It's been a hard week....

Can't speak for how it works legally in GB, but even if he were determined to be cognitively challenged, is there really anything one can do? I know here I was told by the EC atty that we couldn't force mom to move, even knowing she was in the early stages of dementia - it progressed a bit further before the place we selected was ready. EC atty said we would need to seek guardianship. At that point we didn't even have ANYTHING from her doc (although he agreed to write something, as I needed it to be appointed rep for her pension - federal has their own rules!) So, it would have been a long expensive journey to go that route. We did not, because the facility said they would not accept committals. Creative R Us had to be invoked... She helped a bit by injuring her leg bad enough to need ER treatment and that fed into the fib needed to make the move. This dad doesn't seem to have the kind of issues one would see in early cognitive decline. Not old age type of decline, but real cognitive issues. It seems more like he is just manipulative, self-centered, selfish and possibly "needy".

So, given that his docs haven't determined him to be in any cognitive decline AND there are no POAs even if he was (again, no clue if that is sufficient there to enforce someone to move), there isn't anything that can be done to make a move happen. I'm sure there is some kind of equivalent to guardianship there, but if it is like here in the US, I seriously doubt he would be considered incompetent at this point.

Agreed it would be nice to at least check various places and know what the places are like, what they charge, what they cover for that fee, etc. They are all very different here. But, the status and costs could change at any time and availability changes all the time too. Not knowing when the major issue that will facilitate a move will happen is a huge gate.

Even if you pick a couple of potential "homes", they may not have space when needed or his condition may be beyond their capability. Mom's health is relatively stable, so she's okay in AL/MC for now. If she had a stroke or some other medical emergency that required SNF, we would have to find another place. If this dad's emergency required SNF, those "homes" visited/checked would not be what was needed. Perhaps the availability of SNFs should be checked as well. We don't know what's in store for any of us, so it is good to be prepared, but when we don't know what or when to prepare for, it is difficult.

Start researching places that are close to where you live, Paul. The big event that triggers the need for a higher level of care will happen in the blink of an eye. It is absolute Hell to have to run around looking at facilities overnight and trying to make a decision while your parent is in the hospital and needing tending there.

I speak from experience. Start looking.

Well in the past his cousin has been a bit of a nightmare. He once phoned me to "have a word about how Dad needed me".

It is quite funny because hes in for it now and will see how it all works.....

In terms of decline Barb - you may be right. My hands are tied though - there is nothing I can do if he refuses to even agree to anything.

Progress?
"...find a new servant..."
"...Get someone else roped in to do something you can do yourself..."

Sounds like maybe your last "go at him" sparked a little ember... This may be good news... perhaps he will hound this cousin for a while and leave you be, some at least! That is until the cousin figures it out! Don't tell his cousin about this site!!!

Barb, I agree the Doctor won't always see it. Especially in a 10min consult.

Teepa's stages makes sense to me. Starting with subtle changes to judgement & reasoning, the cover ups.

It's hard to distinguish though when someone has always had a ridgid way of thinking or dependant type personality always wanting help. This is my Mum too.

Label or not, to move a hard as diamond ridgid thinker into anything is hard to do!

A cousin eh? Sounds good.

Paul's boundaries mean he's not responding as dear Dad wants enough for his liking. So he's had to find a new servant (oops, sorry, cousin).

To me, the whole going out with the scooter thing has vibes of anxiety coming off it. He may be getting a bit unsure to go out alone. I can understand that, especially with all the new rules & changes. But he found himself a solution - good for him! Is the cousin about the same age? Be good company too. If he burns him out with demands, well the cousin can decide what to do about that.

Any other cousins in the area? Any in nice little aged homes? Maybe his name will somehow get onto their waitlist...

Went back and read your thread from Feb 2019. We told you then that dad was experiencing Cognitive decline, that you needed to take him to some AL places and show him what they looked like.

When this blasted virus is over, get the cousin to shill for you...you're taking HIM to see the places he's considering and dad is coming along to return the scooter favor.

I don't care if dad's GP can't see it (my mom's doc didn't see it either). Your father is displaying the symptoms of cognitive decline. Not just being annoying.

Watch Teepa Snow videos. You will pick up some techniques.

Oh his "solution" today. Hes phoned his cousin (2 years younger then him) whos agreed to go out with him on his scooter (every time!).

I pointed out that ok his cousins not going to be able to push him home or carry him home though. His answer "yes but he can sort it out if it breaks down".

Amazing bad attitude. Get someone else roped in to do something you can do yourself i.e. make one phone call.

Spoke to Dad last night. Am I too harsh on him here?

Hes got a scooter I bought for him. He said last night "Im not going to use it anymore I can;t walk home if it breaks down".

I've paid for "recovery". Basically they come out and collect you in the event of a problem.

Next excuse "how would I phone them?". Well you take the mobile phone I bought you out of the box and take it. Or since he only goes to local shops I'm sure someone would call for him.

Next excuse "I wouldnt like to ask someone". Jeez.

Sometimes I think my Dad thinks hes the only old person in the world. What on earth does he think other older people with scooters do? Once again, its always the same, give him a soultion and he just cannot be bothered.

Later in the conversation he moaned hes stuck at home all the time and I had a right go at him. Told him if he can't be bothered to get off his backside when everyone is sorting things out for him then its just tough and I'm not driving 30 mins each way every day when he makes no effort himself.

yeh uk still got to quarantine if you go the US. Think Trump still has the ban on all europeans anyway.

Hah! I find it amusing that they have "lifted" the travel ban here in the US (website identifies "hot spots" to avoid, like Brazil and Mexico, but I would think India as well!)

What it doesn't really say is that I believe most countries have a ban on US travelers - at the least they would require the 2 week isolation... kind of pointless, unless you have many more weeks of vaca available or plenty of money to allow an extended stay!

Then again, so many are out of work, have no income and have used up savings, who can afford to travel???

I imagine your father did just fine while you were away (even if he makes any claim that he didn't!).

I guess you run into one extreme or the other when it comes to caution regarding the pandemic. Some people have difficulty recognizing what should the "happy medium"--doing what's necessary without acting as if (or requiring that) everyone should be underground in a bomb shelter.

disgusted - I even sent them a link explaining why I was exempt anyway. They didnt even read it. The client managers "personal" opinion was that I shouldnt be exempt.

Crazy thing is the guy who did on call in my place, and this is so funny, lives in scotland (7 hours drive away). So hes not going to come to site anyway!

It was more of what they thought was a penalty for me not doing what they wanted. They wanted me to lie and not tell anyone I'd been away but I owned up.

Thing is I do "on call" as a favour to them. I'm not contracted to do it and I don't get paid. I get 0.1 paid day off for each on call I do. Its not a lot!

So thats 0.2 days off I've lost out on by missing 2 days on call lol. Crazy. I dont care.

Agreed Paul. The world has gone mad.

Well, FWIW I would rather someone be overly cautious than what goes on here, with so many, including government, dismissing or passing it all off as minimal...

Better that these clowns you are dealing with take the time to understand the rules. Obviously they haven't and are leaning in the TOO cautious panic mode. Well, the 2 weeks will pass quickly enough... only ~11 days left.

I also don't get why you can't support them if YOU don't go to their site and your co-worker can go if whatever needs doing can't be done remotely. Do they actually think you could infect them over the "wires"??? THAT (both not allowing co-worker to cover and maybe thinking being on-call can do something) is incredibly stupid.

Yep the worlds gone mad......

My client won't even look at the link I sent them regarding being exempt and have flown into a panic. They've even said they're "disappointed" that I couldn't "sort this out amongst ourselves" i.e. lie on the form and not admit I'd been to spain.
Amazingly bad way for a government department to behave.

Your Spanish islanders have almost no Covid cases, I just checked. This makes it a lot easier to be laid back about it!

Good to hear the (well earned) holiday was a success 🍹☀️🌴

Yeh with Dad I got the whole "I've been SO worried", and "I wasnt sure you were going to make it back". Jeez....

In reality, the spanish islanders were bemused that the UK are making such a fuss of it all. They have a different approach. Be careful but dont let it ruin you're life. In the UK at the moment, there seems to panic and nastiness all around. (Facemasks in shops in england and people not wearing them have causes lots of trouble it seems).

Of course, coming home no problem. Airport easy, flight on time, no issues. You have to wear a mask on plane but no big deal. Arrived BHX drove home. Zero drama.

Flew back into Birmingham. It was late at night there was no-one there to even check the forms had been done. Crazy.....

Yes client is a nightmare. No point upsetting them....

As I've mentioned before I do "on call". 95% of the stuff we get is fixed remotely (by connecting to work network), only once in a blue moon do I have to go to site.
I've offered to do my turn for free, and do the remote stuff. If it needs site visit I'll call the other guy (and he can claim payment if he likes).

NOPE - can't do on call AT ALL. Crazy.

The guy I met recently... "Well I don't have it".

Well yeah he did.

Mild symptoms: Test day 1 neg. Test day 4 or 5 pos.
57 heath workers sent home to isolate. 3 people infected. 2 of those were in masks. Without masks may have been 57.

This virus is incidious. I take it very seriously.

(I was one of the 57, but neg)

Even if the UK does not have mandated quarantine for returned travellers then, to appease your client you could stay away. Schedule zoom meetings instead? If face to face is required, wear a mask, keep the distance & keep it short.

Closely monitor your family for symptoms over the next 14 days & of course get tested if any throat tickle.

No-one wants to be patient zero to a start a cluster!

I would not be visiting Dad for at least 14 days.

Hi Paul, welcome home. Just for curiosity, did you have a direct flight back to Heathrow? Flights are quite an issue here.

Paul- Glad to see you back. OTT dad and now OTT client. Gee! Sorry you have to deal with them.

Hope things will settle down with the client.

Welcome back! Glad you were able to have some kind of vaca. Once again, I'd rub it in dad's face - oh, I'll be so worried, oh, it'll kill me... still kickin' eh pops?

Monitoring through that world of meters, I found it a bit odd that Spain would be 'picked on'... looking at the stats, some uptick in cases, but not deaths... yet. Still, it isn't REALLY bad, and given you weren't on the mainland, does seem a blanket 'ban' or isolation on return shouldn't be called for...

Additionally, here they've reduced the quarantine to 10 days (not that you would need that), not 2 weeks anymore. I would think so long as they implement the safety checks and protection, what's the big deal? They don't want you in, then you do what you can, if anything, from home, and anything else will just wait!

Yes I was there. Back yesterday...... Bit of a nightmare.

Its fine there its 1000 miles from madrid in the middle of the ocean off the coast of africa. (Lanzarote). There have been zero cases of covid on the island for two months yet the uk government saw fit to quarantine ALL of spain arrivals.

Crazy. I've had a huge argument with my client (who are NOT my employer) who are demanding I dont go into work for two weeks because they don't know the rules. I'm actually exempt (work on critical it infrastructure).

Dad as expected went into a massive OTT frenzy. I phoned him as little as I could but each conversation was basically, "you need to come home NOW" and me "Nope its all fine here".

Massive hassle with the quarantine thing and work now.

...and it's probably (or at least I hope!) an enjoyable time for him and his family even with the potential restrictions!

Disgusted, I'm pretty sure that Paul and family are already there. They're on an offshore island with no issues, so the major risk is the flight coming back - planes and their air flow are a disaster, which is why new arrivals are such an issue here. I'm not sure if there if there are entry issues coming home either. I hope they stay safe.

Based on recollection of old vacations, is your trip to Spain next month? I saw something last night and checked today - now the UK is advising against going to Spain (does your dad have connections???) Looks like it's "advised" and the restrictions are self-isolation when you return, but if vaca is in a few weeks, things could change! Hoping maybe you are already there, since it has been quiet here...