I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
I will still be helping out during the day hours, as needed. But want to back up enough at this point to give dd the space/time she needs to get her bearings with it all, as best she can.
Helped her all day today .. as they put the final touches on unpacking and making beds, etc etc., to take up residency there. Stayed on the scene there to help and mind babies. And tomorrow will be much the same, doctor appts, etc.
No word on the MIL front, and that's likely because SIL is underground caring for and enjoying her own family 1K miles away. It's been great.
I am beyond exhausted. There is a reason God gives babies to young folks. Enjoy those babies thoroughly, but between them and the 4 yo, I am dragging tired.
Maybe now that my household is back to it's normalcy .. I can get a little more rest. I hope.
Try to get a good night's sleep. You have to be rested to take all this on.
In the meantime you can review the great suggestions above and get a plan together for yourself to get through it, which you will, of course.
So far so good these past few days with her (MIL) But it isn't over by no means!
Hang in there but brace for some opposition arriving on the horizon.
I would go to dd house with the new babies and the little one for a few weeks. She needs you especially as she can't lift due to the c-section.
So what's my choice. Keep throwing teaspoons of water at a raging fire, as was previously mentioned. Or keep b*tching and griping (that does no good). What's my choice? I have to back away.
I don't for a minute, think it will be a cake walk. I'm almost sorry at this point that I was the dependable "go to" for so so long. Shouldn't of been. It looks as though all that did was set up expectation that as need increases, I will continue to increase the contributions. That is false.
Yes, I'm absolutely certain I will hear .. more than once ... some version of, "you know I'm too busy for this crap, I don't have time for this".
Or
"Don't you love my mom?".
Yes, for sure.
I don't know what choice I have here, other than continue to be the indentured servant to this problem that is growing in need.
I have to back away and doing that, .. and just saying "no", .. it will, for sure, result in some argument here. Not looking forward to it.
What I'm saying is that YOU are being triangulated.
Example. SIL texts you that MIL needs x, something you know won't work. You pass her off to DH, who responds to this " need" ( perceived only by sil, we all know mil will refuse to use it) by asking YOU to acquire said item.
You say no.
DH responds, why not?
You say no. Just no.
DH explodes, "don't you love my mother? " Or
"I don't have time for this $hit. Don't I bring in the money? Why aren't you being a team player and helping?"
I think you are going to end up in an uncomfortable situation down he road when you are being put in the position of saying "no" to your husband. Just my two cents.
Won't do me any good to then be texting H and "can you believe your sister wants me to do ____________ and ____________, no ... I told her to call you".
Will have to work on my own NOT doing that. He either hears from her and chooses to respond or not. Not on me whether "perceived" need is met or not.
This time, it is NOT your mother. You cannot decide this- your H & his sister must. Your H doesn't have patience or time for this?
Well, that's too darned bad. It's your husband's to own this, he and his sister. And the sooner the better. He needs to step up & work it out with his family- mom, sister & him.
Oh I dread when SIL is back en force texting. It's going to be hard for you. Maybe you can begin practicing. But you can give responses quoted above - " I can't " & no need to explain.
Stand your ground. The H can do it - push him to do it on his own. Encourage them to work together and get a plan.
If you were only doing this with ocd sil and martyr mil, it would be relatively easy. But this is your marriage were talking about.
If you think hubby is going to guilt you over this and try to dump his sister's and mother's needs in your lap, I'd say you'd be wise to get some professional support.
I left a job (not to say I can't find another one), about 2 years ago (it was an awful job .. one I loathed). My workdays were 10 hour days .. and my days off were Wed, Thurs, and Sunday. I was spending my days off, not even kidding, in persuit of MIL's doc visits and her well being. Not always, that would've been absolutely preposterous. But yes, a lot of times, .. I'd find myself on my days off .. Wed and Thurs .. having to haul her to doc appts, and/or some other errand, or five.
That isn't the reason I quit that job .. I hated that job. I quit it because I hated it. BUT ... also because my husband needed my help with his business (found that a lot of times on my days off .. I would be doing for the business, the office stuff), stuff I couldn't do on a normal workday for me. He needed my help in the business and so we made the decision that I would quit that job . Get another job? That was a .. wait and see how it all works.
It has worked. I think that, in general .. H likes it that he can call upon me, .. pretty much at will, for something biz related (couldn't do that when I was working previously, I was on the company dime at that point, not his). I like the flexibility that I have working for our small biz. There are things I'm responsible to do, but I can do them, for the most part, when it works for me.
No H doesn't give me any weekly allowance per se. I kinda do the budget and finances for our biz and household, so if I spend us into the ditch .. then it's on me. So, there wouldn't be any withholding of "allowances".
But he would definitely be putting me on a guilt trip .. with the whole, "You know I have e-d*mn-nough to do .. I don't have time for this chit". Sorta thing. As to his mother's bidding, via his sister. That's about where that lands.
Can you....? "No, I'm not able to".
Why not? "unfortunately I do not have time but I'm sure Amazon would deliver for your mom".
Why are you being like this? "I have my daughter and grandkids who need me"
Why can't you just do this? "you will have to work with H on that"
Hang up.
stuff you have already stated. You do NOT need to justify yourself. It took me a good six months, therapy, and role play with the therapist before I successfully set a boundary with my mom. I was giddy with joy and said "no" at every opportunity - just like a toddler. My husband caught on and used it with his overbearing parents. We finally were able to set and enforce boundaries.
Yes, some conversations were ridiculous.
"why not?" "I just can't"
"I'm asking you why not" "I told you I'm not able to, I have to go now" and hang up.
disengaging is how you will win - end the call, leave the room, don't get into it.
I upset my mom with all of the "gotta go now, love you" and leaving or hanging up - but eventually she learned. So did my husband's parents.
We still do some things for them, but it is our choice!
What does that mean? That you "have" to do any fool's errand his OCD sister sends you on? Does he yell and scream? Withhold your weekly allowance?
I'd DEFINITELY be looking for a job.......
Why are you explaining yourself? Just because they've always gotten an explanation from you does not mean they are entitled to it.
And if at first you do feel the need to give a reason, have fun with it!
"I have to wash my hair."
"I'm taking a knitting class."
"I'm volunteering at a nursing home."
"I'm training for a marathon."
No.
But you can't just say no like that! You have to have a reason! Mother needs these! Why won't you help?
It is absurd. The answer is "no."
It's better than her falling.
I'm not getting these things. The answer is 'no.'
etc etc etc
No.
The answer is no.
I'm saying no.
You will eventually hear [wailing] WHY ARE YOU BEING LIKE THIS???
At that point you must remember, as we discussed previously, that your SIL is most unused to dissent and it has come as a shock to her. Make allowances.
Say: I have come to my senses. Try not to worry, everything will be fine. I'll talk to you later.
To say "no", nothing further. Just "no".
It gets followed with "why not?". Therein lies all the justifying and arguing the point. If one can just say merely "no", and the requester then walks away, fine and good. But it doesn't happen that way. Not when you have been the front line to it all for eons.
It's followed with a "why not".
Yes, I have an uphill battle in front of me, for sure!
"I think of the dog diapers I was sent to get."
And then I sat and stared at the wall for a bit. Then I read it again, and the rest of the episode.
Dorker. For me, the equivalent low point was when my (ex, note) husband insisted that I taste our toddler's banana. It was a nice banana, undamaged, just ripe, and I had that moment peeled it. Not good enough - he insisted that it had to be tasted, to be certain it wasn't poisoned or rotten, but for some reason - not sure we even got this far - it wasn't proper for him to taste it and it had to be me.
Yeah, my story is completely bonkers too, isn't it.
The dog diapers you were sent to get. Under protest, and - in God's name - with all reason on your side. And you still went to get the [expletive deleted] things.
Your SIL is an accomplished arm-twister, I'll give her that. You are going to have to get in some serious training to win this battle.
So while we've got some time in hand, try some practice phrases. Starting with:
"No."
You say no, and then you *shut* *up*. You don't argue. You don't justify. You don't elaborate. You say "no." And you mean it.
Rehearse this, using scenes from earlier times, until it starts to feel natural.
I don't even know, (and it's kind of nice actually) what the problem du jour may be with MIL today or yesterday, or tomorrow for that matter. You can bet, if SIL weren't covered up in entertaining her own family, I would know (or has been the case in the past). I would know every little hiccup that has occurred over the days .. as well as every anticipation of need that may or may not be necessary (deemed by SIL as to its relevance).
H has not had to ride that train. His sister has been busy with her own family, and hasn't been burning up the phone here, with "need".
I haven't yet gotten any practice at the whole, "gee better talk to H about that, can't help ya there". Her company will leave in a couple of weeks and I'm sure she'll take minute to catch her breath and then is when I will have to plaster those words on my forehead and say them often. Deferring to H.
Yes, it will be very hard, if not near impossible for me to remain silent. Being that I was, for so long, such an integral part of the whole scene. To just divorce myself completely and remain silent, seems uncaring, and that's not at all what any of this is about.
I asked H this morning ... "Have you talked to your mom since she was so overwrought about ______________being sick?, is she still on that whole thought process". He said no, he hadn't spoken to her. I left it alone. In this realm, it would be uncharacteristic of me to not even ask of her well being.
H may in passing mention, "sounds like mom needs me to go out there and look at ________________ it seems like it's not working right". That would be about typical.
Where the water hits the wheel here is going to be when his sister is free to once again blow up the phone(s) with need (her perception of need). And that then gets deferred to H. There is where I am going to have to get some real practice in deferring and I intend to do so.
It's as it should be. I, being an in-law .. shouldn't even be in the position of arguing a point with SIL as regards her mother (as to perceived need/vs want vs her worry/anguish over a given situation). The child-gate for instance. That should be between he and his sister.
It will get interesting, that's a given. H doesn't have time to answer to the incessant texting that goes on, nor is he prone to do so if he does have the time. He just isn't.
Every bit the worry-wart, teeth gnashing, hand wringing that his sister is, he is the opposite.
I think of the dog diapers I was sent to get. I argued the point with SIL (it was her worry about it). I argued the point, "the dog lets her know that he needs to get out, and for God's sake, the dog can be isolated .. he's having problems that he is urinating incessantly .. put the dog out into the b'yard more frequently .. and leave him, he will live, make sure there is water for the dog .. that takes care of her having to get up and down to let the dog in and out .. and the fact that she's so slow .. that she can't get there in time .. the dog let's her know, it's not that he's incontinent .... with her arthritic hands, I'm not even sure she can do what she needs to put a diaper on the dog anyway. She can put the dog to bed, at night, in her shower.
All things MIl was unwilling to do.
But I can jump through the hoop of going to get doggy diapers, ... that she likely won't even be able to put on the dog, and are useless.
All points above, that I argued, with SIL.
SIL's rebuttal .. "well if he has doggie diapers on, maybe if she can't get him to the door fast enough, at least there won't be a soiled floor for her to clean, I worry that she's going to fall .. you know she can barely stay upright, much less stooping over to clean urine off the floor.
This was all months back when her dog was so sick.
I then argued, .. "I'm sure the vet would be willing to board him as long as need be, until this can be resolved, if it's a concern she's going to fall".
Argument from SIL: "No, OMG .. if she doesn't have her little buddy there with her, .. she'll just curl up and die .. you know, he's like a baby to her .. that's her companion".
Off I went, to Petsmart, to go buy doggie diapers and haul them out to her. Doggie diapers are purchased by weight of the dog. I knew the dog weighs about 30 lbs give or take. But what I didn't account for was the fact that the dog is small .. but 30 lbs (overweight for his size dog). And so the 30 lb size, didn't fit his girth. Back to Petsmart, and then back out to MIL's with a larger size doggie diaper.
In the end, the bag sat un-used. I showed her how to do it, by putting one on him .. and demonstrating how it's done. She wasn't able to do so, her arthritic hands being the impediment to same. They never got used, as I said they wouldn't.
The above, would be a very interesting conversation were it to have been between H and his sister. I don't know for certain, but I would just about bet that he wouldn't entertain the notion of going to purchase doggie diapers. He damn sure wouldn't of dropped everything to do so, even if he did agree to such a premise. And when he got there and found the size doesn't fit the dog, that would've been the end of that story. I don't know, can't even imagine, what he'd of offered as an alternative, if any, to allay his sister's anguish over it all.
These and so many more conversations, it will be interesting to be the fly on the wall to how H reacts.
I do know his "go to" move will be, "My sister is texting me .. something about doggie diapers and the dog urinating everywhere, can you get ahold of her, and see what it is she's talking about, maybe it's something you can take care of for mom".
When he hears back from me, "Already deferred that to you, not doing it".
Then there will be a p*ssing match, if you will. "Why not?, .. she is out there stooping over and so forth to clean up dog urine off the floor and she's going to fall doing that, .. just go do it ... maybe it will help alleviate all of that".
My argument, "It's senseless, .. she isn't going to use them, her arthritic hands won't allow it .. and the dog lets her know ... and it's been my advice that she isolate the dog more than she's been willing to do, no .. I'm not doing it, you want the dog to have doggie diapers to alleviate the concern, go for it".
That's when H will likely get ugly with me ... not his mother .. not his sister .. me. Why me? Because I'm the path of least resistance. His sister will harangue til the "task" at hand is seen to, his mother will complain incessantly that she is so weary and so tired, and just past the point of going with this dog that is ill .. and so the path of least resistance will be the one that gets the wrath for it.
Honest to Pete .. I'm not looking for a fight, I'm not looking to be "right".
This, to me, is just one of many many numerous examples (albeit a small one/minor) of the fallacy of "independent living". Where her so called "independent living" has to be propped up. Just a very minor small one, . of so so many.
Myself, I am able/willing .. if I owned a dog .. and the dog were having these problems, I could .. if I so chose, .. make my way to the pets store and get doggie diapers .. if that's what I chose to do. I wouldn't be "dependent" upon some one else to make that happen for me. I am "independent".
In my estimation of the whole scenario above .. the onus shouldn't be on someone else (me) to help resolve this. The MIL should be willing to do what is necessary as in isolate the dog more, and/or pay for boarding the dog until the dog is better.
THAT to me is "independent", resolving it yourself.
It's such a minor blip .. that whole scenario on the larger screen of what goes on.
Unfortunately, it gets turned into, or it will, some scenario that is similar .. a p*ssing match, a power struggle. Seen as "oh because she won't do things YOUR way .. then you aren't going to help".
No, .. that isn't it at all. It's a matter that this is one of a million other things that prop up what you guys refer to as her latitude to live independently and it's not, at all, independent. But it's all fine and good as long as I will keep hopping to the beat of that drum.
Not looking forward to it.
Tired today .. maybe frazzled. The newborns have come to life, as they will, and at night. Days/nights confused maybe. I don't do the night feedings, wee hours of the AM .. that's between dd and her husband to figure out. But that doesn't mean I don't hear the cries of the newborns through the night. Seems they crank up and get fussy long about 11 or so .. and on it goes from there.
They are, dd and her husband, to go tonight, to the new residence, and begin taking a stab at, nightly, is their plan .. getting things out of boxes and put away where they belong and getting some semblance of order and organization to what will be their home, so they can then head that way. Leaving the kids with us, so they can take a few hours nightly, going forward, to get things moving in the direction to set up their household.
I love them all dearly and this time with the newborns is absolutely precious and great memories. But it is also very taxing. The 4 yo .. more whiney and cranky than she normally would be (understandable, . .. she's uprooted from where she knew as home, has two new siblings to contend with where she was formerly the star of the show .. and a mommy that is less than stellar these days as to stepping with it). But she is cranky, and whiney these days .. maybe she too, sleep disturbed. I wouldn't trade any of it, for anything. But it is taxing, for certain.
As long as you are viewed this way by your husband:
"H looked in my direction and said, "Says the wicked witch of the west .... ", speaking of me."
You will not be at peace so please try to move in with your daughter for a week to help her. That way, you won't hear anything about Mil for a week. Once you experience that space, the battle your Mil is waging against her son's wife
will be exposed for lack of an enemy.
You've told them you are not running around anymore.
You've told them you think she needs more help.
Just step back. No need to comment on anything. The less you speak about mil, the more it becomes about MIL's needs and not you being right.
They are both in denial, Dorker.
I don't think there is much more you can do except wait for the catastrophe. Is H even aware of AL facilities in your area? I bet not.
I think it would be really hard for Dorker not to comment about the MIL at all; not sure it's do-able for you, Dorker. You have been their voice of reason all along but they haven't heard you.
Hard call, but I would stay the course, be polite with the H & SIL but stick to your principles.
Maybe go on the internet and research local AL, go on their websites and put your H & SIL on the AL mailing list so they get phamphlets they can review?
I would continue to dis -engage. The siblings need to stop wishing this will all go away and/or solve itself (didn't I read dying in her sleep in her own bed at home would be nice?). That's what the sibs are wishing for. In the meantime, no one is doing anything to solve this problem now that you have stepped out.
They are going to wait for you to step back in after the dd gets settled.
H & SIL keep chasing rainbows and MIL is calling the shots, watching her kids jump to her commands.
MIL is their mother, bottom line.
They need to do the stepping up, not you.
Stay strong!!! You are doing great!
You can't get DH to " put his foot down" with his mom. You can only say " no, I can't go to vet/petsmart/groomer/healthfoodstore/".
My 87 yo ex-mil adopted a new dog the other day. She still lives independently and drives. All of her kids think the new dog is a dreadful idea, but there is no telling her no.
The only one you can change is you.
But D. The thing is. You have over the years done sooooooo much for MIL that you are terribly out of practice at letting it go.
The dog, the dog. You have supported her in caring for her present dog. You can't and will not do that any more. You've said so. You've bow-wowed out, so to speak. Your next challenge is to close your ears to all further pet-related discussion. If H hasn't the sense to recognise that his mother can't cope as a dog-owner any more; if God forbid he's even fool enough to get her one... - but it doesn't matter. WHATEVER happens down the line, it is not your doing and not your problem.
When it comes to MIL's support services, you are from now on only a spectator. Work on it.
But nerves are on edge here, .. tired, .. houseful of folks, etc. Knew it would be this way .. and it is temporary .. but it can be taxing.
Yesterday .. son in law said .. (MIL was the topic of discussion at that moment), .. son in law said to H .. "what are you guys going to do when that dog dies .. you know she'll outlive that dog, what are you guys going to do?".
H didn't answer. I chimed in, "she'll probably go out and get another dog, .. ", I looked at H and said "You need to put your foot down if that occurs and tell her no, .. she cannot get another dog, she struggles to take care of the one she has".
H looked in my direction and said, "Says the wicked witch of the west .... ", speaking of me.
Of course that would be my take. How many times H have you gone to pick up dog food, gotten online to order the numerous meds her dog takes, .. taken her dog to the groomer ... taken her dog to the vet, communicated with the vet on her behalf at her behest ... on said issue . gone to Petsmart for her .. or taken her, .. how many times H.
Oh that's right zero ... zero times.
No I didn't say that, wasn't interested in a fight, .. particularly over something that isn't even happening.
But that sums it up so succinctly. I try to provide input, and in my mind, should be allowed the latitude to do so, since all the above, .. has very much, time and time again, been placed on my agenda to handle ..
But I try to provide input and that remarks is the rebuttal. "Says the wicked witch of the west".
Uhm .. okay.
I didn't let it be the source of contention, as I said, nerves are frayed here, .. we have a houseful of souls here .. one of which is dd's unruly dog ... but two newborns that are precious, but demanding. A 4 yo .. that is also a bit whiney and needy at times, .. and a dd that is getting better, but it's going to take time. And them with their move .. to another household, and that move now complete as to the contents of previous home having been brought to where they will now reside. But nothing has been done thus far, as to the sorting and putting things away at the new residence .. that remains to be done yet.
Nerves frayed here, so I didn't argue or get upset. But that just so .. that's the synopsis of about the end result of any input that I try to provide. Not always met with a remark that is less than friendly, usually .. met with being ignored, and or a bunch of "but this, but that".
There's a whole bunch of folks on here with stubborn elders who are their own worst enemies. You can tell the elder that the disaster is coming, but if they won't avail themselves of help, you really just have to sit back and wait.
One frequent poster here, parents in their 90s, wouldn't accept hired help, expected 70 you daughter to change light bulbs, do yard work, play chaffeur..... she finally just backed off and said "no, I cant". Her mom, predictably fell, would go to rehab, wouldn't accept in home help, fell again and sustained a mortal head injury.
Don't nag sil or husband. They can't force mil to do anything. The only one you can change is you. You just say "no".