I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Do you see the difference.
H doesn't ask her the above questions and then hover and question as to what her responses would be. SIL does, very much .. ask .. and then hover and harangue.
I told H that he and his sister, in the worst kind of way need to sit and talk (it's not going to happen anytime soon, SIL is back in her home state and heavily occupied with her g'kids in town and her son and his wife and will be for the next 3 plus weeks). The both of them need to talk, so badly.
SIL needs to hear H's approach. That no, he isn't going to go over there, lift her leg into a chair to inspect the damage as to the failure to take Lasix and then dog after her about the ramifications of her choices. He will look, if she asks .. if she expresses concern . he will do so .. but to take it upon himself to do that. It wouldn't occur to him to be that VIGILANT. H needs to express to SIL how he doesn't question her about her choices to not eat appropriately, not take her Lasix .. etc etc etc. He just doesn't. He isn't that much of a micro-manager. Never has been. As he said of his sister, "She just doesn't have that gear, ... that I don't give a Sh&% gear .. you have to have that gear and she doesn't have it".
It is very interesting sitting back in the audience watching the two, very different, approaches.
As for me, .. I am helping on the dd front .. and g'daughter. Yesterday I took dd .. to her two appointments (she an no longer waddle through parking lots .. and so I drive .. drop her at the front door, and then go occupy g'daughter for her). We then went to return some gifts she'd gotten, . go get store credit .. (baby items). Then, off to a bounce house place for g'daughter to play, then out to lunch .. and then deposited dd and her daughter back at their home, for nap time.
Today will be much the same .. I have g'daughter this morning .. and she is running errands with me this morning .. and her mommy has a lab appointment .. and then will return to my home .. to relax in the pool some (she says that being weightless in the pool is like heaven). And I will take g'daughter to the local library for children's time .. (stories/crafts/songs). And then to the local burger joint where there is an indoor obstacle course to play.
I am doing what I can, where I can, to make a difference. The above, with MIL was making no difference and it was an exercise in constant futility.
My assessment is that MIL is careening towards some other health issues .. that will find her confined to a hospital setting, which will GREATLY displease her .. and SIL will be hopping up and down from afar as to who an stay with mother at the hospital (no one) .. who can accompany her at home so that she can follow instructions appropriately (no one) ..
SIL is going to have to find a way (I think H is right, she doesn't have that gear), she needs to find a way to loosen her grip on it all .. and yes .. it may mean hospitalization for her mom (OMG NO .. she would hate that .. NO NO .. we can't let that happen). SIL is under the false illusion that all this micro-management can stave off the confinement in hospitals, and other maladies that can befall her mother.
I suppose if SIL wants to stay right here and hover over her mother (her mother hates that, or says she does .. I don't know .. I give up as to who is the more twisted in the whole dynamic of this Terms of Endearment scenario) ... if SIL wants to uproot her life several states away and stay right here and make her mother's welfare, her daily charge .. I suppose that MIL would be well managed and looked after and cared for.
That isn't reality. I know that .. have tried to be the proxy as to it all, as best I can with my other responsibilities in my life .. all the while shouting from the sidelines .. that this isn't working.
If SIL wants to do otherwise, .. go ahead .. knock yourself out, uproot your life .. then come here and make that your life's work . daily .. to make sure your mother is seen appropriately by yet one more doctor, .. go on the fools errands you constantly want seen to .. make sure her meds are taken as they should be, that she eats appropriately .. daily. Her brother surely isn't going to do that, . not even close. Nor am I. So .. either find a way to figure out that it aint gonna be pretty .. and likely get a whole lot messier and find a way to deal with that yourself .. or figure a way to uproot your life and manage it all the way you think it should be.
As for me, I'll keep doing what I'm doing, helping dd and g'daughter and then when the twins arrive, .. helping on that front.
The thing about SIL's attitude - the "if we all make enough sacrifices then lo! Mother will be healed and happy" fantasy - is that it can be highly contagious, very hard to resist. The cynic in me tends to remark that the proponents of this school of thought are not usually the ones who do the actual work; but besides, even if you're working with a Sacrificial Lamb type who does roll her sleeves up, it isn't going to make the theory come true in practice. Yet when they come up with such dicta as Mother Must Never Be Left Alone or We Must All Try Harder it's extremely difficult to be the hard-nosed b1tch who says "this is a complete waste of effort and the woman's losing her marbles - can we all stop encouraging her poor choices, please."
I have two thoughts that I hope you might find supportive.
First, your new strategy is the most likely to protect your MIL's best interests. Propping her up just clouds the issue: it is far more important for there to be a realistic assessment of what state her physical and mental health is in, and what support is needed to allow her to function both safely *and*, as far as possible, in her preferred environment.
Second, you are respecting your MIL's choices. For some people there really is such a thing as a fate worse than death; and it seems that for MIL that might include being "held prisoner" 🙄 in a nursing home. If she's absolutely determined to go down fighting, there are worse things you can do to her than just accept it.
(that poster was me).
Will she refuse to go to the hospital in an episode like the above? Not likely. Her survival instinct will kick in. She's not ready to meet her maker yet I will bet, given the choice. Fight or flight? She will fight, you can attest to that.
In my experience (RN here) when seniors get out of tune due to reasons or bad choices they make (very very common one is not taking Lasix as prescribed simply because it's too much trouble to go to the BR that often, they progress to CHF or cellulitis) they will have an episode of 911, agree to go, and be admitted for a "tune up". Feeling better after a few days of IV Lasix and antibiotics to treat the cellulitis, the senior then tells the discharge planner "Oh I am ready to go home now, I can manage", the family steps in and says "no you can't anymore and for your safety we are changing the plan". It won't be easy to convince her, but in that case I have also seen things sort themselves out nicely- the senior kicking and screaming but acquiesces to the reality that yep it may be time. Still kicking and screaming of course as she adjusts to her "new Normal" and for months after will she kick & scream, wherever she ends up, AL/NH. (she doesn't sound to me she is NH material yet).
SIL's favorite phrase will be "Safety First", mom.
And you will be changing diapers and taking your granddaughter out for ice cream on the beautiful summer days ahead.
Stay strong, sister!
"Not my circus, not my monkeys"....
The place you can make a positive difference is in the lives of your children and grandchildren. Hope your daughter is doing well in these last stages of her pregnancy and your gd is doing well too.
MIL's needs increasing. I say so, . it gets discarded.
That's precisely why I sought out this site .. and the folks who've walked in these shoes.
SIL seems to have this mentality that her mom, (87 yo) and a myriad of health issues (non fatal, all manageable) .. can be made "whole" by running from pillar to post continually, and this false notion her mother will see it all through and take the meds as rx'd and follow instruction. And, with the exception of when she is here, on site (which she does do every few mos.) I AM expected to be the one schlepping around to do all this.
Case in point, she won't take her Lasix daily as rx'd .. and the docs have all recommended if you can't do that, then do the support hose. Won't do that either. The docs have all recommended she use her walker 100% of the time .. not a cane. She won't do that. Just too many to name, of instances where there is no follow through. Why am I gonna continue to bang my head against the wall. THIS IS NOT MY MOTHER!
MIL seems to have this false notion that she's got it all handled, .. "I can do this, I know what I need to do and I will do it". And the powers-that-be, in her son and daughter, seem to allow her that latitude, .. yet when that fails .. as it does, ALL THE TIME .. because she cannot .. "manage" ... then I am expected to pick up the charge and run with it.
I stand over on the sideline yelling .. "hey folks, this ain't working, .. her needs are increasing". SIL makes yet another 5 doc appts., with yet more instructions that don't get followed, .. and I speak up .. this happens time and time and time again.
Thus I have stepped off this crazy train.
Somewhere in all that mix is her son, my husband, .. for the most part, oblivious ... He has .. through the years, called her routinely, gone to visit .. and when he does so .. he talks of normal stuff, not all the ins and outs that SIL would eat/breath/sh&%...... , he visits, .. he fixes things that break. But outside of that he's oblivious as to her health maladies and what to do about them, and what meds she takes and doesn't take, and why. Oblivious.
At some point, like you said . you step back from it all. Which is what I am striving to do. I think I've done an exemplary job of not stepping back in and being the stepper/fetcher. Hopefully SIL is seeing from afar .. that her mother's assertion "I know what I have to do and I will do it, I will manage" .. and the fact that the stepper fetcher has stepped away from it all .. that it's in fact "not" getting managed, at this point.
Or not .. I really don't care.
I wanted to address one other thing. Someone had mentioned, so she ends up in the hospital . there she will be well cared for. I agree 1000%
HOWEVER ...........
That has not been the reality lived here. MIL will avoid inpatient at all costs .. every time. And SIL will jump through hoops and expect the same of me (or has in the past) .. anything/everything .. to keep MIL out of the hospital.
The couple of times she has been inpatient .. in the last several years .. she hates this, oh she hates it. She is a fall risk. Thus her bed is alarmed .. and if she gets out of bed (is instructed not to) without assistance (disarming whatever it is they do to her bed) .. then it sets off bells and whistles. SHE LOATHES THIS. She doesn't want to be confined to a hospital period . but that .. that notion .. figuratively tying her to a bed, I think she would go step out in front of that nice big truck she refers to.
THUS far that is what I've dealt with in trying to work with the situation. She opposes, vehemently, any hospitalization and fights it tooth and nail. And as everyone knows, no one will admit someone who refuses to comply. It's more of the "oh I know what I need to do here to care for myself, I don't need that". Seen it, too many times.
Don't know though what would happen going forward, absent the stepper/fetcher .. and her refusal of any hospitalization. I can't imagine it'll be pretty.
Just so you understand, you're a good person. You think of yourself as one who "steps up". I get it. I've been there and done that.
I come from a fairly functional family; we have our moments, but we talk frankly and don't hint, hide things or allow elephants to walk around our rooms. We also all have jobs, kids and lives that require tending.
My husband's family is very different. There are lots of secrets, lots of undisclosed information and everything is talked about in code. I've only been in his family for 15 years, so I'm still learning the ropes. When I met his mom, it was clear to me that something was "off". when I asked him about it he said "oh, some doctor says she has dementia, but she says she doesn't". And that was that.
I went with her to a few doctor's appointments (she was the kind of person who switched doctors like you switch underwear; if they were uncomfortable; she moved on.
I leared early that my help was not a help; it was seen as my trying to be controlling or bossy or a know it all ( I use big words; sorry).
So, I backed off. That's what you do if you have no say so. You back away and live your life.
In my family, my SIL is a great team player. she visits mom; she gives input into the discussion. No one asks her to be the disempowered shlepper of our mom; we understand that OUR mom is OUR problem.
No reason to feel guilty or anything at all. Let her family handle her health and her mental state. It's not your circus.
The neuropathy is probably from the Sjogren's. Check out sjogrens-dot-org
I was asked way back then even, to accompany him to doc appts .. even before MIL became more needy in 2004.
He had some pretty bad congestive heart failure (two prior heart attacks) .. life long HBP (tx'd but none the less). The thinking was, (and accurately so) he was a man of few words .. and so best if someone goes with him, to doc offices to explain what's going on and ask the appropriate ins and outs of it all.
The man could have a sore throat from h*ll .. and burning up with fever. The doctor would walk in and say "so what's going on with you today?". His answer would be, "Oh I have a scratchy throat". He just didn't articulate real well ... and so .. I was thrown into the mix in his last few years .. on that front .. and no, no reluctance on his part or MIL's.
He died in July of 2003 (botched colonoscopy). By spring of 2004 .. MIL had a stroke, and from there forward this whole thread and all of my complaints .. have been the order of the day.
SIL also working the above angle, from her mother's corner. Before you know it, a phone call to me, 50/50 .. sometimes MIL acquiescing .. and sometimes SIL ... "mother did agree that it might be best, .. so if you don't mind .. give her a call and let her now you'll agree to take her".
That's how it's gone all through the years.
MIL has driven herself, alone .. to appointments .. specifically .. non-issue appointments, as in .. a dental ck' up ..... just a primary care visit for them to ck her .. an appt where there are no issues. But all of the other NUMEROUS doc visits .. that are "issues", .. the above is how it has played out.
I can remember one occasion, my mother was here .. at my home .. H and I bandying about as to who would take MIL to the doc. I had a prior commitment, as did he .. and my mother piped in (My mother, retired and in fairly good health). "I don't mind taking her you guys, . I hear you guys talking and both of you are spoken for, it's not a problem for me, if you'd like to ask her if that'd be alright, I'd be happy to get her there".
Asked MIL. You would have thought I asked if Lucifer himself could drive her to the appointment. Oh H*LL NAW!!!!!!!!!!!! That wasn't her answer, but it might as well have been. And, cloaked in .. "I don't know your mother all that well, and you know how I am .. when I have you help me, I usually have to lean on you to get out of the car and into and out of places .. I just wouldn't feel comfortable doing that, not with your mother.
I don't recall what did occur with the above. Likely I moved my world around to accommodate the whole situation, as has been done so many hundreds of times through the years. Until now.
Hmm, to answer as to her myriad of health problems.
She had a stroke, about 2004. That left her with balance issues .. she sways and so forth, when standing/walking . and tends to list to the left when walking .. (very very very slowly she walks).
Somewhere along the way cholesterol became an issue and she's run the gamut as far as statins .. can't take them. They cause her terrible muscle pain/weakness. The result has been some atrophy to her muscles ... is this because she is so weak and so forth from the stroke and balance issues. Is this because of her age .. is this because of the statins that really, she cannot take. Who knows. But .. she has really weak, painful legs.
Yes, she has had several rounds of PT through the years, at home and at a facility. Usually that culminates in her dispensing of said services when she gets good and ready, not following the whole course of tx plan. Her saying she "isn't up to it" Yes, even when they come to her, at her home. She "isn't up to it", as to even putting on clothes on a lot of days (stays in PJ's) .. and yes, she has been advised that PT staff are accustomed to that, and they don't mind if she's still in PJ's. Her vanity would never allow for that. She has to be sure her hair is so .. and her makeup is so, .. and her clothes are on. All of that .. is a monumental day's work for her. She sometimes "isn't up to it", thus she dismisses the PT regiment, more often than not, before it's run it's course.
She has neuropathy in her feet/legs. Stroke related? Muscle atrophy related? Who knows .. (she is not diabetic). But I have been with her at the nuerologist and they poke her, .. starting at her foot .. and on upwards thru her legs .. and she doesn't feel it until you get to just about her knee, both legs.
She has "some" congestive heart failure. But not to the degree she is on oxygen ..
She has Sjogren's Disease ..
She has Histoplasmosis ....
She has A-fib
I think the above, about sums it all up. None of the above, .. fatal . if managed appropriately.
Would she consider a geriatric psychiatrist. Not a chance in h*ll, no. And she was at one time, put on antidepressants, .. but again .. she knows better, that's not something she needs to take. That was discontinued by her. And it's been suggested she might benefit from an evaluation for antidepressant again ... and no ...
Her, just like a lot of other elderly folks, approach is one of: "oh they all want to throw a pill at you .. and then that pill causes so and so .. and then they throw another pill at you to fix the so and so .. and then the pill they threw at you to fix so and so, causes such and such and then next thing you know you've now got another pill to fix the such and such .. I'm not one to take handfuls of pills .. I'm not doing it".
Oooookay then!
Yes I do realize it was a success in that I didn't volunteer to step into the fray as to taking her to said appointment or hopping in my car to go examine this questionable foot/ankle issue. But what did strike me, as soon as I spoke the words, and I will learn from it. Back out of it, say as little as possible . SIL knows best, from afar .. her mom is upbeat and optimistic . accd'g to her ... yet H who goes there, reports otherwise ...
Stay out of it, ... is what I need to do. I know, from talking to her myself .. she doesn't want to be run from pillar to post to docs and docs and docs and docs .. but that's precisely what gets put on the radar .. with SIL directing from afar ... (until now).
And yes, I agree, .. although I wouldn't give it as good of odds. Turns out her vein appt is next Thursday of next week .. and I wouldn't bet money she'll get there, not a bit.
SIL will come unhinged, but she'll just have to come unhinged. My whole point here is if SIL wants her managed to that degree .. and MIL's refusal to allow anyone else to help her .. then SIL needs to figure out how to sell her home and move in down here and micro-manage her mother's daily living.
That's not going to happen. SIL has a life where she lives and friends .. and responsibilities, . and well she should, it's her life. But what she NEEDS to do, in my assessment anyway .................. she needs to either figure out how to put the screws to her mother that it's not gonna continue status quo (hasn't yet gotten there, SIL hasn't) .. or she needs to learn within herself, how to back up and not try to micro-manage from afar, by proxy (me). One of the two.
It doesn't sound like she's reasoning from facts here; not taking her Lasix is not going to buy her a ticket to heaven; it's going to land her in a NH.
Is she on an antidepressant? Can someone get her doctor to send her to a geriatric psychiatrist? Or is that one of the many things she "won't hear of"?
Hoping I am not sounding too mean, but through experience with MY MIL over the years, playing the martyr was her thing. In the meantime my MIL had it all - her home was paid for, a lovely car, investments, a pension, she was (& still is) thankfully a woman of means who is now 93 in a beautiful AL faculty as we speak.
I dis-engaged after my mom passed 4 yrs ago as I was emotionally done. My husband and his 2 siblings don't even ask me to get involved not for any other reason except she is their mother and to me, their responsibility. But I have watched her play the martyr too many times over the years to not recognize it and her kids see this as well. Fortunately the 3 of them have managed as has the MIL.
You didn't slip - this disengaging is a process and won't come without a few missteps on your part but stand firm to brace yourself from actually stepping backwards. You are doing well!!
You see now how she is playing one against the other? This is her plan to create drama and get attention for "poor me".
I knew she'd cancel that appt.
Her choice.
Not taking her Lasix? No surprise there.
Her choice.
It's hard, I know.
By her choices she may end up at the ER where she will be evaluated and taken care of.
If that episode is the one that begins serious consideration by her two children to arrange for supervised care, whether it be AL or NH, so be it.
Many of us (myself included) had to wait for the inevitable event that forced the decision to place our LO in long term care. For my brother and I, that event was the fact that my mom hadn't moved her bowels for two weeks and had to be admitted for disimpaction. Prior to that, she had several episodes of falls and almost burned her house down leaving a pot on the stove while cooking - she forgot the gas was on.
Prior to that she had managed to elude placement after a mastectomy at 81, heart bypass surgery at 84, and yes, a broken hip @ 86 as my brother and I acquiesed to her refusing LTC and cared for her at home.
Finally the bowel issue forced the decision and we had to override her desire to come home.
And you know what? It all worked out. She hated it but we had to balance her safety over her not well thought out wish to stay home.
H and SIL are on that road now. SIL is living in a dream world along with her mother.
That's the reality. Life goes on- the twins will be here soon, the sun will continue to rise and set, Summer begins today.
Stay strong but don't engage. Keep those convos short & superficial with the SIL. Update her on your daughter. When I was little and had a cat, we used to play with the cat with a string that had a little cheese at the end. The cat would pounce, I'd pull the string back - you get the gist here.
You are the cat now and your SIL/MIL have the cheese. Don't go for the bait.
You are doing great!!!
Chances of the MIL making Thursday's appointment? 50/50.
Speaking of stepping back and observing, it sounds to me (I could be wrong) that MIL is stirring the pot a bit. She is trying to get SIL to back off, but trying to draw your husband in to "rescue" her from dying, or to get you back in the loop. Fortunately, DH doesn't seem to be biting.
You're doing fine, Dorker!
I'm so sorry for your daughters' loss of their good friend; I"m glad that you're able to be there for both of them right now.
Today has been one heckuva day. Heavily pregnant daughter and her youngest sister, absolutely devastated at the news one of their good g'friends died in a car crash late last night. Inconsolable, both of them. So tragic. Such a sweet girl and she will be sorely missed.
But the morning started off with a phone call to H, from MIL. MIL wanting to inform H that when she had her wellness bedtime ck-in from her daughter last night. 2 things, she informed her daughter that she had called and cancelled the cardio appt scheduled for Tuesday. And that she had also mentioned to her daughter that H had come by with some leftovers from our party and had visited with her while she ate .. and SIL asked of MIL .. "Did he take a look at your swollen ankles, to see how they're looking". MIL answered no, he didn't. H says he did, but he doesn't make it a point to belabor, he glances as he talks with her, but he doesn't purposely walk over and lift her pant leg and do a visual examination per se .. just a cursory glance while talking with her, is about all you'll get out of him.
MIL wanting to report to H that he may hear from his sister today, as the news that he'd not made it a point to do a thorough examination of the ankle/foot situation caused her much dismay and she was pretty confounded. (SIL knows not to bark up his tree, she may have been confounded, but she'd find a way to calm down before climbing his frame, .. she knows better). MIL wanted to warn H that may be coming from his sister's corner, as well as the fact that when she informed her daughter she'd cancelled the cardio appt., this too had sent SIL reeling, . her words, "Now MOTHER .. I have to worry about that, why don't you keep the appt., and let them take a look at your feet/ankles". MIL's explanation to her daughter, this was a routine appointment, I see them every 3 to 4 mos,, just for a routine ck-in, I didn't feel it was necessary.
This explanation didn't suffice with SIL and she was most upset with her mother.
Surprisingly I didn't hear anything from SIL about it last night. But MIL calling H this morning to forewarn him that SIL may be blowing up HIS phone today with the above concerns.
However, as I told H .. her international travelers (son and family) arrive today .. and for the next 3 plus weeks, she will be so far underground with that agenda .. we won't hear from her. And that is typically what happens.
H then began to talk of .. his mother and he talk (this isn't new .. he has always gone and visited with her, as well as being the handyman fixer guy). Maybe not visiting as frequently as she would like, but he does do so, and always has. He does sit and talk with her, but unlike SIL . .it's not a whirlwind of neurotic nelly biz when he goes. They talk of "normal" stuff .. not all the "what if this, what if that .. " that neurotic nelly does.
He says of his mother, that she is so ready to go .. she wants to go on to her glory and from that home .. not from her daughter's home, not from a nursing home . or hospital .. from her home.
Don't we all. H does realize that we don't all get to pick our demise and she may not be that fortunate either. (he reports MIL hadn't taken her Lasix the day before .. the only reason I know of is the one I'm familiar with, her mobility issues and getting to and fro the potty so frequently). He didn't ask why, I presume that's why.
MIL has apparently talked at length with him, .. that we are all going to have to back up (I think she means her daughter, because her son surely doesn't needle her the way her daughter does). MIL likened it to the days when they had to make some decisions about her husband (their bio dad) .. that the hospital had stated they'd done all they could for him, and he would either need to go to Rehab from there, or Hospice, but the hospital no longer the setting for him. He was no more suited for a Rehab facility at that point than the man on the moon, barely verbal .. certainly not ambulatory at all. The decision was made, between siblings and MIL .. to bring him home, make him comfortable, call in Hospice.
She likened her situation to that . .in talks with H. That she is ready to go .. and all of this going to doctors and stalling off the end .. is similar to above (though she doesn't have anything particularly fatal going on with her).
H telling me, she is ready to go .. she wants to go. H also prefacing that with the realization that she may not get to choose her demise .. and that she .. if she continues the path of playing with the Lasix, she'll most certainly end up in a hospital, or worse.
SIL texted me sometime after H had left for work, informing me her international travelers would arrive within a couple of hours and that she does intend to, as best she can, .. keep calling her mom AM and PM . to ck in . and she went on to tell me that her mom had cancelled her cardio appt., much to her dismay, but that her mother imparted to her, it was just a routine ck up and not necessary .. and so she didn't feel she needed to go. SIL telling me she wishes she'd of gone .. and that she'd also asked of her last week, to step across the way to the primary care doc for a B12 at that same time, as well as some of the Probiotics she can get at the primary care doc. SIL's words: "I guess wishful thinking on my part that any of that would take place".
I then said, what I shouldn't of .. (someone who is supposed to be disengaging here, .. in retrospect .. I should've left it at, "enjoy your visitors, talk to ya later"). It would've been better if I'd of done that. I did impart to her some of what H said about his mother's wish to go on to that big cloud in the sky (as she calls it) and that she wants for all of us to back up .. and leave her be, with all this running to doctors all the time .. and that she and H really need to have a phone conversation wherein he can impart to her the things that MIL said to him.
SIL's response to that (and I knew right away .. that's what you get dumb a**, speaking of myself), .. her response: "That's interesting, .. she seems really upbeat when I speak to her and she even mentioned trying to come here in the Fall, as I've been after her to do ".
That's when I knew, that painful pang of .. back the h*ll up dumb sh&% ........... speaking of myself ... go bang your head some more on the brick wall.
Upbeat .. is certainly not at all what I would term what H describes to me in their conversations.
But SIL reports her to be upbeat and optimistic.
The bottom line is ... I'M OUT OF THIS ............... so I shouldn't of reported a d*mn thing said about any d*mn body ... and left it at that. I knew in an instant that I'd done myself no favors .. and wished I hadn't said a d*mn thing.
Maybe now .. maybe now that she will be so far underground with her family visiting .. and she truly won't really surface ... other than to ck in with her mom a couple of times a day, but generally when she has her family in town .. she doesn't surface.
Maybe, just maybe now .. I can finally learn to just stay the he*ll out of it all. COMPLETELY.
"Detaching will enable you to do the following:
Observe the relationship dynamics objectively
See who is responsible for the problems in the relationship
Choose how you want to act instead of automatically reacting
Prevent you from becoming a part of the dysfunction dynamic"
from changemyrelationship.com/relationship-changing-principles/detach-with-love
I am not saying it is easy watching what is happening. However, there comes a point where we need to back off emotionally for our survival. You are doing the right things. Good luck.
Grandparenting is grand!
Keep us up to date on how things work out. :)
As much as my heartstrings are tugged at with the deteriorating situation with MIL and I do feel the pangs of "guilt" on occasion, it is very clear to me that MIL has choices she opts not to avail herself of, for her own reasons. Can't say as much for dd and g'daughter and twins. Dd didn't ask for twins .. in fact, .. that came as a complete shock, there are no twins anywhere .. unless you go back about 4 generations. All of dd's friends work, and so aren't available to pitch in and help .. and g'daughter certainly didn't ask for a mommy that is less than firing on all cylinders at this point and she d*mn sure has no options, g'daughter doesn't. Nor do the twins. MIL DOES HOWEVER!
I can't imagine the anger and frustration I would feel had I not released the above in favor of what I am presently doing. To be traipsing all over the city in continual fools errands on that front .. all the while MIL refuses to avail herself otherwise and SIL wrings her hands from afar as I jump through hoop after hoop, all the while my daughter who is so miserable at this point in the pregnancy and a g'daughter that doesn't, at this point, have a fully functional mommy .. I would be so resentful. I have made the right choice. Not a single doubt about that.
Mommy will get her footing with twins and a 4 yo .. no doubt about that, and I will then back away and be the g'ma that gets to "enjoy" when I want .. which is what g'parenting is all about. It's GRAND.
Doesn't make it easy to sit in the audience and watch the oncoming train wreck though.
You look after you and your family - now and later. Once dd has the twins and has recovered and gotten into a routine DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT become available to sil and mil again - ever. You deserve to enjoy your life and be free of these games. Any guilt you are feeling is called false guilt - which comes from not meeting the (often unrealistic) expectations of others. You are doing nothing wrong and have no reason to feel guilty. Narcs push the guilt buttons to get attention. It is their game. Practice not responding when they do. Limit texts etc. with sil more and more. She will find another source of attention, as will mil.
I trust your daughter stays well and the new babes are awesome. The 4 yr old is going to need grandma's attention with all that competition. Have fun!
And if they find protein, they will want her to get to the hospital right away, which is why you need to be on 24/7 call. You need to be well rested, well hydrated and not stressed about stubborn elders.
I believe they are looking for protein in the urine, which can be a marker for preeclampsia.
Twins on the way! Awesome!
While OB/GYN is not my specialty as a RN, my guess is her providers won't let her go much farther. If she was hypertensive mid pregnancy they won't risk eclampsia. I don't know what they'd be checking for with a 24 hr urine collection - protein, meconium, glucose? They are so advanced these days with deliveries she will have healthy babies. They can survive now out of the womb.
How exciting!
As far as MIL she has a lifeline device to use if she takes a spill thank goodness.
Agree with not telling SIL. You don't need the added stress. Good thing hubs is on board.
It will happen sooner or later for sure.
She won't be the one who loses dearly....she'll go to a nice AL where her meals will be provided, housekeeping, etc & cared for. The rocky road is getting her there.
Not unexpected, at least on the first issue. Daughter at doc today (has 3 appts weekly now) to be followed in these last days of the pregnancy. Her B/P is elevated and they are watching closely. She developed HBP about mid-term, and was put on meds. She is at the end of the pregnancy at this point, . .will be 36 weeks end of this week. No, they aren't yet talking of taking the babies, .. but that could come, sooner rather than later. They wanted to keep her o'nite .. monitor B/P .. and they want to do some kind of 24 hour urine catch on her, to look for protein ..???..... But I guess they felt it safe for her to go home, . with the assurance she would report any alarming BP and that she would rest. She is to see them again tomorrow, and report B/P's she's taken in the interim . and will do the 24 hour urine catch.
I've had the 4 yo (she's not quite 4) all day ... so that her mommy can adequately rest. I would imagine that will be the case daily going forward here. I will have the g'daughter, if not all day, most of the day .. most days. I've had .. a lot of days, the 4 yo and some of those days . .both the 4 yo and the mommy (my daughter) so that mommy can kick back and I can do the steppin and fetchin for her. But I suspect it's about to get a lot stickier here with it all, for a little while, til the babies get here, and then a different set of circumstances to deal with for a while.
Am confident and grateful she is in good hands with her MD team ... they are watching her closely. Babies are monitored via non-stress tests each visit and thus far, they are fine.
The daddy came and got the 4 yo and he will take her home and be responsible for her in the evenings so mommy doesn't have to step and fetch.
On the other front. Didn't know this latest. I was talking with son in law (in H's presence) as he'd come to pick up the 4 yo. He, son in law, talking of the aged/frail in his family (a 92 yo step-grandfather who has recently been placed in Hospice, but from there ...??....into a nursing home ..??.....) that whole scene. We began talking some about MIL and that situation, which he is fully aware of. That's when H chimed in, "Well I'm going to tell you something (talking to me) because I trust you won't say anything to my worry wart sister". I said, "Your mother has fallen, right?". He said, "yep".
Apparently when he'd forgone his church activities on Saturday to go take a look at the swollen ankle/foot issue. There .. he found his mother with a contusion/bruise/scrape on her arm. She'd fallen the day before. He isn't sure, .. fell completely/fell into but recovered before falling completely, he doesn't know. But into the shower door (glass).
She apparently made him promise not to tell his sister (the neurotic Nancy). I happen to agree with that stance, only because MIL isn't going to do anything any differently than has been done .. and that will only send the Neurotic Nancy into the stratosphere of worry, from afar. No, I'm not phoning Neurotic Nancy either. This was told to me in confidence by H, him having assured his mother he would keep it in confidence.
Son in law asked, "what are you guys going to do, you know it's just a matter of time before she takes a nasty fall".
H's answer .. "she has fallen several times and not yet gotten severely injured, but it's coming ... and I guess, that's when she's going to lose the independence she so covets .. that's all I can say".
The synopsis of the whole conversation in the end, his agreement that his mother is being horribly stubborn and that in the end, it's probably going to cost her dearly.
I'm not doing anything about it, .. not phoning SIL .. not phoning MIL to ask if she's alright .. and so forth. She has taken spills before (as H said, and none terribly serious .. not yet .. but it's coming) ... and she always says what she'd say if I called her, "I know that I must be so very careful not to fall, I had reached for ________________(fill in the blank, have heard it all before) and I lost my footing, but I know that I have to be so very careful and I will be".
No need to even go there in discussion on it. As H said, she's not going to do anything any differently.
Shane1124: SIL did, when she was last here for her latest tour of duty (3 weeks, she was here), she met with the local elder resource social worker. The result of said meeting was that the info would be forwarded to the powers that be and what services MIL qualifies for, will be listed and provided. Doesn't seem like SIL is chomping at the bitt to get to that end result. Likely that is because MIL .. (and I know this to be a fact, I am 100% accurate) .. MIL doesn't want "said" services. She will do it herself, remember, she knows what she needs to do and she will do it. Yes, I have mentioned there is a medical transport service for people who have no way to get to and fro doc appts .. MIL thinks that is absolutely about the worst thing she can imagine, that she'd have to be picked up and brought to a doc appointment. "Those are all *old people* that have to depend on that kinda thing, I an do this, I know what I need to do and I will do it". That is her approach on that topic.
AND ..........
As SIL said last night, at her *several times a day* attempt at guilting me into taking up the torch to run with it and lead the charge at getting her mom to and fro, and any number of other fools errands ... SIL's words: "I hate it she wont' let the neighbor take her to that doc appointment on Tuesday .. I wish she'd let us ask her .. or ask her herself, .. she just hates the thought of that ... I guess, for her, .. maybe it's worse with someone you know, having someone you know help you with health stuff. Maybe if we can ever hear back from that elder resource group, maybe they can provide a stranger to transport her". She went on to say that she has a neighbor who is fighting cancer, has to have regular chemo and too weak to get there on her own. SIL has volunteered to take her, and the neighbor opts for the medical transport from the doc's office to come get her instead. Some people are just very private, she says. Her point being, (as she tries to guilt me), that MIL finds it difficult to rely on people she knows (friends/neighbors) and feel as though she is a burden to them.
The part she said about maybe when the elder resource group makes their determination, maybe she will qualify for their services and MIL will find it easier that a stranger help her. I didn't argue with SIL (I've been this route far too many times). I know (see above), MIL wants nothing to do with medical transport bus/van via the city or county. "That's for old people". Not going to even go there with SIL and go the full gamut only to arrive full circle back at square 1. Which is precisely what the result would be. MIL still refusing outside help, insisting she will do it herself, SIL wringing her hands, guilting me, me suggesting alternatives that neither find suitable. No point. I didn't even mention any of it.
Blackhole: SIL was just here. It's been just over two weeks since she left. And it was SIL that initiated all of this "vein work" that MIL had done. She, hauling MIL back and forth for same. So, she does have an idea of the traffic and road construction in the area in question. She is right, it's a bit of a problem, that whole area. But not such a problem that makes it not doable. SIL would have it that I take the ball and run with it, of course. Not doing it though. MIL says she can manage, .. let her. And you have got it down pat, with the whole "she would fall to her knees with the requisite platitudes". That is absolutely point-on accurate. She would say all the right things, but then come up with the myriad of other "to-dos" (fools errands) that I can now satisfy to help her to rest easy that her mother is being looked after in her absence here. All while they fail to realize what I've said all along .. I am not available, I have other priorities right now, you guys need to make a backup plan. All that would be shelved, daughter in law here, hopping to .. all is well with the world.
Not going to happen that way.
If this will be her first appt. without you, then SIL will get the update. One more step removed from the loop for you -- hurray!
Try not to engage the SIL too long. Keep those texts brief, to the point, and focused.
What's that phrase from The "Godfather"- "Just when I think I am out, they pullll me back in!" (Michael Corleone, lol).
That is their goal here, Ms D.
I know it's hard and heartbreaking but you've provided warning. Recommend to your SIL she call your county office on aging to get an application for the Senior bus. The MIL will be picked up and driven home from her appts curb to curb as long as she can get to the curb. It may be good socialization for her as well, she will see people on that bus with much greater needs and better attitudes than herself and she may realize she's not the only fish in the pond. Or she may not, her choice.
Ask your SIL on one of her 3 calls a day (ridiculous btw) to remind your MIL to elevate her feet when she's sitting and to take that Lasix. Non negotiable.
Glad your party was nice! Great way to celebrate H bday & Father's Day.
And yet the martyr stayed home, too bad. Her choice.
Wondering did either SIL or MIL call or send a card to wish H Happy Birthday? The big 6-0?
Have fun with your granddaughter today.
Stay strong! It's not over as long as they can tug at your sense of guilt (which is perfectly normal), but if your MIL can choose not to be "able" to attend your party yesterday you are allowed to tend to your needs as well.
Hang in there, Sister! Stay Strong but disengage!
And SIL would not fall to her knees with gratitude if you dropped everything to carry out her neurotic orders. She would say thank you (a social convention) in a gushy blab-fest manner (cuz her favorite sound is the sound of her own voice). Then she'd immediately start formulating her next litany of "to-do"s for you. Based on every what-if she can conjure.
Keep up the good boundaries, Dorker! And no guilt. SIL's and MIL's defective coping skills are THEIR problem. Not yours.
The party yesterday was a huge success, H enjoyed it thoroughly, and that was the objective. Father's Day combination Bday .. and loved ones who were able to attend, did so. MIL did not. H did call her early afternoon, to ask if she'd reconsidered, and her answer was that she just isn't able to do it.
She reported to him, when he asked about her ankle/foot .. that it was looking better when she awakened, but by mid morning (her up and about) .. it had begun to swell again.
I don't know what he advised, if anything. I was kinda busy (lol).
By last night, .. (those guilt texts, they just keepa'comin). SIL texted late last night, to ask how her brother's party went and who came. Responded on that .. she expressed that she wished they could be here to attend also. She then went into telling me (what I already knew via H) .. that her mom reports the foot swelling increases when she is up and about .. as she has to be, .. her dog needs out .. her dog needs in .. her dog needs water/food .. she has to get up to do what she needs to do for herself. Just "life".
I responded, "that's what I heard".
She expressed worry prefaced with, "Hopefully she can get to that cardio appt on Tuesday and they can take a look at it".
I responded: "I'm sure they will have some input".
(I am reading .. guilting here ... she would absolutely fall to her knees in gratitude if she heard me say the words, "gee, I'm concerned, maybe we need to put in a call to that vein doc .. and get her seen tomorrow", ............ or .............."yea I know it's going to be a real struggle for her, let me move some things around on my end, .. I'm sure I can accommodate getting her to that cardio doc".
THAT, is what she wants to hear from me.
She did not, and won't. Remember, .. MIL's words .. "I know what I have to do here and I will do it, I will manage".
THIS, is what her "managing" is going to look like, and maybe worse if the status quo continues. It ain't pretty, but it is what it is .. the choice SHE makes as to her own well being.
I am absolutely sure that is what SIL would like, .. that I would step up in all of this .. and alleviate her concern from 1K miles away and take the torch and run with it.
I have .. over the last 14 years ... moved my world around and heaven and earth .. to try to accommodate the situation. A situation that is worsening .. (as it will with elderly/frail folks). And, of course, now that my radar has some other pressing matters, yes indeed .. how selfish of both of them, to not address that accordingly, and now try to "guilt" me into stepping into the fray.
It's not going to happen.
Sometimes it's harder and heartbreaking for me, and does pull at my heart ... but then I get on here and read from those who've walked this path . and the reassurance and cheering section as to what my objective is here, and it steels my resolve to stay the course.
SIL went on to express that she worries ... "have I ever seen this happen before with MIL".
I responded: "No, I haven't .. but again .. she's been advised countless times that Lasix should be on board daily .. not *as needed* as she prefers to do .... and so that may be complicating matters, I'm not really sure".
I went on to say to SIL (critical here, as to my releasing all this .. and her hopefully seeing that in my words) ... "if you guys are real concerned about it, maybe she needs to call that vein doc and see about getting in there tomorrow".
SIL answered, "the doc she sees .. she only works in that specific office on Tuesdays .. and she can't get to that other office, the traffic and road construction in that area is just horrendous it'd be too difficult for her to do that, .. and as you know she already has an appt on Tuesday with the cardio doc, there'd be no way she could make two appointments in one day .. on Tuesday".
GUILTING ............. clear and present ......... GUILTING.
How nice it would be for SIL .. and for MIL ........... if old daughter in law here . would drag along 4 yo (which I do have today) ... and make sure that I go pick up MIL and get her seen .. even if it's at that location that's so horrid to get to, that MIL can't manage it.
Not doing it.
Guilting me .. absolutely for sure.
My answer to the above: "I'm sure they staff with other physicians there that can take a look at the situation .. maybe not the specific physician she is familiar with, but I suppose if she's that concerned about it .. that's maybe what she'd have to do".
SIL then responded, (having gotten nowhere with me): "We'll just stick to the plan that she has to see the cardio doc for her routine appointment on Tuesday and hope she can get there .. and maybe they can provide some input on it all .. that's all we can do right?".
I said, "sounds like it, yes .... I gotta get to bed, tired .. been a long day, good nite".
And with that, I didn't respond to any further texts from her.
There were a few .. she did respond with telling me good nite, and that she is hoping and praying that our daughter's pregnancy continues to progress along without event .. (I didn't see any of it til this morning .. having walked away from the cell phone after having said g'nite).
I'm sure it is worrisome to them both, (it is to me) that this foot swelling thing .. apparently isn't getting better with Lasix on board ... I'm sure it is a valid concern. But so are the millions of other things that crop up .. every other day with the care and concern of an aged/frail mother.
As others have said here, their failure to adequately address that .. isn't then incumbent upon me, any longer, to resolve for them.
This is really good to remember! If MIL has a true crisis, she will end up hospitalized, right? And then she will get the care that she needs (care that she isn't getting now, because she is so stubborn). No need for guilt!
She may be unhappy, and her children may be unhappy because she's unhappy, but that is not the priority here, is it? You are not concerned with her maintaining her magical thinking that she's "independent," but rather that her health needs are being met.