It's been a hard week....

Polar - his behaviour is so absurd and downright selfish now it gets easier for me. Before he used to mildly try it on and I'd feel guilty and go.

Now I've pushed back a little hes shown he will go to any lengths to get what he wants. And the fact that hes demonstrated (and said!) that my family don't matter as well.

Glastonbury music festival! The greatest music festival on the planet (90 mins from where we live).... Got lots of stuff on there, including kids stuff etc. (Do you get Basil Brush in the USA?). My 6 year old loves it there. On the adult music side of things The Cure, The Killers (from Las Vegas I believe), Kylie Minogue and lots of others. We're going Wednesday, daughter is coming home friday night to stay with gran for a few days (Sat/Sun is more the adult bands).

Getting a ticket is VERY difficult. 150,000 sold out in 25 minutes last september. I ain't cancelling!

Llama- yep thats him to a tee. He seems to think I need permission off his to do things... He really does think my focus should be on him all the time.

Disgusted/Pamzi - yep he'll be staying there as well. Im not cutting it short because I know the chance of it being genuine is very slim.

Margaret - I might just do that. There is no way on earth this man has willingly taken on 2 toddlers when he split up with my mother. No way in a million years.

Jasmina - Its scary how he fits the profile of a narc so well. Its really strange.... Some of his behaviour is spot on. I've always said its not so much about needs and wants with Dad its the feeling of being in control.

901am this morning Im in work. Dad calls me. "So are you coming tonight. I need food". NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

905am. Brother is ringing. (I know whats happened here!). Didn't answer. Both numbers now blocked.

I might leave it this way until I get home from Glastonbury...

"He KNEW full well I was busy .... but he still has to have a go ..... I just let it wash over me and ignored it. ..... its getting so obvious with his awful selfish behaviour I don't feel guilty any more."

Paul, you're getting better at this. Yes, ignore his tiresome complaints and selfish behaviour. As your thinking changes, so will your actions. Good job, Paul.

Paul - to add on to the comment from disgustedtoo, tell him, once in the hospital, you think it's a good idea to talk to social workers (or whatever title used in UK) about his needs, and whether they think he should continue to live alone, or it's better for him to live in an assisted living facility. If that's the case, the social worker can help make the arrangement.

This serves two purposes. First, if he doesn't want to deal with a social worker doing any kind of needs assessment on him, then he may not want to purposely fall just to get into the hospital for fear the SW might try to place him in an AL. Second, you get him to think about AL and how that might be in his future. As he declines further physically and mentally, he won't be able to live alone.

Have fun in Glastonbury. Put the phone on mute or block dad's and brother's numbers for the weekend. What is there to do in Glastonbury?

Paul: "Where have you been all day?" Wow - that's rich. You have a life!

"I'm in hospital!" Ok, good, they are well-equipped to take care of you.

Well Paul if he is in the hospital at least you know he cared for. Go and enjoy the time with your family.

Sorry not had chance to read all the comments. Today I've been out since 8am this morning got home at 7pm 6 year olds have busy lives!!! Wife has been in work and son has been off again today so a lot going on today.

So I phone Dad at 7-05pm. I've just got in. Once again, all I get is "where've you been all day, I've been stuck in with no-one coming to see me". "thought you'd have found some time to visit me" and, then (proving he knows damn well what I'd told him) "couldn't you take your daughter another week"

He KNEW full well I was busy I'd told him but he still has to have a go.

Today I just let it wash over me and ignored it. Too tired. In a way, its getting so obvious with his awful selfish behaviour I don't feel guilty any more.

He even upped it again when he saw no result. "I've been feeling really dizzy I nearly fell over earlier". I KNOW whats going on here. I can predict a "fall" next week. He knows I'm going to Glastonbury next week with wife and daughter and hes not happy with it. (Apparently, I'm moaning I've got no time but I'm swanning off for the weekend).

I reckon about Tuesday evening or early wednesday morning. Just enough to screw up my trip.There is NO WAY I am going for it this time.... I am NOT cancelling. I've seen it too many times with him - don't get your own way so use the ultimate killer attach - "I'm in hospital!"

Paul please watch some narc vis on youtube. Maybe you can listen whilst commuting or whenever. They will give you more tools. You shouldnt get worked up over this. Youll end up in hosp.

He's been at this his whole life. Hes very good at this game. Hes got you totally programmed with guilt.
If he bothers you that much block his call for 24hrs. Or 48. You are his son, not his personal slave.

Watch "How To Lay Boundaries With A Narcissist By Detaching" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/Ge0bPiahtmU

Nothing is going to change him.  Stop staying till you are ready to explode.
I tried to visit Grandpa after Grandma entered nursing home.  He got so argumentative about 'kids today' that I left in tears.  I told Mum. She didn't explain anything about his mental illness, bad childhood, etc.  She just said, "If he makes you feel that badly, don't visit." 

Now I am sorry to say, but I will say it anyway, that your Dad's conversations sound just like Archie Bunker on an American tv show back in the late 60's or 70's.  I can picture Archie saying the same things, and it makes me giggle.

Dear Paul, here is a suggestion followed by the reasons: Go and find your mother.

Reasons: you have come a very long way since you first started posting. However it seems that things may get even worse as you try to stand up against your awful father. Your wife has walked away from him (and good for her), but she hasn’t given you an ultimatum (she probably doesn’t have the energy). Your brother is getting to be as bad as your father. Your cousins, doctors, Uncle Tom Cobbly etc etc, prefer to swallow the ‘poor old man’ line or else walk away, rather than confront a narcissist (and who can blame them). The site helps, but no-one actually has your back.

You may or may not find that you like your mother. However she is likely to tell you why she opted out, and it won’t be flattering about Dad. It may well give you the push you need to accept what you need to do, and stop feeling guilty about it. You then have a choice about whether to tell your father what she says. If you do, of course sparks will fly. However it may be the push that gets him to realise that he has come to the end of the line in his appalling behaviour. After all, she walked, and you might take after her.

This would be cheaper and quicker than counselling, and might even work better. Just an idea to chew over. Yours, Margaret

Paul; in 1965 (I was 12), my grandmother broke her hip. While she was in the hospital having surgery, she grandly told all her friends "I'll be an invalid now and my daughters will wait on me". (!!!!)

My mother, who had a two year old at home in addition to me and my brother, and my dad who travelled frequently for work, said to her mom, "Nope mom, no way are you going to be an invalid; you are going to rehab to learn to walk again".

My grandmother was appalled. APPALLED that her daughters (her other daughter, my aunt worked full time and also had 3 kids) would send her to "that kind of place" to be "among strangers".

Rehab, as we all know, is grueling. According to my mom, who visited once a week, her mother cried, begged, pleaded, threatened for the several weeks that she was there. On some level, I don't think grandma ever forgave my mother for sending her to rehab.

You know what? My grandmother's anger didn't hurt anyone. Her occasional pouting, silences, etc., caused tension, but no one suffered any real damage (well, us kids, but that's another story--having a bed-ridden grandma, instead of one with a walker would have been MUCH worse).

So you could say that I learned to say "no" to my parents at my mother's knee; it was a valuable lesson in how to be my own person and make my own decisions.

You need to get word to the consultant that NO, you will not be around to help. You need to tell dad, calmly, "no dad, there's no way I can do that. No, I just can't. It's not your business why I can't. I have my own life and being a full time carer for you isn't something that I can manage, no matter what. That's just the way it is. I'm sorry you feel that way, Dad. I'll talk to you soon."

Why do you need to explode? He probably enjoys that. Don't give him the satisfaction. Just say "no". Early and often.

llama - no way 500 miles away! And you left your own family.....

I sometimes think if I said "dad im getting divorced, can I come and live with you" he'd be overjoyed. Even then though he'd probably say "what do you want to see those kids for now, you're divorced, not your problem any more".

Got to admit I know I'm not the best with dealing with him and I do let it get to me but I'm on my last nerve at the moment. Its making me ill now. Its a constant battle with him. I dream of living in another country and not having to deal with him. I have nightmares about him having a long drawn out illness where he expects constant attention.

I visited him last night. I've not spoken to consultant yet but hes told the consultant "Its ok because my sons live very close so they'll come every day to look after me". What? I live 30 mins away and I can't remember offering this? No way Jose.....

So I looked at him. He looks at me "Yes but you will? won't you? won't you?" I lost it and said "look dad I'm doing what I can now, I can do no more. I've had it now".

5 minutes later. "So are you doing my shopping this weekend?" NOOOOOO!!!!!

Theres a reason you have a freezer that I filled with food last weekend. I said NO I'M BUSY - so then he wants to know why, what are you doing, can't you spare an hour or two etc etc. I refused to say - he didn't like it. Can't you come up after work? NO I've got child care. Can't x (wife) take time off to do that? (Im going to explode again).

So I've told him home delivery or nothing..... Small victory here.

I'm going to Glastonbury next weekend. I hadn't reminded him - but hes seen it on TV and remembered (hence the hassling me this weekend!). So he pipes up, "so are you going?" Yes you know I am. "Aw OK then, yes I don't mind you going, you need a rest"

At the point, before I throttled him, I said "gotta go ring you the weekend." What? I need your permission to take some time for myself and my family....

I can see this all coming to a head. He wants me to live my life one way and I don't want that. I can honestly say I dread every contact with him these days.....

Paul if he does that ---"we have to talk" crap. Tell him hes got 20 secs to tell you over the phone or forget it. Period.

You have a busy life and have to move on. He can tell you right then or it can wait. Have a nice day, gotta go.

I'm not sure about NP disorder, but it could be that our elderly LOs were somehow changed by the 'depression era' (many lived through that very insecure time). Also, many families were damaged by wartime in the late 1930s-40s. My mother should definitely have gotten mental help early in life, but didn't. Instead, she plagued our family with anxiety, isolation, lack of bonding, & bursts of rage. It causes me grief to look back on those years, but I presume she didn't intentionally harm us. She was difficult & miserable unto the very end of her life, but I never knew what caused her torment. Finally at rest.

Talk about horribly inconveniencing yourself - Ikdrymom. My mother waited so long to make any decision on where she would live into old age that I had to leave my home and state and family (Oh, no, I didn't have a life - insert Yea, right) and move in with her where she was '"so glad that she stayed in her own home" 500 miles away! Inconvenient much?!!

BarbBrooklyn - you're not the first to suggest this. Yes I have.... I think Dad is a lot like this unfortunately.

Paul, have you read anything about Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

lkdrymom - yep. I've always thought that with Dad. He likes being able to get people to do what he wants. Im the same - I sometimes think "why on earth are you pushing this thing for no reason?"

It seems to make him happy knowing that he can click his fingers and people do what he wants them to.

Im sure I mentioned the "wheelchair incident". I'd left it in my car - he had to have it back for the friday or he couldnt go out (his friend was going to push him). Thursday - Up at 4am or something in the office (on call) so 11am I call him - do you REALLY need that wheelchair because its a BAD time" YES. So I drive 90 mins round trip.

Asked him few days later. "No I didnt like to ask x after to push me". I was NOT impressed. But he was happy because he'd made me do it.

I remember those "we have to talk" conversations. He would call me and say he needed to talk to me. I'd say ok, talk.....and he 'd say....no you have to come here. I could never understand why he wouldn't just tell me over the phone. I'd finally manage to get there and ask what was so important and he would say "never mind". Later in the week we would repeat this entire conversation. I would point out to him that he wasted my time coming over to talk and he had nothing to say. He would tell me now he does have something to discuss. And a few days later I would get there and he would say 'never mind'. The whole point is that they want you to go out of your way for them. They want to know that you would horribly inconvenience yourself for them because they are so important. That is what he wants most of all. But you already know that.

jasmina- its challenging with our son thats for sure. Yes I've got a lot going on but the thing is, I don't mind helping Dad and fitting it all in. Its when he wants to be number 1 and comes up with silly demands that it annoys me.

You're right he can turn on the charm and come across as a sweet helpless old man which is why I get it in the neck from family because its a case of "oh poor thing his son won't help".

I've given up trying to explain now. He knows the score with my family BUT still he says "they have to understand I have to put him (dad) first". Crazy or what?

Brother is a nightmare. His new wife doesn't work. Not hard for her to drive the 1 mile to see Dad in the week which she does and Dad thinks shes florence nightingale (my wife is lucifer btw). Brother than pops up saturday am for an hour. No kids to look after (that he bother with anyway) so easy peasy..... Of course then he says I'm not pulling my weight - jeez!

Cheers disgustedtoo! Yeh gonna ignore sonny from now on - I've seen threads too...

You really have your hands full! I honestly dont know how you do it.

Im glad your getting help for your child. The child cannot run the household even if they have challenges. I hope the therapy is helping. Im sure you have resources in your neck of the woods to help with diciplinary issues for those with aspergers.

As for dad maybe you need to hire help. Dad might be mr wonderful to a stranger. My narc mom was. She could turn on the charm like a seasoned broadway performer.
You can deligate things like shopping or an excursion outetc. If dad has a melt down, oh well guess you wont eat this week. I cant be everywhere at once. I have family issues that need to be dealt with. Dont go into detail. Youll never win. Say it is personal. Too much happening I cant get to it. You can only do so much in 24hrs. Your job and family life shouldnt have to suffer bc he is demanding this or that.
Or deligate it back to brother who lives 5 mins away.
If dad cont to demand rell him hevwill be limited to 1 ph call a week check in. Tell him it is too much stress. Your done with it. Good luck

paulfoel123 re sonny7:

You said: "OK I'll bite."

This is what you need NOT to do. Bets on whether sonny7 will be just like your dad when he's old!!!! IGNORE him. He only lays guilt (he's been in other threads, chiding those of us who chose to place LOs in a facility), he doesn't provide any USEFUL comments or suggestions. He doesn't need any additional info about you or any of us and wouldn't process it to feel empathy for any of us either (consider him dad #2. One is bad enough to deal with, so skip over this clown's comments.)

"The more he treats me badly the less guilty I feel about not doing what he wants." No guilt. In an ideal world we can be Superman or a god and do everything. It is not an ideal world. We cannot do everything and it doesn't do anyone any good to try.

Your refusal to play is upping dad's game? Shields up Mr Chekov! Do NOT respond, do not fire torpedoes or phasers, even on stun... End communication Uhura!

Jasmina - he constantly amazes me with the lengths he will stoop to honestly.
Hes beginning to twig as you say that I'm pushing back and trying new things.

To be honest, its making more determined. All hes doing is proving to me even more that he does not give a rats a@se about me.

I honestly believe he does not at this moment -Im there for him and thats it as far as he thinks. The more he treats me badly the less guilty I feel about not doing what he wants....

Yes we're getting all sorts of help with son. Seeing family counsellor for another session today as it happens (2 hours out of me work day today so late home tonight)....

Im sure you can understand why my head almost explodes when dad says he needs my help and my family will have to understand and make allowances.

polar - yes I should do I know. Its just thats what I get from family - easy to criticise when you don't know the full story.

Paul - just ignore sonny's jabs. I doubt sonny is being pulled in 10 different directions like you are, so he doesn't understand the stress or priority.