It's been a hard week....

Sorry that toilet thing just makes me SO angry for you!

But you've seen it now... How far the slippery slope of his needs will go. (All the way baby!)

I'm actually quite surprised but glad that went straight to toileting 'I need help'. It will help to make your future plans.

The reason it irks me so bad is I delt with that slippery slope for 12 long months with my sister. THAT was #1 reason I quit talking her anywhere (& the mess..)

Supervised walking TO the toilet slowly became 'I need help' opening doors became 'I need help' fixing my clothing to 'I need help' with wiping.
"Just do the best you can" was my answer.

I understand her real needs but DO NOT have to put up with *The Act*. So I kept reducing my contact bit by bit. It if helps you I broke it down;

5. Normal social visits anywhere - including my house
4. Public outing - but NOT my house.
3 Limited outing. Shorter cafes/resturant visit. Toilets right there.
2. Her house only.
1. No contact

I have told her in a soft way.. oh that"s a bit hard to do... but mostly I just have to engineer things & be busy busy busy. Currently down to 2. Her house only, except Xmas outing tomorrow. I am dreading it. (If anyone has a good slogan to why I can't even walk her to the toilet area - let me know!!)

Your Dad was level 5 & 4 last year. This Boxing Day demoted to level 3. Depends on his behaviour but level 2 is next!

And just WHO helps him walk to & at the toilet at home eh??? A retro crochet toilet roll holder doll maybe?

Hmmm

Oh boy! Paul, your dad is a real character. I bet you two got stares from other diners. I see several options to deal with his acting out. One, you stop taking him to restaurants and let him be, or you can grin and bear and put up with him for one boxing day a year, or another option is to take him some place else where he can't embarrass you, or you can bring take-outs to him and put on a good movie.

Have a good new year. Don't let him ruin it.

Paul,

Sorry your meal with dad was a disappointment but I know you weren’t surprised by his behavior.

Best wishes for the upcoming new year.

paul: Ooh, that's rich - dragging him to the loo. Umm - not so much.

These other posters also have been there & done that too!

CM "no need to discuss". Agree. He won't see anyone else's point of view.
MMcKen "say you can't go with him to a restuarant next time.." If it makes you feel better about saying no, do it. Spell it out but may not remember/deny/ignore.
Need "bored" Agree! But that's HIS problem.
Lkdry "The Act" LOL

This qualified team could probably diagnise a "bored old git syndrome (B.O.G.S). Is there a medical term for this?

The progression is whinging, more & more attention seeking & possibility of eventually becoming the screaming 'help me!' person in the local nuring home.

Edit: that sound very dire! Sorry! Maybe he will mellow in very old age instead...

Sounds like Jasmina has been there.. good advice.

Ello paul, I was wondering what fresh hell you had to go thru on boxing day lol.
Paul that is when you get the meal to go, pay the check and leave. He doesnt like the restaurant, your done. He can eat it at home. Outing over.
Next year he gets a phone call. No visit. Your too busy. Cant answer the phone for fake emergencies. Block it 48hrs. He can be miserable and make you miserable too, or miserable alone.
I had to tell my mom off. It took 5yrs but she learned. (A little).
You still need to practice grey rock method more. When he kicks off complaining. Ignore it, change subject, or go silent. You let it get under your skin. You need to put a wall up and dont respond.
Well you made it thru the holiday. Now make sure your not around New Years. Your either busy, hung over so cant go over, or dont celibrate it. (Even if you do). He doesnt have to know. Turn phone off again. Good luck.

I really wouldn't bother discussing it at all.

Making the point while this occasion is fresh in his mind would make sense - but only if we assume that a) Dad will agree there was a problem (he won't); b) will comprehend that the problem was him (he certainly won't); and c) will either resolve to mend his ways or ruefully accept that there will be no more Boxing Day outings for him because he has been naughty.

Paul, you have over three hundred days in which to make a prior engagement that will prevent your taking him out next year. No need to discuss it, just do it.

OK Paul, this is when you say that you can’t go with him to a restaurant again. Say it soon, while he can remember this one.

ikdrymom,

So true about the audience! Some people must be bored. Their lives aren’t fulfilling and they crave attention from others. That is different from being lonely. I have empathy for someone who is lonely but not for people who like to stir up crap, you know, start drama because they are bored.

So you have seen 'the act'. My father loved the helpless act. Got it from his mother. When they were alone they could do anything but as soon as they had an audience the smallest task was 'too much' for them.

Well the meal was done yesterday. I tried to ignore him but honestly.... He moaned from start to finish. I drew the line when he started abusing the waiter (for no reason!). He got the idea in his head that they were too slow (they werent!) so decided to have a right go.

He pretty much didnt speak to me. He was too busy bobbing around, wondering where his food was. We had a big argument about that.

He also decided to make sure I knew how ill he was. Had to practically drag/carry him to the bathroom 10 yards away. Then he said I needed to help him go to the bathroom! No way.

He walked half a mile across a busy road this week to get his hair cut. Yet I'm dragging him 10 yards across a restaurant.....

Happy Boxing Day, Paul!

Enjoy that cider!

Mine has moved to a bistro, so I will be enjoying a nice glass of red. Mindfully looking, smelling & tasting my food & drink... My attention on the conversation that bit less.

Cider up - care factor down...

Thanks Barb. Blocked to European Union though......

Have a good xmas all!

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/healthy-living/2017/11/09/caring-through-the-hurt-experts-tell-how-to-cope-when-elderly-parents-behavior-worsens/

Some interesting Christmas reading for you, Paul. Merry Christmas!

disgusted - yeh getting there on these things. I see what you mean - pointless getting stressed up front.....

I've decided I am going to have a pint. I would if I was with my family and I'm not going to recklessly drink-drive with my family in the car so why should I listen to the opinions of an old fool who has no idea what the rules/law is.

disgusted - wow 10 cats. Bit too many for me. we have three and wife and kids want more but theres a limit lol.

"I know thats my next thing to work on. Stopping it affecting me."

90% of the issue is acknowledging it, 10% working on it!

"I've sorted the guilt. I don't feel guilty at all. I'm still struggling not to be angry when he tries something on."

I used to let my brothers saying/doing/not helping get under my skin and it would make me angry. I finally realized that this is pointless - it doesn't hurt them, but it DOES affect me. Drafted emails to each one and said all I really wanted to get across, but never sent them. It would do no good as they won't get it and more than likely it would bring backlash, so they sit in my draft folder. It did help me exorcise a lot and reduced my anger. One brother isn't local and because of his behavior I am done with him. The other has to take over any outings the MC transport can't handle (and he doesn't like it, but as I pointed out to him, it is only 4x a year vs what I still have to do!)

"Can guarantee it will be something over xmas."

One of the ways to block this out is to stop anticipating. It leads to worry and anxiety and planning what to do. No need to anticipate and no plans other than to smile and not get sucked in! When these thoughts pop into your head, banish them and force yourself to think of something else.

"I've got to stay strong and ignore him."

Exactly.

"I know it seems silly but I'm thinking about the drink when we go for a meal."
"Can guarantee Dad will have a BIG issue with this. We've had the discussion 100s of times literally."

Again, anticipation... Anticipating something fun or enjoyable is okay. It is none of his business whether you have one or five, or criticizes anything you do - he starts, raise your glass, smile and give him a CHEERS! and take a drink! Let him ramble on. Let his rumblings be like the teacher and adults on the Charlie Brown episodes: "Wah wah waah, wah wah wah..." If need be, excuse yourself and head for the men's room, even if you don't have to go - just removes you from it and cuts him off.

"On one hand I'm thinking I'll not bother to stop him going on about it but on the other I think why should I let his stupid ideas stop me doing something."

Again, raise your glass (if you have a drink), smile and thumbs up or cheers! There is no point to trying to stop him and there is no reason to let what he says or thinks stop you from doing what you want to do or feel is right. Yes him to death if you have to (without even really listening to what he is saying) and do your own thing!!!

"But my new years resolution is going to be:-
1. Keep blocking and ignoring brother.
2. Keep refusing to do all these extra things for Dad.
3. Not let it get me wound up."

Just remember, even if you mess up and break one or more of these, all is not lost. Focus on being stronger the next time!

NeedHelpWithMom:
"I love a cat’s independent nature."

I like dogs too, but they are a bit too "needy" for me right now and having to do the outside thing, esp in winter, would get to me (I did take in a 5m old, but it turned out that she was afraid of EVERYTHING and everyone, nothing I could really work with, so she went back to the foster group after trying what i could for 5 months and it took them 6 MONTHS to work on her before they could find her a new home. They have more experience than me!)

Anyway, cats are certainly more independent than dogs, but most of mine, despite putting on airs of independence, are really not! They all greet me when I get home or go to their areas, jockey for position next to me in bed and near me when I am sitting, and the oldest one is SO overly attached to me that she HATES cats (I think she thinks she is human!)

Paul:

"...goes on about how dirty and disgusting they are."

Ummm, no. They are so excessively clean! Sleep 16+ hours/day and grooming 4+ hours, only 4 hours left to eat, use the litter box and raise mayhem! Also another ironic statement from someone who was going to wash in a sink with no hot water...

"You can imagine. My house - if you don't like the cats dont come."

I don't have to imagine. I've even said it! But, despite what some people think, my place isn't "crawling" with cats even though I have 10 (one person refused to consider me for a dog adoption, saying it would frighten the dog to have cats falling out of my cabinets!) Very often people can't even tell there are cats here except for all the kitty paraphernalia (or is that paraFURnailia?) like cat trees, tunnels, boxes and toys (and kitty tumbleweeds rolling down the hall, even minutes after sweeping it all up!)

Thanks Needhelp. Of course, you're right. You all are. Hes not going to change.
I know thats my next thing to work on. Stopping it affecting me.

I've sorted the guilt. I don't feel guilty at all. I'm still struggling not to be angry when he tries something on.

Can guarantee it will be something over xmas. Can guarantee the conversation on boxing day will lead on to him trying to tell me what I'm doing wrong? I've got to stay strong and ignore him.

I know it seems silly but I'm thinking about the drink when we go for a meal. I plan to have one drink - a pint of Cider probably (fine even if I am driving). Can guarantee Dad will have a BIG issue with this. We've had the discussion 100s of times literally. On one hand I'm thinking I'll not bother to stop him going on about it but on the other I think why should I let his stupid ideas stop me doing something.

But my new years resolution is going to be:-
1. Keep blocking and ignoring brother.
2. Keep refusing to do all these extra things for Dad.
3. Not let it get me wound up.

Paul,

I get how you feel about being drained. I can tell you that I felt that way constantly with my mom.

I regret having anxiety because I endlessly tried to reason with my mom. I wasn’t influencing mom in any way, shape or form. I wasn’t getting the results that I needed from her. We ended up feeding off of each other. It was awful.

Think about it. My mom wasn’t the only stubborn one. I was just as stubborn. Mom opposed my attempts to control her. Yet, I continued to try and control her behavior which was impossible for me to do.

I suppose I saw it as a challenge. I suppose that I somehow felt that I failed because I wasn’t able to get through to her. Trust me when I say that I tried every tactic I could think of. I didn’t fail. No one has the power to change someone else’s behavior.

You have no influence over your dad. YOUR DAD IS BEING HIMSELF! It took me forever to figure this out about myself and my mom no matter how much others truly tied to tell me.

Stop giving him ammunition to shoot you with. So, acknowledge that you don’t appreciate his behavior and then move on.

If he gets angry, so what. My mom got angry when I confronted her or ignored her. At least I didn’t get angry at myself for once again trying to beat that dead horse. She was going to be mad no matter what I did or didn’t do. So I decided to control myself. I am at peace with my decision.

I actually have no relationship with mom at this point. Does that bother me? Sure it does. Do I love her? Yes. Do I miss her? I miss having a mom but not the agony. Can there be a reconciliation? Hell if I know. I doubt it. There is so much water under the bridge and I don’t have any desire to deal with my a**hole brother! Excuse my language but that word fits how I feel about him and his fourth wife!

Am I advocating that you ditch your dad? No, it’s not my place to tell you that. Besides, every situation is different. You have to do what is right for your circumstances.

Paul, I truly wish the very best for you. I hope that you will be able to shed the anxiety of 2019 and have peace and joy in your life in the upcoming year. Allow 2020 to be a promising year for change in your responses to his responses.

Take care, Paul. Enjoy your wife and children. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Can I recommend playing Solitaire on your phone while in the bistro?

Jasmina - yeh well taking him out Boxing Day. Its all worked out well.

Massive weight off my shoulders for Xmas Day. I never enjoyed it. Last year when he didn't come it was great to be honest.

Hes pushing a little. "Well, I hope you'll at least ring me Xmas Day". I was going to. "Well, ring me as soon as you get up then". Ummm NO. Hes knows full well I've got a 6 year old so she'll be excited opening her presents for a little while.

Tempted to set alarm and ring him at 4am though. That'd be funny. I could say daughter got up early this year and you did say ring first thing!

Know what you all mean about his behaviour in a restaurant but, honestly, sometimes. He crosses the line past "strange oldie behavior" though. He just will not listen.

It'll be a constant battle with me saying "Dad chill out, the foods coming". "No Im sure they know what you've ordered". "no they wont get you're order wrong" "no the tip is sorted" Its draining to be honest.

I love cats! Also dogs. I find people who don’t like cats have usually never owned one.

I love a cat’s independent nature. You know what is said about cats. “Cats don’t live with you, you live with them.” So true!

disgustedtoo - Yeh exactly, My wife (and kids) are MASSIVE cat lovers. We've fostered cats in the past (from a rehoming charity). We've had kittens born in our house - really nice for the kids. We had 10 cats (because of the kittens) at one point.

So you can imagine, Dad walks in pretty much says "get the cats away from me". Then goes on about how dirty and disgusting they are. Hes even said "cant you put them in the other room away from me?"

You can imagine. My house - if you don't like the cats dont come.

I bet you could, Paul. You’ve got the material for a very interesting book! Your father would make a very interesting lead character, right? Hahaha 😂

Paul, I always felt like one day I was going to be stabbed or shot as the innocent bystander due to the crazy comments made by my husband’s insane grandmother!

She made Violet from Downton Abbey look calm. Don’t know if you followed that series. I loved it! The grandmother is quite feisty!