It's been a hard week....

You might want to stay off the M4 on a sunny Good Friday, too.

Hes in full scale "pity party" mode this week. Worn out from last weekend I think.

Called the doc who again refused to come out.....

Hes wanting me to commit to doing xyz for him the weekend and I've said no.

To be honest, I've got loads on at the moment - wife has broken her wrist, shes got possible pneumonia (ended up is hospital last sunday), someones got to look after the kids. And I'm on call with work and my car has died so at some point I need to buy a car!

Dad knows all this but as usual its all about what he wants. Hes not speaking to me now because I said no I can't commit to anything at the weekend because of this.

Well if he's not speaking to you it should be a nice peaceful weekend, then, eh?
Count your blessings.

What were the xyz or will I be sorry I asked?

CM - of course!

xyz - usual things like I've got no food in the house (he has plenty), I need you to get some money for me (hes got thousands in the house). All normal scams to force me to visit.

To be honest, I probably would have popped in at some point anyway. That's what he fails to understand. It puts me off going now though because I know he'll be off on one.

Now I won't bother because he wants me to commit to visiting at x time on x day and he'll scam me this way to make sure it happens. Past experience has shown that the world could be ending in three days but I'd have to be there at the agreed time.

If I'm 5 mins late I get a phone call with him telling me hes worried about me because he thought something had happened to me! He always does this - its like his way to control me.

Did it the weekend - I'd gone into marks and spencers to sort his clothes and left him in the car. I was quick probably 10 mins. Not quick enough for Dad who feigned a panic attack that something had happened to me.

Don't see many people getting mugged or kidnapped in M&S in leafy hampshire on a good friday morning but there we go!

Paul, it seems to me that the underlying problem that you dad has is unremitting anxiety.

To you, it feels like control, a pity party and the like.

That's what my brother said about our mom.

To make a very long story short, after a full on neuropsych workup, it turns out she'd had a strong. And qualified for a dx of Mild Cognitive Impairment. Meaning that she could reason her way out of a paper bag. Had no sense of proportion. Anything less than 10 years worth of food, 2 decades worth of toothpaste and toilet paper and a century of cash on hand was a national emergency.

Oh, and the loss of sense of time! 5 minutes meant I was bound and gagged somewhere.

Life improved amazingly once we knew all this and got her on meds.

He's got thousands in the house? Literally? In cash?

How many people know that?

Horrible things happen to vulnerable old people when their local scallywags get a whiff of valuables in their houses. Word gets around.

And for heaven's sake stop feeling so sorry for yourself. It isn't you who's desperate for attention. It isn't you who wets yourself if you get stuck too long in the car. It isn't you who's got nothing better to do than catastrophise about the few people in the world you care about. His feelings are not connected with real events but the feelings themselves are real, and he is the one who suffers from them.

Not going to see him - if you actually had planned to - because you're annoyed with him is daft and unreasonable. If you planned to go, go. If you didn't, don't. But don't turn it into a battle of wills over ten past three on Saturday or bust.

Paul,

Most likely your brother or his companion won’t pitch in. Tell your dad to call them.

Your dad is so used to getting his way.

Years ago I had a coworker that always asked for rides. She lived in the opposite direction of where I needed to go to get home.

It started off as just a ride home. Bad weather, she normally took public transportation. I felt badly for her and gave her a ride. Then it was, she wanted me to pick her up on the way to work because she was running late and had missed the bus. It was always something. This kept happening because I allowed it. She got used to it.

It was difficult because I needed her to be at work. Otherwise, my work day would have been a nightmare.

I finally said that either she pays me what she would pay for a taxi, with a tip or I could not do it. She was so angry with me. At that point I didn’t care if she got mad.

She was just like your dad, very frugal with money! All of a sudden she was on time for the bus and took taxi cabs if it was pouring down rain so she wouldn’t get wet walking to the bus stop. She bought a large umbrella and used it! We resumed a coworker relationship.

Tell him to rent a car for you and pay for the gas! 😆 Hahaha. He won’t ask again. Or don’t answer phone but tell your brother to check on him to make sure he’s okay.

CM,

My mom hates debit cards. Never had one. Uses checks or cash. Frugal old people use cash or checks for purchases. She only has one credit card and very seldom uses it. That’s how they are.

It is dangerous for him to have large amounts of cash laying around.

NeedHelpWithMom;

I think it best to start with determining what you think is the definition of a "frugal old" person... By my kids standards, I am old, and by my standards definitely frugal...

I don't hate debit cards, but very rarely do I use mine other than if I might need cash for something (maybe total of 4-5 times in years, once in error at a gas station.) Even getting cash is a rarity. I have been using mom's (I am on the account and have one in my name) to get items she might need, including cash for hairdresser tip, but that's about it!

Checks? Only when I have no other option (paying for work done on house for instance.) Cash? What's that??? I hate using cash - then I have to 1) keep track of where it all went to (it seems to disappear quickly!) and 2) worry about losing it somewhere along the way!

Until we moved mom, her discover card was how she generally paid for purchases. She did have cash and at one point had a stash for herself and one that she told me about for "just in case", but despite looking for that second one (depleted the first one before the move), we didn't find it - probably got spent at some point. She was 93 when we moved her, and was still using the card, but it was a matter of time before I had to take that too (certainly not for use when in MC) as she was always 'misplacing' it IN her purse, asking me to cancel it and then finding it. Second time I just waited a week and then asked her to search her purse - oh, there it is! Saved me canceling, and making a trip to her place as they would NOT allow me have online access or to order new card without her okay, despite POA - they were the only entity that ever restricted what I could do.

For me, credit card(s) all the way!! I make sure the balance is paid each month, collect my "cash back" which pays for some of the balance and even take advantage of FREE balance transfers to cover unexpected shortfalls (no int, no fee are the best!)

I agree that paulfoel's dad should not keep "thousands" in his house... Is there really any solution to that? If he's competent, it is his decision. Hopefully it is in a safe place (or places) and paulfoel knows where the place(s) are! Mom's stash that I mentioned above was probably no more than $500, kept in case she "had to get outta here"... Not sure why she felt she would need cash to get out and go somewhere in an emergency - especially with a credit card in hand!

I also agree with some of BarbBrooklyn's comment - needing to keep X amount of stuff, buying more when there is sufficient (part of that was just plain forgetting that she had a stash already but no clue where it was or sense enough to check to see if she had it!), making a few minutes seem like ages. Some anxiety, sure. Some is just loneliness, some is control, but there is likely some underlying cognitive decline too (lends itself to the forgetfulness and/or losing concept of time.

I would still recommend standing your ground on not saying how high when he says jump. No need to be rude, just a simple can't do it now, gotta run and provide no reason to feed into his method of turning it around on you.

You have a lot on your plate at the moment. Make a plan to see him on a specific day and try to stick to that - a routine. It is too bad if he won't go to a day program or allow someone to come in just to keep him company. Must be very lonely and boring being holed up in his place. What does he do all day? Does he have any hobbies, even if it is reading, TV programs, movies? I live alone, but have plenty to keep me busy, including managing things for mom and a clowder of cats!

Paul - I am sorry to hear about your wife and hope she feels better soon. I'm also sorry to hear about your car, that's unfortunate! Hope you find a replacement soon. You're getting some good support and suggestions here. I'm glad you're listening and sharing. I agree with CM, try not to let everything be a power struggle. I know it's hard because resentment leads to rebellion and it's a way of maintaining a feeling that you're the one in charge. But doing the opposite of what he wants just to "show him who's boss" when you actually planned to do it anyway seems a little .... well... forgive me for saying so, but a rather juvenile way of going about it. It's like a toddler who says, "you can't make me, you're not the boss of me," and doesn't do something he WANTS to do just because he was told to do it. Heck, my 12-year old does that! But I'm hoping he'll outgrow it, lol. YOU decide what you want to do -and when! - and then stick to your plan. Regardless of what he says or does. You can't control him. Control YOU. Good luck!
- Des

Paul - You've made some good progress toward setting limits and boundaries with your self-centered dad. Keep it up!

Don't waiver!
Don't answer his calls. Let them go to voicemail then call back when you can.
Don't allow him to control and manipulate you.
Know that we're here rooting for you, Paul.

I'm sorry about your wife's broken wrist and pneumonia. I hope she will heal soon, although as we age, it takes longer for the body to heal.

Hope you will find a good deal on a car. Do you have one in mind? I never like to buy new cars. They lose value as soon as you drive off the lot. Personally, I don't mind driving an old car, I don't feel bad if it gets dings and scratches.

Thanks all - to explain a bit about not wanting to visit. I've got a lot on at the moment as I've said.

Chances are 95% this weekend I'd have popped over anyway if I had time. Not sure when. BUT when he starts laying on the guilt trip, trying to get me to agree to something I can commit too, then I think hang on now.

Hes been REALLY bad this week doing it. And I've told him look I can't do it. If I go over this weekend then I can guarantee it will confirm to him that his tactics are working - if he badgers me long enough I'll give in. Next week he'll do the same because it worked this week.

Also, I've found when hes like this, I can look forward to a ear bashing when I get there. I'll get grief about how much money I spend, how I spoil my kids, even how my wife should help him more and do his laundry. Its just not a nice visit.

Paul.

You say that the chances are 95% - i.e. a racing certainty - that you would have visited your father this weekend.

But that now you don't want to because he's been nagging you all week and it's never something to look forward to anyway.

This makes no sense. This is a waste of your time and nervous energy.

YOU decide whether or not to visit your father. You know what he is like. You know his favourite topics of conversation. None of the whining/jibing stuff is new. If you still think it is time to visit him and check him out, you go. If you don't, you don't.

Stop dreading it. Stop fencing with him about it. Do it or don't do it, but make the decision for the right reasons, independent of what he's being like.

Alas, I think I've caught my wifes virus or whatever. In work today feeling rough. Unfortunately, I'm a consultant so no work no pay for me which is why I'm here.

(Have to bleeding out of my eyeballs to miss a days billing!)

Hope you feel better soon, Paul. Can you make some hot tea? Tea is soothing for me when I am not feeling well.

disgusted,

Yes, concerning financial matters, it’s up to the individual. My mom has always been super frugal which is a good thing, never ending up in debt.

I just don’t think elderly people should carry a large amount of cash on them. We have a lot of crime, mugging in New Orleans. Sad. At least with debit cards, they can be canceled.

Not everyone should have credit cards. There again, my mom hardly ever uses hers and pays it off as soon as bill arrives. That’s my mom, though. Been that way forever but some people really rack up the bills.

Paul,

Your dad’s personality sounds so much like my mom and with mom it isn’t an old person’s perspective thing, she’s always been this way. They make complaining a hobby and it’s habitual. I don’t even think they realize it. I keep saying I will record her so she can hear herself complain so much because she doesn’t believe me when I tell that she complains about everything.

As soon as one thing is resolved, she will find something else to be upset about. Worrying and complaining go hand in hand. Thing is, it’s not effective for them. People around them learn to tune it out.

Agreed no one, never mind elderly, should carry around large amounts of cash - it is a loss waiting to happen!

Credit cards often have NO responsibility for compromised cards/bogus charges - the most I've read for one card (not one I have) was a $50 responsibility, but more than likely you can get these waived.

"...At least with debit cards, they can be canceled." Generally when reported, credits cards are canceled and a new number/card is sent out, and as noted the charges are waived (may take a while but meanwhile you do not have to pay or get charged interest.) Debit cards can be cancelled as well, HOWEVER, once the money is taken out of the account, it can take time (and depending on the bank, a hassle) to get it all back! Meanwhile, if all funds are sucked out, you are left high and dry. I really don't like debit cards much...

But, this isn't really the topic here, so let's drop this for now -m

paul: "Having thousands in the house" makes him a target for theft. Goodness! That's just an accident waiting to happen! He or you need to amend that STAT!

Come on, Paul. You go visit your dad to check on him. You can sit and watch the telly with him, watch cricket, talk weather or politics or whatever. You set the limits on the conversation. You can only get an "ear-bashing" if you allow it. If he takes up a topic you don't like, say, how about that kick, Dad, did you see that? If he continues say "that's not your concern Dad, don't worry about it." If he persists, say, "Well, it was nice seeing you, gotta go." If he gripes about you leaving, TELL HIM, Dad, I would stay longer but it's no fun when you give me grief. See you next time." Then LEAVE. As my sister used to say, "There are no victims, only volunteers." Stop volunteering! When you don't like what's happening, LEAVE. You're not a prisoner, except of your own making.

DesertGrl53 - yes that sounds very good.

To be honest, I've been ill since Thursday. I did tell him Friday, Dad look I'm not all that well at the moment, and I still need to look for a new car so I'm sorry I won't be over.

I guess I should be used it now but he still phoned at 11am, 1110, 1120, 1130, 1140, 1150, 1200, 1210,1220, 1230 on sunday and left umpteen messages asking if I was coming over. I was in bed at the time ill so didn't get the messages till later.

It was a short conversation later - I can hardly speak and he can't hear on the phone best of times!

Don't all shout at me I'm slightly better today but I'm in work for a few hours today. No work no pay and all that. (I do miss a permanent job sometimes I could have milked this for at least a week off sick on full pay).

Llama - He refuses to give up on his cash at home. His idea is what if theres an emergency and he needs to pay for something.

I've offered solutuions such as walk the 2 mins to the bank to the ATM to get the cash (his answer but the bank might be closed if its a sunday - he doesnt get ATM), phone me and I can pay for whatever using my credit card then let me transfer the money from your account whenever (no I'm not letting you get into debt with a credit card -again the concept of using a credit card and paying it off totally escapes him!).

I've given up he never listens to me anyway.

Paul.

Did you say to your father on Friday in words of one syllable "I cannot visit you this weekend"? Did he repeat that back to you so that you could be certain he understood you?

If so, and he left repeated voicemails asking if you were coming over, do you still think there is nothing really wrong with him?

ATMs were introduced in the UK in 1967, he's had a while to figure them out. So if your father now worries that they don't work on Sundays, his brain has apparently returned to the 20th century.

It is only a matter of time, Paul. Hadn't you better decide how to get ahead of the curve?

Ha Ha - I think his brain was always 30 years behind even when he was young lol.

Thing is CM he perfectly understood what I said. I've had it so many times before. He will agree at the time, but then at some point, will decide it seems I should come over regardless and will start to phone as if nothing had been mentioned. In the past, I've said Dad we talked about his yesterday and hes said yes I know I was just wondering if you'd changed your mind.

1967 for cashpoints. I wasn't even born! He would have 33 at the time. He has NEVER used a cashpoint in his life. But thats Dad for you - if he doesnt have to think about something new why bother? Even 40 years ago he'd just stroll into the bank and go to the counter. They'd say to him it'd be easier to use the cashpoint - no queue but he'd refuse.

Hes been like it all his life not just recently. Never learned to drive- why bother when others can give you a lift.

Never used a washing machine. As a kid of 5 or 6, I remember walking to my grans about a mile at least every Sunday, with Dad lugging a huge suitcase full of dirty washing for her to do. Then lugging it home. Why I think now?

His family are partly to blame. If you offer anything to my Dad and he'll jump in and that'll be your job until hell freezes over. His mother did washing for years, he married again so he was sorted, then he got divorced again, retired from work (aged 58) and moved into a flat. I sorted all the flat purchase and furnishings out but he point blank refused to have a washing machine. Played helpless card, so his older sister offered and there was no way I'd get anywhere now. Why learn when someone will do it for you? She did his washing for years until she got too ill. Since then various brothers GF do this laundry. I stay well away from that one.

Point being I know you're trying to say that Dad is declining cognitively but I don't he ever set the bar that high even when he was young. Its just more pronounced and stubborn now!

No. The point being: where do you think it's going to go from here? How more pronounced is this going to get before it crosses the line to dangerous?

The 'oh yes I did remember you said you weren't coming but' - no, he didn't remember. Put yourself in his shoes on the Saturday, repeatedly dialling your number and leaving messages. At that point, unprompted, he did not remember the conversation you had had with him the day before.

Whether he never did do his own laundry and avail himself of exciting new technology because he was too lazy or too thick or too canny or whatever, doesn't matter. Compare him with his functioning peers now.

Find him a care home.

Paul, you are being really thick.

In words of one syllable, your dad as a personality disorder, now has dementia and needs to be in care.

Start looking at places. When you've found 3 that are suitable, get their glossy brochures. Then check back here for the next step. Feel better.

Paul - your dad in years past was too pampered and enabled by his family, and now he expects the same from his children. I am glad you can see the humor in it.

I agree with you that your dad is more stuck in his way now as he is older and cognitively declined. I doubt he will ever change, not voluntarily anyhow. Your brother and his GF are enabling him. You, too, as well, but you have reached a point where you wanted change and you began to set boundaries. Keep working on those boundaries. Come here and vent anytime you want, it's very therapeutic. That's what many of us do here since we can't change our situations.

With a stubborn old dad who is still clear minded enough to refuse outside help, I don't see dad's situation changing anytime soon unless and until you or your brother decides to stop enabling or your dad deteriorates much more. Then it's time for a care home.

CM and Barb have good suggestions on what to do as far as next steps go. Explore them so you can be prepared. It's good to share the information with your brother and his girl friend, too. It takes time to change one's mind, so give yourself and them time to let the information sink in. That way, when it's time for care home, you and your brother can be on the same page. You don't want him working against you.

In the meantime, keep working on your boundaries.

How's your wife's doing? What cars are you thinking of to buy next? A wealthy friend of mine and her husband just bought a Tesla, a self-driving car. It was around $100K. Her husband loves it and lets it drive him to work everyday. Would be fun and scary to test drive one of those. For now, I am content with my 17 y.o. van that still runs very good. (Knocking on wood.)

Sorry you've been ill, Paul. Take care of yourself! And hey, I would never shout at you! 😉 I know you are doing the best you can in a difficult situation. I'm sorry if I've sounded critical, I never meant to. I think everyone here is trying to encourage and support you. Take care.