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Well written, Countrymouse. No wonder that poem was published so many years ago. You have a gift for writing.
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Robert Heinlein put it thus: "there is no proof of life after death. But neither is there any proof against it. Sooner or later you will know…"

The other question, of why suffering is visited on good people to no clear purpose, is one for the ages. I remember stumbling over something along the lines of: "without your consent you are born and without your consent you live and without your consent you die" [so take what you're given and stop complaining, was the gist] - probably Chasidic, it usually is when it's that brusque.

Rainmom, like you I had a bit of a liquorice all-sorts religious education and took it terribly, terribly seriously when I was a wee tot. In fact the other day a "friend" emailed me a copy of a poem I wrote on the subject that got inexplicably published in the school magazine in 1975 - excruciating, I wish I could track down all copies and burn them immediately - but I digress. Did you not find, in your religious travels, that most if not all traditions have their central tenets in common? So that none of them has the answer, but then again in other ways they all do and you can't go far wrong whichever you follow?

To give an example of what I'm getting at, take mindfulness. Very useful habit to develop, lots of medical evidence of how good it is for calming down your brain hormones and helping you get your priorities straight. But as I was trawling the internet for a guide book to practical mindfulness (and tee-heeing over some of the extremely funny satires you bump into while you're at it), and rejecting them one after the other on the grounds of bad grammar or bonkersness or extortion, it occurred to me that the many, many hours I spent long ago sitting, standing or kneeling in a variety of religious settings - well, varied except for the extreme cold, that is - were in themselves devoted to exactly the same purpose. And since I am already familiar with C of E liturgy, I might as well stick to it. Unfortunately Sister Eleanor with her gleaming Goebbels glasses is no longer around to chivvy me down to the chapel so my new year's resolution is not going so well - I say resolution. More tinkering with an idea - that re-establishing a pattern to the week and including in it regular attendance at a service would do me good and concentrate my mind.

I don't think answers, or Answers, are what religion is for; and especially not Christianity, with the celebration of mystery at its heart. But look at all the goodies you do get! You get an ethical and philosophical framework. You get a perspective on the world and how you ought, as best you can, to deal with it. You get the condensed experience, and often wisdom, of countless preceding generations. If you're the clubbable type, you get a community to be part of. You get a 24/7 helpline - and even if you don't feel you get any feedback from prayer, prayer does at least help you organise your hopes and cares. I wouldn't throw out those babies with the bathwater.

I also wouldn't worry about getting struck by lightning. I work on the assumption that, as with the prodigal son, God would be delighted to welcome your faith; but quite honestly, if you're not ready, if you never will be ready, if you flatly refuse to countenance the existence of any such thing even, it's no skin off His nose (I don't expect he puts it quite like that). Certainly not to the extent of bothering to smite you, anyway.

I wonder if maybe what we lose when something terrible happens, or whole series of terrible things for that matter, is not so much faith as trust. We trust in a loving God who orders the universe, and when that universe seems to us to be going very badly and painfully we would like an explanation. But tough, we're not getting one.

So no, you don't get many "why?" answers, I agree. Just a thought: it's possible we wouldn't understand the answer even if we knew what it was.

"The cheese mites asked how the cheese got there,
And warmly debated the matter.
The orthodox said it came from the air
And the heretics said from the platter."
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I loved John Denver too. His songs touched my heart and soul. I'm sad that the music today is either whiney, frantic or discordant. It doesn't have soul! I listen to the 60's and 70's.
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Good Lord! Pun intended. I knew that! Just made a post a few days ago with a Gilligans Island reference. Plus - I also love John Denver - what girl child from the 60's didn't! You don't suspose its Alzimers, do you? Okay - bad joke! Thanks for the correction!
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Rainmom, I just have to say it -- John Denver. Bob Denver was Gilligan and Manor G. Krebbs (or however you spell it). John Denver was my vocal hero. I just loved his music, especially "Looking for Space." The song fits this conversation so well. Anyone who wants to play it can find the video online. If that song doesn't wake up something inside, nothing can.
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Nothing wrong with that assandache, that's what this thread is about. All believer, non-believers and those just not sure are all welcome.
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I told myself to stay away from this discussion but here goes:

Years of Parochial School raised Catholic in Boston has put much doubt in my religous beliefs...
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cmagnum summed it up well. Rain, thank you for sharing. You are not alone. I was also a Presbyterian, went to church every Sunday, was even a Deacon. Then when I was around 50, I stopped going (mostly because my church became much too politically involved and opinionated to the point the minister's sermons were bashing one side, praising the other. In other words - no longer spiritual but preaching a political agenda.) So I stopped going. That was 15 years ago, and I never went to another church. A few years ago, I sort of forgot to pay, then I forgot how to pray. Now I am heartbroken because I have lost my faith, and I want it back. But, I too, wonder how there can be so much cruelty in the world and can't accept it is God's "test". Now I am confused and don't know where to turn. I live by God's word, by God's rules, by the 10 commandments but I don't know how to look up any more. I've thought about talking to a pastor, but if I hear the same old "rhetoric" that won't do it for me. I need a spiritual awakening, a message or something. I just don't know how to find it. And watching my mother decline day by day and knowing that in 20 years I will go that path has not helped my emotions without God to turn to with complete faith.
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Babalou, very nice, insightful, educated and concise observation.

Jessie, very realistic and compassionate assessment in your first post, and well balanced scientific vs. acceptance on faith analysis in your second post, although I do recall reading sometime ago about scientists who do accept that there is a god. And the null hypothesis? Wow! You're helping me remember things I'd forgotten about.
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Anyone remember the old movie "Oh God" with Bob Denver and George Burns? I can't remember the specifics of the movie but I clearly recall God (George Burns) saying he didn't get involved in the little things - and just about everything was little. That he created man, gave him free will and left the rest up to us - even if the results were disappointing. I remember it so well because I thought "that's it! That's how it works". I must have been a young teenager at the time - but I continue to believe that if our existence is a product of one great creator, that he/she is not a micromanager. I don't blame God for the atrocities that mankind does - genocide, wars, the wide variety of abuses suffered by children and animals etc. If there is a God he must surely be shaking his head at the millions of deaths that have occurred since the beggining of time in his name. As for the vast differences in religions - some claiming to be THE religion - I think there's room for all that are sincere in their service to God. Even the religions that seem a little out there to non-members. Both my dad and I were fascinated by the LDS - Mormon - we could talk about them for hours. I use to have a store manager who worked for me - he was an Elder in his LDS church. On an overnight visit to his store we went out to dinner - we agreed our discussion was "off the books" and spent the entire dinner talking about his church. He told me he viewed disabled children as the closest to God - that they are only here to help us become better people and when their time here is over they immediately get to "go on". I gotta admit I liked the idea - but I also was between husbands at the time and he also said "Join the LDS church, we'll find you a husband". Umm - no thanks! But both Bookluvr and Retiredarmy touch on what I think is a large part of my problem - after all my crisis began with my dads death. But what happens when we die? Are we just dead? Is there heaven and hell? I've even pondered what happens in heaven - when we see our loved ones again, how does it work for a remarried widow? Which husband is she reunited with? Or is it all one big happy family without trivial worries like that? I know that seems like a silly thing to worry about...Another movie reference - anyone see Defending Your Life? I like to think that perhaps if there is life after death it works like that. But the fact is no one knows what happens to our "soul" after we die. There is no science, no great faith that knows that for sure. I suspose that if the conclusion of my search is depended on knowing that - I will remain forever lost.
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Faith isn't just about spiritual belief, but also emotional belief from within each person. Questioning faith is what makes us human. Death of a loved one can cause such questioning. All the knowledge in the world about religions cannot answer what is after death, anymore than what happened before birth. All I can say is if you have belief in yourself and continue being a good person you will find the inner peace you had found prior to your father's death.
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I was raised a Catholic. When I was in elementary age, I remember praying to God on why He made me be born (terrible childhood and wondered why God made me born to suffer all these terrible things.) When I was age 19, I wanted to learn more about God. I went to the Catholic church and asked how I can learn the bible. Didn't care for the answer. So, I signed up for a bible study through the mail with the Seventh Day Adventist. I also spoke to other religions. In the end, I chose one. I learned to read the Bible from front to end, several times. I would study it by reading different bibles - King James, Catholic, etc... I would have like 4 to 5 bibles out in front of me and I would read each verse from all the bibles. Some bibles had those footnotes. I would go to those footnotes (using all the bibles.) I attended bible classes, etc...

I've learned from the bible stories that to believe in God and to have faith in him is not an easy road to travel (hence go thru the narrow road and not the wide road). You see in the examples of Noah, Lot and his wife, Jonah (who didn't want to preach God's words to those scary people and so he fled - and got swallowed by a fish - most likely a whale..) Paul and Jesus suffered. Hence, in my conclusion, I believe in God but I choose not to follow the narrow road. I will continue to plug on in life and when I die, Please Do NOT resurrect me! I don't want to go to heaven or earth or anywhere. When I die, leave me be.

In all my readings of the Bible, the only time God killed people - it was by mass killing - like the Flood, Lot's city which was filled with really bad sinners (even young boys tried to rape the angels who went in looking for people worthy of saving due to Lot's requests...) It's called Judgment. I'm a little sketchy on the stories because it's based on my memory of that time when I was deeply into the bible (in my mid-20's).

So, when my sister's boyfriend shot the gun and accidentally killed their baby who was going to 'drop' in her stomach to be born, I was very angry when the priest said in the funeral mass that it was God's Will that He took the baby.... God did Not take that baby. His father killed him. Not God. I'm 100% positive that my sister's baby will be resurrected when the allotted time arrives. When people say that my mom might be resurrected, inside, I cringe. I don't know. Because I don't know if God will think she's worthy of a 2nd chance despite the way she raised us kids. I don't know, I don't care...as long as I die, and I stay dead. This life sucked since I was in kindergarten (furthest memory of my deep fear of staying home from school. I'd rather be in school where I was bullied, than to stay home...) I have no desire to live forever, not even if it's in heaven. Just let it be done. Period.
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Science and religion can't be considered together, cmag. There is no way to test if there is a god or not. If we consider god as the one who knows everything, god is totally awesome. Particle physics and neuroscience are trivial things to god, because god has all the knowledge needed to build the universe and each part within it.

In order to test something, you have to step outside of it and formulate a hypothesis of some sort. We could do something very simple like hypothesize that god is responsible for an ant moving (or the null hypothesis that god is not responsible). We could show all the chemistry and mechanics that support that god is not needed for the ant to be moving. BUT we are inside the system and cannot say that god was not the master chemist and physicist that put it all together at the start.

Science and faith don't mix, so aren't considered together. Any scientist will simply say that "God isn't real" is not a testable hypothesis. Some scientists believe in god; others don't. Scientific "evidence" that there is no god is no more valid than religious "evidence" that there is.
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Here's my second post about proof. I hope this communicates better.

I must add some comments about the word "proof" and then I'll be quite.

The phrase "scientifically proven" is a great marketing tool. However, science does not prove anything absolutely.

Why? There is always the possibility of finding new information. The new information may support a theory. The new information may contradict the theory.

For example, we might think that a certain medicine has been proven to work. However, over time, they may find that it has unexpected side effects that are worse than the benefits of the medicine. Another example from medicine is sometimes a medicine is found to help people with other problems than the one the medicine was initially made for. For example, Viagra was initially made for the heart, but then other uses were found which most people know it by today. Another medical example is Latuda which is an antipsychotic was recently approved for helping those suffering from bipolar depression like me.

Because new information might be found to support or contradict a medical product or something, a good scientist will say something along the lines of "the evidence supports the theory that ..." They will never say "my theory is proven."

We would like absolute certainty. However, we have to be content with how much confidence we have in the evidence. In other words, what is the probability this is true based on what we have found.

For example, some biblical scholars thought that there must have been two Isaiahs who wrote the book of Isaiah. When pushed to say why, their answer shows a prior assumption that Isaiah prophecy about what would happen to Israel could not have taken place. Their prior assumption, not any evidence is why they saw it this way. A prior assumption is also known as a presupposition.

Years later, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls showed that Isaiah was one whole book. This ancient copy of Isaiah led people to have more confidence that the original Isaiah was one whole book with one author.

People sometimes question how reliable is our current copy of the New Testament. Over the years more and more copies of the NT or parts of the NT have been found and darted. The result is that we have more evidence that supports, not proves how reliable our current copy of the NT is.

We have more copies of the NT or parts that are nearer to when they were written than other ancient writings. This does not prove anything. However, it does suggest a high probability or likelihood.

It is far too easy to skip observing, questioning, and interpreting the evidence for and against. When someone does that, they just jump right into their own self-selective conclusions with selective "proofs" or evidence. We see this when people use the Bible as a collection of proof texts for their own purpose.

Otherwise, one is left with easily believing something or easily not believing something without the hard work of thinking either through.
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I'm not sure that God "takes" anyone. Why some good older adults die while some mean adults live is an age old question that is also asked in the Old Testament Psalms who voice such feelings about this type of injustice, but then end in faith. Also, I'm not sure that all good older people die before the mean ones do. Maybe this is easier for me to deal with for I've seen death of loved ones and friends that I knew since I was a child.
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Religion, heaven and hell never cross my mind. Everyone is entitled to believe in what they wish but for me it's all about how you treat others day to day. Having been abused by Mommie Dearest life long I prefer animals to most humans though I do have a close circle of friends I can trust and be myself with. I support local animal rescue and share the bounty of fruit, veggies and chicken from my little homestead every year. It's not earth shaking but it is who I am and who I will always be.
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Woo, this is a bit deep for me. My religious beliefs are very simple. God is the spirit that breathes energy and life into the universe. Everything carries a bit of the spirit. So we see a rock, a squirrel, or a tree. They all carry their bit of the spirit in them. When we think this way, we have respect for the things around us.

About wars and sickness -- they are going to happen. Deer fight. Squirrels fight. Fish eat each other. Chimps will wipe out another group of chimps. Humans may hold up holy books and wage holy war, but it's really just trying to gain dominance. Sickness it pretty much the same. Everything gets sick and dies. Humans have found ways to make life longer, but at the same time have made sickness longer. This is quite understandable, since people generally died before they were 80 and now often live well into their 90s. Those last years often carry the burden of poor health. So they are a blessing on one hand and a curse on the other.

One thing I love to see is the effort of some philanthropists to ease suffering in the world. I like it best when they don't make the help contingent on believing in a certain religion. This kind of help is saying that it is there because the individuals are special and worthy, and not to promote an agenda. The world is a sad place at times. Sometimes people are killed or not helped because they're not the "right" religion.
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We live in a fallen world in which the last enemy is death.


Indeed! At 52 years old the only death I have ever known was the death of my parent's. Both died while I held them. Yes. Death is indeed an enemy and my faith is hanging by small withering threads.

Often I see elderly that appear to be not so nice and I wonder why God took the only people that I loved. Why did this happen? They were great people and not so great people continue to thrive.
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Just the last one Magnum. No apology necessary. You can't help that you are smart.
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Sorry for using some academic jargon. I'll work on rewording in laymen's terms. My mistake, not your intelligence. :)

Are you speaking of my most recent post or all of the above?
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Magnum please repeat everything you just said in laymen's terms. I am not as smart as you. :)
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I must add some comments about the word "proof" and then I'll be quite.

The phrase "scientifically proven" is a great marketing tool, but science does not prove anything absolutely. A good scientist will say something along the lines of "the evidence supports the theory that ..." but will never say "my theory is proven, look at this data."

While truth is the absolute goal, we can always gather or discover more data which means that perfect certainty cannot be known. Thus, scientists often use statistics to measure the confidence level that the data gives in support for their theory.

This leaves one with a confidence or probability level for explaining something based on the ranking of the evidence which either adds or subtracts from the probability of something being correct. Not all evidence is of equal probability rank just like in a court of law.

Everyone has presuppositions and those will automatically preclude some evidence while including other evidence. Therefore, a person's presuppositions will shape their reasoning about the evidence which means that complete, impartial, objective reasoning is not totally possible. Anyway, we humans are not as rational in how we live as much as we would like to think that we are.

So, looking at the basis of one's knowledge claim and one's presuppositions behind those claims must be thought through by means of critical thinking.

Otherwise, one is left with easily believing something or easily not believing something without the hard work of thinking either through.

It is far too easy to skip inductive thinking with its focus on observation, questioning, and interpreting and jump right into deductive thinking with selective "proofs", upon which conclusions and applications are made.
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Here's a poem that I wrote 5 years ago about Tragedies.

Barnacles are like the tragedies of life.
On a wooden ship they destroy its life.

Those who run into barnacles are diced.
Barnacles can shipwreck your or another’s life.

Ever hear that hurt people, hurt people too?
How can this not be true of me and you?

If we refuse to feel the pain and anger of being diced.
We end up numb and dumb just like ice.

To forever nurse the pain,
Leads to never being free to love again.

We cannot chose to be or not to be hurt by the barnacle like tragedies and people in life.
However, we can chose not to let them make us like a barnacle in another’s life.

To be or not to be a barnacle is the question for tonight.
To feel hurt and anger, but sin not is a difficult fight.

However, it is the biblical way to a better day.
Yet holding on to it and nursing it digs a dark and dreary day.

People, we do this as if it will somehow accomplish something.
But in all honesty, that choice accomplishes nothing.
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I may have posted this months ago on another thread. If I have, forgive me for repeating it. This is a more complete statement of where I am on this.

I often run into 2 extreme views about suffering. .

1. One is that everything good and bad that takes place in our lives was predestined to take place anyway.

In this outlook, God becomes responsible for making everything predestined in our lives and we nor anyone else has any responsibility for anything that takes place. One of the most common expressions that I've heard of this outlook is when someone tries to comfort a grieving parent by telling them that God needed another angel in heaven which makes God the heavy for the child's death.

2. The other is that since we have free will, that we are totally in control of everything that takes place in our lives and if it does not take place, it is entirely our fault and ours alone. In this outlook,

In this outlook, God becomes viewed as either irrelevant or the means by which we gain and/or accomplish everything we want. This is practical atheism and a utilitarian view of God by others. While some live like God does not exist, that does not mean God has ceased existing or that people do not need God in their lives.

While some live like they think they can control God to make them prosperous and successful, that does not mean that God is a gene in a bottle or a teller two machine that we just have to plug into with the right formula. I hear this often when someone is told that they are not healed from their depression because they don't have enough faith or that they are not prosperous because they did not claim certain scripture passages to make them prosperous as if those verses were the access code for getting into the teller two machine. Trying to manipulate God to get what we want is not faith, it's magic and magic is not biblical. An attempt to relate to God magically leads ultimately to a person acting as if God died and left them in control which is not true.

Unlike the rest of the people around them, magic was looked down upon for Israel. Also, contrary the religious culture of the ancient near east and elsewhere where idols were worshiped because of a belief that they controlled the weather, crops, fertility, etc, Israel was commanded to not make any idols and when they did, they got in big trouble. Idol worship is also a form of magic. People who live with a magical view of God are worshiping an idol of how they have shaped God to be in their mind. We don't find a magical approach to God in the Old Testament or the New Testament as being on target.

For me, faith in God is a relationship of trust which recognizes God as God and does not try to reshape God like we want God to be or by making the world the end and faith the means. It is a relationship in which we realize that God is our creator and that we live in a world like it is because of the risky business of free will which God gave Adam and Eve which they messed up by sinning against God.

So, neither absolute determinism nor absolute free will really fit with either the Bible or today's world of good and evil which is only more technologically advanced, but human nature remains the same.

This is where I'm coming from.
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Rainmom, et.al. don't worry, most people don't have those soul-piercing "nights of fire" like Blaise Pascal and SherChell wre blessed with, and no, it is not indicating you just need to pray harder or try harder. And God is almost never mad at individuals for doubting and wondering about their suffering or the sufferings of others.

As for me, I realize through my experiences that I've been given more than enough reason to believe...there is scripture and the Mass which is always the Mass even when the music is bad or the sermon boring. My son and I recently reread Job together...has not quite convinced him to come back to the faith, but I see goodness in him and pray every day. The abuses of religion are a major reason people leave the faith, because one would suppose that given the truth and the desire to to good, all religious people would, but, well, one would seem to be wrong. Churches are more like hospitals for sinners than museums for saints as the saying goes. And in my Church, its a special jubilee Year of Mercy...Lord knows we need it!!

I think one of the hard answers to suffering is this: to make the world free of suffering, God would have to control us to the point of having no life or will of our own, like Camazotz in the old Madeleine L'Engle story, and that would be a greater evil from His point of view. So, He did what He did instead, and part of Christianity's answer is that He then chose to share our suffering with us, promising to be with us in it and a way to triumph over it all in the end.
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RainMom, I feel your pain, sadness, and frustration. I, also, was very close to my father. He was my hero and was my role model for my future partner. He suffered horrifically from complications of advanced cancer treatment that I still have nightmares every and now then and he expired in 2007. Since then, I've been caring for my slowly declining mother. At this point in my life I consider myself agnostic; I don't believe in being reunited with others but I do believe there's something that's guiding me because there are events that have happened in my life that were too random to not have been planned. Before my father's illness, I was such a mess. I wasn't into drugs, I was just making very bad decisions. After I found out about my father's illness, I immediately dropped my career, my fiance, my friends to care for him and for my mother, who had her own set of health issues at the time. Because of what I went through with him, I became a better person for it. I'm on such a better path in life because of my father's suffering. If he was alive today and wasn't ill, then I would've ended up in a very dark place given the path I was on at that time. Yes, I miss him everyday. Yes, I wish he could see me now. But I can't help but believe that it had to be his suffering to change the trajectory of my life - for the better. I have to hold on to this belief that this is how it was supposed to be, otherwise I'll end up a very angry and resentful person and I don't want this negativity in my life as it will affect my health. I think it's perfectly okay for you to be angry, to question, to reject whatever it is you were raised to believe - and allow this to happen over and over, even if it's years from now - until you've exhausted this process. Then, maybe, you'll come to peace and see why events happened the way it did. I did this, actually.
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Well faith in God and religion are two different things. I have faith in God and am not a bit religious. Secondly God gave each of us free will. Genocide,starvation, all of those things are not done to us by God. If everyone of us did as we should there would be no war, starving etc.

Can you imagine what life would be like if we didn't have free will. We would be like robots. Yeah, there would be no starving, genocide, war etc. but if we were all the same, what would be the point. I believe and I know that if I didn't have my faith, life would of been even harder than it has been.

But, its the age old argument. Plus there are fanatics in every walk of life. People who take a simple idea and turn it into a cause. There are many christians out there who don't jump on you with their thoughts and try to ram them down their throats. I don't go around preaching to people. If someone asks I'll tell them.
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Yes, there a various books that will compare the vast differences of belief and doctrine of various religions.

Even within Christianity there is a spectrum of fundamentalist, evangelical, moderate, modernist, and extreme liberal.

There are also books that make an intelligent case for Christianity itself and those which do so in contrast to other religions.

The biggest challenge to belief is the problem of suffering in the world.

Personally, I don't think that God has an exact, predetermined map or plan for each individual person. That removes free will and removes any responsibility for one's choices. No where in the Bible does it say that God will not allow suffering to come into out lives that is more than we can bear. Some follow the suggestion of Job's wife to curse God and die. However, others chose to not curse God and give up even with the suffering not making any sense like Job did.

I also get very tired of those who try to explain some lesson that someone is supposed to learn from suffering for there is not always an explanation for the suffering. My second cousin died from a bullet fired by a policeman at a criminal that missed him and traveled as a stray bullet which killed my second cousin who was delivering the mail in a troubled neighborhood. Who is at fault? Why did this happen? There aren't any clear answers. I put puzzles like this in God's hands who is much greater than me.

From my perspective, life is risky, painful, often chaotic and sometimes one breath away from catastrophe or death itself. Often what takes place in my life and in the lives of others can be because of something I did or did not do or because of my human limitations or moral condition. Or things can take place in my life or others because of what others do or don't do depending on their human limitations or moral condition. However, that still does not answer for all suffering. We live in a fallen world in which the last enemy is death.

Personally, I believe that there is no suffering so dark or problematic catastrophic hole that God's love and presence is not deeper yet despite regardless if we feel his presence or not. There were many times in Mother Teresa's life that she did not feel God but she kept believing. No where in the Bible is faith defined as a feeling, but as trust. To live by feelings is very shaky ground for me.
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Has anyone ever pondered on the vast differences if belief and doctrine of various religions? There has already been discussion in this thread about the contradiction of Gods love vs all the terrible things God allows to happen and the loss of faith this seems to cause.

But how does one reconcile the beliefs of Mormons with Baptists for example. Both groups have starkly different views of heaven and hell and what gets you to either place. Both groups have absolute faith (there's that term again) that their beliefs are correct and spend time praying for the souls of those who don't share their views. I'm not picking on these two groups, we could list hundreds of popular religions and the sects within many, but it's just mind boggling when you consider all the vastly conflicting "faith based" doctrines that are totally incompatible with each other, let alone any rational thought.

As a kid I was taught that only those that attended my church and believed as we did would get into heaven. All the rest would perish in everlasting hells fire and brimstone. It seemed to me that heaven was going to have lots of elbow room.
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I went to Sunday school a few times as a small child but, if the weather was nice, Mommie Dearest wanted to go to the beach. They said either come every week or not at all, so that was the end of that. My family were never religious in any way, shape or form and throughout my life I've only been to church a few times for weddings and funerals.

Having had many experiences in my life, I do believe in the spirit world but I can't condone religion in any shape or form when so many wars and killings have been done under its guise. I defend anyone's right to believe in what they wish but when they push it in other people's faces it's a deal breaker.

I have a crazy bible thumping woman across the road ... unfortunately the only house for a mile. When I first lived here, almost 3 years ago, she was all over me quoting scriptures, trying to take my life over and dictate how I should live and what I should do with my property. One summer afternoon, as she jumped up and down screaming about satan, I snapped and threw her off the front lawn. She hasn't come near me since except for some blistering, accusatory, threatening emails containing scriptures and comments proving that she spies on me with binoculars.

She hides in her house with some 40 unfixed, unshotted cats, doesn't work and doesn't drive. Hubby, a harmless sad little man, takes her shopping for groceries and umpteen cases of beer on Saturday morning. There is never a visitor. I don't watch them but my little dog parks herself in the front window and screams at anything that moves and, with incidences of rabies in the area lately ... I had a sick racoon come after me recently ... I check out what she's screaming at.

I've saved her emails in case I have to ever get a restraining order but, since she discovered my career was in the legal profession, she'll be too scared to come near me. I find it sad and feel sorry for them both.

I saw something recently that sums it up ... "Religion is like a p*n*s. I'm happy for you to have it, love on it and worship it but whip it out and wave it in my face and we have a problem".. Sorry folks, but that's just my feeling. You can murder someone on Saturday and trot off to church on Sunday ... excuse me?
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