People are selfish! am so very careful while the rest of the family ignores the social distancing recommendations knowing I will care for mom.

Yes, it's true. This crisis has showcased all the heroes like healthcare workers, law enforcement officers, essential workers like truck drivers, food store employees, etc. ,but, it has also shown the darker and horrific nature of so many citizens who are more concerned with their own selfish, spoiled asp pleasures than other people's lives! It's offensive and beyond reprehensible. I wish these people could be shamed, but, they have no shame. Well, we know what they are now.

This whole COVID thing has turned the world into a scary, depressing place. I know it has amped up my PTSD something serious. And I live in a state where we have relatively few cases and I personally do not know a soul who has it or has a relative who has it, but I still mask up and socially distance.

Yesterday, during a quick run to Lowe's, about half the customers were masked. Half weren't. There was a semblance of distancing, but you're trying to roll these huge flat bed carts and they just take ROOM. Standing in the checkout (6' apart) my fellow shoppers and I were chatting and the consensus was that we are all sheep, stupid, don't know what to do, don't know what's right or if we are even containing this virus or if in the end--it will go down as being a huge folly.

YET-- I mask up and go nowhere. My anxiety and depression are off the charts. My psych doc will NOT prescribe anything else, even temporarily for the anxiety. I TOLD HIM I was feeling suicidal ideations and he blew me off. Said that I could join a 'anxiety support group' BUT they're not meeting until this is over. HELLO.

No. I am not going to hurt myself, but I am so stressed with DH being home 24/7, being a real pain. I am not used to him being home and he is hanging on my last nerve. We were in the house together all day yesterday and did not say one word to each other.

It's hard--I'm being a 'good citizen' and yet I see groups of people having front yard parties and packed stores and I wonder WHY am I being so compliant???

I agree, there are plenty of people out there who may or may not be spreading this virus, but they sure are proud of flaunting the 'rules'. Makes me crazy!

Sunnygirl, I completely agree. There are so many positive efforts being displayed, so many sacrifices on the part of medical, first responders, volunteers, and unprotected first line workers, as well as those in care facilities, but so much intense self interest, selfishness and irresponsibility on the part of those who think that their lives should go on as usual, as if life should cater to them.

I think the probably extensive data that researchers will produce will reflect more demographic data, including data that reflects vulnerability such as addiction to drugs or alcohol, poor lifestyles, poor nutrition choices, and other characteristics which may have rendered some people more vulnerable.

Contact tracing can also reveal how people really either adhered to guidelines or didn't.

I read yesterday that some people are participating in "infection" parties, consorting with those who may or have had the virus so that these wannabe volunteers can "get infected", "get it over with" and return to their lifestyles. The stupidity of that is beyond description.

Midkid, you're being compliant because you're intelligent, responsible, and b/c it's the right thing to do, for yourself, your family and for the benefit of others. It's being a good human being.

I still don’t think the maskless, space invaders understand that the mask they wear is for ME, I wear my mask for THEIR protection. It’s such a slap in the face to my safety, as well as other vulnerable adults and children! While I feel enormous gratitude and respect for some who are going beyond their duty....I have developed a real hatred ( I rarely use that word.) for a lot of people too. And it’s sad, because I know these people. They aren’t strangers on the street.

Sunnygirl, I've been thinking a lot about the noncompliance, which I think sometimes is from ignorance, but also arises from (a) refusal to educate oneself on the danger of being out in public w/o mask protection (b) refusal to accept orders and governance even if they are offensive but deemed necessary for the public good (and within reason) and (c) complete lack of how people sacrifice and pull together during really challenging and life threatening times.

I remember that at my last job there were 2 so-called secretaries who were more interested in finding men through online searches than in doing their work. The fact that they had obligations which weren't being fulfilled didn't seem to bother them. They had no responsibility for themselves and obligations to the attorneys and the firm. THEY were the only ones who mattered.

I see that same attitude in the current defiance. I think it's a factor in the 3 issues identified above.

There's also a lack of responsibility to and for oneself, a self sufficiency that earlier generations had, and a willingness to compromise for the greater good. I also think there's a broader undercurrent in lack of self responsibility and direction, something I saw years ago when kids just kept going to college. I remember one guy who finished his Bachelors, said he still didn't know what he wanted to do with himself, so he'd get a Masters (with a student loan). The thought of getting a part time job to help with his tuition didn't enter his mind.

That was one reason I disliked day classes and took most of my courses at night: the students were like me, older, working if not self supporting, and had definite goals.

I've met others with no goals, just drifting through life. How this develops is something that's hard for me to understand. But I think it contributes to a lack of responsibility and self sufficiency.

One of the aspects I like about the Masterpiece series are the British ones set during WWII. Other than 9-1-1, our generation has no experience with that kind of sacrifice. For me, it's "me, me and me again".

Fortunately, not only our but the younger generations have produced the valiant people who are willing to work on the front lines, whether in medical or law enforcement, military or education, in stocking food pantries, delivering goods, and helping other...people who do have the temperament and natures to make sacrifices for the greater good.

@ GardenArtist

"I think the probably extensive data that researchers will produce will reflect more demographic data, including data that reflects vulnerability such as addiction to drugs or alcohol, poor lifestyles, poor nutrition choices, and other characteristics which may have rendered some people more vulnerable."

I have found this recently, linking Selenium deficiency to the worse cases of COVID. Apparently, both Wuhan and NYC are in areas where there is an important Selenium deficiency in population.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200429105907.htm

I read today that in my country 58% of people are against all lockdown measures and want everything open and working, right now, no matter how many people still die every day. This percentage reflects quite well in the people that I talk with.

It really feels like the world is split between 2 types of individuals, and my impression is that it's not just related to wealth /type of work.
I have wondered in disbielief how and why some people just don't seem to "get it". They are against the government, the rules, but they are the first to enroll for the emergency benefits. They protest, they argue, as if their individuality depends on this. As if being "imposed" something is destroying their sense of self. They fear the sadness that comes from being deprived of liberties, without considering the sadness of people dying alone in hospitals, with no loved ones to say goodbye to, or the sadness of doctors who had to choose who to save. How such a short-sighted vision is even possible, in a moment like this, is just mindblowing. I'm genuinely thinking, is it a matter of evolution, here? It looks some sort of reptilian brain, whith nothing resembling empathy...

Arwen, thanks for sharing that. I'm going to research which foods have selenium and make sure I get plenty of them!

I think you've very succinctly summarized the gap between those who comply and those who don't, including the willingness to avail themselves of benefits but the lack of cooperation with the entities that create restrictions. I'm not convinced some are effective, especially ones like closing restaurants but allowing bars to remain open, which was a condition a few weeks back.

There's a definite lack of cooperation, of resistance, and sometimes that's associated with political beliefs.

Personally though, I think that triage should be done among incoming patients, and that would arise from whether or not they had taken proper precautions. Those who don't wear masks and practice distancing should be triaged lower than those who cooperate. There has to be some kind of consideration for the ones irresponsible enough to risk infecting others. Why should first responders risk their lives with a non-cooperative person? I wouldn't.

The other day I spoke with someone who was interested in my father's house. She redirected the conversation to compliance, whining because she didn't want to (and didn't) comply with Wal-Mart's one directional aisles. So she ignored the signs and walked the wrong way down the aisle.

(I cut the conversation short as I knew I wasn't going to waste time with someone that stupid.)

How many times we see on the door of a store "no shirt, no shoes, no service". Owners should add "no mask" to that list.

Here in my area, the subdivision where I live, you can tell people are taking this seriously. There is social distancing when people are out for walks, and dog walking, or even chatting with neighbors. By all of the cars in the driveways, that tells me people are staying home.

My boss whats to get us back to the office, but I told him I am not ready to do that. When I know he's not at the office, I will go in to do some quick work that I couldn't do at home. My boss is one of those who just cannot stay home, and here he is a much older senior with underling health issue.... [sigh].

But then again, you see our President and his staff not keeping social distancing and going maskless, so there are those outside the White House who believe they can do the same thing. We need high profile compliance role models to get the message across.

GardenArtist, you are more than welcome :)

Yes, I agree on all you say.

Our cafés and bars have re-opened last Monday, strictly for take-aways only.
Now they are risking closing again because on Thursday people stopped in large groups and without masks to drink in the street in front of the bars. So, the very people who think they are on the side of "freedom" and "economy" are the ones who are already putting it at risk, after 4 days. How very smart.

About different triage priority, that would be just fair.
Here not complying is a criminal offence. You would think it is enough. Apparently it is not. I think that something that could work even more than a fine and the threat to go to jail would be a forced "volunteering" month in a IC unit. In a COVID hospital. That would scare some people just nicely. Even better, it could be a great life experience, that they apparently lack of.

Seems to me I'm listening to SO many people who are having their 'constitutional rights' violated by being asked to wear masks in public. Churches suing governments for 'breaking the law' and preventing their 'right to congregate'. Protesters screaming in rage and hatred towards those who are trying to protect them. People organizing COVID19 parties of 40 or more people, inviting someone who's infected so they can ALL get infected and 'get it over with', not taking into consideration the OTHERS they will infect by their selfish (and ridiculous) behavior. Oh yeah, I forgot, it's only the 'old' people who will die anyway, or the fat people, or those who should die anyway because of their poor lifestyle choices, or whatever propaganda du jour is being pedaled. Let's ignore the 2 young children who just died in NYC from COVID19 complications. That doesn't count. Or the 30 year old who's heart valve burst due to blood clots from COVID19. Oh, well, he doesn't count either, because apparently, My Rights are more important than His Life.

And I want to go out to eat! And see a concert! WAHHHHHHHH. And get my nails done! And the government is stripping away MY RIGHTS to do so. So I will spread around a ton of conspiracy theories to let everyone know why the government PLANNED this outbreak and WANTS us all to get sick! Or how the vaccines that will be 'forced on us' will also insert a microchip into our forearms and 'tattoo' us like they did in Nazi Germany. Why not push harmful, hateful, dangerous 'theories' that have no basis in fact or even common sense. Why not tell everyone who will listen that this virus is nothing but a big fat HOAX! Forget about the fact that more than 4 million cases have been reported globally, and more than 280,000 people have died so far. After all, what's TRULY important is My Rights and How They Are Being Violated!

The more I see of people, the more I love my dog.

I am almost 63 with a sensitive system, bad asthma and lots of allergies. Like a poster child for who should NOT get this virus to 'see what happens'. I don't want to find out. My mother is 93 and lives in Memory Care where there are no outbreaks, yet. Every day I wonder if DH or myself or my mother will get this virus and then what we'll do once it happens. So I stay home while DH goes to work, and we take all the precautions and listen to ALL the hype and carrying on by SO MANY people, it's disgusting. And then to listen to others telling ME how paranoid and crazy and brainwashed I am for 'hiding out' and wearing a mask. Give. Me. A. Break.

Makes me ashamed to be an American sometimes, it really does. I'm turning OFF the mass hysteria known as the 'news' and 'social media' and planning to watch something like a marathon of American Pickers tonight & tomorrow. Oh, and selling a bunch of treasures on eBay and focusing my energies there instead of on reading things that rile me up.

I am with you, my dear. No question here, either. Just pissed and venting myself.

PS: Arwen, I did read yesterday that it may be people who are very low on Vit. D who are suffering most of the bad effects from the virus. Again, another 'theory' but an easy one to fix.

Lealonnie, you are absolutely correct about people during this pandemic. Let them think what they want about hiding out. I loved my dog better than most people too. We have been self quarantine for two months with family and no one complains and I am so proud of them. I call people screwballs for not taking this serious. I banned my brother from coming to our house, I told him we can talk on the phone. I told him he needs to change his clothes, take a shower and wear a mask before entering our home and stay six feet from all of us, if he wants to visit. He said he would not do that. He understands, and did not get upset. I am strict, no one enters this house except the RN when she visits my mother once a week. I think the UPS guy thinks we are a little crazy, we act like he has the plague. My niece runs around like a nut, and I am yelling wait, wait I have to put my mask on.. I wear two masks one surgical and the other homemade. A little nutty but I want to be safe. I have to check the packages before the UPS guy leaves due to buying something online and company charged me double. I hardly buy anything online. I always have problems. Take care and stay safe, lealonnie. Hugs to you!

FreqFlyer: The people in the White House are now facing the fact that a Navy man has tested positive, as has someone on Pence's staff. Dr. Fauci is self quarantining, as are others. And 11 Secret Service members are infected, 23 have recovered, and 60 are in self quarantine.

Yet the highest positions held are by those who show little respect for mask wearing, having appeared not only in public but one in a hospital, w/o a mask. What does that tell those who need to be guided into compliance?

You wrote: "We need high profile compliance role models to get the message across." YES, YES, to the nth power!

Arwen wrote about noncompliance: "...forced "volunteering" month in a IC unit. In a COVID hospital. " YES. Absolutely. They could run errands for the front line workers, become exposed to the virus, and see how dangerous it is. But of course they don't feel it necessary to mask, so if they're infected, serves them right.

Lealonnie, I so agree with your position.

Pence visited Mayo clinic on Tuesday and ignored the CDC guidelines and hospital policy at the Mayo clinic. Hospital administration, staff, doctors and nurses all wearing masks He stated he is tested frequently for the coronavirus. Pence follows the leader. Citizens are getting arrested, fined and put in jail while our government thinks they are above wearing masks and putting people at risk, it is sending a wrong message to the public. Very poor, indeed.

If you are going to attack, you should also acknowledge that later Pence acknowledged that he was wrong, and should have worn a mask. He did wear a mask on a trip to General Motors a couple of days later.

I've had a few people tell me the situation isn't as bad as presented by media and others. I've suggested that they call my two family members who are nurses in NYS and ask them about their experiences (one is in SNF, the other is in a hospital). A previously healthy 40-something man was on a vent for 3 weeks. He'll be released to rehab, now using a walker with compromised lungs from 3 weeks on a vent. People may be recovering but with what long term effects? I did read today that a nationwide buffet salad chain is closing. People were quick to assume it was because of governors being too quick to shut everything down. It turns out that the FDA had recommended ceasing all serve oneself options - salad bars, food buffets. Another one for my growing "I hadn't thought about that" list. As for our leaders being masked or self quarantining -- any manager will tell you that leaders lead best by example for their employees - whether it's wearing OSHA required gear on a construction site or masks and other protocols at the White House.

Linda22, good insights and observations.

I've just read that the virus is manifesting itself in more ways; it seems there are some consistencies, but also surprises. The full extent of how the virus attacks the body is still a work in progress...unfortunately.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/doctors-keep-discovering-new-ways-the-coronavirus-attacks-the-body/ar-BB13SoPn?ocid=msedgntp

And your suggestion that those who don't accept the seriousness of the virus ask first line responders is wise; they're the ones who can relate first hand and from experience how serious and dangerous the virus is, including to them, and especially if they haven't been provided with adequate protective gear through their hospitals.

I have a suspicion that there still are transmission methods that haven't been realized or identified, but with noncompliance by some, it's hard to identify other potential methods of transmission.

People are laughing and ridiculing me for my strict efforts to social distance.
A store clerk came up to my husband in line, started talking to him, and then patted him on the back. Left that market immediately.

But I am the bad guy?

So, I have a Facebook friend who posted this today:

"Anyone who knows me, knows I am a realist. I don’t bury my head in the sand. I do my homework (still love those skills I learned as a good student)
Y’all also know I am a girl who sees the glass as half-full.
These days it’s kinda hard to balance both of these. I know for me to live in Panic Mode is not good for my health.
So, the student in me & the positive gal in my heart, leads me to focus myself. I am going to choose Facts over Fear along with Faith over Fear!
Before anyone decides to flood my wall with the Death Stats, etc.... I am well aware of them.... heck anyone on the planet should be...it’s literally in our faces 24/7.
From my Glass Half-Full view:
Here are the survival Rates of COVID-19 by Country: (I don't recognize all the flags)
99.983% USA
99.956%
99.944%
99.957%
99.965%
99.972%
99.975%
Maybe if we looked at it this way, we'd realize the panic is out of control."

There are 6 "AMEN" comments and demands to OPEN THE COUNTRY NOW!

I wrote a comment which was DELETED that said, My daughter is a front line nurse in a COVID-19 unit at a hospital in downtown Denver. She's had to call in sick for a few days last week due to emotional trauma because of caring for, and watching, so many people die from the virus. Unfortunately, many of us only see things from one perspective.

I have now put this friend on Snooze for 30 days. I may just unfriend her entirely since the rest of her crap is all conspiracy theory related. Funny, too, how she's always insisting she's a 'woman of faith' and such a good Christian. What I'd like to know is this: are the 285,000 people who have died so far from this virus not 'good Christians' or people 'of faith'? Are only 'people of faith' spared from this virus? Come on, get a grip!

Most of the people on our forum are in the high risk group or we're taking care of someone who is. We see CV as an immediate threat. I know I feel neither my mother nor I am unlikely to survive if we become infected. For the most part we have an income; either from retirement, work from home, essential work, or a spouse working from home. For most younger people, 98+% can expect to survive CV with little to no long term problems and they have (as a group) experienced much more income disruption. We are worried about CV ending our life; the younger crowd doesn't see a threat to their continued breathing but they do see a threat to their ability to continue their life in the apartment/house and lifestyle they chose. Many people who do not feel threaten by CV and have been working from home with no income disruption are just "tired" of not being able to go out and meet with friends or vacation.

Most of the protests are coming from areas where the state governments have made very bad choices in stay at home; either with unneeded restrictions on travel to visit family, purchasing gardening supplies or allowing gyms to reopen while keeping salons closed, regardless of social distancing changes. Why should a salon with four stations 10' apart be unable to accept customers by appointment (maximum number of people in the salon at any time is less than 10). I don't need a nanny state. Require basic health preserving actions and allow people to decide the level of risk they want to take SO LONG AS LOCAL INFECTION RATES DO NOT THREATEN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM CAPACITY. My nephew took his family to a restaurant dining room a week ago (in a county with 14 total infections, 2 hospitalizations and 1 death); I didn't and I won't be anytime soon. As those healthier people become infected and recover, we are building toward a herd immunity.

As much as we want folks to show consideration with social distancing, we also need to show at least some consideration for the low risk of CV consequences working people who want to continue living too.