TG's a troll. I think he's a guy who started out doing what he thought was the right thing (trying to help his dad), not realizing that his dad would take advantage and be a lousy housemate. Then he thought he was helping his daughter, again trying to do the right thing. Now he's trying to handle this without hurting feelings and damaging relationships, but he seems to be the only one there concerned about others. It brings to mind that saying "when you're up to your butt in alligators, it's easy to forget you came to drain the swamp."
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Why would someone who has gotten nearly 200 posts filled with caregiving insights and cautionary tales be getting worse rather than better? The posts continue to be litanies of complaints. Nothing has changed. Questions remain unanswered. Has it crossed anyone else's mind that TG is a master troll who has sucked us into a caregiving fiction?
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TG, I have been struck by your comments about how much you miss the refuge that your home used to be for you and your wife. I wish that you could get that peaceful refuge back.

I suspect that you are afraid that if you kick your daughter and son-in-law out that they will become estranged from you? Is that correct? (I could be totally off-base.) Regardless, is what you have now with their selfish and inconsiderate ways any better?

I would try to find a way to get your father out of your house, too. You are not responsible for him. Suppose you were to die or lose your house? Then what would become of him? There has to be a Plan B. These moochers are affecting your health. You and your wife deserve better.
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TG, think about it - you're about to incur the cost and hassle of addition a room to your home so that you and your wife have one room that's a safe haven. ???? To me, this is waving the white flag and turning your home over to the relatives.

Time to break some eggs and make the omelette. This weekend, you and Mrs. TG call a family meeting, and yes, SIL needs to be there. You tell them that this living situation isn't working and is becoming worse. Even basic courtesies aren't happening and you need to make a change. Daughter and SIL need their own space and have 30 days to secure an apartment. Dad is a bit of a different case, as he doesn't have the income for rent, but he needs to become a considerate, contributing member of the household. Done. This is not a negotiation, this is not up for discussion of how everyone can behave better. It's your home.

And GA is right....spouses of caregivers will tell you that Mrs.TG will hit the tipping point. She probably dreads coming home now, to a stressed out husband and freeloading, rude relatives.

Will they all be ticked at you -- of course -- you're stopping the free ride. You either make them mad now or you do it later, but it will happen. What you're doing by being pre-emptive now is controlling the inevitable tornado a bit.
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TG, some of us have followed your journey and offered suggestions when that journey moved from an idealized freeway trip to a challenging, unpleasant, journey through rough country, over rocky roads, with frequent storms and challenges.

We offered advice; I saw in other's posts the hope that you would see the situation more clearly through other poster's viewpoints and take action to change the unacceptable aspects of what has clearly degenerated into an unpleasant if not intolerable situation for you in your very own home.

Yet we saw that it was difficult and challenging to make changes, your family other than your wife is uncooperative, resistant and manipulative. I don't see that the situation is progressing at all; in fact, it's regressing and getting worse.

The fact that you state you're still complaining rather than stating what's being done suggests to me you're sinking deeper and deeper into this morass of family manipulation, friction and nonphysical abuse.

So now I'm going to be REALLY blunt.

1. Your personality and presentation have changed. I recall your first posts; my impression was of a well organized, progressive businessman who wanted to do the right thing and care for his father.

2. Your posts have changed; your vocabulary and presentation have changed. I don't see the successful businessman any more. I see a man under siege from a family who, other than your wife, don't seem to give a damn how much they're manipulating, exploiting, annoying, and sponging off you.

They might be blood relatives, but aren't demonstrating it. They're more like moochers.

3. Life in your house must be chaotic, and at times miserable. And this is due to your family. When I read your latest posts, I envision a movie about old medieval tactics...you and your wife are in your castle and the barbarians are at the gate flinging over stones and hot oil, storming the castle and putting you in fear for your sanity. (And yes, I think you are at that point).

4. How long do you think your wife will tolerate this before she becomes fed up and decides to leave you? Is that thought like a "sucker punch"? it should be; I wouldn't tolerate that kind of behavior from any relative.

5. There was another poster who faced a situation in which his wife left him b/c of his mother living with them. He was obviously frustrated, frantic, teetered between finding a place for his mother and faced a lot of challenges making the choice between having her in his home vs. having his wife return to him.

It would be instructive to read it, but a search failed to return a link to that specific post.

6. In fact, what would you do if your wife got fed up and left? Would you be able to take action against your sponging family then?

7. I do understand that you're torn between choices, feeling more and more guilty and downtrodden and this isn't easy. It's as if you're being shelled from all sides except your wife's. \

I doubt if anyone who's gone through a similar situation would say it is easy, or even anything but gut wrenching and difficult. But it is necessary if you want to survive with your sanity and stop the freeloading and abusive treatment.

8. It may be that either you or your wife need to reach a breaking point when you either have some sort of nervous breakdown event, blow up, or (a) find a place for your FIL and just move him out, and (b) give your daughter and her apparently smelly husband to get out, like in a week, not a few months, but very soon.

This couple are adults in age but children in behavior. And they aren't going to grow up as long as they have a playpen provided by their father.

9. I honestly don't know what it takes to reach a breaking point, but you're on a fast track to that destination.
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tgengine,
I've been reading your remarks for a while now. I do not understand why your daughter and your SIL and their dog are still living with you. If they are working and receiving paychecks, they should be able to do as many young people do. Choices are: a) find an apartment that you can afford and move out, b) buy a condominium or house that you can afford and move out, c) start paying rent and helping with chores in your home with a plan to move out within 3 to 6 months. This is not about how much you love your daughter. If she is old enough to be married, she should be old enough to provide a roof over her own head. It is not your responsibility. In fact, you may be making life too comfortable for them. You and your wife need to come to agreement on this and then communicate your decision. You deserve a home that you actually want to come home to.
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why on earth don't you take all of the advice you have been given and kick out your SIL and Daughter - they can rent a place. They are walking all over you, you get angry, but you are not changing anything.
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What is it about not bathing? I cant leave the house without taking a shower. Yet, my SIL and father don't think a thing about it. My SIL wears his clothes for days and smells of odor and cigarettes..... Dad, goes a few days but in the mean time sprays old spice all over like well you know....
I have to use everything non scented in my house. No Yankee candles, no smelly perfumes, no sprays, even unscented laundry detergent and any body wash. Perfumes send me into migraine status! My dad knows all to well my migraines, he was there from the beginning of them when I was a teenager. Smells set me off, it has been getting better but now the on slot of smells is overwhelming and now my house smells of dogs (3), laundry.... his and the SIL. My daughter was not raised this way and how she puts up with him. We have to have blankets on the sofa so the sofa does not smell... I hate living like this! Anyone else have these issues? I have told dad to tome down the old spice..... he does not listen, I think he is nose blind to it. I had a new hire secretary I had to tell not to wear perfume as it sets me off. Only certain smells are OK with me. My wife's perfume is OK but the old one was better. I have had the same cologne for 30 years and use it very sparingly.... almost never. Do I hose everyone down once a day?
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Still difficult with what is going on in the house. SIL is non communicative. didn't even come into the house until late last, didn't eat with us. Not sure what is going on with him. Getting very tired of this. Walking on egg shells in my own house. Dad is trying to be busy but still much of the same. Plays games with everyone it seems. I am trying to stay neutral but last night at dinner it got tense, it is the little things... Not sure how I can overcome being so tense. Tonight I have a client meeting so I wont be home, neither will he (figures). It is getting so I don't like to come home at times due to all the tension. This used to be my and my wife's sanctuary.
I started making dinner for my wife and I, if anyone is here they can eat with us. Dad says, "don't make dinner for me tonight, I won't be home". I don't make dinner for him, I make it for us .... this is not a freaking hotel! Anytime anything is said it is all back to him. My sister actually called me last night, of course its all about her. My family is nuts! I ask about everyone of her kids, grand kids and husband and her job. She asks nothing about my kids what so ever..... 3 narcissists in the family.... I have done a lot of reading on how to relate to people and from having everyone in the house I have begun to shut down in talking to people. I go out to events and I talk less and ask more about the person I am in front of. I guess living in this place has helped me to relate to others rather than talk about me (except here where I vent). I am not sure if it is good or bad.
I do all the food shopping, I went for something to eat the other day and the one staple was gone, I had just gone shopping. So I figured I wont buy it and see what happens. lo and behold Solomon went out and got it, so my letting things alone does work... Frustrating....
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tengine - dysfun families tend to have alignments, Not sure you can do much about that. I agree don't worry about it. In dysfun fams we need to develop a bit of a thick skin over some things.Mother used to tell everyone who would listen what a terrible daughter I am. I told her if she didn't like the way I was doing things to find someone else. It didn't stop her but it slowed her down a little , More important I felt freed from her negativity by sticking up for myself. If your dad doesn't like it there, he can find somewhere else.
Re laundry - make the rules, post them on the wall by the washer, adhere to then and let people experience the consequences if they don't follow them. And don't worry about their comments - just point them to the rules. Let them get upset if their laundry is turfed out of the washer or dryer because they left it there too long. That is a boundary. I am glad you are working on boundaries. Even if you invited people to live there, it does not mean they can walk all over you. They still need to behave respectfully and responsibly.

Glad sil helped with the yard work. So what if sil says he needs his own space and sits in his truck or cannot manage money. Don't worry about it - not your problem - his problem. If you want him to get out of your home, then set a time limit for him. I agree, if he needs his space let him get his own home. Good for you for telling him that.

So glad you are staying firm with your daughter and the down payment. Well done!!!

Very good idea to go back to the gym and start eating properly. Indeed look after you and your wife and marriage. Those are your priorities. Sounds like you are making some good decisions. Keep it up!
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Its been a challenging weekend. For some reason the kids have been cold shouldering us. My daughter has started going to church with dad which is nice and going out to breakfast. I think it is nice that she is the only grandchild to do so. The other side of me is a little wary due to he like to get alignments (think survivor). Not sure what he is telling her (how terrible it is living here). I can't worry too much. Dad did make the "maid" comment again to my wife which in turn set her off. Plus the SIL made a comment about us being upset about laundry..... (we all have to use the laundry room so everyone needs to use it and make it available for the others) It is a fine line to walk here as we invited everyone to live here. On the plus side the SIL did help me with some yard work for an hour......
I talked to my daughter this AM, Got a somewhat OK response that they are working on things mostly money and getting a house. We have a considerable down payment for them left from their grandmother. She asked about it to pay down credit but I still stand firm "the day you go to closing is the day I bring the down-payment". Knowing them they will blow the money and it will be gone so the best way to hold it is me, plus I have it invested.
My SIL has no clue about money and how to save or plan so I worry about their future.
I have tried to set boundaries. It is frustrating. I don't understand how the SIL will have to have "his own space", I did tell him this weekend if you need space buy a house or get your own place. He will sit in his truck for hours doing who knows what because he needs his own space....
So my wife and I are just letting people do what they want and we do what we want. All I ask is let me know if you will be here for dinner so I don't waste food.
My plan is this week to get back to the gym, eat better, concentrate on my wife and I and not let anyone else bother us..... You live here fine, just hep out.. I can't spend the next 10 years worrying my self into a stress ridden overeating blob which is where I am at. I have gained weight since last year. Now time to start helping me and not everyone else....
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sorry got your name wrong that's cttn!

You are most welcome for the phrases. I found with my narc mother that I had to prepare myself for the inevitable demands and arguments. I used to say "Then we will have to agree to disagree" when she tried to pick a fight or convince me of something. Good for you deciding you will not be hands on taking care of your mum. If she falls it will be her doing from the sound of it and her insurance will provide for the care she needs. It is hard enough even at arm's length. Stay firm !
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