I keep erasing this post before I finish it...start over...erase etc etc. I've never used a forum before, so I apologize if I'm not using the proper etiquette. I don't really know where to start, or if this is even the right place to. I don't even know if this will be read. I want to vent everything out, I want to scream to the whole world and I can't. I'm tired. I'm mad. I'm mostly mad. I'm very bitter. It's a recipe I hope will unleash some kind of fury where I go completely crazy and snap so I can collect myself and learn and move on but I don't ever snap...I think that scares me more. My 63 year old father has been living with us (my hubby, my 7 yr old son and I) for 6 months. He has a serious hoarding problem, he's had it his whole life, my mother as well, but they're divorced and hoarding separately. My mother likes to "hold on to things" in case they have a use later on. My father likes to find treasures at thrift stores and yard sales, he calls himself a "picker". But pickers usually sell their things and he just holds on to it, so that makes him a picker/collector/hoarder. Every day my father comes in with a bag or 2 of these "goodies". I've tried several things to get him to sell them, but he never bites. He gets agitated. I worry he'll get so angry with me he'll live on the streets. If you can imagine trying to find a place for 180 bags of assorted items, paintings, ornaments, wooden figurines, house hold appliances, electronics, trinkets, tea pots, Japanese pots, glassware, wooden boxes, carvings, etc etc etc etc, you can start to imagine my situation. He doesn't plan for his future. I was hoping he could stay with us while he gets back on his feet, but instead he's put his feet up and lived off us without saving a dime. Out of all the treasures he found...he hangs a 2 dollar dollarama 3d horse picture in my kitchen... He doesn't really help out financially, he's offered to buy the weekly groceries 3 times in 6 months. He does do the dishes most nights...but he never does them properly and we usually have to rewash them. I'd like to say he's trying...but that's stretching it.
Aside from his hoarding he also does not shower or bathe, he does not change his clothes and he's an alcoholic, a smoker (we quit over a year ago) and he refuses to take any kind of medication even if prescribed by his doctor. Though his drinking has dropped dramatically since he's stayed with us, I've yet to see him actually get drunk...but I have smelled alcohol on him. I grew up pretty rough with a lot of physical and mental abuse, and I have a lot of unresolved issues with both of my parents. We were actually put into foster care because of my parents hoarding and now that I have a son of my own, cleaning and planning have been a big deal for me. My son is my whole life, and I feel really stuck right now.
I'm angry that out of 6 older siblings who all have houses, high paying jobs, cars and extra rooms left me to deal with this on my own with only one income, no car in a small apartment that we just got by in the first place. I'm hurt because I'm a work from home mom so I could provide a constant stability for my son, so he could grow up in a different kind of home than I did, and my father is slowly but surely turning that home into the nightmare I escaped when I was 16.
I'm torn between wanting to take care of my dad and him being comfortable, and the realization that I can't do this and I need help. It's not fair to him or me or my family. I want him to be happy and healthy and he isn't that way here and I'm not either. I don't know what to do..I can't seem to have a heart to heart with him, he's very closed off. All I do know is that I feel like a prisoner in my little apartment watching my little home that I worked hard to create slowly become submerged in a sea of things that don't belong to me. This place feels less and less like home everyday.
Any advice out there?
Okay...here goes nothing, pressing submit...
Clear your head! Get your sanity back and live your lives again. This is a crazy, unhealty situation for your whole family. Don't worry, he will adjust and find new interests. Best of luck to you and your family.
Redhead
Get going, and FAST, on getting agencies involved to help your Dad, instead of you! Social workers can evaluate him right in your home, they can see that he is causing a serious health problem in your home, and it is UNSAFE for you to have him stay there.
He has mental/emotional/behavioral issues that have caused him to be dysfunctional all his life, it sounds like.
You cannot help him "get back on his feet"; the best you can do is get him hooked up with services and agencies that can help look after him.
Hoarding is a terrible symptom of underlying sickness.
He will need people and services to assist hiim with managing his money, because he clearly cannot.
He will need similar to find him a place to live, that is supervised, since he cannot supervise himself [his long history of habits].
He should be easily qualified for SSDI, but he needs help to apply for it properly, so that the people evaluating him for that, consider ALL his habits, deficiencies, behaviors that have put him into the conditions he is in.
CUE: it must be shown that he cannot work at any job for which he is qualified or trained to work, for enough hours to pay for his basic needs each month.
CUE: he needs medical and psych records [hopefully has at least some of these existing?] that support the claims that he is unable to support himself.
CUE: "support himself" includes being able to sustain a roof over his head, keep adequate nutrition/food he can eat daily, pay his basic needs bills for services he needs; work enough to earn enough to pay for his basic needs, AND it means if he is able to take care of his own personal business of paying for his needs out of money he earns---he has shown he cannot reliably make payments even when he has money, and, has shown he cannot keep his home healthy, and has shown...well,
The TRICK OF IT is getting him to cooperate with getting the Psych eveluations, the Doctor evaluations, to support why he needs Disability.
IF he is a Veteran, AND was in military during a wartime, and was some kind of injurred, even if it was PTSD and or a hearing loss, he can apply to the V.A. for help--both for medical and to get further medical and psych evaluations and help.
IF the V.A. determines that he was injurred due to his wartime / miltary service, he might be able to get some bit [sliding scale] of V.A. disability stipend.
BUT....
SOMEONE needs to manage his money, or he will be homeless again.
A Power of Attorney is a place to start--it is possible that you might find a POA form online. We had our Elder hand-write one, copying down what I wrote from a piece of paper, since they had no idea what to write--but coudl read what I wrote, and include all or part of what was in that list, on the paper they hand-wrote. Then make sure it is dated, and specifies if it is in perpetuity, or of limited time--if he limits the time it is good for, that expire date must also be on there.
THAT kind must be in his writing, and NOT notarized.
Just keep it on file.
IT can stipulate whoever he wants to be his POA, and can list what his wishes are for that person managing his money, his bills, housing, medical, legal, etc.
Hospitals also have packets containing "ADVANCE DIRECTIVES" so a person can say, legally, if they want to be resusitated or on life support, etc.
Good to have those on file, in a safe place.
ONCE YOU GET HIM OUT
there are ways to cledan up the mess left behind--we had to use non-toxic things to clean things up, otehrwise we'd have had to move out, too.
I used non-toxic, biodegradable things that critters do not like [mice, bugs], such as Bon Ami, Washing Soda, CitriSolv, Nature's Miracle liquids [from pet stores], and Cedarcidal "Best Yet",
to clean carpets and surfaces, to get rid of mold, bugs, filth.
Still dealing with it over 9 months later, but the stench is far less now than then.
PLEASE do NOT feel guilty about "failing".
Your sibs managed to stay away from his messes by not inviting him to their places. They saw it coming. They might not be too helpful for getting him help outside your home, either.
GUESSING--you the oldest child?
--this parent leaned on you to take him in?
--guessing he has always been able to twist your sensibilities into mush, for years previoiusly?
--guessing he has about done that again, to the point you might feel it will be difficult to find enough pieces to reconstruct your sensible self?
{{{sigh!}}}
Just get agencies and organizations to get him out of your home.
IS there any way you can get him to go away for a day or few?
COULD you get help to cart his junk out of the house, MAYbe to a tarped shelter somewhere [yard?]? WHile he is away.
When he gets back, the place has been cleared out--PARTICULARLY anything that has started clogging up otehr areas besides his room!]....neat and tidy.
When he gets home and wonders where his junk went, you have options
---Dad, the health department was gonna condemn the place, we HAD to get it moved out [you could honestly pull that one with him right there]
---Dad, we've been robbed! [OK, so that is underhanded, and needs help from police department...which you could get--like, file a police report or something, or call 911 and request a welfare check on your household due to an unhealthy individual who has overtaken your house with hoarding junk, and the family needs help.
Something like that.
I hope you find help and fast!
Good luck with your father and, as so many have said, you have done your duty and it's time to move forward.
There are others who are done by lawyers or their offices, but those probly take a bigger cut of the funds.
Social Workers or Area Agency on Aging should be able to point you to reputable offices or people who do those things.
There was abuse from both my parents. My father neglected us, we didn't often see him. He worked all the time and when he wasn't working he was at the bar. But he wasn't my mother. Things didn't bother him, he didn't yell or hit, he didn't care. Not caring was better than being degraded and beat every day. Going to my dads was like getting a break from my mothers abuse, and hers was far worse. We lived with my mother, and she manipulated us on a daily basis, she was a very cruel person, very hateful, very sneaky. I am the youngest of 6 kids. I grew up with 2 of my siblings, the others moved out before I was born. My mother used the foster care we were put in against us later on, she blamed the messes on us, and when we were not listening or she thought we were misbehaving she would pretend to call child services and have a fake conversation with them to have them come and take us away. She would hit us and scream in our faces that we were worthless among some other horribly vulgar words I'll spare you. I saw the look on my siblings faces when she hurled those hateful words at them. I saw them believe it too, and I hated her for it. I grew up the peace keeper in a house full of manipulation and violence. I went through the therapy and invited the family counseling and I was cheated. After all was said and done, and the sessions were over I thought I had done some good. My mother looked me right in the eyes and told me she never changed for anyone in her life and she wasn't going to start with me. My family always said I was too sensitive but it was that sensitivity that made me know I was nothing like them. I couldn't understand how they couldn't care and I hated caring as much as I did. As a kid I never noticed my dad drinking more than he should, because I didn't know how much that should be. He wasn't violent when he drank, and when he hoarded he would bring stuff for me. He considered I might like something for no reason. My mother was just lazy and never cleaned. So I related better with him. the lesser of two evils. So maybe I felt like I should be there for him in his chaos when he was there in mine. My wishful thinking made me believe I could control his hoarding and encourage him to use it for good while he figured his life out and got on his feet. But when I realized that it is really nothing like that, and it could turn very ugly, it hit me like a ton of bricks.
Which left me coming here.
My home is not turned upside down just yet, shockingly enough. I have managed to keep up with most of it, but I'm running out of space and it's feeling crowded. As it sank in that he was never going to sell any of this willingly and he would only keep bringing stuff in every single day; I saw the beginnings of my childhood home developing again. I will never let it get that bad, even if that means him leaving. My son and my husband will always come first and I will never put my son at risk of being taken away, ever. That's why I am angry at my father though. They saw us being dragged out of that house kicking and screaming. We had no idea what was going on, or why we had to go. We didn't know a clean house was even normal. The thought of him knowingly making that environment in my home with my son is what makes me angry. I'm not sure I'll ever really understand that it's not just a choice he's making consciously. I'll read into hoarding and get a better understanding. That should help.
My main concern is now getting him out. It didn't take a day to get him here and it wont take a day for him to go, but the process needs to start NOW. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I'll keep posting and let you know how things move along.
Oh, and I have to mention the serenity prayer is something I lived by! I lack the wisdom of knowing the difference at times because I try to always think of something I could do but I think I've exhausted that here and it's safe to say I can accept that this will not change this way.
Thank you for the well wishes. *hugs* to you all for the support
You have been given lots of tools and wonderful words of wisdom by many of the posters. Chimonger, and others, have given numerous good ideas and excellent advice as services available to you. I hope you take advantage of their support; you will need it in the weeks and months ahead. Remember, you can’t do this alone, there is still too much childhood baggage, hurt, sentiment, anger and yes, even love, for you to do this without the muscles and shoulders of the professionals. There is a tremendous difference between knowing, reading and understanding the problem vs having the ability to step away because you are a participant in the quagmire. Do the research and I hope it will help you stand back and realize YOU are not the reason for your father’s illness. It is a psychological, chemical and emotional problem that, sadly, plagued him all his life. I am sure he migrated to you because of your gentle nature………..and he knew enough in his illness to use that to his advantage. He continues to do it. Like you said, “the lesser of two evils”, but still and evil force all the same. Yes, I think way down deep he hurts, but he needs others that will stand tough to give the necessary help if there is any chance for him to recover. But, don’t hold your breath at his age. Miracles do happen and we need to hold onto those, even if only for our sanity.
As to mom~~RUN, RUN, RUN, RUN, RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like you have any other plans with her, I am sure lunch this week isn’t on your calendar or anyone else’s for that matter. OMG!!!!, that is one mean, nasty woman and sounds like she also has MAJOR, MAJOR issues. In reality, she may never mellow or become anything other than she is. Talk about one unhappy person. Not sure there are enough drugs to happy her up. She’s just plan mad at the world, everyone that resides on the planet, probably the universe to boot and God on top of it. Phew! I would give her, a minimum, of half a continent of separation space. At least, with her, you know, the pain is upfront and easy to RUN from, but your dad’s is more subtle and long term damaging, just the same. He keeps playing the suck you back in card, and he has it down to an art form. It is easy to understand how your nature wants to help and not hurt him. Especially since he is so proficient at “sounding” pathetic and “genuine” in wanting help. That is part of the unhealthiness of his power over you. I am certain your mother did a job on him as well. She would send me to the bars too and anyone in that unhealthy environment with a kind bone in there body would certainly be the person I would migrate to when I had the courage to show up.
Okay, before I carry on and on again. All I truly wanted to tell you was how proud of you we all are for deciding to save your beautiful family and take the steps to move back toward sanity. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don’t drag your heels and take too long in making this come to fruition. You impress me as the type of person who the more you read and try to understand the softer your heart will become and you will still feel you can do something to help your father. Believe me, you can’t!!! Honestly, you need to distance yourself and get out from under his antics NOW! The longer you wait, the more he will continue to ding away at you and shrewdly play on your kindness and emotions.
Starting TODAY, set a schedule and make three phone calls a day for the next two weeks until you have him on his way out the door. You HAVE to get this process in motion. You made a couple of statements that give me concern alluding to the fact your home is “not turned upside down just yet.” DON’T WAIT UNTIL IT IS!! Then it will be too late. The longer you wait and try to figure out why he is who he is, you are continuing to slide into the abyss, relinquishing control to him bit by bit, so subtly not realizing it is still happening.
Keep us posted, we are all rooting for you and when he is finally out, I am sure you will hear a resounding CHEER!! As well as, collective sigh of relief from us too.
Hugs and love
Getting an adult assessed for various behavioral and psych issues is tough, the older they get, the harder it is to get them to agree to get evaluated.
My Mom has had "bipolar" and "split personalities [D.I.D.]" since she was a kid, plus she took up drinking as an adult. But she always avoided Docs like the plague...she only got any kind of mental help when she did a suicide attempt shortly before my sister got married [[she was terribly distressed at "losing" another child to marriage, and was having a difficult relationship mess with a boyfriend]] But we were not privvy to the results, and she was not kept there long enough to properly evaluate. She was terrified of side effects of the usually prescribed lithium.
As she aged, everything has gotten worse.
A good part of making mental health issues worse, is alcohol, because an aging body cannot process it as a younger body does, and it can be very difficult.
IF you can convince your Dad to get that kind of evaluations, DO it!
ADHD is part of the Autistic Spectrum Disorders [ASD].
There is a real easy online, instant results "survey" test for ASD:
http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/AutismSpectrumQuotient/AutismSpectrumQuotient.aspx
That you can see if he would take, as a starting point--you can print the results and take them to the Doc with him [with you along!]
ALSO, since he seems to have Impulse Control issues happening, he MIGHT be seen as having some level of Bipolar..
Those need evaluated by psychiatry, at this point in time [because they categorize those as part of the psych realm]
ALL of those things can be made better or worse by food/nutritional choices, some can be pretty simple--but a Doc needs to be trained in that approach to use it.
It sounds like your Mom may have had elements of those things going on, too.
Those conditions can make for very coniving, abusive behaviors!
USUALLY, there has been abuse in their childhood, too, so they learned to be how they are as a coping mechanism--and yes, I am also referring to the mentioned ills--those can mainifest better or worse, depending on a child's environ and nurturing [or lack of].
USUALLY, it is a mixture of things, not just one.
And thankfully, there are various meds to help with most.
ASD, though, needs behavioral change help, and that is best started in childhood, not as an Elder!
I have an old friend who only got diagnosed with it in his mid to late 50's, and it has helped him, knowing he is not being a jerk, he's just "wired differently"
He has always been different, and struggled to make his way through life, but met, married, had kids, and generally had a good life. But many others have not done so well. Everything is always complicated by alcohol.
Not trying to make excuses for dysfunction, but knowing what it really is, and getting proper help for it, can often work wonders.
Only wish my Mom would have been open to gettin ghelp--it could have made a profound better difference, depending on when she got help.
But she's 83 now, not likely to change anything, and keeps drinking.
Her fear of lithium is valid, but she refuses to listen to information about mild anti-seizure meds that are also commonly used for Bipolar, that do NOT have the bad side effects, yet drastically decrease the impulsivity and/or nood swings that make life so difficult.
BTW---You and your siblings learned to cope in very skewed conditions.
You all had to learn ways to cope with very bad situations, and those "coping mechanisms" had to be flawed, in order to fit into your situation at home with your folks.
Bluntly, you were PROGRAMMED to "not see" what is wrong, nor how to actualy fix it. Even as an experienced adult, who has mostly turned your life around to be more "normal", you still got hooked back into that behavior.
That kind of early programming made you very vulnerable to others doing same to you later in life, and/or, doing it worse, and/or them returning to your life and doing it to you again--even after you may have had many instances of it in the past, walked from those thinking "nope, I will never allow that to happen again!", then bam! it happens again.
That kind of early programming, means you too often do not see the freight train barreling down the tracks at you, until it hits.
You are easily hooked back into their requests, maneuvers and manipulations.
You say your Dad never was abusive, but yes he was, from your description--you were just programmed to "not see it".
There are various methods to help get really "quit" of those vulnerabilities, and to get you back on track with more normal.
EFT: this involves tapping certain places on your body, while making certain statements, to help break old patterns and learn new ones. This can be learned and done at home, either from a Counselor or from online sources like: http://www.thetappingsolution.com/TappingSolutionEbook.pdf
EMDR: this involves watching blinky lights or hearing sounds, while processing memories and learning how to leave them in the past, while learning better ways to cope. Find this one being done by trained, qualified Counselors who take special courses for this. It is also really good to help PTSD.
Both methods are easy, and have been VERY successful at helping people with these kinds of histories. Insurance sometimes covers use of it---there is a V.A. Clinic near us that has a counselor trained to use it; and the Group Health Plan in our region, covers using EMDR--though here, they farm it to outside provider, as their in-house providers do not do it.
Hope this helps!
{{{hugs}}} IT takes loads of intestinal fortitude to do what you need to do. PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE do it before it makes you too sick to function!
I waited far too long to get my Mom out of here, and it is gonna be awhile to recover from all that, esp. while dealing with a sick spouse, and the bits of work to do that I still can.
Your gentle and forgiving nature cannot fix your parents.
You can only fix you, and as you do that, others around you MUST also change, because when you change, they can no longer be their old self unless they leave!
ManyBlessings--you sure nailed the descriptions! And good suggestions to make a schedule for making calls--just like doing any other job, MAKE time to do the tasks, and keep plugging away at it!
Once you let that man start piling stuff out of his room down the hallway, into other rooms, it is too late! If no one can get into his room to really clean, it's gone too far! IF windows or curtains get messed/broken, because none can get to them to repair or clean, it has gone too far. If you have bugs or rodents taking up residence, due to that hoarding, it has gone too far.
YES! Keep up the good work, and keep us posted!
We are cheering for you, Sleey!
If you can get him to accept appropriate evaluations and help, awesome!
If you can come to view him as a flawed human being with probles of his own that he didn't sign up for, great!
But evaluations/treatment for him and counseling for you can come AFTER HE IS OUT OF YOUR HOUSE! :) Unless some counselling will help you with the task of moving him out, then, by all means get that now.
Keep in touch,
Jeanne
ManyBlessings, you're absolutely right. I will make those calls EVERY DAY! I already started by researching his options and listing the places to call thanks to everyone's great advice here, and I'm ready to get my life back! For the first time in a long time things are looking up and all of you are a big part of that. So thank you, it means a lot more than you know.
But their automatic assumption is that the Elder is being abused.
The burden of proof is then on the caregiver to prove anything else.
Therefore, it is important that you have at least some calls or contacts with other agencies, documented with dates, subject, who you talked with, their phone number, and some conversation written or recorded for those contacts.
Calls to 911 system automatically require a police report,
while simply calling the police department because you think it is "non-emergency", gets NO report, unless you make a point of filing one.
Social Workers called to the house to evaluate, also create a document trail--ask them to help you!
With a history of calls that let other agencies know that your Elder has been endangering you and your family with his habits and behaviors, it helps protect you from unwarranted accusations.
Those reports help clarify the situation earlier on.
Your parents continue to be abusive and they WILL NOT stop! It is NOT your duty to care for sick people when they don't acknowledge that they are sick. Honor them/him by letting go. Listen to God who is sending you wise counsel. Trust Him, Let Go and Let God.
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, lean not unto your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path." Proverbs 3:5-6
GUARANTEE!!!!
that when you tell your Dad the House Rules,
which limit his hoarding,
and require things he has been avoiding, that he will get ANGRY.
He will do one of 2 things with that anger:
either he will use that energy to find another place to live where he can do as he pleases, aided and abetted by otehr sick people,
OR, he will get really nasty towards you for further lmiting his choices [reducing his autonomy more].
Oh--a 3rd choice would be, that he might actually agree to the house rules.
But that would be very rare.
Suggestions:
Make sure to have viable Assisted Living information ready to hand him?
Or be ready to call Social Services to request they take him in for observation, for assessment as to whether he can care for himself, and help find him appropriate elsewhere to live.
His Habits have caused health hazards in your home.
It's your home.
He has not been contributing to pay bills??
That is part of the discussion, too. He has clearly shown he is irresponsible with money. He needs a caretaker to take care of that for him.
That could be you, or someone else.
No matter who it is, that poerson does not have to live with him to do that.
Please get help from Social Services, or your local Area Agency on Aging.
Start asking at the Welfare dept. for information.
I'm sorry, I'm just a mess right now.
Sending Hugs, Cattails
This only shows how much YOU along with him need help. YOU are not strong enough to do this! You have proven that over and over and over again. Until YOU take the steps and get the help YOU need, your life is only going to continue spiraling down hill. If you don't want to lose your precious family that you worked so many years to have, then I suggest YOU get off dead center and do what you know HAS to be done. STOP procrastinating and coming up with lame excuses!
I am sorry to take such a strong voice with you. Please know I ONLY do it out of deep concern for you and your family. It breaks my heart to see you going deeper and deeper into the daddy abyss. I am going to say some things I feel you need to think about, not because I am heartless, but because I TRULY care. I so want you to have your happy life back, the one you worked so hard to build and deserve after your terrible childhood.
You need to find strength right now and it most definitely is time YOU STOP playing daddy’s games!!! You are doing EXACTLY the same thing to your family, your father did to you and STILL IS, only he is doing it with his hoarding and running from life and you are doing it with feeling sorry for him. It was evident to you years ago you needed to get away from him and out from under his roof to stand back, look at the situation objectively and do what had to be done to save yourself. Now that you have let him under your roof, you can't leave, he certainly isn’t going to leave because he is in control and doing exactly what HE wants and you are going to have to evict him, which you don't appear to have the strength to do, the desire maybe, but not the strength or determination to do what needs to be done.
Repeatedly, you keep coming up with these “plans” to get him back on his feet and out of your home. IT AIN’T NEVER GONNA HAPPEN THAT WAY!!! How many times are you going to do this before you admit YOU are NEVER going to make it work!! I think these plans are your way of not facing the situation in a head on, truthful manner. You think as long as you continue to make these plans, you are being constructive. Guess what! You aren’t accomplishing a darn thing except prolonging the problem and then you wring your hands in the air and can’t figure out why they don’t work. He’s NOT leaving because HE still has control over YOU! He’s happy as a lark and why shouldn’t he be? Roof over his head, food in his belly, using all his money to buy his crap to fill YOUR house, telling YOU how and what HE is going to do, telling YOUR son what he can and can’t do and all the while, YOU don’t have the fortitude to stand up against him, put your foot down and say, “You are destroying my life NOW GO!!! You are his little pawn in this sick game you two play together and have since you were little. You just keep doing it over and over and over as things get worse and worse and worse while you keep making plans, feeling sorry for yourself, making plans and feeling sorry for yourself. All the while, daddy is doing exactly what he wants to do, ignoring you, your husband and, in reality, abusing your son too because your father’s antics are most assuredly destroying the life this little boy deserves.
What do you think you are teaching your son with all this drama in your home? Deep in your heart, do you honestly think this is healthy for him and it isn’t affecting him? Don’t you think this precious little child deserves better? Aren’t you willing to stand up for his future and life? Is daddy more important than your own son? Sorry, but right now, daddy is winning, BIG TIME, he even has enough control that he is telling YOUR son what he can and can’t touch in YOUR home. If he or ANYONE were treating my child like that, I would mad as L and tell them in NO uncertain terms, “Enough is enough, screw this carp old man, you are out of here, TODAY!! MY SON means EVERYTHING and the world to me and as a mother, DON’T YOU EVER, EVER, EVER mess with my baby!!! I will tear you from limb to limb if you do ONE thing to harm my child!” I guarantee you, your father IS harming your child! Only if by seeing what it is doing to his mother. Do you want to teach your son it is okay for someone to walk all over you and you will rollover and let them do that, or do you want to train your child to be strong and stand up for his family? Your father let your mother walk all over him and, in turn, allowed her to abuse you because he had no backbone to stand up to her and come to your defense. He ran away and buried his life in a bottle; you are burying yours in “plans for dad”. Are you going to be strong, or, like your father did to you, allow your child to be abused? Do you want your child to feel the pain you did as a child and what it continues to do to you today? Or, do you want him to have happy, healthy memories and a beautiful future?
You and your father established a sick, vicious pattern in childhood. It isn’t going to change and the sooner you realize that and come to grips with it, the sooner your husband and son will count in your life again. Right now, when you are honest with yourself, you will realize they truly don’t count; it is daddy running the show AGAIN. Daddy has control of you and your family. He continues pulling the stings and you continue being his puppet, AGAIN!!
You need to ask yourself, how much you REALLY, TRULY love and care about your husband and son, and, more importantly, yourself? Are they, and you, worth fighting for and doing what HAS to be done, or are you only mouthing the words and dear old dad is actually the one who has your heart and soul? If your loyalties are to your father, then be honest with yourself, admit it and go ahead continuing to “try” to “help” him. It’s okay if that is how you feel and inside you feel you owe him what you are doing for him and no matter what you have to do or give up, seeing him happy and on his feet is worth every ounce of effort. That’s fine! You may actually get there ~~~~ someday. He can’t live forever and maybe your husband and son won’t mind waiting to get their wife and mother back. However, at the very least, be honest with yourself and your husband and son, you all deserve the truth. It isn’t fair to continually drag them through daddy’s trash, literally and figuratively. They deserve a choice in what they want in their live too. The sad thing is, just like you, your son has no choice, he is at the mercy of his parents. Remember those days? Seems to me, you are putting your husband and son aside wile all your TRYING to come up with plans to fix your dad and get his crap out, yet, all this time, you aren’t doing squat to actually get him fixed or out, except making plans over and over. It’s time to fess up and admit what you want to do here and choose what is most important in your life.
It is evident YOU aren't doing what YOU SHOULD to protect your family. You are protecting daddy and not standing up for your husband and son. YOU are letting daddy destroy their lives too. YOU need to make a choice here, NO more excuses, NO more, "I don't know what is wrong with me, I can't do this", NO MORE DEFENDING DADDY AND wimping out on your son and husband. It is WAY past time you pulled up your big girl panties, talk to the proper professionals we have all told you are out there willing and able to give you the assistance you so desperately need to make this happen and STOP MAKING EXCUSES!!! You need an intervention for both YOU and your father.
He has an illness and needs professional help, and so do you!! You are two people feeding off one another and it isn’t healthy for either of you. If you do love your father, then love him enough to get him the help he needs. If you do love your family, then love them enough get the help YOU need. STOP feeling sorry for both of you!!!
Like I said, I don't mean to sound cruel or heartless, I DO understand how extremely difficult these decisions and actions are when you are caught in the middle. That is why it is imperative you MAKE THOSE CALLS!!! If you can't bring yourself to do it, then ask your husband for his help. Have him take the difficult steps you seem unable to take for them. I can’t imagine he wouldn’t be happy to give you his support! Once you have the first meetings and conversations with the proper support people, I think you will find they will help you find the strength and understanding you need. You must distance yourself from all of this, even moving to a friends or an apartment for a while and let your husband and the professionals be the strength you don't have.
Your husband sounds like a kind, gentle, wonderful and understanding man and, if he is the person who you say supports you and your decisions in this matter, I am sure he will be more than happy to help you if you just ask. Without a doubt, it seems he only wants what is best for you and his family. He may be thinking he doesn't want to intrude and as you said, is letting you handle it in whatever way you feel most comfortable. Well, you are NOT comfortable, you are NOT handling it, you are so messed up in the middle of this mess you can't see the forest through the trees and HAVE to get professionals in there or Daddy will continue to be in charge and continue to fill your house with his crap ~~~ both mental and physical.
It is up to YOU! Again I ask, how truly important are you son and husband to you? I can’t emphasize that enough. Are they worth fighting for and giving them the life they so richly deserve, or is your dad the one you actually chose over them? That is what it boils down to, either your family or your father. It is YOUR choice. Right now, you are incapable of having them both, maybe someday in the distant future, but not now. We can offer you all the support and suggestions in the world, but only YOU can make the decisions to take them, implement them, follow them and, ultimately, which path you want to walk in this life. I’m sorry, but you WILL have to chose, what's it going to be your son and husband or you father who destroyed your early life, is destroying it again and will you allow him to destroy the rest of it too?
The longer you wait the worse it is going to get. It has been a month now since your first post asking for help. People have given you a multitude of wonderful suggestions. Had you taken them, by now, you would have had this situation well on its way and there would have been sunshine beginning to stream back into your home and life, you wouldn’t still be finding toys under more and more garbage and continuing to make excuses and plans to “help” daddy get on his feet. HOGWASH, he is NEVER, EVER going to do that without tough love, and that is what you need as well. The sooner you actually realize that, the sooner you will turn your life around,~~ and his.
I know how strong a parents influence is in a child’s life, even the crappiest parents in the world, for some reason, manage to have an unbelievable hold on their children. It is hard to break that unhealthy bond sometimes, but for the future happiness and a healthy lifestyle, it must be broken. You have done it with your mother because her abuse was easily recognized, but your father’s abuse is, in all honesty, a lot worse because of the subtle, undermining control and unhappiness he is still inflicting.
Once YOU take a stand for your family and make him leave, then HE has a choice for HIS life and HE can no longer make excuses either. He has wallowed on the pity pot for all his life because everyone has enabled him to do just that and he needs to pull up his big boy panties too and quit ruining the lives of every one around him. STOP ENABLING HIM!!!!! YOU are doing him NO favors! If he ends up on the street or living in a shelter, so be it, then that is HIS choice. The professionals will give him the tools and help he needs to get his life together, it is then up to HIM to utilize them. The sooner he realizes HE, and only HE, is responsible for his OWN life, then that is when he will have to grow up too. I am 63 and I still learn, grow, and change every day in order to become a better wife, mother, grandmother and person. I am not too old to change and neither is your father. He may need more tools, possibly medications and education on how to use them, but he certainly isn’t too old. HE has the choice, just like every other person on this planet. If HE doesn’t want to change, implement what the professionals offer, then YOU can’t feel responsible for HIM. You can only be responsible for YOUR choices.
Yes, you are both lugging around crap from the past, but realize that was yesterday, this is today!! You can either let it bury you or grow from it! Are you going to continue carrying that heavy bag of bricks on your backs, allowing the weight to break you down and using it as an excuse for all your troubles? Or, are you going to stop crying about how heavy the load and, instead, take out the bricks and use them to build a beautiful new home for yourself and family?
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Sleepy, listen to all the people on here who only have your wellbeing and best wishes for a beautiful life and future in their hearts. We only want the very best for you. And even though my words here may sound hard, my heart is filled with love and my greatest desire is for you and your family to have a beautiful, happy, loving life together!! You deserve NOTHING less!!!
Keep us posted and DON’T give up!! Keep on keeping on and make tomorrow morning a new dawn! Start taking the bricks out of that bag and make just one phone call or have a heart to heart with your husband and tell him how much you love him and need him to be strong for you right now and make the calls and decisions you can’t.
Hugs filled with love, hope and many blessings!!
Maybe counselling will help you get unstuck and moving in the right direction.
Personally, I don't think you are focussing on the right problem. This really and truly is not about you figuring out how to tell your dad he is a slob, or that he is not taking responsibility for his own financial well-being. Even if you could bring yourself to say those things, so what? Nothing will change. You may feel better for getting it off your chest. Or you may feel worse for hurting your dad's feelings. But fundamentally, nothing is going to change. Why waste your energy and beat yourself up over not being able to do something that won't make any difference anyway?
Here are two basic truths:
1. You do not want your family home to be a warehouse for used goods.
2. You are not responsible for getting your father on his feet financially.
Do you agree? Are these the rock-bottom truths we are dealing with here?
Deal with these biggies. Don't waste energy on the trivial details, like whether he takes good care of the items he says are valuable or whether he has any use for another potato masher. For one thing, wasting time discussing the details gives the impression that this is negotiable. That if he just changes some minor behavior things can keep on as they are. No! Go back and look at the two basic truths.
You and hubby and Dad need a serious discussion, and not about whether the valuable action figure got covered with jelly. This is not a tirade you let loose on him in anger. Do not wait for a triggering incident. This is not about individual details and one detail more or less won't make a difference. Here is the message that you and hubby need to convey, calmly and firmly:
"Dad I really hoped that having you here would give you a chance to get back on your feet, and for us to build better bonds as a family. I am sorry to conclude that this is just not working out. I know that your treasures are important to you, but we are not willing to turn our home into a second-hand warehouse. So it is necessary for you to find another place to live. We'll help you with that task if you want our help."
Stick with that message. Do not get sidetracked about minor issues. Even if he took excellent care of his best pieces, you still do not want to live in a warehouse of his things. Even if he sells something now and then, you still do not want to live in a warehouse of this things. Your home is not a junk yard or a used goods store. He is welcome to have a junk yard or used goods store or a hoarder's paradise. It just cannot be your home.
Whether he takes good care of his treasures, whether he sells them, whether he has a plan for supporting himself someday ... it does not matter and it doesn't change the rock-bottom truth: Your house is your HOME. It is not a warehouse.
You can do this. You need to do this. If the support on this board is not quite enough to help you through this, get some counselling.
Best wishes to you.
With all that said, I am pleased to say that I stepped outside of my worrying and today started the conversation about him living elsewhere. My husband was on the phone in another room, he had also put off speaking with my father the night before and I suddenly had a burst of courage in thinking of getting our home back so I took advantage of it. I kissed him on the cheek, said “wish me luck here I go” and as I was cleaning up I told him that he has a lot of stuff and that my dining room was not a storage room. I explained that he would be more comfortable having his own space for his things since we didn't have the room here, and would be unable to get a bigger space any time soon. I told him I'm sure his arm which had been bothering him on a daily basis because of my uncomfortable sofa must not be very nice and that he would benefit from having his own bed in his own space. He was quiet for a moment and I asked him what he thought. He asked where he would go and I said he could afford a bachelor or small 1 bedroom and I would help him sort that out if he needed it. He starred back at the television and I didn't press the issue. I just continued to tidy around the house and came back a short moment later to make sure I got a response. I said “Is this a doable thing for you?” I knew that if he said no, I could talk him out of it because of the money he has coming, and if he made it an issue I would accept that it's manipulation and legally remove him if need be. I figured he would just go with yes, and he DID! My husband was not in the room at the time, and I told him not to mention he knew, as I could mention it again in a couple days when my fathers money came in. That way it would solidify that decision all the more if he knows my husband is aware of the decision and we can start the plans to get him somewhere else.
I understand that I can't fix my parents. It has to be a choice they make, they have lived this way their whole lives. I learned that a very hard way a long time ago. I was hoping I would have the respect in my home as I had to live by their rules growing up, but I guess it doesn't work that way. I don't have to stress out over telling him anymore and that feels so amazingly wonderful. That was my brick wall. I'll let him know about services he can benefit from after he is on his own, whether he uses them will be his choice, and I can walk away knowing I did what I could with no regrets.
I'll keep you posted on the progress of the move out! Thanks again for the hugs, comments, advice and well wishes, my thoughts are with all of you as well.
Do keep us posted.
First, I want to say CONGRATULATIONS!!!! You are taking wonderful steps in making this happen and getting your home back!! I am sooo proud of you!!!! GOOD GOING!!! Your plan this time has substance and, more importantly, motion. FANTASTIC!!!
Secondly, I need to apologize for not realizing you do not live in the United States and are dealing with an entirely different set of regulations. Red tape and paperwork is always a quagmire, even under the best of circumstances. I hope you are making further headway getting it all in order. Hard enough dealing with your father and then compound the governmental hoo-ha and ones mind and spirit can take a beating.
I am so happy you spoke with your father and especially encouraged to hear he, for the time being, is not fighting you and, so far, in agreement with the plan. Have you started previewing available housing for him? That way, you can eliminate later “together” legwork, by having pre-screened, suitable, apartments lined up to show him. It might reduce excuses and a possible balk.
Your husband is a keeper!!! But, you already know that. His support and assistance are a Godsend and it has to be bringing you closer working on this as a team.
No doubt, it is extremely difficult to take a stand such as this and you are correct, not as easy as telling a roommate they need to leave because the situation just isn’t working, but it is every bit as crucial, even more so, reclaiming your space, home and life from a parent.
You have made a positive turn on this journey of twisting and winding roads. There will be many more forks bringing this to fruition and reclaiming your home. But, it must be so nice getting off the gravel road and onto smoother pavement. Pretty soon you will be driving along a beautiful highway! Just keep yourself headed in the right direction and don’t allow your father to drag you off on his side streets any more, they are not pretty places to visit and only delay your journey.
STAND STRONG!!!! You are an amazing woman, wife and mother!!! It makes my heart sing knowing you are tearing down that brick wall and using the bricks to rebuild your fabulous new home and life. Use your strongest mortar so he can’t blow it down again!
Thank you for the heartwarming update, keep them coming!! We are here for you, understand each bump in your road, and relish in its smoothness and your progress.
A million hugs, tour de force congratulations and prayers for a happy, healthy and magnificent life to come!!