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Countrymouse, your kind of reverent irreverence is refreshing! I totally agree, Joseph was being a pain in the butt, though the brothers going as far as either killing or enslaving him was above board...but the glory is in the end, he learned some humility, and family bonds triumphed over the past wrongdoings. It's a shame too many of *our* families fall apart and members fail each other over much lesser wrongs...

We miss so much if we insist on reading everything as piously and literally as if these were not real people with real lives full of poetry, drama, and royal soap opera as anyone else in any other age. Good St. Paul once literally bored someone to death with a sermon or lecture he was giving, though he raised him up too, and I watch my cousin the pastor struggle with the same old church discipline issues he had as a pastor himself! Abraham would be turned in to Child Protective Services today for that near sacrifice episode...my theory is that back in the day the pagans did that sort of thing all the time and someone challenged his piety, but somehow he knew and did not know at the same time that God would intervene. Pharaoh - well, he might have relented - not for any reason of his own goodness, but maybe just out of sheer laziness of heart or sentimentality - and then just dug the hole deeper to keep Israel enslaved in Egypt.

And if you don't laugh a little about the story of Jesus staying in the Temple instead of heading out with his family, and scaring His poor mom to death, getting chewed out however gently (loose translation of His reply: But Mom! I thought y'all knew where I was! Really!!), and being obedient again ever after you just aren't trying to imagine the real event. And Emmaus... now that was a divine prank if there ever was one. Yep, I would say our Book is the real deal, and the more we read with open hearts and minds, the more we understand. Corrie Ten Boom was said to have commented about her reading some Scipture that she wondered that the ink was dry, and I totally get why!
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Rainmom, did you ever actually receive any help with your crisis of faith?
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Vstephans, about Corrie Ten Boon, in addition to the word of God being relevant to our lives today-thus the ink was not yet dry-maybe the ink was also wet from her
silent tears.
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Corrie Ten Boom
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I do like when James says to count it all joy when we're tested (James 1:2). Very uplifting verse that makes going through adversity easier. It is really true, because if we never see adversity, we never mature and gain wisdom about things of the world.

I do have problems applying the count it all joy principal when I hear my mother say "Wha?" to everything I say and have to scrub the toilet again. But really, if I hadn't been going through this, I wouldn't understand that old age is anything more than AARP and Jitterbug.

Just had a thought. I want to be buried with my mobile device -- whatever that will be at the time. That way if I wake up I can call 911. I am thinking about the old "saved by the bell" custom to keep people from being buried alive.
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Sorry, no cellphones aloud. It upsets later mourners at the next graveside if your phone starts ringing underground. And all the more so if you answer it - "HELLO? Sorry, I'll have to call you back I'm a bit tied up at the moment…"
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aloud? Allowed!
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And imagine how frustrating it would be if you came to and your battery was drained. ACK!
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Rainmom, I think when you get to heaven they exchange your Brooks Brothers suit for a nice robe. Then the suit is treated with a fire retardant chemical and processed via the heaven to hell Good Will truck.
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I would advise to leave the Brooks Brothers on earth and dress poor. Remember the eye of the needle. Poor is the way to go.
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I want to applaud everyone for such a civilized and respectful discussion. When i first saw your post i was afraid the fur would fly with some. I am so happy to be a part of a group that can agree to disagree and that has compassion for others feelings.
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Umm - is "amen" appropriate here, ramiller?
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Windyridge - ever see the film Defending Your Life with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep? When they stop at a way station prior to "moving on" they are given "taupas" to wear - very similar to the Arabic jubbahs but all white and terry cloth. If anyone is a movie fan - I highly recomend this film. It's about life after death but both funny and insightful - one of my a time favorites.
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Yes RM, great film. Another wonderful died and went to heaven flick is HEAVEN CAN WAIT with Warren Beatty.

And speaking of heavenly attire, the Seventh Day Adventists (the church I grew up in) were an offshoot of the mid 1800s "Millerties". Miller was a doomsday preacher, had a large following in New England and had predicted the second coming to fall on such and so day. He made a fortune selling "Ascension" robes that insured the wearers path to heaven. His predictions were wrong a few times, the faithful splintered and a large group formed the SDA church. The leading SDA prophet was Ellen G. White who established the SDA base in Battle Creek MI. She had amazing visions and predictions, flood, famine, hardship etc. and I might add, had suffered a serious closed head injury as a young girl.

There may be an SDA reading this who would quibble about my history, I don't claim to be any SDA historian, but the above facts are well founded and documented. Nor do I bring this up to insult this church. SDAs are some of the most generous and kindest people on earth. True Christians. But lest you think this history sounds a little nutty, Google Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses or a dozen other modern, popular and respected American religions that came to be in this same era. The Great Awakening, I think it's refered to. These religions are like Rodney Dangerfield, they don't get no respect. They don't have the seniority of Catholicism, Judaism or Islam. People don't see the big 3 as kooky cause they been around so long. Well, that may be changing about Islam..........just look what some of those guys are doing in the name of God...
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I've been off/on reading the comments. Much of what I had to say has already been very well articulated by others but am glad this didn't descend into a nasty chaos. I've seen that on other boards and thought no thanks. My life since Thanksgiving has been filled chaos, way beyond my own elder care issues so I've been busy with others who needed me with plenty of prayers and tears:-) Still I can appreciate this discussion.
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Windyridge - I totally agree with you - Heaven Can Wait with Warren was very good - better than the original, IMO. Dyan Cannon became my "big hair" idol from that time on. I also agree about the "newer" religions. As I said in a previous post I have been fascinated by the LDS church since I was a kid - there was a huge beautiful Mormon church a few houses down from where I grew up. Much later Utah was a part of my district at work and for several years I spent a week there every month - all my employees were LDS of course. Why is it any crazier that Joseph Smith received his message in a field than Moses did from a talking bush on fire atop a mountain? They lose where a woman has to be married to a man to make it into heaven, however! I don't know much about the SDAs beyond having a masseuse who was one and would talk about it once in a while - but you've peaked my intrest and will probably be googleing it tonight.
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Yes! Dylan Cannon, Charles Grodin were delightful as the bumbling lovers. Was it Buck Henry that played St Pete?
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I don't think Buck Henry was actually St. Peter - more of an angel who picked up the soul and brought it to the pearly gates - a guide angel? James Mason might have been St. Peter or God - I wasn't ever sure which.
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Maybe it's just a coincidence or maybe I just have the TV on too much - my husband and I never caught the series Dexter when it was on so we've been On Demand -ing it and doing season at a time marathons. Started season six a couple days ago - it's all about God, finding "the light", and the Revelations chapter of the bible. Turned on the TV a few minutes ago - City of Angels just started. I think I rather a young Nicolas Cage guide me to heaven than Buck Henry, lol!
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I don't know -- Nicholas Cage is pretty creepy.
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Wash your mouth out, JessieBelle! I love Nicholas Cage. Though I must admit I'd love to know who came up with the idea that he should be an all-action hero type. But he was fabulous in The Weather Man - I think he is a genuinely talented actor.
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I agree with Jessie. I think Nicholas Cage is a creep.
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Windy,

My tombstone, if I were to be buried, would read "HEAVEN DOESN'T WANT ME, H*LL'S AFRAID I'LL TAKE OVER."

But that's not going to happen. I'm neither going to be buried nor cremated. I'll be recycled.

Already donated my organs and everything else for science to play with. Funerals are too expensive, and my family in Brazil isn't going to put up with all that drama.
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Eddie,

you are a cool guy. As to the Nick Cage issue, I like the old Nicholas Cage before he got so commercial.
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Did anyone ever see "Lord of War"? He was quite good in that. I'm wary of any Nic Cage film tho, because Gershon is quite right -- he can be quite creepy.
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I think it depends on the film - Nicolas Cage - not God...well, maybe God too. I liked Nic in City of Angels, 8mm -which is a creepy film but Nic is a good guy and his performance in Leaving Las Vegas is first class. But yeah - he boarders on creepy. Another film - Kissing Jessica Stein, has a scene where they talk about guys who are "sexy-ugly". They list Harvey Keitel as an example - agreed? I think Cage falls into that category or maybe "creepy-sexy"? What were we talking about...?
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Crisis of Faith and Nicholas Cage. Which of these things go together? Hmmm.......
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Tommy Lee Jones, would be my category nomination for that. Actually there's a fair few of them when you stop to think about it. Much harder to pull off is sexy and credible, and I'm not going to state the obvious successful example for fear he's done something to offend everyone too!
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Oh come on CM! Now I will be wide awake wondering to whom you are referring. We are still talking about sexy-ugly, right?
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Joaquin Phoenix -- don't know about sexy-ugly, but he's kind of creepy, don't you think?
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