It's been a hard week....

NeedHelpWithMom - yes we could put on a good show. I could write a book easily too lol.

Much as I clearly wouldn't like your dad and would steer clear of him, NOW he's gotten my dander up!!

"Do not tell everyone how much you hate cats..."

Good thing he isn't nearby... I'd put up with the noise they make when put in carriers and taken for a ride and bundle up a bunch of my cats to visit with him on Xmas day and RUIN it for him!

And I also like your wife a lot more too! :-D

Paul- do what you have to do to have a great holiday/s. It that means creating a invisible shield or a circle of trust (lol) around your family home or wherever else, do it.
Your dad had his chance and he deliberately abused it. So did brother.
I wouldnt meet him for boxing day, but your a better person than I. I'd give a phone call and that's it. If he acts up, next year that's all he gets. Lol
Narcs actually love making people miserable. Its fun sport to see if they can poke till they hit a the right nerve. Or complain till you do his bidding. Thats why the comments about overspending, the cats, etc. It was to see who he could make the maddest, and what comments worked best. That comment got no reply. Let's try this one. He was enjoying he could ruin yor holiday. And all attention would be on him good or bad, hes running the show. He was probably jealous of your family having a good time.

You also dont want the kids remembering Xmas as: mom/dad on edge, and grandpa making nasty remarks. Xmas over 1.5hrs bc it was horrible. They dont need those memories.
Boxing day is coming up. Dont feel guilty If you cut it short. You are not his manipulation/play toy. Let him go find your brother. Lol. Have a great guilt free and stress free holiday. If u have to block #s for 24-28hrs then do it.

Hey Paul,

Bring a hypnotist to lunch with your dad to hypnotize him into behaving properly. I suppose he wouldn’t be a good subject for the hypnotist. Hahaha 😂

Actually, he may be annoying but I agree with Barb. No one is going to care about your dad’s behavior. Or look at it as I did with my husband’s grandmother, ‘free entertainment!’

CM,

I enjoyed reading your comments on my grandfather’s birthplace. Thanks!

River,

You mention Victorian and Edwardian pieces. My grandfather’s name was Edward and he had a sister named Victoria. They had a large family.

Paul and CM,

I am only interested in Birmingham because of my maternal grandfather’s roots. I would want to see lots of other places in England. I have heard Wales is lovely as well.

I’m telling you, Paul

With your material from your dad and my material from my husband’s grandmother we could do a great stand up comedy show in England and Wales. Hey, throw in Scotland and Ireland because I could visit my dad’s heritage too!

I think most of us could perform in a fabulous comedy act. Join us CM! Anyone else ready to go on the road with us with our comedy routine? Hahaha 😂

CM Thank you for that piece of history

Sounds like the filter part of his brain is let's say, not in tip top condition anymore. I forget - was there any mention of vascular dementia? Or mild depression? That can appear as snarky comments seeping out everywhere. Or just Grumpy Old Man. Regardless of any of these things, his behaviour is his own responsibility.

Maybe he needs a tropical holiday - as nice as Birmingham sounds...

I'm picturing an older man on a beach in Spain. Complaning about the men-waiters & chips being different...

The Birmingham Assay Office is still there :) - but it's a comparative newcomer, opened in 1773. The actual building is much later. The anchor only tells you that the silver was tested and stamped in Birmingham, so you could theoretically have imported goods that were then assayed after their arrival, but there was (and is) still a lot produced in the area.

The novel Middlemarch is set in Birmingham. It started out as a pokey little town with nothing much to it, but in the 19th century it began to flourish.

I will concede that it has never had a name for being what you would call stylish or charming. Most unfair!

Countrymouse, in the 1980's I worked in a very high end antique shop in NYC. It was filled mostly with Victorian and Edwardian pieces. It was a wonderful education for me. There were many hallmarked silver items and I recalled that almost all of them started off with the hallmark for being produced in Birmingham followed by the date.

lkdrymon - thats the hard bit. He doesn't think hes done anything wrong. I'd say in the last year I've called him out on about 10 things that he and brother have done to upset me and my wife. Each time he says sorry (makes a huge flap over it) then does the same. Then its gone under the carpet.

Remember he moaned that my wife didn't phone his especially on his birthday? At the time I thought, "do you not remember what you've done to her recently and you expect her to call you?"

If I told him the truth he'd get upset and make a deal out of it. I just can't cope with the fake "Im so sorry" to be honest. It wont sink in.

I like Jasmine's approach. What I think she is saying is for you to tell Dad the reason he is not invited over this year is because he can't behave. You asked him to behave in the past and he tested your boundaries...so now he isn't invited. You already did step one, just have to finish off with step two.

Ha ha CM. Not so sure about Birmingham. I dont like London though :-)

Oi. On behalf of the Birmingham Tourist Authority I strongly refute Paul's dismissive description of that fine city, the UK's second largest. There is lots to do and lots to see, the people are much friendlier than Londoners are, and it has a decentish airport. And it's a one and a half hour drive from Wales (if you count Monmouth as Wales, and you don't mind being scared out of your wits by Midlands Man who is arguably the worst sort of driver in the world).

Beatty - thats awful. Assuming they can come regardless. Wow.

My Dad has been similar. My wifes a District nurse so she does work 24/7.

His answer "tell you're wife shes got tell her boss she cant work xmas day"
Yeah right.

This is from the man who abuses the system, calls the nurse out when hes not supposed to, complains they dont come the time he wants.

Yet he doesnt mind other patients who are actually ill not getting treated because my wifes cooking his xmas dinner!

NeedHelpwithMom- Birmingham hmmm. Probably not a well known tourist destination lol.

Its a large industrial city....

On the plus side, its only a few hours drive to Wales. You can come and see me! ;-)

Jasmina - Oh I tried for years. Xmas day was almost as if he couldnt come up with more inappropriate comments if he tried. His manners were also appalling.

I tried to have a quiet word. I asked him please,

-Do not criticise how much we've bought the kids for xmas its none of your business. (He'd upset my wife every year).
-Do not tell everyone how much you hate cats (my wifes a cat lover and we've got three) and not going into detail telling innappropriate stories from when you were young
- Try and be appreciate and have some manners. I never heard a please or a thank you. He'd just sit there and bark orders at me - "get me a cup of tea".
- Its our house, the kids are noisy, its messy but you do not get to criticise and tell the kids off.

In one ear and out the other - I'd be eating xmas dinner, he'd be off on some topic and be looking at my wife and seeing her face in "ready to explode" mode. She never did - and I love her loads for it.

Could I have put up with that from my MIL - probably not.

Polar - very pleased at how its worked out. Previous xmases have been awful dealing with him. Now hes nowhere near my house or my family at all.

Beatty,

Yes! A few years back I quit all the holiday shenanigans for everyone! Not worth it. You’re very wise!

What biz is it of your brother's if Dad comes to your house or not? Hold firm on the resturant.

I have booked a local bistro for my side. Turn up & self pay. Don't like it? Msg me a better idea & we'll discuss. I am so zen about this year I am like a new person 😊. It does get easier!

Last year however.... 🤯 nearly a breakdown.

Mum: We are coming to your house Xmas day. You are doing the cooking this year.
Me: I am working Xmas day, so no.
Mum: But you have to cook.
Me: I am working Xmas day.
Mum: we'll come after work.
Me: there won't be any food.
Mum: We'll have cold food.
Me: No, you are not coming to my house Xmas day. In fact you are not coming to my house at all. It is too small for everyone & it's hard to get your wheelchair up the steps & I don't think it will fit down the hallway & the bathroom is inaccessible.
Mum: We're coming. It will be ok.
Me: No you are not.
Mum: Well we want the come.
Me: Fine. Come then. No one will be home. You can sit in the car out front.

I left it a few days.

Mum still adament she was coming to my house, not offering hers (even though bigger & set up for her wheelchair). Dad zero help. But your Mother wants... She didn't want any mess at her house (even though for years we bring the food, cook & do all the cleaning up).

Pressure from sister's too. Well WE can't do it... Resturant? (no they all say too pricey). Aaaagggg. I finally said let's go to a local park - but you will have to cope with the weather. December here can be anything: 18 to 40, humid, thunderstorm, windy. So picnic tables & chairs lugged to park. Mild but humid day. Bogan family of smokers set up nearby :( Starts to rain a bit. Had to cook at home & bring it all. Never ever ever again.

Told sister it would be her turn this year - but too impractical for us to travel to hers really. So I took it on again this year. Bistro it is.

I have a cruise picked out for next year. Sister can arrange or not - be no difference to me. I will do pop in nursing home style visits beforehand - then sail away.....

Rant over.

Paul,

My husband’s grandmother was a real character! Do you know how I ended up handling it? I referred to her as ‘free entertainment.’ I swear to you that I have so much material that if I ever decided to do a stand up comedy routine it would sell out! The things that she did were absolutely hysterical!

Start collecting material for jokes from your dad. I will do the female version of your dad with my husband’s grandmother’s antics. We will take our act on the road and sell out at every venue! Hahaha 😂 Laugh, cry or get mad? More fun to laugh at their foolishness. It took me forever to live in the moment. Life is too short to stress out over their ridiculous behavior.

My grandfather’s family came to New Orleans from Birmingham, England. I have always wanted to visit there.

I had to cut off my mom for a few years from Xmas and Thanksgiving after she proceeded to work herself into a frenzy over politics no one else was discussing, was mean when asked to stop, and then wouldnt go home. It was 1230 at night. I had enough. Took a nice day and ruined it for everyone. It took a few yrs (5) for her to realize her bad behavior was no longer tolerated, and she wasnt invited back.
My sister also told her just stay away off these topics and leave at a normal hour. Be pleasant not miserable. It took her about 5yrs to come around bc she had to blame everyone but herself at first. She is stubborn, but when she behaved it was lovely and I invited her back.

I flat out told her her behavior wont be tolerated and she only had her self to blame. I dont hate her but just that horrible miserable behavior.

I'd tell your dad that straight to his face. That they dont like your behavior and dont want to be around you. That's why you havent seen them. Let him get mad. Hell think about that when he is staring at the tv alone.
My mom was also a narcissist. So was my grandmother who would deliberately order food not listed on the menu. I told her if she cant pick something from the menu we will leave. And proceeded to move towards the end of the booth to leave. Her choice. She backed down. When they find out their antics wont be tolerated they can act normal. They choose not to. They only try to act narcissistic when they think they can get away with it.

You tell him the day before the antics wont be tolerated. Then right before you go. That includes snide comments to you and the wait staff, about food prices and anything else he wants to be nasty about. If he starts to act up in the restaurant your done, meal over. Check! Even if it means getting the food in a go bag. Running ahead to pay and getting in the car. Tell him he is not enjoyable and you wont tolerate bad behavior. You can go home to a nice meal and fun family, while he sulks alone. And you will still enjoy the evening even more without him. (That remark will get to him). Narcs never want to be alone. They always want an audience and to manipulate. Be prepared for him to act up on purpose to see if you will follow thru. So you must! Even if it is in the middle of dinner. Put the fork down, your done. Leave him to get a taxi home, or get the car. Too bad. Life is to short to be miserable. Good luck. Dont feel bad about it either. He will come around but he will test boundries first. You are establishing healthy boundaries. So if you feel bad, remind yourself of that. Over and over. I'd tell my mom that. I'm doing normal now. I'm not doing whatever it is you want, and I dont go to crazy town any more.
Here are some things to say to yourself, to remind you of what normal boundries are now.

https://www.aconsciousrethink.com/3949/7-healing-affirmations-victims-narcissistic-abuse/

Woohoo! Paul, you're making great progress.

Your dad isn't used to you standing firm at first, but if you keep it up, he'll get used to it, then expect it, and then maybe even accept it.

You are a good father and husband for protecting your family from a dysfunctional, miserable person wanting to ruin their Christmas.

And you care about all these "awful" things because.....?

Look, he's an odd old man. Restaurants and diners alike have experienced odd old men for centuries. They won't hold you responsible for his behavior.

Stop being embarrassed by your dad. No one else cares about his behavior.

Yeh I think its 50/50 if he'll go. He had a shocked look on his face but agreed.
He might let it go.

Sometimes he thinks about things and then thinks "this is not right". He'll realise that hes not seen my wife for a year or more. Hes got a BIG thing about that - all because my brothers wife goes to see him once a week, my wife should do the same... Crazy...

He'll be awful in the restaurant too. I know. Its a set menu, its only £21 but he'll moan loudly about "daylight robbery" be weird and patronising with the waiting staff (if its a bloke he'll say "its not right having a man serve you").

Then I'll have to stop him pressing a pound coin into the waiter/waitresses hand and expecting him/her to thank him profusely.

Not a restaurant I've ever been and probably wont go again. Its near his house....

Good progress, Paul!

Good for you, Paul! I have my brothers and my SIL blocked on my phone. It’s wonderful! No messages coming in, no calls and I don’t have to waste time responding to their nonsense!

I bet your dad will go to the restaurant but if he doesn’t, well he doesn’t, so be it!

Too bad if your brother is upset! That’s his problem, not yours. There is no reason that your dad has to go to your house for Christmas.

Congrats, for solving that issue rather nicely! Cheers! 🍻

Well hes fighting back. Standing firm....

Restaurant is booked. Brother been trying to contact me (hes obviously found out I'm not having Dad for xmas) - number blocked and blocked via facebook.

Hes told Dad to tell me hes "upset I wont have Dad over xmas". I just shrugged.
Not interested in the games the pair of them play. Switched off to it all now.

Dad can come out to the restaurant on boxing day or not. Up to him. Hes not coming to ours Xmas day no matter what. End of.

They can both moan all they like.

Beatty - My son is happy doing his own thing. On his own, playing on his PC, talking to his friends. Its a struggle to get him to come out with us for a meal, let alone his grandfather who will ask all sorts of stupid questions.

I'm not taking them just so Dad can line up "people who've seen his over xmas" that's for sure. Hes 16 now. He'll stay home on his own.

As I explained to Dad, even if he did come to my house, son would not be coming out for more than 10 mins even if I forced him to eat at the table.