I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
This morning's update from DH (and praise the heavens above, it wasn't me that was filtering this info).
I guess his sister got the memo ... last time I talked to her, via text .. it was the whole "passing the baton to you on the yardwork, since you're in touch with the neighbor and their church ....", that whole thing.
She hasn't bugged me since. Maybe the memo finally stuck.
She'd texted DH that she is still trying to get some answers from that church as to further clean up in mother's yard.
I asked DH .. "what further clean up, that way back area?". His answer, an exasperated "YES!". He went on to say ... "she's gonna keep on til those church people tell her *look lady we mobilized crews for hurricane clean up .. that ship has sailed .. and you need to also*.
I said, "what is it they're wanting .. and .. your sister ..???...she's not even here, this has to be coming from your mom".
He said (again, exasperated) .. "she said it, mom did ... I sit here at this kitchen table day after day (bank of windows there, ceiling to floor .. looks out upon the b'yard) .. this is my life ... I don't go anywhere or do anything .. and that area out back ... and way in the back .. it's just so bad .. ".
He said he told his mom, "there's your problem mom .. you need the little bus to come get you and take you to a senior center where you can interact with other folks .. you need to engage with others .. rather than sit there at your table staring out at problems in the b'yard".
He said her response was, "now that's just not me".
He said he then responded: "so ..??.....it IS you then ..???...to sit there at the kitchen table all the time, lonely .. and just gazing at the b'yard .. that's you..??.....".
I don't know what her response was.
DH then lamenting that SIL has gotten in touch with the local transportation authority here .. (the municipality that runs out bus system here, city buses). And that there is a van/small bus for the disabled .. and that she'd have to be qualified as disabled and be interviewed .. and doc has to fill out some paperwork, etc.
He was reading that out loud ....
He then says .. about his sister, and in a loud .. completely exasperated tone .. "SHE IS RIDICULOUS .. MY SISTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".
Oh thank GOD .....
I mean it .. these, these very things .. all of this minutia ...it has been my cross to bear for so so long .. it was me .. I was the one exclaiming, "YOUR SISTER ......... SHE IS RIDICULOUS".
He then goes on to say to me, "mother is not going to get on one of those buses .. she's just not gonna do that .. it's *beneath* her to do such".
(he's right ... I don't know about other locales and city bus systems and so forth .. and metros .. but here .. it's kinda the dregs of the world that utilize bus systems ... don't know why that is .. but it is .. he's not wrong .. ).
That will be problematic .. but .. again .. thank the heavens, not my problem to solve.
I only interjected at that point .. telling him about son in law's g'mother who is now widowed .. and that occasionally she has doc appts., procedures (she is fully able to drive herself, mostly) .. appts she had to be assisted .. a driver. I said to him that I'd been talking with son in law at one point and questioning all that. That his answer regarding his g'mother, "well for the most part, she drives herself .. she's fine to do so .. but if she needs to be driven .. if my mom or stepdad can't do it, and they can't always .. they work .. she has her church-lady friends .. and she doesn't mind asking one of them to do it".
DH listened, acknowledged, .. and said, "not my mom .. nope .. ", said in exasperation.
I will take the small victories where I can get em, thank ya.
I am ready to hop up and down in celebration that it's not me .. it's NOT ME .. that's fielding all this at this point.
It didn't need to be, EVER ...
But I'll take it.
And yes, SIL knock yourself out with trying to get that freebie from that church .. and see if they'll come for more clean up in that area out back that is so problematic no one else has signed on for that duty. Keep on ... maybe you'll succeed in finally getting that rectified. Glad it's not me.
And no, .. I didn't ask, ..but DH didn't say "I guess I'm gonna have to spend a few weekends over there .. clearing all that out".
Wouldn't surprise me if he did say that. I will be dismayed if he does ....... I'd rather him not ... but .. that's his choice.
And where is the hapless boy and his mom in all of this. I don't know .. and I don't care. Yes, I could hop in and see .. "well why aren't we talking to the boy and his mom".
Nope .. saw where that got me ....
Let DH handle it with his sister and all the neurosis.
What a glorious day!
This "job" of caregiving is THE toughest thing ever IMO...an emotional roller coaster that doesn't stop.
I too have been reading this thread and learning from everyone's advice and came to the conclusion recently to resort to tough love in the situation with my dad. Repeating the same old stories time and time again to my kids and my husband and whoever wanted to listen. I was driving myself crazy and everyone around me with the ifs, ands, butts and should'ves, could'ves, and wouldves!
I backed away big time, like went cold turkey and let go of checking in on my dad and let him find his own way living on his own..let him "do it himself". I knew he was really struggling to take care of himself and I did watch from a distance because I do care, love him and have great compassion for him but I could no longer enable his bad choices. He ended up calling 911 for himself.....
Long story short he came to the conclusion on his own that he wanted to return to assisted-living.
Dads thriving there now and looks happier and healthier than he has in the three months since he returned back home from assisted-living.
What I learned from Dorker's thread?
The situation with my dad was affecting my family as a whole, it wasn't just about him! It really hurt to let dad struggle and to see him get worse health wise but somehow it made him realize that he needed more help than what I could do for him at home and even at AL! The employees there are wonderful...they are like family... they do the hands-on care, I get to do the quality time with dad now...that I was missing more than I realized cause I was so stressed!
Yes, he "needed more care"...
...just like Dorkers MIL 😉
Many of us here are intrigued by Dorker's story, because many of us have experienced parts of her story in one way or another.
What I like best is that on this thread, this poster is making progress (unlike the posters on some other threads, who never change their ways). I stop reading those threads, because I am not interested after a while in the "poor me, ain't it awful, yes but" attitudes. I'm not interested in cheerleading someone's constant venting.
But that's just me! More patient posters like to offer sympathy for those sorts.
Dorker HAS made a LOT of progress, which is why I'm so interested in her story (plus, she describes the situations in an entertaining way in her choice of words). Yes, she's finding it difficult to disengage, but that's just a stumbling block for now. She is making HUGE strides forward to stop being so involved in this triangular dysfunctional family of Narcissa, SIL (and we need a name for her!) and H.
Please keep posting, Dorker!
It sure feels good, doesn't it?
Striving to keep it that way.
Lots of great folks with even better advice here, .. learning. It's a steep curve for some (me). But I'm learning.
Maybe, what I said is rude but it was just an observation shared by a few people, not just me. I guess I personally am not so self-centered that I would even entertain the thought of having a thread dedicated to just myself and nobody else. But hey, to each his own. Enjoy the limelight Dorker!
It's apparent that this specific thread and my "lengthy posts" have rubbed you wrong.
That's unfortunate. Again, you are invited to just scroll right on past this thread. There are numerous threads here devoted to one single lone situation/problem, not just mine. Not sure why this specific one is so abrasive to you .. but so be it, that's your right to not "enjoy" what's written here.
Not trying to offend anyone here, certainly. I learn from reading what others have written here .. and in some cases, I too scroll right on past things that don't specifically pertain to what I might benefit from.
You might try doing so yourself.
Yes, it's none of my business but then again it kind of is cause as I said this is a public thread. Just my opinion though. You don't have to respond if you don't want to.
I guess it's been a bunch of hooey to get that all in order. She has MOW for weekdays, daily . they deliver approximately 11 AM or so, .. from what I hear. But I guess, .. if one wants weekend meals, that's a whole different process to get on the rotation for it.
GOOD GOOD AND GOOD!!!!!!!!!!
This morning, DH scrolling thru some texts and sighs out loud "sister!".
As he then reads (his tone worn and tired from it all). Good, I say .. only because those are the two that NEED to be talking about it all. It doesn't need to filter through me.
He goes on to read it ... basically an update .. the findings at PCP .. nothing major with scan done....but doc wants further tests done (???). And that SIL will try to get housekeeper to get her there. And that SIL is still working to try to get MOW for weekends .. that it sounds as though MIL isn't eating anything of sustenance on weekends, because MOW isn't yet set up to deliver those meals to her, for weekends.
He reads this aloud ... (thinking out loud I guess), with a bit of disdain to his tone. He then says, with a big sigh:
"I don't know why mother even wants to go for further tests ... she is a cash cow to that doctor, .. why ... she's 87 years old, .. what are they wanting to test at this point ... why does she keep running after all these solutions .. and she can't even do it ... ".
I only responded, "not sure how much of a cash cow a Medicare only patient is ..".
He then .. "it's stupid .. if it were me, and I'm 87 years old and can barely get around, I'd be saying no .. not doing it ...".
I said in response: "you need to read about Palliative care ... ", went on to explain some of what my knowledge is on that. He said, "that sounds like more what would be up her alley".
He then, lamenting .. how "dramatic" his mother is (and she is, .. academy award winning) .. mocking her words she says often, "this isn't me, this isn't what I'm about, .. running to doctors all the time". At that, he then weighed in on the dog issue, .. MIL's dog .. her life's blood. Him venting out loud, "her and that little dog .. that's the only reason she's staying alive .. her little dog .. when that dog goes, .. GOD HELP US ALL ........". He then talked about when our family dog died, had him for 14 years and it .. as is the case with most folks, broke our hearts ... we all cried, including him, for two weeks straight over it, missing him so. He compared it . and said that in his mother's case .. she will likely want to hop into the crematorium with the dog when he goes...that it will be bad, with her academy award winning drama she routinely displays.
At that, I only interjected, .. yea but in our case .. we had to get on with the business of living, we had kids .. jobs .. etc .. she has none of that, so it will be bad ... that's for sure.
And at that I changed the subject.
Nothing said about the weekend MOW .. and that she is not eating anything of nutritional value on weekends, absent the MOW.
If he doesn't care to address that *need*, then I suppose I won't suggest any solutions either.
But good .. so good .. it's the two of them talking, .. SIL and he .. rather than filtered through me. As it should be!
No, he didn't respond ...
No, I didn't ask if he was going to.
Will I get a text from SIL later, "I texted brother and he never responded". I don't know, possibly.
My answer is at the ready: "She needs more care".
Sometimes at night I read other threads on here and I am amazed at these caregiver stories. I wonder how on earth these people are still standing. Some of these caregivers are carrying the load of 2 people! When i am feeling stressed, I read some others stories and I can see that I don't really have it so bad after all. May you have a peaceful week!
Yes, it could leave SIL with a mindset of, "well that's what I'm saying Dorker, .. I'm struggling here with all these things ....", ... and a perception on her part that if Dorker will step up to the plate .. that will help as to "she needs more care".
But that is on her, to sort through. She and her brother.
I knew for a long time that her brother ..................a) he doesn't have the time ...........b) doesn't really want to make the time ..................c) is on the periphery of it all for the most part, and has been .. all along. Quite comfortable there.
SIL .. I think ... I'm guessing ... (I feel bad for her in that respect) .. is going to have a whole new dose of reality.
I was in that gap .. filling it ... for a very long time.
That achieved a few great things.
1. It afforded that MIL be able to continue living in her home .. where she so adamantly wants to be, and always has wanted to be.
2. It ran interference for DH ..who didn't have to wade thru the muck and mire of it all, he had me.
3. Afforded SIL some comfort in knowing she could be at her home 1K miles away and live her life .. (and yes micromanage, she's always done that). But there was someone on this end, TO BE micro-managed. Me.
I have thought about it all, and pondered "is there anything that would engage me back in all of it, like I was previously". It obviously worked just dandy for all involved, for a long time.
And no, .. the more I ponder it .. the involvement I want at this point is to go visit her and enjoy her company when/where that's possible. If that means in her home, .. then so be it .. if that means in a facility somewhere, all the better. But absent any facility .. I want to just be able to "enjoy" her. I have, in years past, .. enjoyed her company.
I won't say she's so far gone she can't be enjoyed anymore. It's more difficult as she ages, as is probably the case for a lot of the aged. They want to tell the same ole tired stories you've heard 100 x's from their youth. They can't follow a line of/train of thought .. and stay engaged in a conversation, without you having to circle back to make some finer points clear. That kinda thing. But I know she enjoys us .. and being around all of us .. and the g'kids .. and that's the relationship I want.
That is what I'm determined to work towards.
The nitty gritty of it all, is this, it went on far too long. And that's my fault. I should've long ago stepped back from it all .. long before I did. I'm too kind for my own good.
It got to the point that I was extremely frustrated, routinely .. with a lot of what went on. My life changed, .. to the point that I have grown daughters now .. and so ... that too, an impact on my life in that, ... I'm done "taking care of anyone or anything .. that means dogs, kids, elderly, .. all of it, done". UNLESS ............ I want to.
That's what one gets for spending a life of "taking care of everyone and everything", that's the reward. You do, or at least I think so, get to a point where you can dust off your hands and say "done". (Until it's your own parent that needs .. and my day is coming on that front)
It didn't help that MIL's condition and state of being about that time, was escalating in need. And SIL .. micro-management, also along with it.
Just done.
I'm going to strive so very hard to be not at all responsive when SIL texts with yet some other struggle. I do feel for her, I truly do. I honestly do. I can't imagine how hard it must be to not be where your mom lives and be so worried about her well being .. and be adrift for the most part, other than what you can piece together via social services and the like, 1K miles away.
It must be a nightmare. But that still doesn't mean that I would ponder it all and think, "well gee, .. yea I sit here and say she needs more care, .. let me step in and be part of that".
Nope.
I don't have the answers. I do, but they don't want the answers I have, .. thus I'm determined to stay out of it all.
My mantra will be "she needs more care". I'm not even going to say permanently that will be what I parrot. But for the time being, .. at least for this week .. that's going to be my line. Period.
The folks on this board have been so enormously helpful .. and the knowledge that others have walked this path and worse even.
I think your scenario about DH thinking you are mean by not responding to the fishing text from SIL is wrong. He ignores the drama so should you. IF he should react like you described in your scenario...in my opinion that reaction would be completely unacceptable. That type of reaction should get him a quick attitude adjustment!
You have been given great advice on how to respond or not to SIL. I won't even go there.
SIL may find herself thinking " well Dorker, that's exactly what I trying to do with MOW or finding transportation..."
I think I will try that, .. for the rest of this week ...
I will respond if it has to do with MIL .. and the "need" there (various issues that crop up, of concern to SIL) .. I will respond like Surprise suggested, "She needs more care".
And I'm not saying another thing. She will likely come back with some excuse .. or some other something. But there will be no more responses from me on the topic.
As far as she's concerned, it will be like I dropped off the face of the earth after having responded "She needs more care". Nothing further.
Each time she texts with something of that nature .. if she does. The response above .. and then nothing further.
I like the practicality of it.
If she then sends texts having to do with the goings on as to her husband and that situation, I will engage and talk with her.
But as soon as the conversation then turns again, as to MIL concerns .. it will be again, "She needs more care", as I drop off the face of the planet and go NC.
Will give that a try. I have a busy week this week, between orientation and training for this flu clinic biz .. and some of the end of the month stuff for our biz .. and so .. won't have time for all the bs .. as it is anyway.
I don't think it's that I'm addicted to the drama. I think it's a matter that when you are the one here .. in the same town .. and your world gets upended by all of this, routinely .. even though you have said it until you are blue in the face "this isn't working" .. yet the dilemmas still get laid out there .. under the guise of *struggles* that SIL faces trying to manage it from afar .. (hint hint - will you pick up the ball and run with it).
Would be a lot easier (or seems that way), if we lived .. oh I don't know 9 hours away from where MIL lives and SIL lamenting the struggles she deals with to manage it all. I would find it a lot easier .. internally .. to just respond, "oh geeze, yea that's a problem, sure you'll get it worked out".
Because .............
I'm not gonna jump in my car and drive 9 hours one way to go take a meal to MIL when MOW didn't show up, or a doc visit or whatever.
It's the "pull" of the constant hints .. and the "feeling" of ... well geeze I'm here, .. she isn't. And indeed, BECAUSE I'm here and she isn't ... it would be real easy to pull the trigger and "oh my .. you don't say .. wonder what happened to MOW today .. I can sure send a plate of dinner that way later, no worries".
Or ....
"oh man .. I hate it that it's such a struggle to find someone to get her to the doc .. yea that's awful .. let me see .. looks like I'm open on Wednesday .. I'll go get her and get her there, not a problem".
The above is where I was, for a long long time. Hopping in to resolve whatever the problem was. LONG LONG TIME.
But not anymore.
It's like, I wish she'd just stop sharing the struggles she faces with it all. Why bother, unless it's because you think I will "engage" again. Stop sharing it with me.
Yea, it's going to be a nightmare at times .. a lotta times .. trying to manage it all from afar .. but this is what you have signed on for, it's your mom. Your decision.
But I'm done saying all that. It will just be a simple, "she needs more care". And that's it, nothing more. And she can twist in the wind as she then responds with something else about what she's done to try to resolve blank and blank problems but that this didn't work for that reason and so forth. Twisting in the wind.
Because I'm not going to jump in and solve it, that's the bottom line. So telling me about it, only then causes me to feel bad .. and feel as though I'm somehow being unkind and uncaring to refuse to do anything about it.
I know that isn't the case. They, all 3 of them, had in me .. for many many years .. a go-to, as to getting all this seen to. But .. IMO .. they should've long ago .. figured out what they'd do when things worsen. Their failure to do that, isn't on me any longer.
I do like that suggestion and I will keep posting as to what occurs.
No word at all from any corner thus far, and I like it that way.
And no, I haven't brought up MIL at all to DH. He was the one yesterday lamenting that his mother called him to report in on the mental sluggishness of this young man that was brought around to clean the yard for her, and that he'd not be a good candidate for hire as .. she'd heard me .. talking to this kid about that.
(I wasn't ever talking to the kid about being hired, .. I wouldn't do that, .. that's not my capacity in our company .. never has been). I was asking the kid whether he'd be available for day labor/odd jobs on an as need basis.
He was the one that brought that topic up .. and he was disgusted by it, .. only because he kinda feels like, (and he's right) .. his mother is no authority on who he hires or doesn't .. and who he might utilize from time to time .. and she really should keep her nose out of it.
I didn't say a lot when DH brought that up other than, "yea I told you the guy does appear to be a little slow .. that you'd have to really kinda watch to make sure he keeps a move-on . .and gets after it".
I think DH appreciates MY input perhaps .. on that topic .. but not so much is mom's, . and more to the point .. when he's already heard that input.
But I don't bring her up anymore to him. It's pointless and frustrating to do so.
Try not to ask your husband about his mother when he gets home from work; let him be the one to bring any discussion of her up You know what he is going to say if you do inquire, so don't set yourself up for disappointment because DH & SIL are not going to change by any effort you make; they have made that perfectly clear to you. She is staying in her home- that's their decision. Let it go!
You can't make them feel or do what you think needs to be done for MIL; it's a losing battle for you. Accept that and move on.
I know that you are probably feeling guilty about stepping out of it all. Don't. It's their mother not yours.
Make your choice but stick to it and be consistent. That's why I agree with not answering your SIL's texts but only once a week. For years those three have been happy to let you take the lead because you allowed it out of the goodness of your heart and b/o the good relationship you had with her prior to this.
You have done your part.
You have no say in anything at this point- you aren't her POA, nor a blood relative. What would fuel me is that no one respects your input anyway & that would make it easier for me to butt out. They aren't listening, why waste your time anymore?
The suggestion about answering "she needs more care" & "btw how is your husband?" as stated above is brilliant when you do reply to SIL.
Either 100% in or 100% out. Of course be cordial when speaking to MIL or SIL as you don't want to be mean. JMO.
I am a direct person with a low tolerance for bs. Beating around the bush - hinting and hoping just seems like a frustrating waste of time and energy.
How about "I'm happy to talk to you about anything besides MIL". Repeat that to any text as frequently as needed.
Barring that, I vote for no response.