It's been a hard week....

Paul; I've mentioned in the past that you might benefit from therapy. Your call, of course. But I think it would be useful for you to get some professional feedback about why you keep trying to wind your dad up by telling him things he doesn't need to know.

I had a mantra when my mom started to decline and she became anxious about every little d@amn thing. "Don't tell mom anything that doesn't have a happy ending".

I.e., Mom, we just got back from France! Look at the lovely pictures and souvenirs I bought for you!

Mom, we were in Israel; you could hear the rockets going off, but we were safe in our hotel's safe room.

Mom, DH had some surgery last week and it's all fine. The doctor says there is no need for further concern.

If you keep alerting your father to stuff that you KNOW from experience will upset and alarm him you are either in total denial about his mental health, extremely child-like in your need to inform your daddy about everything you do or incredibly cruel to a fragile old man.

I strongly suggest that you try to either examine your soul to figure out which of these unpleasant options is the case or find someone who can help you to do so.

I still say there is no need for him to know ANYTHING about your plans, what you are doing, your job, etc. It just brings out the "best" in him. You arrange a day/time that is good for YOU to stop in and make sure he has all he needs for 2 weeks (whether you are going anywhere or not, 2 weeks should be sufficient. anything else he needs, he can get bro to do it.) In vacation case, go a few days prior, get him set for the 2 weeks and say you'll be back. Period. Not a peep about what you are going or where you are going.

IF perchance you slip up and reveal something, and he starts in with his woes, stop him, cut him off. He says:
"Playing the massive guilt card with comments like "I wont sleep", "I'll be worried sick", "this will finish me off"."
You say gee dad, every time, every SINGLE time we have gone on vacation or away for a few days, you have said the same thing - can't sleep, worry sick
AND this will finish you off... Hmmmm, you're still here, aren't you?

I can just hear him sputtering after that... what can he say? He IS still there!

Mum's the word. ixnay on the ansplay (pig latin for those who never heard of this! means nix on the plans!)

Don't feed the machine. No input, no output (at least not like this - sure, he'll still BMC if you state the next visit date, but try not to do that either. If he asks at any time, defer the hell out of it. Soon. In a few days. When I get a chance. The response should be as vague as possible. Then, don't answer all his calls. Let it go to voicemail, delete them without listening maybe, as they'll generally all be the same thing! Doctors have your number, yes? If he's having REAL medical issues, they will contact you.

Beatty - pretty much what I said to him. He wasn't happy because I think he expected me to take his "worries" seriously to be honest.

I've told him this in the past - because he "worries" does not mean I stop doing things. He STILL seems to think that he can get me to do what he wants by doing this. Playing the massive guilt card with comments like "I wont sleep", "I'll be worried sick", "this will finish me off".

I've sat him down in the past and told him how unnacceptable this was but his answer is always "I can't help it I just worry". Nothing I can do.

Of course, as Beatty says a large part of this is he'd rather I go nowhere so I'm around for those two weeks to run around for him.

"Thanks for your concern Dad. I wish you wouldn't worry, but that's up to you - whether you worry or not. Just think of us having a nice break. You'll be fine. See you when we get back".

I suppose he worries because (to him) it's like his arm is going off on holidays. Now why would his own arm go off & leave him? It needs to stay on his body & do what his brain tells it. That's how I picture my Mum's worries. Since I don't see her as much she doesn't have enough fuel to keep particular worry fires going about my daily life.. as she doesn't know the intricacies of what I am up to. When I see her she wants to know when I am working. Why? Who knows..

"Saying that Dad is now FULL TILT "How can you think of going to spain and making me worry like this - its going to kill me?""

That's why I suggested not telling him. He does NOT need to know what plans you have - ANY plans. It doesn't involve him, it's none of his business, so just don't tell him. If/when you have plans that mean you can't go visit or deliver supplies, ALL he needs to know is that the date(s) HE insists on are not open, non-negotiable, you will not be available, PERIOD. No reason why, just NOT available, and suggest a date that works for YOU. If he doesn't like that, too bad, so sad. Next date may be further out, so take it or leave it dad. THIS is what I have open.

You KNOW what he will do, so why go there? He has, I repeat, ZERO need to know why you can't go or why you are unavailable. Telling him anything just feeds the machine!!! A normal person/parent would be pleased to know you are taking time off, getting rested, having fun, etc. But, we all know he isn't a normal parent.

Saying that Dad is now FULL TILT "How can you think of going to spain and making me worry like this - its going to kill me?"

Jeez. Drama Llama. Of course, all his "facts" are totally wrong anyway. Hes convinced himself that where I'm going is a hot spot. Its not. They've had ZERO cases on the island for a month.

We have a government department here called FCO (its like homeland security). They're the ones who advise on foreign travel etc. Pretty much if FCO don't go your travel insurance is invalid.

A week or so ago they opened up tons of countries that had been locked down. Alas not the USA! They would not have done this if it wasnt fairly safe.

Not unexpected but I've really had enough of his attempts to control what I do based on his opinions.

disgusted - well to be honest, we'd only paid a deposit. Airline cancelled so they have to refund that.

Disney tickets I only bought in may and decided to pay for cancel insurance - that turns out to be a good idea! So waiting for the refund there.

Yes, even I am thinking it might not be such a good idea to go to WDW in florida at the moment? Is there even any talk of them closing again? Seems like they're ploughing on regardless?

Although it stinks that they won't consider full refunds for people like you that cannot come here due to gov't rules (vs those who just stay away), consider your loss as preventative... I opened a news article about the opening day. Mixed reviews from people, most likely positive from those who don't consider this virus that dangerous and negative from others. Several people posted images, one comparing a WDW employee welcome back, with them all separated from each other, and the other showing visitors all crammed together at the entrance (have to have temp check, etc) and in the park itself! Add to that the explosive number of cases and increased death count, no way would I want to be there!

Yes WDW - surprised its still opening to be honest. Very surprised...

Disney have been awful I must admit. Which is a shame because they're usually so good.

We get a special ticket in the uk which is good for 14 or 21 days. So what we do is upgrade one of us to an AP so u get free parking then (at $20 a day it adds up).

You actually lose on actual tickets - 2x 21 day tickets is a little cheaper than 1x21 day plus AP upgrade costs. Of course, you've got to come back in a year.

So we did this on first day - I paid $670 to upgrade.

Would have been good if I could use this year. BUT they're sticking to their story - you can only have 4 months refund. about $400.

My argument is, apart from parking, I've had nothing from the AP - I could have stuck to my original ticket. So I'm a bit out of pocket.

Their answer is "tough the park is open not our problem you can't get in".

If you haven't requested the refund for the "closed" days (it might be automatic, but at this point, will they be able to open on their current planned date (July 11?), they are doing extension of expiration date. If not, the refund should be more, HOWEVER, the other option is to have the expiration date extended. Not sure if what you have is a family pass or one pass for each of you. If one each and you go with extension, be sure to check them carefully as some comments indicate one pass was updated, the other wasn't. Choose wisely, as whichever option you do choose is final.

Calling would likely be a nightmare for you (comments from people trying this have not had a lot of luck getting through, spending hours on hold, getting hung up on, etc.) There is nothing in the search results I found about how they will deal with non-US Pass holders, and they SHOULD, because even if WDW opened up fully on the planned date, there isn't any way for you to go until the US allows non-US residents in!! I would raise holy hell myself.

Initially it sounds like they were not going to refund/extend anyone's pass, but I think it was a lot of complaints from those who had tickets (esp those with day passes that would expire while it it shut down) and being broadcast in the news... Perhaps you could email/contact some FL news outlets (tv, papers) and bring this conundrum up. Sure, Diz, open up July, Aug, whenever, but if the US gov't says we CAN'T come here, what good is it that you are open and keep my money (oh, yeah, I get the 'you keep our money')?

Disney makes enough money - and it should be about customers. If they want to continue to have ardent patrons, they would know to bend this to the customer's benefit! One person's comment said because they used the pass 10 times, they were not entitled to ANY refund... really? A pass that is supposedly good for a year? A number of those commenting said they are done, no more passes or trips to WDW. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

While some of it is fun (I took my kids when they were maybe 3 and 7), once was enough for me! The lines for many rides are ridiculous, the heat and sun was really too much (We went in May! I can't imagine what it's like in August when you go!!!) We also went to Busch Gardens - what a rip off that was! The sky ride and monorail ride were down (a reason I wanted to take the kids, so we could see the animals!) and was told the train was operational. We saw NOTHING on that train! 99% of the rides are NOT geared for kids.

Try anything once... twice if you like it... Once was more than enough!

I also agree with BarbBrooklyn's statement - disaster on top of current disaster!! It's only about 1:45 PM EDT and FL has 8,935 new cases with 119 deaths today!!!

I think opening WDW is going to be an absolute, unmitigated disaster.

Polar - lol a LOT of british people dont consider themselves european. They're "foreigners"....

In fact, we recently voted to leave the european union (a bad mistake imho).

Yes I see Florida is bad now. Bad news indeed. To be honest, when all this started in march I thought no way it going to last until august.

UK and europeans are not allowed into the USA yet anyway. And USA is on the red list for the UK too. i.e. even if you're allowed in you have to quarantine for 14 days on return.

UK government announced this last week starting tomorrow. A load of countries you can go to without quarantine. Obviously spain is on there.

Don't get me woud up up about Disney though. I've got an Annual Pass but all they will do is refund the number of days it closed march to july when it opens shortly. No consideration that some of us can't even get in the country! I'm a lot out of pocket!

So do you think WDW will still open as planned in FL?

paulfoel123-

My Mom had a minor habit of "having cancer" ever other year or so after I moved across country at 21. Since I returned at the age of 34, there was one successful attempt to derail a trip I had planned. That happened about 7 years ago.

Then, three years ago, I finally decided I HAD to get away (back to the place I call home). Well, Mom started "declining" around the time I announced my plans.

I did not budge. That decision was correct for me and family.

It sounds like your Dad considers you to be responsible for his emotional well-being. That is unfortunate. For him. He is very fortunate to have a loving and attentive son. If it helps, remember that he may not be fully conscious of his manipulation. This type of dynamic often starts when a child is very young. Don't know if this is your situation.

Good job on setting boundaries.

D

Shame Fl trip is cancelled, but at least you have a good backup!

Our planned weekend escape (in our own state) also cancelled as today we enter lockdown #2 for 6 weeks. 😩

paul: Sorry about your Florida trip being cancelled. If it's a small consolation, that is one state that has ratcheted up with new Novel Coronavirus cases.
Have fun in Lanzarote.

disgusted: You're spot on about Florida. That is one of a few states that again ratcheted up on Novel Coronavirus cases.

I think that Polarbear doesn’t know the old and definitely non-PC comment that ‘the wogs begin at Calais’.

Paul - I'm confused. Your dad hates Europeans. Isn't he living in Europe and is a citizen? That doesn't make him a European? Who does he not dislike?

You can’t please all the people all the time. I’m delighted that you aren’t taking the family to Florida – no brainer!

"Dad has been obsessive with his attempts to get me to cancel Florida. He'll be pleased about that. He is going to EXPLODE when I tell him I'm off to Lanzarote..."

Then don't tell him anything. Why feed the beast???? He has NO need to know that you canceled the trip to FL and also NO need to know about ANY of your plans with or without family. NONE. If he needs to be told anything, it is just you will be unable to visit until after X date. No explanation, just unavailable. He doesn't need to know ANY plans.

As for not being allowed into US, I have been monitoring various stats... FL is not looking very good! Since late May, with a few exceptions, deaths have been ranging upper 40s into 60s. New cases are spiraling up, on occasion almost or over 10k/day. Not a place (among others) I would want to be! While most of the infections and deaths may not be around Orlando, for sure there are some, so best to not go there. Lines at Disney might be great (aka no lines!), but would it be worth it?

Also, seems pretty clear that US is on pretty much everyone's no entry list! Even among states, as they "reopen" some avenues, there are restrictions. For instance, Maine is allowing people from several neighboring states to visit (tourists who will stay), but exclude Massachusetts. They base this on various stats, of which MA numbers are higher than ME, but the others are lower. News has covered similar issues with NY and others.

My Florida holiday in August is cancelled now. Not happy but Trump won't even let us Brits in at the moment. To be fair, USA is on UKs red list too.

So, Lanzarote it is on 20th july. Short notice!

Dad has been obsessive with his attempts to get me to cancel Florida. He'll be pleased about that. He is going to EXPLODE when I tell him I'm off to Lanzarote (which is an island that belongs to Spain).......

Can guarantee I'll get a lecture about it and how unsafe it is. I'm 52 now. Please tell it won't be too long before my parent works out I'm an adult!

He hates Europeans more than he does Americans lol...... Not keen on Aussies either.

Yeh I find it does harden your heart a lot to be honest.

I think a lot of people have lonely parents who like you to visit. It can become a bit of a chore for a lot of people I'm sure.

With me personally, not sure about you Beatty, but when he crosses the line and behaves badly then I seemed to lose any sympathy you might have had anyway.

I find it tough with my MIL. Shes been lonely during lockdown. Shes not in the same league as my Dad - maybe a little annoying, a little demanding, and does try it on a little.

BUT, I see the negative because of my experience with my Dad. I assume shes playing games and "trying it on". Half the times shes just lonely I'm sure. So maybe I'm a bit harsh with her because of how my Dad is.

What keeps me from turning into a complete cold-hearted rock is the idea that each parent does his/her best with the tools he/she had.

Sometimes the tool box is pretty empty to start! If family of origin (going back thru the generations) didn't supply then they have had to search & learn the skills through the wider world.

Mine did the best job they knew how to do. I am doing the same 😃

Yes Beatty, I think that you had a very rough time, even for this site – which I would hope has more than its fair share of carers with difficult families. I would like to think that most people can visit their parent/s regularly if not frequently, like I was able to do with my mother when she was living alone (like Paul's Dad). We can’t ‘fix’ ‘lonely and anxious’ but we can provide some family company. Sure, it can be a trial if it pins you down for Sunday tea every other week, or whatever you arrange, but it provides support that is important. And now that all of my older relatives are gone, I myself feel a bit lonely – no-one shares my memories from before my daughters were children, and I miss my mother. The challenge is to make the visits work, and it’s a lot more of a challenge for Paul than it was for me.

I’m sorry for the troubles you had, Beatty, and I’m not at all offended. But please don’t harden your heart too much!

PS Paul posted while I was writing this. His Dad really is one out of the box, you have to admit.

Beatty/Margaret - I agree with you both!

Margaret - of course hes lonely. Of course I care about him and I probably would never leave him for a month.

Beatty - I agree with you too to be honest. The more I do the less he will do for himself. Yes of course his NEEDS are met 100%

I'm happy to meet his needs, and also be there, when I can for his wants, like wanting me to visit. As long as it doesn't mean it adversely affects my family.
What I won't do is be there for his WANT of being able to control me.

I've tried in the past sitting him down and explaining nicely, I've sat his down and been harsh. In one ear and out the other every time. Hes even said in the past "well I'm old and need looking after and that's the way it is and you're family have to understand that". You can what I mean?

ps I literally had to leave the mess where it lay (cockroaches, dirty pads) before non-family help was hired. Had to leave stranded before a taxi was called. Had to refuse to assist to bathroom or clean up in hospital so the staff saw the real level of function.

I hope this is unusual & that not all carers go though this?

I don't doubt it hardened my heart 😞

Sorry Margaret & Paul! No offence intended!!!

I absolutely agree that honesty & saying what you will & will not do, now & for the future is the best way. I think many people have trouble with that, or saying no in general (I did) & they may resort to the (untrustworthy) response of 'yeah, yeah' but then don't go. I softer no is *maybe*. That's kind of what I meant. Say maybe, then don't go that time.

Paul has given him many alternatives to get his stuff done (shopping, chemist goods, appointments, taxi to betting shop etc) but he still pressures Paul to do it all. This what I meant by don't go for a month. He has food (Paul stocked the freezer) his bills are paid, the heating is on. So his NEEDS are ok - it's want of company & to control what Paul does (lonely & anxiety imo).

If Paul's Dad is lonely & anxious these are not things that Paul can or should fix.

I get the pressure. That's why I said to work back the visits to a longer time frame.

You know my tale: A social visit to one was a battle - always attempting to find out my schedule to fill up my time with chores for the other.

A social visit to the other, would be met with dishes, rubbish, cockroaches & urine soaked bedding. Alternatives had been suggested & suggested. But just can't leave it there!

My life is SO much better now I am NOT visiting those relatives in person. I can chat by phone but not be pressured into jobs as soon as I am through the door.

Ok rant over... Back to Paul. I hope you future is not my past, that's all.

Take Margaret's advice. Tell him now, with honesty (again,as I know you have). If you need more help that I can give, it's time to hire it or move.

Paul, I think it’s getting to be time to decide what you want to do for Dad, tell him, and then live it.

He is a pain in the neck, but nevertheless he is an old man and he is lonely. Beatty’s advice “Don't go. Not for a month. Then 2 months” is not kind, and actually not normal since you are not too far away. If he was more pleasant, you would probably manage a social visit every couple of weeks. You do actually care quite a lot about him.

Deciding what you want to do should include a regular social visit. It shouldn’t include anything that he can do for himself, like getting food delivered or sorting out very normal bills. Lay it on the line, in writing if you think it will stick better. Then tell him that all his demands make you less willing to see him, not more willing to help. This is what you will do, these other things you will not do, and you will not talk about them on the phone either. If he wants more support, he can easily get it by moving into AL.

I was quite shocked by Beatty’s advice. It shouldn’t come to this!