Society's Expectations

Jessie, I completely understand, and certainly wouldn't disagree with your position or conclusions.

Ali, the financial subordination and dependency of women is one of the most insidious factors behind tying a woman down to raising children. I think you've hit on the root of a lot of this nonsense about women being the caregiver and having to raise the children.

Fortunately, some men are learning that's not always the best situation, and are now the stay at home husbands and fathers while their wives work, and sometimes earn more money than the men can. As Bob Dylan sang, "The times they are a changin'." And those changes are long overdue.

The other part that is funny is the expectations of a daughter-in-law. My mother-in-law has two sons. She would NEVER expect them to provide hands-on care. But she did talk about holding my husband to a promise that my husband made that she would never have to live in a nursing home as her Parkinson's advanced. When I asked who was to provide her the increasing care that the disease would require, MIL looked at me puzzled and said "You, of course! I'd never ask him to do that kind of thing. Daughters should be honored to provide the care, and your own mother passed away so now..." That was all I needed to hear. Told husband that day that he needed to understand that I was not the ONE. The care that MIL was unwilling to provide to her own family members was not going to be provided to her by ME. Funny, my husband has yet to go see about arrangements to get mommy out of the nursing home and arrange in-home care so she can return to live with father-in-law...

Guestshopadmin - that's really crazy. I can't believe that your MIL actually thought either that women should be honored to take care of elders or that you would naturally want to take care of her since your mother had passed. Or that you would be obligated to fulfill a promise made by your husband without your agreement. I'm glad you had the guts to stand up for yourself and not get roped into meeting her (and your husband's?) expectations. Good for you!

GSA. "honored to provide the care"? Wow! My first thought was that I might expect this response from an Asian person, as women in the old China were expected to provide care for their husband's parents. I've often wondered but never researched how this might have changed since China has changed so drastically in the last decade and women are developing their own lives and careers.

But there's also the possibility that this is a generational issue as well with MIL. Her generation may still believe that women are the primary care providers. I don't think that generation really is familiar or in tune with the changes in women's rights.

This reminds me of something someone said to me last year. She was adamant that Hillary should not be running, adding that she doesn't feel women should be in politics. Seriously??? She wasn't my friend; she was an acquaintance of my father and called me when she couldn't reach him. After that conversation, I never took her calls again.

Carla/GA - I think the narcissistic waif was trying to find a formal way to obligate me. Her opening salvo in our relationship 20 plus years ago was telling me she hoped her son reconciled with his soon-to-be ex-wife because MIL never got divorced for FIL misdeeds and her son should make same decision MIL did. Alrighty then. It's a daily affirmation to be honest. I was raised to help family in a very dysfunctional household at great personal cost. And there is pressure for women to take care of family members because many, not all, men have never absorbed how to do hands-on care. Now, I've given myself permission with extensive cognitive behavioral therapy to tell people NO in my life. Holding her son to a promise made when he was about 10-12? MIL worked in a nursing home - saw the Medicaid level conditions - and wanted family to promise "to make sure she would never end up there". I told husband that obviously not all his family got that message or promised. This summer FIL went to lawyer, rearranged finances so that MIL's care in AL/SNF due to Parkinson's would be paid for by Medicaid when FIL/MIL have nearly half a million in house and liquid assets. I told hubs at that point that I was not going to be more involved than hubs or BIL and my working 2 part time jobs doesn't make me responsible for managing her care. Since neither brother has stepped up to change MIL's situation with more than monthly visit? Not my circus, not my monkeys. Just dodge the poo (the main reason MIL is in facility with Parkinson's complications by the way).....

GSA, so your MIL is still reacting and attempting to make others conform to concepts and issues she observed years ago. That must have made quite an impression on her. I can feel sympathy for someone who worked in a facility and was so impacted by it that it influenced decisions years later, but one of the basic issues with these concepts that DILs or daughters, or other family members for that matter, is that we all have free will.

No one really has to be trapped by another's desire for care. We do it, and I'm sure others feel trapped as I often do, but the reality is that absent filial obligations case law, we really don't have the obligation to provide care if we don't want to.

I won't deny that I wrestle with this concept periodically, especially with the balance of level of care that I need for myself in order to provide for my father. I think this is always a challenging balance to find.

As I read your post, I thought of PTSD. Although your mother apparently didn't serve in the military, her experience in the nursing home seems to have left an indelible mark.

Perhaps that's what she needs, is some treatment for those events years ago. But it seems that she's married any trauma from then with an apparent sense of obligation by you, and that's not necessarily a treatable concept! She doesn't seem to recognize that you weren't brought into the family to provide long term or end of life care.

I compliment you and respect your decision and efforts to sort out familial obligations and respect yourself as you, and the rest of us should.

And given their financial situation, there's absolutely no justification for entrapping you into caregiving. I've mentioned before how revolted I was when I saw an elder care attorney advise a client how to realign his mother's ample finances so she could get (actually, I'd say "suck off) Medicaid. This repulses me; there are people who really need that help.

And good for you for sharing your story, your challenges, and your determination for self respect and independence.

I sometimes think this need for parents or older relatives to literally conscript others to care for them arises not only b/c they need the care, or b/c they need to be with others in their family, but just as much by the very obvious and probably frightening loss of care of their own lives, a sense of beginning to drift on an endless sea, with no rescue or support in sight....kind of a sense of being cast out of functional society and confined to a remaining life of limitations, loss of independence, loss of self confidence, and a whole lot more negative concepts.

I've often wondered what I'll do when I'm completely alone, and it is unsettling.

I have an East Asian M I L as I am married to an East Indian man. He is very Canadianized, mind you. I would rather be tarred and feathered than provide her care. She is the whiniest, most demanding, needy woman, I've ever had the misfortune to meet. But, having said that, I wouldn't become her caregiver even if she was an angel.

I took care of my Mom cause I adored her not out of obligation. If she had been an obnoxious old bat I wouldn't have. I don't think societies expectations should have anything to do with becoming a caregiver. I do understand that sometimes care homes are not an option because of lack of funds and in these cases people do what they must but I stand firm in my belief that no sense of obligation should dictate what a person does in these circumstances.

Gershun, your comments on your husband and MIL brought back memories of a time when my sister and I, and a friend boarded a bus to go to a women's lib event, maybe in NYC or DC. It was a loooong time ago.

The friend we had met in earlier meetings was telling us about her Indian MIL, who also had similar expectations that her DIL would eventually be caring for her. MIL should have accompanied us to the rally and she would become aware that that wasn't going to happen.

What took me by surprised was that my parents got older. Why a surprise? Growing up, we had lived many States away from the core families, thus I never got to witness people aging.

I always had dreams of my parents moving in with me... Mom would help with the housekeeping and cooking as she loved doing those things... and Dad enjoyed landscaping and keeping an active "honey-do" list. Thus, I could still maintain my career and have a happy married life.

Yeah, right, then reality struck. Hey, my folks were aging, what happened here???

Being an only child with no children... I had to scramble to be some type of caregiver. In no way, shape or form was I able to be a hands-on caregiver. Not in my DNA. Wasn't in my parents DNA, either, as neither did hands-on care for their own parents.

But I am sure if I had a brother, my folks wouldn't be asking him to help, well he would have a family to take care of. Oh how I remember that excuse whenever I went for a promotion at work, even though I had more education and more seniority.... [sigh].

My Mom was from the very old school... women should not be doctors, Senators, Governors, or even Sports Announcers.... they should be home having babies. Oops, no wonder I felt a cool chill from my Mom.

What is interesting is previewing U.S. Census from the 1880 to 1940's. Very common seeing an elder parent living with one of their grown children... usually a unmarried "spinster" or a daughter who had no children. But core families tend to have remained in the same town/city, and not unusual for siblings to have had 5 to 10 children, so a lot of hands to help out the elderly parents.

Somewhat off topic but - freqflyer, your comment regarding missing promotions in lieu of “family men” stuck a sore spot with me. An old one - but still...

It was the mid 80’s to early 90’s and after graduating college with a business degree I pursued a career in retail management. It was a field that came easy to me - bossing people around, shopping and I could sell ice to Eskimos. Sorry - hope that’s not racist these days.

Anyhoo - I was ambitious and chose to put off serious relationships and starting a family of my own as it allowed me to accept transfers - which always came with a promotion.

I can’t tell you the number of holidays I was scheduled to work - as the only manager on duty - because I “didn’t have a family”. This went for more than my fair share of weekend shifts as well.

Hmmm... I didn’t have a family? Just who were those two old people calling themselves my mother and father? My brothers and nephews? The occasional fiancé?

I’m afraid sexism is alive and well - still thriving in the 21st century. It just has a different look.

Well said about sexism still being alive. All anyone has to do to see this is read the recent articles about sexism in the tech industries.

Just yesterday on the radio, these 2 radio emcees were talking about how even up till today, there’s still discrimination on the earnings between a male and female. One of them brought up a recent event that happened last week on the air by another radio station duo. The duo had a strong accent so I’m not sure if they’re from England, Canada or Australia.

They just had their contract renewed. The female mentioned on air that her coworker is making $40,000 more than her. He was shocked. He assumed they were making the same pay. Nope, she said. You’re making more. He didn’t think that was fair. So, he said that he will insist on a pay cut to match her pay...

The woman said that feminism would not happen if it weren’t for men willing to side with them.... He said that if he didn’t give himself a pay cut, she would have quit. He didn’t want her to quit.

Along these lines, did anyone see Battle Of The Sexes? Recent movie based on Billie Jean King’s creation of a separate women’s tennis league where women were treated and paid fairly. Culminated in the infamous “battle of the sexes” match between BJK and Bobby Riggs. WHEW. Make you appreciate how far we’ve come since 1973.

Something that bothers me when people talk about inequality of pay they rationalize it by saying that women take time off to care for children, so don't keep up. IOW, it's the woman's fault. I am glad to see that young men are stepping up to the plate more now when it comes to children. I am hoping the archaic thoughts on women as mothers disappear in the next couple of generations.

I have a brother. He has never done anything for mom. He has no clue what our life is like. He only calls her about 4 times a year. I don't even really talk to him anymore. Sometimes I'll send him an e-mail, like if she takes a turn for the worse, just to let him know. To be honest, I don't even bother asking him to make a trip here to spell me off, because I would have to do the work of organizing everything in advance and teaching him the absolute basics of what to do, and then field 10,000 phone calls for help from him while I'm taking my break. It's reached the point where it's less work to maintain things the way they are.

I see this happen all the time with my friends. It's always the women doing the caregiving work. Sometimes if there are no daughters, it's the daughters-in-law doing all the work. I personally don't know one man (though I'm sure they must be out there somewhere) who does caregiving for his elderly parent(s), outside of a shopping trip or a ride here and there.

The expectation on women that we will just do this stuff is something we need to force change on, just as we've had to force change on women doing all the childcare. I've been seeing lots of articles in my Facebook feed lately on the unpaid emotional labour of women, on top of all the other unpaid labour we do....having to even ASK our brothers and husbands arms to participate in eldercare is part of that emotional labour, but eldercare never gets talked about in those articles. It frustrates me to no end. If I weren't so darned exhausted, I'd certainly be out there fighting for this as a feminist, because it is a gender equality issue. Maybe that's the problem though. We're too exhausted to fight. Sigh.