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I was told by the Admin that that money in her account goes back to the state. In the meantime, my dad is in this same nursing home (they were in the same room) and no it does not go to him... and yes, I am POA for both of them... Please advise.
Imo if NH is telling you “$ goes to the State” then what is happening is that both your mom & Dad are/were in that NH with their States LTC Medicaid program paying. Now it does not necessarily all go to the State….. it’s way more nuanced but the Nh - I bet - has found it’s simpler to just say this and not go into the details as to the account breakdown as it’s PIA complicated.
But I will….. so when as a couple both are on LTC Medicaid, it is for most States they can have a maximum of 3K in assets. It is not the usual 2K per individual but 3K total. That 3K in assets could be held in their old banking account OR it could be held at the NH in their Personal Needs Allowance account. Whatever the case, they cannot exceed total of 3K as a couple. If this is what was done and the $ held at the NH, your Dad should still have his own PNA $ which gets his 50% from it IF BEFORE HER DEATH the NH held it as a couples PNA account or whatever $ amt that keeps him under single applicant 2K max in assets that most States use. You need to find out how the PNA was held for each. So that Dad isn’t shortchanged. HOWEVER….. before you get excited that there is $ there, mom needs to have her bill at the NH zeroed out…
They each are/were required to have their income (like SS income) paid to the NH every mo as required Share of Cost / SOC less the Personal Needs Allowance. Let’s say that for your State, PNA $75 each. Now NH has to be paid in full for the month. If they both placed the NH to be their representative payee for their SSA $ and all other retirements, then NH got their income directly and used it for the required SOC and placed the $75 a mo each PNA $ into the at the NH in house PNA trust account. BUT IF mom did not live the full month, that months SSA $ will be clawed back from the rep payee account the NH has for mom. The NH has to be paid and they can use the $ in the PNA account to zero out moms NH balance. Also Nh can charge for not paid by LTC Medicaid items. Like cable, in room phone. Could add up to almost all PNA $. Bet both these happened.
There should have been paperwork to establish how PNA $ set up & could have had a POD or TOD /pay on death or transfer on death attached to it which named someone to be the beneficiary of the account. PNA is basically a savings account. States require NH to pay interest on its balance. Interest is fairly negligible but a requirement. Also a requirement that the NH send a statement every 90 days to whomever they have on file for this for the elder.
But often if the NH is the rep payee and no POD or TOD done, all the details held by the NH. Those every 90 day statements flat does not get done and does not have to as the elder did not name someone. My mom was in 2 NH and 1 did and 1 didn’t. The one that didn’t was a hot mess on bookkeeping, paperwork shambles and I moved her once fully LTC Medicaid eligible. Her PNA had always under $200 in it. When my mom died, the balance of the PNA at eons better NH#2 was sent to me via a check in my name abt 60 days after death. Mom signed off POD to me. Her account 100% current when she died so no outstanding bill. No rep payee done as I wrote a check to the NH every month for the required SOC. Plus it transfers outside of probate so not an asset of her Estate. Again not an Asset of her Estate for probate. She did the same on her bank account, so it too transfer to me outside of probate.
Please pause to think if mom could have a balance due and what was done for POD to that NH PNA account. You want to find this out and then do whatever you can now as your Dads POA to get his stuff set up to be POD or TOD to you so whatever went on with mom doesn’t happen with dad. Remember he as an individual on LTC Medicaid is allowed to have up to 2K in exempt assets for most States. You do have to be mindful that it plus his PNA mo $ combined does not exceed the 2K.
Was Mom on Medicaid? Is that money that Medicaid allows in assets? Was it her Personal Needs Acct? Both the assets allowed and the PNA acct are part of Moms estate. Medicaid is not entitled to that money or the NH. All States are different, so call Moms caseworker and confirm what I have said.
If your mother was on Medicaid, then the nursing home is likely correct. Medicaid will have been paying for her care. Medicaid is able to access her assets to reimburse themselves/(taxpayers out of what is your mom's estate. Since you have a living father, also still in need perhaps of taxpayer/Medicaid help in financing needed care, his own assets will be unlikely to be touched in any way until his own death. But having another spouse living does complicate things, and you may wish to consult an elder care attorney or probate attorney now. Especially if you are your mom's executor on a will.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
But I will….. so when as a couple both are on LTC Medicaid, it is for most States they can have a maximum of 3K in assets. It is not the usual 2K per individual but 3K total. That 3K in assets could be held in their old banking account OR it could be held at the NH in their Personal Needs Allowance account. Whatever the case, they cannot exceed total of 3K as a couple. If this is what was done and the $ held at the NH, your Dad should still have his own PNA $ which gets his 50% from it IF BEFORE HER DEATH the NH held it as a couples PNA account or whatever $ amt that keeps him under single applicant 2K max in assets that most States use. You need to find out how the PNA was held for each. So that Dad isn’t shortchanged.
HOWEVER…..
before you get excited that there is $ there, mom needs to have her bill at the NH zeroed out…
They each are/were required to have their income (like SS income) paid to the NH every mo as required Share of Cost / SOC less the Personal Needs Allowance. Let’s say that for your State, PNA $75 each. Now NH has to be paid in full for the month. If they both placed the NH to be their representative payee for their SSA $ and all other retirements, then NH got their income directly and used it for the required SOC and placed the $75 a mo each PNA $ into the at the NH in house PNA trust account. BUT IF mom did not live the full month, that months SSA $ will be clawed back from the rep payee account the NH has for mom. The NH has to be paid and they can use the $ in the PNA account to zero out moms NH balance. Also Nh can charge for not paid by LTC Medicaid items. Like cable, in room phone. Could add up to almost all PNA $. Bet both these happened.
There should have been paperwork to establish how PNA $ set up & could have had a POD or TOD /pay on death or transfer on death attached to it which named someone to be the beneficiary of the account. PNA is basically a savings account. States require NH to pay interest on its balance. Interest is fairly negligible but a requirement. Also a requirement that the NH send a statement every 90 days to whomever they have on file for this for the elder.
But often if the NH is the rep payee and no POD or TOD done, all the details held by the NH. Those every 90 day statements flat does not get done and does not have to as the elder did not name someone. My mom was in 2 NH and 1 did and 1 didn’t. The one that didn’t was a hot mess on bookkeeping, paperwork shambles and I moved her once fully LTC Medicaid eligible. Her PNA had always under $200 in it. When my mom died, the balance of the PNA at eons better NH#2 was sent to me via a check in my name abt 60 days after death. Mom signed off POD to me. Her account 100% current when she died so no outstanding bill. No rep payee done as I wrote a check to the NH every month for the required SOC. Plus it transfers outside of probate so not an asset of her Estate. Again not an Asset of her Estate for probate. She did the same on her bank account, so it too transfer to me outside of probate.
Please pause to think if mom could have a balance due and what was done for POD to that NH PNA account. You want to find this out and then do whatever you can now as your Dads POA to get his stuff set up to be POD or TOD to you so whatever went on with mom doesn’t happen with dad. Remember he as an individual on LTC Medicaid is allowed to have up to 2K in exempt assets for most States. You do have to be mindful that it plus his PNA mo $ combined does not exceed the 2K.
Since you have a living father, also still in need perhaps of taxpayer/Medicaid help in financing needed care, his own assets will be unlikely to be touched in any way until his own death. But having another spouse living does complicate things, and you may wish to consult an elder care attorney or probate attorney now. Especially if you are your mom's executor on a will.
Good luck.