The Power of Emotional Blackmailers.

Hi Poster, we thought you'd gone! :)

I think your instinct that your mother isn't really in her right mind, so can't be to blame for what she says, is correct. At 92, and with dementia, it isn't so much that she speaks without thinking as that the thinking part doesn't really happen, or not as you'd recognise it.

Do what you think is right: if you're worried about her and *you* want to talk, then pick up the phone or drop in for a visit - after all it takes two to make a battle, even a battle of silence. But you still need to watch your back - keep it short and sweet to start with and see how it goes. Loving your mother does not mean you have to put up with insulting or abusive remarks. Nagging, though… isn't that in the mother's job description? Hang on to your patience as best you can.

Good luck, I hope you find her in fine fettle and a better temper. Hugs.

is anyone still contributing to this thread?

Since I last posted on here, I have not contacted my mother and she has not contacted me. It has now been 10 days. I wonder how long this will go on and who will end up contacting who? I am wondering whether I should contact her as she is 92 and in poor health. However she did say some very nasty things to me the last time but she has got dementia and should not be held accountable for what she said? I do find in all this who my true friends are.

Good for you, Gershun! I hear you!

Let me clear something up before this gets out of hand. Yes, my husband's behaviour is emotionally draining, stressful, the whole nine yards. But I still love him. I am not in any danger from him. I just want him to get the help he needs. I am a strong woman. If I thought this was hurting me to the point where I could not take it any more I would be gone. But I feel like the relationship is worth salvaging. Thank-you for the advice.

Just a very quick visit, but saw this and want to help.
The behaviors described here can be anything, any diagnosis, but also point to the male having Bipolar disorder, or Sociopathic/Psychopathic personality disorder.
In addition, there can be drug or alcohol abuse to complicate the diagnosis. This is called a dual diagnosis.
This does not mean there is not Borderline Personality Disorder or Narcissistic PD. Goes to Axis I , II, III, IV in the DSM. Diagnosis is not a DIY project.
For ones own safety, never confront this person, or play back their own words to them. CMagnum once described the narcissist as, after being confronted, will 'Go and scortch the earth.' Have I got that reference correct?
As you can understand, seeing a professional is required for more understanding.
One should start with a definitive diagnosis. As with most disorders mentioned, those with the diagnosis rarely seek treatment, but the person living with them is going to need it, plus a lot of support, not always from family members.
Make a life, a good life for yourself. Get help, make a plan. You are on the threshold of the opportunities for a real safe, happy, satisfying life.
If one decides to stay, get insight and skills, take dancing lessons-means: 'I am dancing as fast as I can!'.
So sorry that anyone has gone through this. Take care of yourself.

Gershun, you know that you don't have to live the rest of your life under this cloud of his behavior. Do you have a profession, a job, a career? Can you support yourself? Given the stress he's caused, and his behavior that probably won't change, have you considered leaving and creating a happier life for yourself?

1. They'd validate what you are dealing with. 2. They would give you suggestions on how to deal with this. 3. They would help you with boundaries and consequences instead of continuing to walk on eggshells. At least get the book about walking on eggshells that's a classic in its second edition and the workbook to use their suggestions about stopping walking on eggshells.

The thing is. They will hear the messages and then what. I'd rather play them back for him actually. Cause I honestly don't think he knows how he comes across.
Maybe I will. He'll probably say "Oh thats not me"

Can you make a recording of those recorded messages? If so, I'd take those to a therapist. For example, if you have a smart phone, you may be able to record it as a voice message if that app lasts that long?

Actually speaking of answering machines. I've come home and played his messages back and you would think there were three different people on the machine. The first message soft and nice. The second like an angry crazed person. The third nice again. Maybe he has multiple personality disorder too.

Thanks for the new word of my vocabulary. frenetic His mother and passive father may have been the source of him feeling invalidated. She sounds mentally ill herself.

Since he does this in secret mainly alone with you, your family understanding and believing this is understandable. Too bad you don't have a recording or video to share with them, but since you never know that would not be possible to set up unless he went into an irrational rage on the answering machine when calling home. A friend of mine used such recordings to prove that his wife had multiple personalities.

I think they have a hard time believing me cause he has been so nice with them. Although there have been incidents where my brother has caught him trying to control me. Something very innocuous but still very revealing. It was summer and my husband kept asking me to wear his baseball cap. I hate wearing hats. He wouldn't let it go. Finally my brother stepped in and said "I think she said she didn't want to wear it"

His family are extremely dysfunctional. His Dad is very passive. His Mom is a frenetic mess. Extremely highstrung. Tried to commit suicide at one time. His sisters are manipulative and spoiled. He has no brothers. He carries on with his family much the same way he is with me. In fact when I first met him and saw how he treated his family alarm bells went off but I ignored them. Have lived to regret that.

People with BPD live a "I Hate You Don't Leave Me" life which often leads them to attempt and sometimes do a good job of isolating their spouse from others so that they will not tell them. I'm glad you are no longer alone. What has your family said back to you?

What is his family like?

Magnum I actually only just recently let my family know what is going on. My husband has always charmed his way through the family gatherings. When in the car with me he was a pouty, whiny brat cursing the whole way there. Then as soon as we enter someone's house suddenly the sun comes out again.

I always say to him if you can put on a nice act for everyone else why can't you just carry on and put that same act on for me. His response "What act?"

BPD charm is one of their many masks. It's almost like they can read us for what kind of mask would work to "hoover" us back in. As you have experienced, they can't keep the mask on for very long.

Professionals have yet to fully understand the causes of BPD. At the heart of it is either some real or perceived invalidation usually by a parent. Some think, it takes a narcissist to raise a person who ends up with BPD. However earlier theories about being victims of abuse or certain types of families have all been found to have holes in them. Personally, I think these folks are born with a higher sense of sensitivity to their own feelings and something happens that leads them to feel invalidated that may be more of a matter of perception or a matter of some reality.

It is treatable with group therapy, DBT, individual cognitive behavioral therapy, and some meds which means involving a psychiatrist. The person has first got to see the need for this. Setting boundaries with some concrete consequences possibly might wake a person up, but that is not the purpose of boundaries. Boundaries are for self protection. Dealing with setting those up with good consequences is where a good, experienced therapist with those married to someone with BPD is a life saving resource.

Only the self aware and highly motivated persons with BPD work on managing the inner turmoil which leads to irrational rages when triggered; stick with the process; and make progress which is possible.

Thank-you Magnum for your advice. You have got that so right. The switch from being very mean to being almost seductively nice. Right on the money. Very manipulative as well. When I've almost reached my breaking point, he can really turn on the charm which leads me to believe that he does know what he is doing. I used to think this was something he had no control over but ..............the big but right?

He must be a high functioning borderline who unloads it all at home with you. You are stronger than most who would have left long ago. There is an anonymous support group online for those in a relationship with someone who has BPD at a site called BPDCentral.

The switch in moods and not remembering the bad one is so typical. From my own experience they can be mean as H and then be so almost seductively nice, but not remember being mean.

Please get yourself into therapy for your own good.

Magnum I have been with this man for 22 yrs. The extreme moodiness started probably six mths. into our relationship. The warning signs were there from the beginning. He has held down jobs. Now he chooses to do contracts that sometimes take him away for mths. at a time. He has just started one that will have him gone for two mths. I usually use this time for me. To compress, relax and see things from a different perspective, one that isn't focused on him and how to deflect from his black periods.

Gershun, a person with Borderline Personality Disorder does emotionally blackmail as does someone with narcissistic personality disorder. I hope you have read my posts near the very start of this thread dated Jan 21, 2015 and Jan 21, 2015;

How long has this moodiness been going on?

The literature on this strongly suggests that the spouse who does not have borderline personality disorder get themselves into therapy for their own well being.

Here is a list of books that might help you.

Forward, Susan. Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You. NY: Harper-Collins Publishers, 1997.

Kreger, Randi The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells.

Kreger, Randi, with James Paul Shirely. The Stop Walking on Eggshells Workbook

Porr, Valerie. Marsha M Linehan (forward), When Someone You Love Has Borderline Personality Disorder: How to Repair the Relationship

Manning Shari Y., and Marsha M. Linehan. Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder: How to Keep Out-of-Control Emotions from Destroying Your Relationship

Tinman, Ozzie. One Way Ticket to Kansas: Caring about Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder and Finding a Healthy You

Keep in touch and let us know how you are doing!

Borderline Personality Disorder is a very serious mental illness. Can your husband hold a job?

Read about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Find yourself a therapist who can help YOU draw boundaries.

Magnum I didn't read the whole thread but I think my husband has Borderline Personality Disorder. Is that another form of being an emotional blackmailer?

He manipulates with his moodiness. I find myself jumping through hoops just to get him to snap out of his moods. When he is happy he forgets that he was being a jerk 5 minutes ago. Trying to adjust myself to his moods sucks the very life out of me. Walking on eggshells is an understatement.

I have been given a lot of good advice and am thankful for that. I have decided to take a little break from posting about this now. There is nothing more I can say really. I am having a break from my mother and she has not contacted me. I can however continue to read this site and things of benefit.

I haven't read the whole thread but just skimmed through, and was shocked to see how much of an issue has arisen due to how Poster wears her hair.

Poster, this is what someone I know said when her husband stated he would like her to wear her hair in a different style. She told him: "It's my hair. I'll wear it the way I want to. I don't tell you how to wear your hair; don't try to tell me." End of discussion.

Another comment you could make is just say "Sorry you don't like it but I don't think your hair style suits you as well."

From what I've read, your mother puts you in a position of having to defend yourself as to something insignificant, such as how you wear your hair. Once you're in that defensive mode, you're more vulnerable. And that control extends because the issue is so insignificant, but she's made it a point of contention.

I've encountered this from overbearing people as well; for some reason they need to dominate any situation.

Poster, whether it's "just" dementia or other mental illness, you have no obligation to take your mother's comments into account.

To take a step back from the situation or else I will seriously stress myself out. Also to just enjoy my life doing the things that make me happy with people who treat me with respect. I know my mother is not well and she cannot help it, but to be called names etc can be demoralising so I think I need to take a break without feeling guilty about it.

poster with all of the input that you have gathered up about this situation, what plan of action have you developed at this point?

Hi yes I am talking to friends who have been supportive. Also as you know I am on here which has been a great help. Apart from that I am not speaking to anyone else.

She pities you? Hm. Interesting.

Hey, she's the one who's in a care home fretting about whether her daughter's warned the hairdresser that her dad had an alcohol problem..! And you're the one who knows that your mother is not well.

Darling girl, you don't *have* to do anything. You can detach as much as you need to. But if you want to do something, if you think you can both benefit your mother's health and wellbeing and feel more at ease yourself, then there are people you can talk to without disrespecting your mother's wishes, or her right to autonomy to use the jargon.

You can ask for a meeting with her named key worker for a general chat about how she is doing, and take it from there. It may not get anywhere, but it can't possibly do any harm and it could be a start.

You can find out if your mother's been referred to a memory clinic.

You can ask if there is a mental health nurse visiting the home, and if so if you could talk to him/her about your mother and get his/her perspective on what's going on.

The point is that you're starting a conversation. You're not divulging private information that your mother has asked you not to share. Moreover, you are right to be concerned that she may need help and you are acting in her best interests if you create the possibility of her getting help.

But you don't *have* to. The primary responsibility for your mother's physical and mental wellbeing lies with her care home's staff, not with you; and that reality is her creation, not yours. Leaving them to do their job is a legitimate option. And if you're not comfortable talking to anyone about her, you can let things be, and take care of yourself by limiting how often you visit her and for how long, and walking away if you begin to feel hurt or upset by her.

Are you talking to anyone about how you feel, and about what's going on? Friends, your own doctor, carers' support groups?

One thing my mother said to me is I pity you. I know she is ill but she told me specifically not to mention any of this to the care home. I respect her wishes, but they only see one side of her and she does not want anyone there to know that she has been verbally abusing me. How can she get help if nobody knows