I have another update on my mom

Sounds like all avenues are exhausted until there is some kind of significant change or incident. Sadly, there is bound to be one at some point. I’m sorry, because I know you just want the peace of mind to know that your mom is safe and getting the help she needs. You’re just not there yet. I guess it’s good that you know where everything stands, but I imagine that is little comfort. Maintain your boundaries. From where I sit, you’ve come a long way!

I have another update. I just got off the phone with APS. There is nothing they can do. She has her mind. She is competent. Just because she has mental illness doesn’t mean she is incompetent. I have to let it go. I said what about if she has her mind and is bedridden or wheelchair bound? Can I get her into a facility? Technically, no. If she knows the risks and dangers about what she is doing, no. But she did tell me to call them back if this happens to her.

Thank you so much for your heartfelt comments Needhelpwithmom. Yes, my mother does blame everyone else except herself. My oldest son sent my mother some business cards that he had done for his job. He sent her 8 of them because that’s how many she wanted. When I went over there to her house when I got out of work Saturday morning at 4:30 am I went to her house to help her find the deed to her house. When I talked to her on Sunday, she said she couldn’t find the business cards. Oh the EMTs must have moved them when they were here Saturday night!! It’s infuriating!!! Then she obsesses about the same thing over and over. Constantly ruminating. She has done this my whole life. If the doctor gives her new medicine, she has to read the pamphlet cover to cover and reads all the side effects and then decides not to take it, such as a cream to put on her toe.

You know what is weird too, Elaine. They think high anxiety is the normal way to feel. The same with being ‘stuck’ in depression. Yes, people have anxiety for legitimate reasons or have depression for valid reasons but when it is chronic something is off.

My husband’s grandma was like that. She drove everyone nuts! I learned to tune her out. She had to have some sort of mental illness but she refused to see a psychiatrist. She would always say that she couldn’t help how she felt.

We tried to tell her that medication may help her but she was not willing to try. So, she lived her life in complete misery and drove her husband nuts. Divorce wasn’t common then. He was devout Catholic and would not get a divorce. Sad. Her famous line was that no one understood her.

Elaine,

It would have killed you had you continued to constantly give her all of your spare time. As it is, she causes you enough grief.

I do understand because we would like nothing more than to think the absolute best of them but when parents won’t cooperate they leave us no other choice but to set boundaries.

What always killed me was they truly can’t see that they cause their own grief. They blame everyone else. They won’t accept responsibility for their stubbornness. Some elderly people can be nonconformist.

Your number one responsibility is yourself and your own family.

I keep hoping and praying that it will turn around for you. Looks like it will take a miracle for that to happen! She is frail but tough at the same time, isn’t she? I hope I never get like that. I don’t ever want to be a burden to my kids.

Needhelpwithmom thank you for your encouragement. Thank good for this forum and people like you!!! If I hadn’t found this site, I would have felt guilty and I would have ran over there every day!!! I am grateful for people on here that DO understand!!

Elaine,

Your mom is relentless. Isn’t she? It’s emotionally exhausting to deal with all of her issues.

I am glad that you aren’t running over there every five minutes. You couldn’t survive if you did that. You would have no life of your own if you continuously catered to all of her needs.

I wish that she would surrender and accept that she truly needs to be living in a facility.

My mother knows how to work the system and can be an evil genius at times. Every time someone comes to the house they are DIFFERENT PEOPLE!! When they get the call they all must say “ you go to her house, no I’m not going you go to her house!! They must toss a coin or pick straws. She would never take anti anxiety medication. She’s had high anxiety her whole life along with depression. The only thing she took for it briefly in the 1970’s for it was Librium.

"She just calls the number on her bill saying she can’t afford it and can’t pay it so they must write it off." Well, they say she's competent, and this would probably back that up - it's underhanded, but smart! Also convincing them to come over, not take her to hospital, also a sneaky way around her "predicament." So long as they don't "catch on" to this latest ploy, at least she would be able to get someone there in case there is a real emergency. Smart, sneaky, or whatever, it doesn't negate the fact that she needs help, but...

My mother had stopped driving at night, but when she felt she had a UTI, instead of going during the day she would call for ambulance, then much later call YB for a ride home. You know how it is in the ER, it takes time to get seen if you aren't bleeding all over the place or in cardiac arrest, so it would be in the wee hours!

This was before dementia. I tried to explain to her that this isn't an emergency and she's taking services away from someone who might need it. Her response? My insurance pays for it. AUGH!

Any thoughts or heard anything about perhaps getting her some anti-anxiety meds, if she would take them? If I recall correctly, there was something suggested for Afib, but she declined - if so, she may refuse any medications. If she's in a more lucid frame of mind, perhaps someone can explain that this could solve her "breathing" problem.

Thank you disgustedtoo for your thoughtful comment. I will take your advice. Thank you so much! I talked to my mother on the phone tonight and she said she called 911 AGAIN LAST NIGHT! She told them that she wasn’t going to the hospital just check her vitals. This has been 6 times this month that EMTs have come to the house. They check her vitals, tell her she if fine, and they leave. She gets a bill in the mail for $150.00 and if they take her to the hospital it costs $250.00. She just calls the number on her bill saying she can’t afford it and can’t pay it so they must write it off. She hasn’t had to pay yet! The only time she had to pay $100.00 was for the cab ride home. The hospital REFUSED to pay for her cab.

" I am having trouble breathing and the hospital doesn’t want me back because there is nothing they can do and they aren’t a babysitter."

I was wondering how long it would be before they would refuse to see her. The problem with this (NOT your problem) is what happens when she really does need help? One of our UK friends has a dad who uses the docs/ambulance service to elicit reaction/sympathy from his son, but I don't think your mother is doing this - for some reason she is having anxiety attacks and those CAN make it feel like you can't breathe! Problem though, in both cases, is if/when they refuse to see them - I understand it is using up their capabilities, for naught most of the time, but that time will eventually come! Did they even offer any anti-anxiety meds to your mom?

Instead of trying to talk with APS on the phone, can you set up an appt with them? In person might be a better way to approach this. Write down a list of all the issues (medical and physical), and if possible print copies of the mess, and anything else that applies, like her refusal to move to AL or have help come in, plus the comments from that person in the FD about the house, both times!

Provide the list, tell them every doctor and other medical provider says she is competent, yet now refuse to see her if she's having trouble breathing (anxiety or not.) Try to be calm while relating the details, if the list isn't sparking any interest. Don't be surprised if you don't even elicit a raised eyebrow, but if you can provide that list and try to remain composed while providing more details, they might not look at you as being the problem... Sometimes easier said than done, but at least try.

I haven't dealt with them, but I have read the ho-hum responses others have related. I suspect more than likely the "competent" is going to have a huge impact, and then their hands are tied too - they can go there, assess things, make suggestions, but if she says no, as she has to the SW and doc, they will tidy up the report and close it.

Be prepared for that - don't let their apathy or tied hands (they can't really do any more than the doc/ER) upset you. If you DO gain ground, great! You can rejoice. ALL of this just may have to wait for that inevitable fall or other medical crisis.

(To add a little more perspective:
The staff in mom's MC told me they can't force any residents to take meds, go to ER, get medical treatment, and these people DO have dementia! Even the EC atty told me we couldn't force mom to move, even though she had dementia! So, given they all say mom is competent, you are fighting a huge losing battle! This is all about an individual's "rights", competent or not. As with so many things in life, the pendulum swings completely one way and then the other, it can't find the middle ground. This leaves many of us between the proverbial rock and a hard place.)

Good Lord, sleeping on a folding chair in the bathroom? Call APS first thing Monday and I will pray that something will be done here Elaine. This is over the top. I agree with Plymouth though.......stand your ground and do not save her.....she MUST surrender now and wave the white flag.

Golden,

I cry too. It is part of healing. Well, a natural part of our emotions.

Elaine,

You are stronger than you think you are. All of us know that and can see it. You have dealt with so much and held up. I don’t know that I could have held it together. The hoarding would have driven me crazy. I hate clutter.

I hope that things will turn around as soon as the can. I’m so sorry that you have to put up with all that you do.

((((((elaine)))))) Wow, you are being strong That's awesome. Your mum is using the breathing card again. Mother used to take a cab to the ER and complain of this or that. Sometimes they called me as I was on her records as next of kin. I told them as far as I knew she was healthy. They tested her and found everything normal. I think it was just a bid for attention . Once she wrote both my sister and myself saying her liver was failing and she didn't have long to live. In fact there was nothing wrong with her liver. Hah! She wasn't even 100 yet, They will do anything to be the centre of your universe. You are detaching well.
A quote about detaching with love from https://www.bpdcentral.com/blog/?Detaching-With-Love-from-a-Borderline-or-Narcissist-27

"Detaching with Love" is your own version of that saying. (A crisis on your part does not necessarily mean a crisis on my part.) It does the same thing: keep your own life from becoming a series of BPD-related crises. In this case it means, "I care about you, but I recognize that you must make your own choices in life. I can love you, but I can't live your life for you. I can point you in the right direction, but I can't push you down the path."

Our love and prayers are with you.

need - I have had a flood of memories this week and some tears with them. It is all part of healing.

Golden,

I get that. I have things that I will take to my grave about my brother because he was my brother. So I totally respect your privacy.

It’s odd, isn’t it? Sometimes we are able to talk about certain things. Other times, I can’t say a thing. I am overwhelmed with memories and I am afraid to take the cork off.

That’s when I always go for a long walk or something physical. I’ve always done that. There is something to the release of endorphins. It was a Godsend for me to ride my bicycle for miles.

I was never the mom who sat on the bench at the playground with my kids. I climbed more trees, would swing next to them, went down more slides, etc.

Maybe I was still a kid at heart. Or maybe a second childhood of sorts because so much of my childhood was stolen due to my brother.

My favorite way to chill out is a nice hot bath. I’ve always found it fascinating watching documentaries about other places to live and have been so envious of people who live in areas with hot springs to relax in.

There is something about water too. I heard a psychologist say once that warm water is like a warm hug. I agree! I have always joked that in a past life I was a mermaid!

My favorite Mardi Gras costume as a kid was a Gypsy. I was a dreamer. I loved Geography in school, learning about different places and would dream of moving around like a gypsy did! Hahaha

I think all of us who were raised by perfectionist mothers have a rebellious side! Hahaha. Remember the movie, Chocolat?

Oh my gosh! I could have been the lead character in that movie. I so relate to how she lived. Who wouldn’t have fallen in love with the river rat gypsy? Johnny Depp should have had a bigger part in that movie 😊.

Enough rambling, sorry...

Your Mom is a PhD level manipulator. She is upping her game since you’ve tried to detach a little. I’m not downplaying her mental illness or how pitiful this is but she is doing it because you’ve done so well at being strong and placing some boundaries. She wants your reaction. Stay the course, Elaine. Call APS on Monday, but stay the course.

Elaine, I'm so sorry about your mom's situation. I'm sorry that there is nothing to do. (((((Hugs))))).

I have another update on my mother. I haven’t spoken to my mother since Wednesday when she was released from the hospital. My youngest son went to her house to bring her the mail and some food. She was upstairs sleeping and this was at 3:00pm. He didn’t stay long. I went to work and she called my cell phone 10 times. She left 4 minute messages on each one. Most of them were just telling me about her mail, what she ate that day, talking about her hospital visit. Then one of her voicemails said since she came home on Wednesday she hasn’t been sleeping upstairs at night. She was going upstairs during the day for a little nap. But she said at night she sleeps downstairs in the little bathroom on a folding chair. Yeah, you heard me right. A folding chair in the bathroom because there is too much junk for her to get to the couch in the living room. She made another call to me when I was on break. This time I picked up the phone. She said can you come over? I am having trouble breathing and the hospital doesn’t want me back because there is nothing they can do and they aren’t a babysitter. I told her I would come over and leave work in 10 minutes when I leave work for the end of my shift. I went over and I asked her if she wanted me to clear the junk so she could get to the couch. She said no, help me find the deed to the house to give to you. After looking on chairs with junk I couldn’t find it. I said I think you told me 10 years ago you put it in your desk. I went to the desk and found it. She was fine when I got there. She was breathing normally. I stayed with her for 2 hours and said I have to go to bed. She said ok. She was heading to the bathroom to go to sleep. This is so pitiful I am ready to puke. If it weren’t for Golden, lealonnie , worriedincali, Needhelpwithmom, Plymouth, Barbbrooklyn, and ALL of you for your support and caring, and wonderful words of advice, I would have drove my car off a cliff by now. I’m calling APS on Monday. They are closed on weekends.

Riverdale, thx I wondered if elaine knew too. The thought of living to 106 is pretty daunting.

Thank you, need and you are welcome. I didn't feel the need to apologize but to add some context. As I said, I debated with myself about including that story, I guess out of respect for the woman that my mother was. Although she had BPD, she still accomplished some good things in her life. However, as much as the BPD and the good things were part of her life, so were the bizarre things. I tend to be pretty open when sharing. I really prefer reality and the truth as far as I can recognize it, knowing others may benefit from hearing my truth and reality. That being said, there are some stories I would not share.

elaine - I don't want to hijack your thread. If your mother has BPD you have been emotionally abused since childhood and may have PTSD from those experiences. For me it has helped knowing what others go through. Please keep us updated about your mother and yourself and how you are coping. I think you are doing very well.

Golden,

Please don’t ever apologize. Your genuine input is so refreshing to me. I actually love how you don’t water things down. I relate to that. Having been through struggles too I don’t feel so alone or strange knowing that others had similar feelings to mine about family members. Your postings helped put things in perspective for me. So, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Yeah, it was pretty bad and it was obvious that she believed it, I hesitated even mentioning it here, but it was part of her reality at the time. I never knew what to say in response to these tales. Mainly I distracted with stories about her grandchildren and great grands..We try to find humor to help us through this stuff. If you don't laugh, you cry. It was sad and shocking seeing a woman who was once very capable reduced to this. God forbid that it happens to me, or if it does I hope those who care for me are gentle with me.

Had her sex glands removed.....alrighty then! 🤣 And couldn't she be taken to a more fun place than the Salvation Army after being abducted? I mean, they DO have some pretty cool clothes in their thrift store, but I'd think an abduction to Pluto would have made for a much better story.

Thx lea - It has been a lifetime of challenges. This last stage was only one of them. I did care giving till I was over 80 and that was much too long. People are living longer. Your mother sounds like a tough old bird. Lea, it's not all genes. Lifestyle has a lot to do with longevity. The people from Okinawa who have great longevity lose it when they adopt unhealthier life styles. That's why it is important to look after yourself. It gives you better QOL as you age. Your mother could last another 10 years. So plan some good stuff for you anyway. Make sure the next 10 years are good for you. You only get one shot at it. She is cared for. Don't let her complaining run your life.

elaine - I would say then that your mother has BPD. Mother only talked of suicide 2x. The first time when she has extreme sciatic pain in her mid 90s and the second time as I mentioned before - around 101 when her paranoia and delusions were well developed. The med they eventually gave her was Risperdal, an antipsychotic and it helped her a lot at the time. A little later she got an antidepressant - can't remember which one off hand. It also helped her until she was about 6 months before passing and then neither helped anymore I guess her brain was just too broken from the vascular dementia.

Treatment for BPD is not considered to be very successful but it involves antidepressants and therapy. The psych in the hospital after the aborted flight east said therapy was pointless at her age as she was too set in her ways. Some how the antidepressant got lost in the mix. In the geripsych hospital they gave her risperdal for the paranoia and delusions which came from the vascular dementia and it calmed her down very well. Then the antidepressant helped her to be more content, Before going to the geripsych hospital she had had some pretty strange delusions - people were poisoning her food to give her dementia, there was poison gas coming out of the vents in the ceiling, she had been abducted and taken to the Salvation Army and had her sex glands removed (this one to our embarrassment she told people at church) and more. Risperdal got rid of those.

Looking back, for mother the first sign of dementia was paranoia. She tended to be a bit paranoid anyway but it got worse, Because she was "weird" anyway it was harder to see the onset, but I think it started in her around age 96. The next one was mistakes with her finances. She was always very careful about her finances. But she lasted another 10 years and was only diagnosed with dementia around 101.

Has your mother ever had a neuropsych eval? It would be good for her to have one. Incidentally, even in the geripsych hospital they would not deem mother incompetent, though they gave me authority over her meds as she was refusing to take them. I gave them permission to hide the meds in her food but she spotted it every time. and wouldn't eat that item. Finally after 9 months the delusions got so bad she agreed to the meds.

Mother had a history of high blood pressure which was mostly controlled in between times but got out of hand from time to time when she was upset/angry, which was fairly often. She never actually had a stroke but must have had tiny ones which damaged the blood vessels in her brain.

I am so glad you have some supportive people around you.

Elaine,I think you may know this. Golden's mother died over a year ago at the age of 106. Just mentioning that because I am not sure if you posed a question that meant to be in the past tense. I know the thought of 106 may make a number of us shudder. I know I don't want to live to see that for myself.

Golden, I looked up the 9 symptoms of borderline personality disorder and my mother has all of them except feelings of suicide. She has never talked out loud anyway about suicide or killing herself. However, I do remember a couple times when she was 50 just saying “I wish I were dead!!!” Out of anger and frustration she said it. What do they do for it? Medication? What does your mom take? I am so glad your mom was diagnosed. Better late than never. You truly are an inspiration!!! Thank you for sharing your difficult journey with your mother.

Golden.......holy cow. That's all I can say. It's unbelievable that your mother tried to go across the country at 100........that takes the cake. I admire the heck out of you, I really do. Your mother lived to 106 and like Elaine, you did not cut off all contact with her, as you easily COULD have done. That's what scares the living crap out of me.......that my mother has another 10 years left in her!!! I sincerely hope not, because the QOL is gone for her, and it's truly getting there for me as well. If she lives another 10 years, I'll be 73 and don't plan to live that long, frankly. My birth family has terrible genes, as it turns out. The oldest lived to 60! My adopted family, on the other hand, has FANTASTIC genes! They all live to their late 90's! How's that for a slap in the face?

Anyway, I'm glad you shared this story with Elaine *and with all of us* because it's very inspirational on so many levels. Thank you.

Elaine,

You are one tough cookie. Many would have fallen apart by now. You are in my thoughts and prayers. Things will turn around and you can resume a ‘normal’ life. Really happy that you have a supportive husband and son. That helps. You have all of us too.

Stay strong and take care 💗.

Big big (((((((hugs))))))) elaine. You are so welcome. Don't give up hope. Keep doing the right things and above all look after yourself. This is a very stressful journey. I had diagnosed mother's BPD many years earlier but no professional did. She was very smart and could snow people. After her live-in nanny quit (couldn't take the nastiness any more) when mother was 96, mother was diagnosed with BPD during a hospital visit but no one seemed to pay any attention to the diagnosis. I tried to get a hold of the doctor who did the diagnosis without success.

I have been revisiting the decision I made in my 20s not to cut contact with my FOO (family of origin) and wondering if I made the right choice. Once when I was about 40 and mother had been particularly difficult/unpleasant to me I cut off contact for a year. It gave me a break for a year but really she didn't change.

I know the pull to stay in the fray and do what you reasonably can so as not to leave your mother without any family resources. My sis never helped only criticized. The decision to stay and do the necessary is not an easy one but easier for many of us than cutting contact altogether; however, it comes with a cost. I guess there is a cost no matter which decision you make. Slowly over the years I detached more and more emotionally, and visited less and less. It was what I had to do for self preservation and allowed me to stay in there as POA financial and medical to see that mother and her affairs were looked after. I am healing some now as it is almost over (estate nearly finished and I have gone no contact with sis) and looking forward to a new life, even at my age. I will pray for you.

Thank you for giving me hope golden 23, instead of despair.