It's been a hard week....

Paul does that store near you deliver? If not, next time you are headed to your dad's, buy a month's worth of those meals. Really stock his freezer. Would that help?

I'm glad you maintained your boundary with him. No need to get angry. No is a complete sentence.

ACaringDaughter - another one.

Where exactly did anyone say about depriving him of food exactly? Hes got food, hes got someone else to get it for him, someone who can get it delivered for him. He chooses to use the food thing to play games.

Unfortunate fact of life that people with elderly parents occasionally have other responsibilities too like kids. Are you suggesting that someone should ignore these and focus completely on your elderly parents?

Not sure if you've been following but should I ignore my 15 year son with Aspergers from now on (he needs time believe me!), my neuro-typical 5 year old takes up a lot of time too (and despite what my dad would like I cant leave her home alone when my wifes working and I visit Dad). Oh and did I mention my wife whos got Fibromyalgia, struggles some days, walks with a crutch some days.

Now, when I've been lied to about having seen no-one, got no food in the house just to try and make me drop everything to visit. (When I visit when I can anyway just not enough for his liking). And don't even get me started on the fake illnesses and fake injuries to get the same affect.

Now "ACaringDaughter" please reply. Do you think I'm still being unfair to him and neglecting him?

Barb - they do. Minimum order is £40 though. He spends a paltry £15 a go. (Buy too much and he can't use the no food excuse 5 days later!).

I've tried - hes said hes not allowing a stranger to deliver food to him - he doesnt want to blow all that money in one go (Hes got about £50K in the bank). Hes said if I ever did he would leave it on the doorstep. He would too.

I wonder what that means to him, " I won't have a stranger deliver food to me"? He must attach some shame to that.

That might be worth exploring at a calm moment.

Is his reluctance to stock up due to the fact that he'd then only have £10 in the bank after he did? What if you fronted him the money and he paid you back over 2 weeks or something?

Thanks for all the advice. Had a chat with brother the weekend - he is a huge part of the problem to be honest.

He lives a mile away. No kids (that he lives with). A partner that doesn't work. He works as a welder which Dad recognises as proper work. (Us office workers are just pen pushers).

Of course, brothers partner visits him in the week, does his shopping, panders to him. Plenty of spare time on her hands. I think a lot of it with her is she can see some money coming her way.

(You may have seen the story on her where she had a bright idea to claim something we have in the UK called "Carers Allowance". Until she found out you had to 35 hours per week of caring and it was £85 a week. She was thinking of 2 shopping trips per week , £200-£300 kerching. She dropped that one hit a hot turd when she found out)

Same with brother at the weekend. Hes got time.

BUT when it suits him (and her) he disappears. Tells Dad hes working oh so hard, 12 hours shifts (then I see photos on facebook of him in the pub). If I told him I'd worked for 3 weeks with no sleep he'd say something like "yes but you're only pushing papers around or tapping the keyboard".

Brothers attitude is "hes our Dad and we've got to help him whenever he wants". And "yes he can be a bit funny but we've got to do what he wants".

Because its easy for him. As I posted on here a few weeks ago he text me one saturday "can you take your turn and visit day today because I'm doing something". With everything going on I just couldnt do it, wife was working, I was taking son somewhere, daughter to party etc so I said sorry no I can't.

He mentioned this weekend that I don't help Dad and put everyone before him. Jeez.

Paul, to repeat this question, and please sit down with your calendar and look at it: what time can you easily and cheerfully spare your father each week/month?

Waitrose delivery drivers, Wiltshire Farm Foods delivery drivers, and as far as I know Iceland too, will not allow orders to be left on the doorstep. Tesco and Sainsbury similarly. They will come into the house and unpack the food. They are all DBS certified. It's an incredibly competitive market and I haven't yet encountered a problem, except when Ocado's freezers broke down and they sent their drivers out on Christmas Eve with - I quote - "big chickens" instead of their customers' turkey orders. I'd booked the 6am delivery slot and was one of the lucky ones, my turkey was safe, first thing I checked, of course. The poor driver looked haunted. He was going to get lynched and he knew it. But I digress...

If you enjoy futile arguments with your Dad, then please, carry on and don't mind us. If you don't, there are many, many solutions.

Paul, your brother is likely repeating what your dad said, right?😀

Look, it's hard when the folks in your extended family don't understand that children and wives come first. And who don't understand that while your work isn't physical, mental stress from the kind of job you have is trebly exhausting.

You're not going to change folks who are thick and stubborn. You can only change your own attitude and behavior. Have you ever thought about getting some professional advice about all this?

BarbBrooklyn - £50K hes got in his bank account. £50,000. (about $65,000) Plenty lol. Not that he spend a penny of it if he can.

He could afford gold dipped chips, delivered by naked supermodels in the back of a Ferrari Testarossa if he wanted to!

Im sure some of his neighbours have food delivered. As CM says its popular in the UK right now - and easy to do. But they wont deliver £5 worth of food for obvious reasons.

Its just a scam from him. If he gets it delivered its one less thing to hang over me as an excuse to get me to go there.

BarbBrooklyn - Yes my brother is somewhat unique in terms of family commitment. Unlike me.

He has got kids but they are no longer part of his life shall we say.

Two partners, 3 kids. Acrimonious splits but hes just never pursued it. Would rather moan on facebook. He even once refused to file with the courts to force ex to reveal new address - because it cost £200 (a few nights out for him)

In both cases, Dad agreed with him not to bother. Because it cost money and brother couldnt afford it (he can afford it easily!). You can see how they both are with family? Im the black sheep.

Whats really weird is my parents divorced when I was three. Lived in Canada at the time. Dad voluntarily opted for custody (so he says) and came back to the UK with both of us and brought us up which was very rate in the 70s. Hardly seen mother since.

Knowing Dad as I've got older its totally out of character with him. I don't understand it. He tells my brother to leave his kids, he can't do anything so forget them.

I'll probably never find out but I always wonder if his story about how things worked out when we were young is true. It doesn't sound like him. I wonder if he got somehow forced into a situation he didn't want.

Also, he remarried when I was older (got divorced when I was 23). Step mother wasn't great but I saw first hand just how he was being married to someone and it wasn't great the way he behaved at times.

Paul sorry for misreading the money. Still, it's not a fortune to have left in retirement funds to last a decade, is it? Is that the extent of his assets?

As for the strangers bringing food, I don't mean neighbors getting delivery. What I mean is that anyone who thinks of Pasta Bolognese as
"foreign rubbish" is likely to have some old fashioned ideas about food delivery. Like, that perhaps it's only for the indigent...or the very rich.

I'm simply suggesting that having a conversation about that with him might be useful. Rather than shouting at him "home truths".

@Barb Hes got multiple pensions which more than pay for his outgoings. His savings have increased by about £10K in the last 10 years - he saves money on his pension. He is quite comfortable financially.

He has some ideas what is indulgent. Owning a car that cost more than £200, taxis etc. so I see what you mean.

I mentioned his neighbours because a lot of them are elderly like him. If they do something he sometimes will as well.

Does he TALK to his neighbors? Can you enlist one of them to talk up how wonderful delivery is?

Interesting situation, that he (voluntarily) took you boys at a time when daddy-custody was quite rare. Was mom troubled in some way? Have you ever talked to your mom about that whole situation, or your dad?

Look, Paul, one of the things about being a "real" grownup is letting go of our childhood myths. "Daddy adored his Mother in Law and she him" was a line that was frequently fed to me in my childhood. One of my cousins said that recently and I spit out my wine, it was so laughably false.

It takes guts (and sometimes therapy) to come to an appreciation (by which I mean a fully rounded evaluation) of the flawed human beings who parented us. But that knowledge is also self-knowledge and it's a useful tool to have, both in dealing with your own children and your parents.

@Barb I've mentioned to his one neighbour before and shes said to him how good it is. Hes not convinced.

Nah seen mom about 3 times in 45 years... Still resident of Edmonton, Alberta I believe. Her sister (who I did see a lot growing up) still lives near Dad. I've often considered getting more info from her to be honest.

BUT do I want to find out? Dad is already causing me major grief. Do I want to find out that the hes not the saint hes painted himself to be during our childhood (which is what I fear may be true)?

I already have to admit to myself that, event though hes my Dad and I love him, he does not treat people right. Not sure if I want to find out that hes worse.

You already know he's not a saint. You don't and you never did love him for his saintliness.

He is, however, your only available Dad; and he's an old man in poor health; and whatever his shortcomings, he did stick around.

Besides, none of this makes any difference. You give him the care you're willing to give him because of what you are like. Not because of what he is like, and certainly not because of the Parent Points he accumulated while you were growing up.

What you'll get from your aunt, Paul, is a more nuanced idea of what went on. Not sure that what you'd find out would be "worse" in any way...so what if dad took both of you because he thought it would be cheaper to raise you both himself instead of paying child support?

Your dad IS who he is and is not going to change; neither will your brother. You clearly have a different set of values than the others you know in your family. But it would be interesting to some folks to find out where those values come from.

Let me tell you a story. I have a second cousin who grew up not knowing his mom's (my) family. His dad's family was a carousing, drinking cops and firefighters crew. Lovely, wonderful people. But my cousin didn't really fit it. He was a closet intellectual. He's gay. He googled his mom's last name and lo and behold, he discovered the OTHER end of the family, the folks with PhDs and tenure track jobs at major universities. It opened his eyes to where HE fit in.

Just saying, something might be waiting for you at your aunt's, over tea.

Paul,

Your dad survived without your help! Yay! You did it! You didn’t buckle under to his ridiculous suggestion of walking to the store. He was being incredibly inconsiderate and you pointed that out to him and followed through with telling him no. Keep it up! Good for you!

Sooner or later, he will see he can’t push you past your limit. Maybe not overnight but soon.

Your family needs you. You need them. You deserve time together, so dad has to compromise. End of story.

Let him start nagging your brother. If he won’t, oh well, he won’t starve. He will figure it out.

As usual Barb and CM gave great responses! I have benefited from their advice. I was like you and had a ton of excuses for mom. Some of my excuses were legitimate but many were not. We have to deprogram ourselves from the cult of mom or dad!

I enjoy chatting with my 97 year old cousin. She is delightful. It is wonderful to speak with an intelligent, interesting person in my nutty family. You may want to reconnect with your aunt.

CM is correct by saying hang up! I can’t hang up on mom, she lives with me but I have learned to walk away to a different room when needed.

You asked for a response, Paul, and here it is —

I just wish you the best. I truly do. I understand. I’ve been a caretaker of many for many years. I know how it feels when there is so much on your shoulders that you just can’t juggle any more. And then life gives you more, and more.

I hope you can still can see the positives in your life. We all have them.

One day, we are driving along, irritated about our own long “to do list” and then we get rear-ended by a truck, and our problems and “to do list” become a lot worse. At this juncture, it is our choice to be angry or grateful.

We all should do our best to find the positive (or at least —-the least of the negatives) every day.

Teach your kids this. Show them that you can still be strong and happy when times are tough, when you are facing illness, adversity, frustrating circumstances, pain, hurt, loss.

Life wasn’t supposed to be fun—- but when it isn’t, you can still have fun, you can still enjoy. You can still appreciate. You can make your own happiness by dedicating yourself to being happy.

Paul - I have a suggestion. Maybe it's been mentioned and I don't know since I didn't read all the comments.

One of the reasons your dad doesn't want grocery delivery because of the extra cost. Obviously, he's sensitive to the expense even though he has money. Then, how about enticing him with a free trial period. Tell him you will pay for his groceries to be delivered at no cost to him for a couple of weeks, a month, or a few deliveries, or whatever you decide. Maybe throw in some of his favorite food, steaks and lobster tails (that'll entice me :D ), a bottle of wine, etc. Will he say no to that offer?

If he doesn't want to accept food, good good, delivered for free to his door, then it's HIS decision to STARVE himself. No loss to you. And be sure, if he's really starving, he will not say no.

If he says yes, then he can see how convenient it is and that there is nothing to fear about having groceries delivered. He might even strike up conversations with the delivery person and have a laugh or two. You never know. Then hopefully after that, he will continue to accept deliveries and pay for them himself.

Or, to keep him interested, you can offer to pay for his food periodically. Think of it this way, either you spend time, and money on gas, driving around to pick up and drop off groceries, or you can spend it on having the them delivered. Money you would otherwise spent on gas or a therapist to gripe about your dad. Haha.

Paul: I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but would your dad consider getting "Meals on Wheels" delivered? It's a Monday through Friday service, which is a "delivered at noon" meal and you can also apply special requests (no salt, diabetic, food allergy, etc.) It used to be a $12/per week donation - my late mother always insisted on paying. Just a thought...

Llama,

That’s under his $15 weekly food budget. Good job!

Have a feeling Paul’s dad won’t agree though 😕

Polar,

Worth every penny to be sure!

Ooh I so get this! Any time that is one of my days off and I choose to go do something out (shopping, talk a walk, hang with a friend, whatever, just that I’m not at home - dad lives with my husband and I) when I get home my dad will go on and on about “it sure is lonely around here” without fail, every single time. Now, on my workdays, when I’m away from the house like twice as many hours, he never ever says a word. As though he understands I have to work but have no right to be away from the house if I don’t have to go to work.
I usually just say “oh, sorry” and ignore if he keeps it up. It’s super aggravating.

NeedHelpWithMom: Thank you! Worth a shot anywho even if dad complains!

Llama - he gets meals on wheels as well a few days a week. Moans about the cost - its a similar sort of cost in the uk. (As you can see hes not going to starve!)

Polar - even if I paid for the food he'd refuse. Hes thought of this "loophole" and told me this. Of course, its all a scam to make sure I visit (which as I said I do anyway. Perhaps less these days because of the way he is - his behaviour actually makes me less inclined to visit!).

ERAsDaughter - yes I get this too. As if every spare moment is his. I went away for 2 nights the other weekend with wife and 5 year old.

He had to the nerve to say "Yes I don't mind if you go away, it'll be a nice break, I expect I'll manage". WTF since when do I need to ask permission?

Holidays as you can imagine are a trying time. We normally come to Florida for 3 weeks. The weeks before are hell with all sorts of illnesses coming out in at attempt to convince me I shouldn't go. When I'm there he expects phone calls pretty much daily with the excuse he's worried about me. (BTW - he hates Americans and thinks the USA has gangland shootings on every corner. The only crook I've ever seen in central florida has got two big ears ;-)

I refuse to pander to this and he goes mad. Its 5 hours time difference to the UK which doesn't help, phone calls especially mobile/cell calls cost a fortune and, the main reason, I'm actually having fun with my young family! I do ring him but not as much as he'd like.

He phoned me today when I was in work. Yeh cheers Dad.

After this weekends disagreement, it seems my wife is taking the blame. Don't know why to be honest. Dad has now come out with "I need to have a word with her and tell her whats what and shes going to have to understand".

To be fair my dear wife had nothing to do with my recent dealings with him. She just keeps out of it and away from him (which I can't blame her for to be honest).

Lucky I was in work to be honest otherwise I could detect imminent launch to planet meltdown at my end. My Dads been divorced twice, never been married more than 10 years apparently, yeh he thinks its ok to give me marital advice. Jeezzzzzzzzz I'm going to block his calls from now on during the day...... otherwise my head is going to implode.

Just saying the other day my wife and I have been together 30 years now (married 22 of those).

Paul, have you sorted out yet who is coordinating dad's care?

He's gone mental and needs an evaluation of his cognitive processes.

Paul - DO IT. Block his calls at least during your work hours and during your family time. Don't let him hijack your life.

Like many shut-in elders, he's become a demanding, self-centered, life sucking vampire. He can't see beyond HIS own needs. No use convincing him. He's too wrapped up in himself to see anyone's point of view.

Your phone's END button and voicemail features are your best friends to save your sanity. Use them.

I notice that you seem to want to convince him, want him to see your point of view, want him to agree. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get reading your posts. You're wasting your time, and will only succeed in aggravating yourself. So, stop doing that.

Just set aside whatever day and time you can visit him, then tell him that. When he demands that you come on other days and times, just tell him no, you have other obligations, and you will see him on your designated day. Don't explain yourself or give him reasons. Just say bye and use the END button.

One good thing about your situation compared to many others, your dad isn't living with you. If he did, he might have destroyed your marriage.

Paul,

Your dad and my brother would get along! On wife number 4! Gives advice all the time. We have been married 40 years!

Wife #1, he was young, age 18, 2 kids, had affairs. Didn’t keep a job! Wife kicked him out!

Wife # 2 oooh, good job, he could live off her paycheck! Wanted kids, my brother didn’t want kids with her, he had more affairs. One affair was with the neighbor. Volunteered with police department. He goes to police academy, becomes a cop.

Wife #3. The neighbor he had the affair with. His ex wife, wife #2 and wife #3’s ex husband consoled each other, they married and are still married today. So basically they swapped spouses. My mom said that happened on her soap opera! Haha. Stepchildren with wife #3.
Has another affair with very young woman. Wife #3 kicked him out of house.

I don’t understand a woman who cheated with a man and then believed he would be faithful to her! How is that logical?

Wife #4, woman he had an affair with, this time with a woman younger than his kids! The 911 dispatcher from police department. He plays guitar and she sings. They made music together, How sweet! Haha Isn’t that convenient? Stepchildren went to live with their father.

He’s too old to fool around now, serious health issues and has a young nurse to help him in his senior years! She got the raw end of that deal.

Don’t care about age difference either but he’s just sickening with his holier than Thou attitude.

I know people make make mistakes but he has issues.

Oh and don’t stick around to listen to him talk about religion and politics. He’s an expert on that too! Geeeez! My family is nuts!

He called you at work. He didn't force you at gunpoint to pick up the phone. So why did you?

And where, pray, could he possibly have got the impression that your inability to help him at the weekend was connected with your wife's activities? He's not in touch with her. He hasn't got the house under surveillance. Only one way he could have heard any suggestion of it - and that's from you.

Your feeling miserable and overburdened is not your dad's fault, not your brother's fault, not your wife's fault, God knows not your kids' fault. You are feeling like this partly, true, because you do have a heck of a lot on your plate; but also because you because you waste so much time on blaming others and creating nebulous, pointless, endless, defensive arguments instead of Saying NO.

And the next time your Dad says he's going to have a word with your wife, wish him luck.