I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
If she wishes no more schlepping to Dr appointments, that's the ticket.
But there is an intermediate step.
My mom, with chf, anxiety , MCI, went to Indepedent Living and had a great two years. There was a doc in the complex she could see without a problem.
MiL's current issue is her rigidity. SHe thinks she know what the choices are but she doesn't.
It's very sad. I'm hoping that someone talking to get about palliaative/hospice may spark the conversation.
Good luck! Signing out. BB
THEN .. SIL breezes her way back on to her home .. and things slide off the cliff, time and again. You pegged it precisely.
Either she is UNABLE to care for herself, or won't .. doesn't care to. I don't know which it is .. but the end result is the same. That inevitable slide off the cliff.
THUS my assertion to the offspring, she needs more supervised care, .. she needs to be in AL (which was my original thought on it all). Of course, I might as well have howled at the moon. Fell on deaf ears in every corner.
All the while, we've had how many slides off the cliff ... ???.....
They continue, the cycle repeats .. UNLESS ...............SIL is here singing that song .. and dancing that beat .. and MIL is fine and dandy. So which is it, .. does MIL wish to live .. as long as someone will move in and take over (which she says she loathes .. when SIL comes and does everything but breathe for her .. MIL's words). Or does she wish to be left the hell alone, and quit going to all these docs, procedures and pills shoved at her .. which is it?
I wish I knew.
In MIL's defense .. at least momentarily ... I don't think anyone has said to her, nor has it even occurred to her, .. the concept of *hospice* or *palliative* care. I don't think that notion has ever dawned on MIL. Nor has anyone on the scene here made that suggestion. I think I will, when she next says the words she says all the time: "You know this isn't me, I'm not about running to all these doctors and having all these tests, and all these pills shoved at me .. this isn't what I'm about ... I don't want all this".
I think I WILL BRING IT UP .. and see if she perks up at that thought. Perks up to the tune of, .. "well gee, they're ready to dig my grave already .. I guess I better make up my mind which I want it to be".
I do wonder, having absolutely zero knowledge on this topic. Nothing she has is fatal .. well, .. CHF is eventually fatal .. but .. it is "manageable" if one will do as they should. She has A-Fib .. that too, not fatal .. but manageable .. if one will do as they are directed to do .. she has Diverticulitis .. not a fatal condition .. manageable .. she has osteo-arthritis .. not fatal ... she has a myriad of things, none fatal in and of themselves .. but indeed manageable. I do have to wonder, .. would a hospice system even take that on. Would her PCP .. would he even entertain that notion?
I don't honestly know the answer to any of that.
She would, if she chose that path, obviously need the services of above. She would begin to experience some heart rhythm issues, absent the Eliquis she takes, .. she would begin to experience some marked swelling .. and likely eventually fatal .. absent the Lasix. Seems to me, she would need to be rx'd some narcotics in order to deal with the effects, ultimately.
I just don't know enough about that end of things and whether she would even be a candidate to say "enough is enough, I'm done, now help me to get to the next stage .. which is to ck outta here".
Would be very telling if she is given that as an option and what she has to say about it.
Yes, mentioning Hospice and Palliative care may finally start a real conversation between these bozo children and their mom.
DORKER does not deserve all this worry and stress.
Mil's children need to be with her at a PcP doc appointment or Hospital evaluation.
My brother thought that our mom's anxiety was "something she was doing to herself" and that she was having a pity party.
Getting him and SIL to attend the debriefing session after the neurocog testing was a revelation to them. It wasnt ME telling them stuff, it was medical professionals assessing her brain/cognitive functioning.
And saying that living alone was no longer an option.
Since many of us have dealt with CHF with our parents, we are anxious about the precarious state we know MIL is in.
But once she states she wants palliative care she no longer has to worry about doctors visits or any of the other previously mentioned problems. She can start planning her funeral if that is on the list of acceptable activities.
I think the words hospice and/or palliative care are shocking to some people. Maybe those words would be appropriate for MIL, SIL and DH to consider?
Lots of advantages.
Summon the cloud. check
Stay in her home. check
Not eat. check
Not hydrate. check
Not take pills. check
No bothersome calls from SIL. check
No depends. check
MIL will have managed her life in the direction she has decided on.
That leaves the dog. That seems to be the only problem. What will happen with the dog?
If she TRULY feels that way and if she is sick of going to doctors and having folks trying to "fix" what is wrong (with pills or compression hose) then she should be able to opt for no treatment, with the understanding that no treatment, i.e., non-compliance, will result in her death.
But it should also be understood by all parties that she doesn't get to call everyone to say "I'm not feeling well, come and sit with me".
My MIL decided not to rehab after open heart surgery. She accepted the fact that she needed to be in a facility in order to have round the clock supervision and basically starved herself to death over the course of about 8 weeks. But she didn't whine.
But don't turn it into an emergency for DH or you.
Once on hospice or PC, everyone will stop nagging her.
UNTIL ..............
The ramifications of her actions or inactions as the case may be .. then fall into pieces and she calls "I don't feel well, can you come"
He hasn't gotten to where I am on it all. Of course, he's only been at this a few months, it took me years. I have advised (but will he do it, doubtful) call 911. No, he will run hold her hand .. and nurse her along .. even though he also gives voice to, .. she's done running around to docs .. she wants to go already ... to that cloud in the sky ... even though he gives voice to .. her worst fear is a nursing home ... he will go run ... and nurse her along .. stay with her, make sure she's eating/drinking .. etc.
And never in any of it, say to her, the tough words .. "ma, this aint workin .. not for you, not for me.. we gotta do something different".
He tried .. last hospitalization .. he went there, gingerly .. and told her that going forward he may need to talk about some decisions that need to be made as to her care .. and they may need to discuss some things.
She got very agitated and told him that she won't be treated like an idiot .. and told what to do ....
He then said to her: "But mother, who is it you call when things fall apart .. it's me, that's who".
She then said, "Well then I won't call you".
He dropped it.
Didn't go any further with it.
There ya go. That's how it all goes.
If he feels that way, then there is really not much that you can do, is there?
What's unclear is if SIL would go along with the two of them. Even if she wouldn't, 2 out of 3 think there has been enough medical treatment for Narcissa, including of course Narcissa herself.
"Have they ever talked to her about compression hose?".
I responded .. 'oh only about a zillion times, she won't do it'.
My mother then saying: "So why won't she just wear Depends .. I get it that it's too hard for her to get to the bathroom she's too slow, and it's too much of a struggle, why won't she just wear Depends".
Me: Your guess is as good as mine. I don't know, .. I haven't ever had to do that, so I guess I wouldn't know the answer .. but she won't.
Now ..
Share that dialogue with DH .. go ahead .. tell him what my mom says about the above.
His answer to that: "Easy for her to say, she's not in those shoes .. I bet if she were, .. and had all these problems, she wouldn't be dealing with it either, .. easier to say what you think you'd do, she isn't in those shoes".
Excuses, excuses, excuses!
But NO .. NO NO NO .. let's don't ever confront MIL and make her understand that if she can't/won't comply with what the docs advise, it's going to be to her own demise .. and have some real discussion about a medical POA .. and let's talk about where you need to be living so that you can adequately be cared for, because it's painfully obvious you routinely make decisions with regard to your own well being .. decisions that put you at continued peril .. and it's not good for you, but it's also not manageable by me .. or anyone else.
NO NO NO NO . let's don't have that discussion.
And no, I truly don't think it's that anyone fears her wrath .. I really don't think that at all ....I think they both pity her .. and maybe some denial .. and maybe throw in there .. a dash of .. they want for her, what she wants ........ to be able to be left in the home she SO WANTS TO STAY in .. and go to that cloud in the sky.
Neither of them deal with *confrontation* real well. SIL or DH. Never have. Look no further than SIL and her dog sitting for her daughter .. and being walked on by that situation continually. She would never confront her daughter and say to her, "look missy .. you're the one that took on 3 dogs ... but yet you want to flitter all about the USA in your travels, then by GOD take em with ya, .. or find a good boarding or dog sitting service, but quit dumping this on me to deal with every-other-weekend as you're off and gone again".
That wouldn't happen.
DH ... I've had problems with him all through the years .. I was the tough one here raising kids .. it was me, the disciplinarian (won't confront), ... even problems once they were grown .. and stepping on my toes in one way or another .. and my trying to buck up against it, .. and asking for his support, .. it's always some *excuse* .. *well so and so just needs to grow up .. just give it time* .. on and on it goes.
BOTH OF THEM have problems with *confrontation*. They really truly do.
In DH's case with his mom. I have seen him stand firm .. for instance, her assertion she wants her attic cleaned out. She wanted this .. under the guise of ... *so you guys won't have to do it when I'm dead and gone*. I saw him stand firm on that, .. "then get someone else to do it, I'm not doing it". So he "can do it".
It's not fear of her wrath. It's just that they pity her .. and her plight .. and they maybe even are in denial about how bad it all is ... and that river of denial .. runs deep for both of them ... and ... along with that, their wish for her, that her wish can be granted.. that she stay firmly entrenched in that house, until one day she wakes up on that cloud in the sky.
That's what they want.
We all know (denial piece of it all) .. the very things MIL does and doesn't do, as to adequately caring for herself, .. put her at a far greater risk, that the home she so firmly has dug herself into staying in, could very possibly be a distant memory .. as she lays in a SNF wasting away. We all know that, ...
But getting them to see it, .. and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ..
Quite impossible it seems.
Yet another hurricane is looming and growing bigger each day--and I mean the "big one" for MIL.
By the time she is wheezing from the effort to get to a phone---there is a LOT of fluid in her chest. Also in her legs, as you stated, which no doubt makes simply walking difficult (yet, we know this woman still DRIVES!!!)....I agree, any phone call from MIL with her complaining AT ALL about being winded, tired, whatever, or if you even SUSPECT she's worse--call 911. Meet them at the Hospital. My guess would be she is much, much worse than you are thinking. The human body is just not made to run forever....with the abuse she heaps on it.
My Son in law is a Dr. and he did a LOT of geriatric care in his training. He was talking to my Dh one day about hubs not taking care of his diabetes. SiL actually offered to prescribe a newer drug for him---DH just hems and haws and nothing comes of it. Later I asked SIL, "how does it feel to spend an hour with a "patient" and then they really just blow you off?" He shrugged his shoulders and said "probably 70% of my patients are pretty much non-compliant and don't do a single thing I tell them to. You get used to it."
That doesn't come as a surprise, I'm sure. The frustration for you is that MIL goes back to the same dr over and over, hears the same things over and over and makes zero effort at change. And wonders why she's sick. It's actually kind of amazing she's lived this long! If it's any consolation, I'm sure her PCP hears she's coming in and wants to run away!
Keep on ignoring SIL, support DH in his work (but not in his denial--!) and just let the chips fall where they may.
Thanks for the clarification on the MIA brother. No surprise, really. This family has some deep dirty secrets--nobody acts like that and talks like that and there's no root cause. You'll probably never really know why. MIL didn't sound like a really great mother to BIL.
As always--hang tough.
Answer: "I talked to her last night, she seemed better, .. she says she is taking her Lasix now, and drinking and so forth .. and she's eating .. she says she has no appetite, but that she is forcing herself to eat the MOW's or at least some of it"
I said, "well .. ya know ... the other day .. she was so out of breath .. just from answering the phone .. you know ... it was a week or so ago that she was really in some distress .. a BP spike .. and disoriented some, short of breath .. and SIL .. concerned about her and wanting her seen by the doc .. she had the housekeeper take her .. and the PCP .. told SIL .. after that visit that your mom has a lot going on, she's not well, .. and ordered for her a chest xray .. and a cardio consult .. both of those were to have transpired last week and your mom had your sister cancel them, saying she just can't do all these doctor visits".
He is shaking his head in acknowledgement as I'm imparting this. He said the following: "What's that going to do?, what's she hoping to achieve in going to the doctors? She is ready to go .. why go to all these doctors .. she doesn't want to do it ... she, her biggest fear is that she's going to end up in a nursing home .. and she doens't want that, she wants to leave this earth from right there, in her home ...and not end up in a nursing home .... she's ready to go ... if that's how she feels .. then running to all these doctors, .. and she can't do it, . she isn't able to do that .. then it's pointless ..".
I responded: "Well .. if she doesn't want to end up in a nursing home .. a good way to avoid that is to actually comply with what they tell her to do .. one of those is to take that Lasix as she's directed to do .. but she won't do it .. saying that it's too hard for her to go to the bathroom all the time .. then wear the compression hose .. that they've advised she do .. but she won't do either .... she is putting herself at greater risk for an "event" by doing the things she does ..".
Him nodding in acknowledgement that he's aware . but also a nod of kinda knowing ... and maybe somewhat annoyed at a reminder of the obvious.
So you see, ... this is how they approach it all (not what I would do) .. this is going to be the approach. But .. let's not forget now, ... as Shane1124 had said somewhere in all of this, if it gets bad enough, MIL will reach out to live .. she will ... she won't drown in her own fluid in her lungs ... that would be horrible .. tragic ... and probably not even doable, it would be too hard. She "will" reach out .. and of course, then comes SIL directing from afar ... and then when it's said .. "she shouldn't be living alone, these things keep happening ... she can't adequately care for herself, .. she keeps failing to do the things she needs to do .. and we wind up in this predicament". Then of course it becomes SIL with the whole "well she was just *this* or she was just *that*, .. that's been fixed now and so she's *FINE*, she can *manage*.
I'm sure those of you that follow all this understand why I am pulling my hair out with it all, and the only thing I CAN DO is control me ... and controlling me, means I step back from it all.
Yes, I could've lost my chit this morning with DH .. and his *nods of acknowledgement* ... and really went bonkers at him .. and got myself all emotionally charged about the whole thing. And then been told, "well maybe you need to step in and see to these things for her, ...".
Nope, been there/done that. And yes, I coulda insisted, "NO, MAYBE YOU need to be the one to see to these things". And then been told, .. "She wants to stay in her home, .. she doesn't want to be in a hospital .. she doesn't want to end up in a SNF .. that's her worst fear .. she doesn't wanna be running all around town to doctors .. so fine .. that's how we're going to deal with all this".
I have no idea if the Home Health Nurse came yesterday or was sent away/discharged by MIL for good .. I don't know. I didn't ask. I don't know if MIL is in fact taking her Lasix now, and *forcing* herself to eat, even though she has no appetite. DH doesn't either. He only knows what he is told by MIL. Who knows what she's done . or hasn't done.
I agree .. should this all somehow land in my direction to deal with, .. it's a 911 call and yes, .. a bit of word on the sly w/a SW there at the hospital.
It likely won't. It will land in DH's ear, with a "can you come ...???... I don't feel right".
I can't control how DH handles it. I can only control what I do. I have advised that he should call 911. Will he? That's up to him. Doubtful. He will go hold her hand, . and give her some liquids and give her some food .. and push that she "eat" .. and "drink" .. and here we go again .. same repeated cycle, over and over.
But *she's fine* .. *she can manage*.
And then there's SIL 1K miles away .. and she is readying for the out of towners converging this weekend for the big shindig of a wedding there. And it seems as though when she is preoccupied with her own things on her end, all the fussing an neurosis ceases .. there's a halt on it all, as she is otherwise occupied. So be it.
And then I recall her telling me the other day .. in the same conversation where she questioned her mother cancelling appts for cardio consult and for chest xray .. and she went on to ramble about (not sure why she was imparting any of this, unless it was to try . once again . to enlist my help) .. she then goes into this ramble that her son was to fly into town from Abu Dhabi .. (he has bought some investment property here in the states, in the city there where SIL lives) and the closing was to be on such and such date, but has now been pushed back and so it looks like he will be in town in November. She goes on to say (this is the part, where she'd sure like it if I'd alleviate this for her, .. but I have no idea why she'd have to be in town, for her son to go a closing on investment property he purchased, that has nothing to do with her) ... she goes on to say to me, "I had so hoped he'd be here and be gone .. because I made a slew of appointments for mom in November, .. figuring I'd probably be back at that time, but it looks like son will be here now, at that time".
I didn't even respond to it. She's fine, remember, she's fine, she can manage. So let her.
I'm sure the above as imparted as yet again, an attempt to engage me in making sure MIL is seen at various appointments SIl set for her. It didn't/and won't work .. I'm not going to do it.
DH can do it, if SIL directs from afar, or the housekeeper can do it .. or whatever they work out .. or SIL can see her way here, to do it. I really don't care. See the above pattern that keeps continually repeating and the reason(s) why I stepped away from it all. It's pointless to continue to waste my time with it all.
I understand MIL's sentiment that she's done with life here on this big ball spinning around .. done with it. I get that, I truly do. But I don't have the answers as to what you do about it. In the meantime .. all this failure to care for herself, and no one adequately addressing it, makes me absolutely BONKERS. I have to, for my own sanity .. step back from it all.
When you show up at the ER when that does happen, you should *not* sign discharge papers for the same reason- no legal standing. Instead, you can talk to their social worker (ask for Sw as soon as you get to the ER, when you step away from MIL to use the restroom as your excuse). Tell sw how worried you are about MIL living by herself, how DH has no time for her, how do has a disabled/ill husband, and how you are wrapped up in the care of your own mother and twin grandbabies. That there is no one who can or does look after mil; that there is no money for it. And you know she needs snf but no one listens, can she (Social Worker) possibly help? That one conversation will have more results than taking mil to the cardiologist.
If the home care nurse comes and finds her in this state, she should call 911. If MIL has dismissed the home health care nurse, then the situation may be even more dire by the time 911 is called.
I agree that Dorker should NOT be the one to take MIL to the PCP, even if it is an emergency. Remember, Emergency = Call 911. That is IT.
Shame on MIL, and shame on H and SIL. And SIL was a social worker, you say? Double shame then!
(As an aside, I think MIL said she would like a small apartment to SIL so that the idea of MIL going to live with SIL wouldn't be considered. As we now know, neither of them want to live with the other. MIL isn't serious about living in a small apartment.)
Interesting relationship. I don't think she's going to end up in the hospital. I think she's going to get her wish to be in the clouds.
And her children will say "oh, what a sad shame it is!"
Interesting children.
If the Home Care nurse stops by and assesses your MIL is in congestive heart failure, she can and will call 911 to have MIL transported to the hospital for evaluation. I wonder if MIL dismissed her.
It is clear MIL has some cognitive deficit if she knows the importance of needing to take her fluid pill and what happens when she doesn't, yet refuses to do so. Pure stubbornness on her part that will lead to her demise.
You must have a lot of patience Dorker as I would have unloaded on both DH & SIL several times already. They want to keep her in her home when clearly she cannot take care of herself. I guess they too are waiting for "the event" as they know their mother will not go willingly either to a hospital or NH, and don't want to be considered "bad kids" by forcing her out of her home. Their delay and denial could cost their mother her life.
The housekeeper as transportation is not going to be a long term solution. But here is the pattern again with SIL directing from afar. SIL delegates mom checks to your MIL's neighbors & now is imposing on the housekeeper to take her mom to her doctor visits. Any warm body will do, as that warm body used to be you.
Anytime your SIL can direct someone else to do what she should be doing, she will. For years that person was you, but you have stepped out.
DH will be pressuring you to take his mother to her doctor this week especially after yesterday's call where MIL was short winded. Let him take her, even if he is busy. He needs to make time so he can speak with her PCP or cardiologist and have them tell him his mother is a danger to herself living alone and why. DH hasn't listened to you about his mom's decline & need for a more supervised living environment but I bet he will listen to MIL's doctor.
Maybe that will prompt him to have a sit down with his mother & SIL and finally face up to the facts. Goodness knows nothing else has worked.
Get ready for another bumpy ride when DH pleads with you to take MIL to the doctor this week as you said you would help out "in an emergency ". It really is best if he takes her himself. Don't allow him to miss the opportunity to meet his mom's doctor's and get a reality check on just how sick his mother is.
Stick to your guns, Dorker. You are doing fine. I would ignore SIL's call and texts and refer her to DH. SIL is desperate now and she will try anything to get you re-engaged. As will DH as he "is too busy" with his job responsibilities and will try to pull you back in too. You were too good at it for all those years.
Their mother, their problem. Tough love on your part and hard to do because you DO care.
If she calls you complaining of shortness of breath, call 911 to go to her house. She will need oxygen and monitoring by EMS anyway while she is transported to the hospital. She will need IV lasix to get that extra fluid off. You & DH can't provide this.
She reported at that time, the PCP's comments (though brief, he only had a moment) .. his words referring to MIL: "She's got a lot going on, she isn't well".
SIL was told this by the physician himself .. and aware there was a cardio consult on tap, as well as chest xray. Yet, MIL sees fit to cancel same and SIL's only remark is, .. "seems it's just too hard for her to get to these doctors ..".
SIL knows! She spoke to the PCP herself. Yet the above is the reaction. MIL knows, .. yet the above .. cancelled follow through .. the order of the day.
As things stand presently, .. I will give this a few days and maybe drop a hint of a question at DH to see if he's on the page that some things are getting attention .. perhaps his sister has informed him.
If nothing else, he will surely have an idea pegged as to his mother's well being or lack thereof. If, in a few days, .. he reports her to be suffering .. and more problematic, I will re-evaluate whether to try to light a fire under SIL.
Thus far, it's done no good to light a fire anywhere. As Surprise put it, it does seem they are determined, at all costs .. to grant Queen Mum's wishes to remain in her home. Be damned the consequences.
All of this, the very reason I had to step back. Not at all what I'd be doing.
Her heart was pinging all over the place, very irregular, she was sweating, had chest pain, and I thought she might be having a heart attack. Turns out, CHF, her first episode of this, and she was hospitalized for several days as they drain off loads of fluids, they did a myriad of other heart test, and even an Angiogramy, which showed that she had beautiful arteries, which was nice too know for family history and all, Lol! .
She was released with new diuretics, which she took religiously, and she never had a problem with that ever again! When the fluids collect in the abdomen, it's much harder to diagnose, but thankfully he made that call to me!
My Mom Hated going to the Dr, as realistically, he just should have called 911 from the get go, but my Mom thought a good old cup of tea might solve the problem. Duh, old fashioned British parents at work here! Grrr! As if tea solves Everything!
Sometimes you've got to take control of the situation, and go over their heads, and be damned about their fears of hospitals and 911 attention! Another hour and she would have drowned in her lung fluids.
This is why I still think that one more Urgent, Serious call to sister, to say Mom might not make it through another episode like this one, and let the chips fall where they will, but at least your good conscious is free from feeling any guilt or Responsibility, as it is Her Mom after all!
I'm not saying you should feel guilty, but I would hate to think you might!
I would not feel any guilt about keeping my mouth closed. SIL & DH know the situation, but won't put their foot down no matter what. What happens happens.
I think you are justified in not answering SIL's text or phone messages. Just like MIL, she expects an action and an answer. She won't stop until you completely extinguish your behavior. Her first point of contact should be your brother, not you, and SIL has learned that you would be her/MIL's proxy to nag DH into obedience. Stop reading her messages, stop thinking about what she's really telling you to do. Just slide the message to the side and you won't see it again. Don't peek!
If you find yourself in a conversation and the other person starts talking about DH or MIL, you've been a great example of how to defer to DH. Now to do that with the texts!
If your MIL chooses to refrain from adequate medical care, and her children are on board, it is a valid choice. It will certainly save the taxpayers money from medicare or medicaid expenses.
T-H-E V-E-R-Y T-H-I-N-G that the docs have advised when she complains as to why she doesn't take the Lasix as rx'd .. "too difficult with her mobility issues, to go back and forth to the bathroom".
If I had a nickel for everytime that's been said to her in my presence, I think I'd probably be able to take the whole neighborhood to dinner. She has been told, and told and told and told! I have offered to help her, let's go to the DME store .. the PT/OT people tried to help her by showing her assistive devices (she has very arthritic hands). I even, when I was a part of the scene on such, offered to "let's see if that's something we can get a CNA to come by maybe once a week or so, to assist".
Nope, nope and nope.
Has she ever worn them? I think maybe one time .. and she didn't like them. Thus, never again, even having been cautioned by docs .. "it's not an option to do nothing at all, you have to take the Lasix or do the compression hose, one or the other, . this doesn't just go away .. as you see, it gets worse".
Response generally: "I know I need to do better with that".
What actually happens: The same thing over and over and over. She doesn't take the Lasix .. the edema builds .. and cellulitis begins .. and she doubles up on it, then dehydrating herself .. possibly loss of too much Potassium (failure to take that with the doubled up Lasix). Over and over and over, this keeps happening. One of the many catalysts, that caused me to exit the whole scene.
Why keep running back to the doc with the same malady time and again, to be told the same things again and again, and no follow through.
As to the suggestion that I make one more serious attempt to get SIL on the right page on this with how dire it is.
SIL is aware she wasn't taking her Lasix when here.
How? MIL began telling her about the sore on her leg, and when SIL inquired .. MIL told her she'd not been taking her Lasix. SIL, from what I could tell, was then asking her mother, why not. Her mother then expressing it's just too hard to get to the bathroom, .. she just can't do it.
Later, when I was talking to SIL she asked me, how bad does the sore on her leg look. I answered honestly, "I haven't looked at it".
She then asked, .. "why isn't she taking it?".
I answered, "as she told you, it's too hard to go back and forth to the bathroom".
SIL: "Does she not have any of her Depends with her, did she not bring them .. are there any stores open where you can go buy some for her".
I answered honestly: "I don't know".
(note the one more gadget, one more, one more, one more, one more).
Along that same line of conversation I reminded SIL ..
A couple of weeks ago, when MIL had a spike in her BP (not usual for her, usually has low BP) .. and at the same time, pain in her lower side (indication of a flare up diverticulitis) .. was also feeling a bit disoriented .. short of breath .. etc etc.
That's when SIL directed the housekeeper to take MIL to PCP .. rather than clean house.
There, the PCP .. listened to her lungs, heard some wheezing .. and did a urine test .. and it initally came back fine .. (later however, they did call and say that the culture came back UTI) .. but .. at that time, they dx'd a flare up of diverticulitis .. heard some wheezing in her lungs .. had her exhale hard into some meter and that showed she didn't meet the mark ..??.. he then ordered some blood/lab work .. (don't know if that was ever attended to), wanted her seen by cardio .. appt scheduled, and cancelled this past week .. and wanted a chest x-ray .. also cancelled.
I reminded SIL of the above, and the importance of some follow through there .. and the fact that MIL has a persistent unrelenting dry cough .. and that I wonder if she isn't experiencing some build up of fluid . in her lungs (never occurred to me about the heart and fluid build up).
I said the same things to MIL.
MIL's response: "I just can't do all this . .. it's got to be something really .. absolutely no way out of it, .. it's just too hard for me anymore to go to these doctors, it takes everything out of me, just to get ready to go .. I just can't do it. I did express to her, that dry hacking cough that is unrelenting .. it may be related to her shortness of breath .. and that they should probably look at it, via xray. MIL said, .. and she meant it, "they took a chest xray of me, back when I was in the hospital.. they can look at that one .. it's not good to get all that radiation and I don't want to go do it, it's more than I can do".
SIL's response to the above .. as drawn out for her: "I wish she would go, but it sounds like it's just too hard for her .. she's all upended .. being at your house, post-hurricane and no power and she just can't even bring herself to get ready. I'll cancel the appts for her, and just let her know that if she wishes to reschedule them, she can call them herself".
At this point, it won't surprise me if this doesn't end in some kind of urgency and a possible inpatient hospital visit. I almost hope it does. Only because (as much as MIL will fight to her last breath to stay out of a hospital setting) . it's like the only way anymore, it seems that she can get all the tests done in one setting, and going .. for her, .. from one doc to the next, to the lab, to the other doc .. day after day . .is more than she can do.
But .. "she's fine", "she can manage".
SIL is aware, in fact, MIL is aware .. of the finer points .. they were drawn out for the both of them, in black and white .. and still ... it gets ignored.
DH called his mom last night, just to ck in, .. nothing more.
It took a few rings for her to answer, and when she did, .. it was like she'd run a marathon, panting and out of breath .. I heard him say to her, "what's going on mother?, .. what's the problem". I didn't know at that moment what might be the problem .. but heard him ask her .. and then there was silence. I assumed she was telling him ..
Turns out, .. she was panting and out of breath .. and when he asked her, what's going on, what's the problem, .. her answer was, "I was trying to get to the phone .. I'm out of breath . hold on .. hold on just a minute .. hang on, .. I have to get my bearings here .. hold on".
She doesn't "run" .. ever for anything .. She can't, incapable of running. So her, "trying to get to the phone", she isn't even able to hurry .. it was just her, normal function .. traveling from wherever she was .. to get to the phone (she has phones in every room except the bathrooms and the hallway .. even a phone in the garage .. so I can't imagine why she'd of been so out of breath doing that.. except to say that she complains of that.. she is always out of breath .. worse when exerting .. but always short of breath.
Not good.
I know SIL races around while she's in town, but that's her ocd talking. She doesn't "do" followup in a way that makes a difference in her mother's health, or life expectancy. And DH looked at her swollen feet and the break therein? And doesn't see the opportunity for infection?
If either of MIL'S actually wanted their mom around for another 10 years, they'd be getting her to doctors, someway, somehow. They'd recognize that when a doc asks for a chest x-ray and a cardio consult, s/he is looking for serious issues that cannot be ignored.
DH may not think as badly as BIL does of their mom, but there's no REALLY feeling except fear of her wrath, from what I can see.
On a happier note, I put on a pair of compression socks this AM because I had a cardiology app that this afternoon. What I'd forgotten is how much they keep my feet from hurting! Has Narcissa ever actually worn a paIr?
Your wondering where your empathy went, it's still there, but you are in crisis mode, WAITING for the next Crisis, and it's going to come, it's just a matter of time, and probably sooner than you realize!
Unfortunately for MIL, her Daughter and Son won't face up to the reality that You see it, and are putting your foot down about it, the Fact is that MIL cannot go on the way things are, and changes Need to be made, but they will, again, it's just a matter of time!
You have tried So hard to get them to see the facts before their eyes, but when she gets into Congestive Heart Failure, and Cannot Breathe (and may not even be able to get to the phone!), hopefully Then, they will act before it's too late!
I do think that One More Try with your SIL, a phone Call to discuss that MIL has Not been taking her Lasix, that her feet and legs Are Swollen, her breathing Is Affected (as Clearly her PCP saw at her last visit, ordering Cardio consultry and chest xray, Hello!), and that Something Must be done about it, and hopefully she will listen and make the Appropriate measures to circumvent the crisis, that way you can put your mind at ease knowing that you've told her, and then she can see to Her Mother's Needs. Your husband already knows what's going on, but men are men, and they just don't get the urgency of these sorts of matters, Unfortunately!!!
Yes, your SIL is prepping up for a big shindig back home, but as you've said, your last 3+ family events have been interrupted by mindless issues with MIL, but this is a Big Issue, that needs tending to, and your stance is that because her two children are ignoring the basic Facts that their own Mother can no longer Manage on her own, and you've pulled out because they are ignoring your acknowledgment of the Obvious, then She needs to deal with it, Shindig or No Shindig! Too bad, she needs to deal with it, or face the fact that Mother is going to go down with the ship, as Sad as that might be!
I'm sorry, but unless you come right out and tell her, her Mom may well end up in a medical crisis, that she may well not recover from, or may end up putting her into a Nursing home, or Rehab post hospitalization, at the very least, that is, If she survives it! Many people Don't survive CHF events!
OMG, you must get pulling your hair out by this time! It is So unfair to you Dear Dorker,and I would hate to see them point the finger at you for not intervening, but Stop and realize that it is Not you problem Any Longer!
They must be dense, letting her just slide off the cliff Again! I mean come on! SIL wrangling the neighbors and the Cleaning Lady to keep an eye on her, or taking her to the Drs? What will it take for her to see how bad this looks? She Must now know that you mean business here!
One more SERIOUS PHONE CALL TO SIL!!! I really think that the it would put your mind to ease, and allow you to relinquish Any guilt that you may associate to this next Crisis! I'm sure your husband knows you mean business, but he needs his sister On Board, to initiate any real changes, and hopefully it will be Before the Real life altering Crisis happens, but don't wait, because CHF is real, and patients can take a turn for the worse very quickly, and those sorts of troubles can be difficult to turn around before she either dies, or ends up in a very bad way. You know it, SIL knows it, but she needs to hear it from you, shindig be damned!
Anyways, I'm sorry you are once again, stuck in the middle! As you are there just wondering and waiting, and it's not fair to you, because you do care, and you do know that it's not your place to be the one to confront and to insist that Mother DO THE RIGHT THING! The life saving Thing! It's that or Who knows what is going to happen to her! It's just a shitty place to be in, and I don't want you blaming yourself when it happens! Sorry Sweetie!
I don't know .. and haven't inquired. Won't be inquiring.
My finger was in the pie of all this, a little too close for comfort last week, out of necessity. A huge storm, like none other, having blown through the state and devastation the order of the day. I had to be, at least .. at the very least, "not part of the problem".
I was not steppin and fetching .. that's for sure. But I was in communication .. (to a larger degree than in recent months) with SIL .. as messages getting relayed back and forth, no power, no phones. At least for the first few days post-hurricane.
To refuse to do so, would've made me part of the problem. So I was, at least .. that little part, for that time frame. I was not, however, the doting DIL I was at one time. She was on her own, if DH wasn't around. Look no further than the day I wasn't here, having left in anger over MIL's assertion she was packed and ready to go home. Came back home after having been gone several hours (on purpose), .. and asked if she'd eaten lunch. She ate a handful of M&M candies for lunch.
There was a time when I'd of fussed over that, and now let me get you something here, let's get you some fruit .and here, what kinda sandwich would you like, and would you like some tomato and lettuce on that. Not this time.
The sore on her leg that I heard her telling her daughter about, once the phones were working. There was a time when I'd of fussed over, that, here let me see, let me look at that, oh goodness, we do need to get you to the doctor to have that seen, let's get that on the radar right now, and get that seen to. Nope, not this time. I didn't even register that it had been heard. Been there/done that, far too many times. She knows what happens when you don't take the diuretic and the edema increases. Seen it, too many times. No fussing on my part, it is what it is.
When her son asked her, looking at the ghastly site that is her feet/legs .. is she taking her Lasix and she responded no, she isn't, too hard to get to the bathroom. There was a time that too, I'd of been fussing over .. to try to somehow make that more doable. That too, .. didn't register. I never commented, one way or the other.
Her complaining that she was slipping trying to adjust he dog in the bed at night .. and make more space for herself on the bed, .. complaining that she sits on the edge of the bed to try to scoot back and the side of the bed gives too much and her weak legs, she can't grip to stay upright, begins slipping. There was a time, that too would've gotten my attention, I'd of been all over that, trying to figure some workable solution. Even SIL .. having heard that, .. "oh dear, I guess she forgot her hospital socks that have the grip strips on the bottoms, maybe one of you could grab those for her". Nope, .. my response, "let's just hope the power comes back on and she can be deposited at home".
So, .. I was "involved" .. but not at all to the above degree that would've formerly been the case. My involvement more one of, .. if I was making b'fast for DH .. I'd make one for her too, .. not going to be cruel and put a breakfast in front of him, that I don't offer her one also. One of .. if a message needed to be relayed .. I would do so ...
NOW however, .. mother in law has been deposited at her home, . her yard mess has been attended to and dispensed with .. and so the status quo that I'd worked over the last several weeks to achieve .. which is .. distance from all this .. is the new order again.
I don't know .. (I'm sure I'll hear if there's anything to note) .. how the edema is, the sore on the leg, . the nurse visit .. etc etc etc.
Every family is dysfunctional; it's just a matter of degree. When things are going great, and everyone is busy living life the way they want, families can look pretty darn functional. When dysfunction is enabled, however, crises become the new normal. Your husband is enabling his mother. What SIL does is her business, not yours. Your husband is your business. Get him to a family law or elder law attorney so that the attorney can explain to him all the ins and outs of durable power of attorney, a will, etc.
Popping by to say Hi.
I agree, trying to use the housekeeper as a housekeeper/transporter/and whatever else just doesn't sound like a very viable plan. Not sure how SIL thinks that's going to work in the real world.
Glad you are standing your ground. Hate that it all continues to be a source of frustration for you.
Oh and the bit where SIL tried to over ride the grocery list...I would have lost it with her then and there. You are a much better person than I.
It reminds me of last week when I was .. periodically .. in touch with SIL as she'd pass on a message needing to get to DH or to her mom .. in the storm we we were weathering.
She had talked of .. questioning my knowledge on it ... how much to pay the housekeeper for transport to doc appts., (translation - see how much this is costing me, won't you just step up and do this) .. and in that same conversation imparting how problematic it is, trying to schedule doc appts that the housekeeper can facilitate transportation but working around housekeeper's schedule to clean other houses.
SIL went on to lament that the last time housekeeper was to come clean .. it was a time that MIL was in crises of sorts, needing to get to the doctor (short of breath, pain in her lower side, .. feeling a bit disoriented) .. and so rather than clean .. she had the housekeeper take her to the doc (DH unavailable to do so, which I knew, for years .. he'd be unavailable, which is why I was the one doing it). She then began to lament .... her words, ".. so the house hasn't been cleaned in a month now .. she was supposed to come this week .. but there's no power there, the last time she was to clean is when I utilized her instead to get mother seen at the doctor (translation - would you see fit to go clean mother's house, and no).
I see right through it all. These are all things that .. their learning curve (DH is rather disengaged from all of it , the minutia of it all) .. I would've formerly been hopping to, to see about. Not anymore.
My new approach, though I don't say it, is one of "if you want all this done, . as part of leaving your mother be, to live alone .. her wishes .. then get your azz on a plane and get down here and do it .. don't whine to me about her house not getting cleaned, and having to pay a housekeeper to get her to doc appts .. you want to sell it to me, that she's "FINE", she can "MANAGE". I don't buy it, .. haven't bought it, in several months now.
I don't have any sympathy at this point. Not even sorry she's now having to try to figure how to get her mom's house cleaned .. and yet pay for that .. yet also use that same individual .. the housekeeper to facilitate transportation to and from docs .. and pay for that also.
Wish I could say, "Gee, sorry it's all so complicated". But no, I don't feel that way, at all.
The more complicated the better. It's what you all want, by Gosh .. that she remain in her home .. even to her own peril. So be it.