I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
I think that's a profound question that can be asked of MIL "so what is you want?". I don't know that I'm prepared for the him haw of it all, as to any answer she might give. I'm willing to bet her answer would fall along the lines of a bunch of, "well I know that I must work to get stronger here ... ", all a circuitous way of saying she's not going anywhere. Don't know that I'm prepared for that dialogue, nor should it be in my lap to have that conversation.
I think the question remains at this point, after listening to DH and his sister bandy this about last night, .. it remains unanswered at this point, .. both seem to agree an ALF will be the end result .. whether that's where she lives, or here, remains unanswered. SIL seems to think it important that her mother's placement be where she can be more hands on as to the setting and so forth. That means a move to where she lives. SIL herself said it though, "I'm not sure she can even travel .. I can't even imagine her being able to travel". SIL also throwing in, "I don't know .. I ponder the change in climate there, .. I mean there's her dog .. that's going to be a problem no matter where she lands .. first off finding a facility that will allow she bring her dog .. she won't depart from that dog, that dog is her life .. but .. even if we could find one that will allow her to bring her dog, she has to be able to go outside and walk the dog, and clean up the dog's excrement .. she can't do that .. here .. she can let the dog into the b'yard .. she never go out there, she can't get out there .. if she was in an ALF somewhere she'd have to be able to go out and take the dog out and clean up it's mess .. and dispose of it .. but not only that, the climate change, the culture .. people are different in the midwest than in the south .. leaving her environment .. I just don't know .. I don't know which is the direction to take ...
So there seems to be this hanging in the balance, unanswered question of whether to strive for a move .. 1K miles away to SIL's home, where then SIL will house her, and ultimately placement there.
I posed the question, "does anyone even know if she'd be required to prove residency in your state to qualify for a Medicaid bed?, have you looked into that?". SIL's answer, "ya know, I don't know the answer to that, .. I mean what happens if you just were kind enough to bring your mother in to live with you, and then found it's not suitable, .. are they really going to make you prove her as a resident of the state, before they will find a bed for her?". I said, "well I guess if you can stroke a check to pay for it all, no .. maybe not .. but if you expect the gov't to pick up the tab, which is what this will ultimately be .. then yes .... I might would think that's a question that at least, needs an answer, before pondering whether she can even move to your home to live".
SIL talked of having found somewhere along the line . that her mother, because her dad was a Vet .. she qualifies for $1k a month in aid of some sort, but that she has to chase down that lead .. and get that in place.
I hesitate to get to vested in it all, when it's not known at this point, whether they would position her where SIL lives, or here ... and further, my getting vested in it all, just to see that SIL does what she always does, nurse her back to what she would call stable (I would not, I would call her situation, always .. thru and thru .. not sustainable) ... but just to watch SIL get her to what she would term as stable, and then march off to her home yet again.
I feel so bad for DH .. apparently somewhere along the line .. I don't know when, I don't have it marked on a calendar .. but the mother had said to both of them .. the words, "now don't you guys stick me in one of those places".
I can't imagine that DH would've been stupid enough to agree to that, "yes oh yes, poor dear mother, that will never be your fate" .... I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to utter those words. What if his mother is wheelchair bound and immobile and has to be lifted for bathing and toileting .. and spoon fed, ... one can never promise "oh absolutely dear parent, you will never have to worry of that as your fate, I will wipe your behind day and night .. and spoon fed you, and pick you up .. and put you on the commode and into the bathtub .. no no .. no absolutely banish that worry". How can anyone ever make that as a promise. Surely he didn't. I haven't asked him.
But listening to he and his sister talk last night, as he sat with his head slung low .. sadness .. and said the words, "I just think of mother thru the years .. asking that we never put her in *one of those places* ...". Fortunately sister countered that with, "well circumstances sometimes dictate that you have to do what you don't want to do".
I don't know, truly, ... I can be of help in this, I absolutely can .. I can begin to search some things out, I can begin to make some phone calls, set apps to go look at and talk to those in the know on this topic .. and I will .. but I need clarity before doing so. Are you guys posing she move 1K miles away to your home first ... are you guys wanting placement here .. let's at least get a ball rolling somewhere in all of this, rather than all wringing our hands.
Asking MIL herself .. I'm betting you'd just get a bunch of him haw .. as I said .. all indicative she intends to work to get stronger, "Okay mother, that sounds wonderful .. and yes you must do that .. but I'm talking longer term .. your doctor that attended to your case in the hospital indicated to you the time is now to start looking at ALF .. where would you like that to be, nearer your daughter .. or here locally .. do you think you are up for travel or can be ... ".
Response to that (I know her well) would still be a lot of hooha .. about "I have to get stronger here, I have to work to get stronger, I know what I must do". Me then countering, "yes .. as I said, that's great, but let's talk about what I asked .. can you talk to me some on that topic". It would still be more of the same hooha .. "well I just must get stronger here, and work so that I can get around". No answer, around in circles.
And yes as to the dog, .. the dog was getting MIL up 2 and 3 x's nightly .. routinely, even before any of this. The dog is like, I think, 10 years old, small dog .. small bladder I presume .. and so MIL was getting up 2 and 3 x's nightly .. go turn off the house alarm (her ambling along on her walker, thru the house in the middle of the night) then over to the b'door to let the dog out, wait for the dog to go do it's biz .. then get the dog back in, go re-arm the house security, back to the bed .. ambling along ever so slowly .. and then back in the bed, and then up again .. this goes on nightly.
It's just now, MIL is not ambulatory and SIL is here to do it .. not only that ... SIL helping MIL now to ambulate out of the bed when she herself needs to get to the potty at night.
And no, I don't think for a minute .. MIL in the yellow bedroom that her dutiful son will be the one to get up in the middle of the night 2 and 3 and more times to help with the dog and with the mother .. not a chance in hades will that happen. It would be me doing so.
Personally, I would do whatever I had to do at this point, to convince mother that the dog needs to go to a good home, where he can be well cared for .. and make sure the dog is no longer part of what puts a ball and chain on all this. But .. their mother, that dog is her world .. I mean .. to the point of absolute ridiculousness. I can't imagine they could sell that ever, "we're going to take your dog". Might as well open her up without anesthesia and rip her heart out.
No, AL won't prevent MIL from falling. But she WILL be in an environment where falls are prevented by grab rails, proper flooring, alert necklaces/wristbands and assistance in the shower. Also, her medication compliance will be monitored.
MIL is ready to go, it sounds like. Ask her the next time you see her what she'd like the plan to be, and if she's ready to communicate it to her children.
"... hospitalist had said to MIL that she needs to realize she dodged a big bullet this time, and may not the next time, that she needs to realize what she's been doing as living arrangement, .. is no longer sustainable, and she needs to begin to look at options for ALF. Said MIL wasn't opposed, and listened."
So SIL must have been the one who got MIL released to what is soon to be an unsafe living environment.
"SIL was up 4 x's last night, between the dog that needed out 2 x's .. and the MIL needing to go to the bathroom 2 x's and needing assistance."
So the caregiver also has to get up at night with the dog? Is this the dog's usual routine -- to have to be taken out twice during the night?
"It was kinda left that DH was pressing her that's the direction it has to take .. and that he will do whatever she can think of to begin to peek into some of those doors as to what needs to transpire."
Why does H have to wait for SIL to give him direction on this to begin to "peek into some of those doors"? H can look into ALFs and the Medicaid qualification in Florida on his own (perhaps with your help, as you've said before that you would be willing to help some in this regard). It's quite obvious that this isn't really in SIL's plan for the immediate future. She's still thinking MIL will live with her, and from there possibly an ALF near SIL.
"... he asked me again, 'can't she come here, .. can't we help her?'."
Oboy. He just doesn't give up, does he? Can't "we" help her? He means can't "YOU" help her? He'll be off, working and then churching, and YOU will be left to do all the hands-on care (which of course you know and have stated here). Is he really going to get up multiple times/night with her and her dog? Honestly, he has some nerve.
OP, maybe take some of the advice you are given. What Surprise had to say seemed pretty accurate.
This thread is exactly what happened with my
family, and then my husband’s family a few years later.
If we can help Dorker get through this absolute roller coaster of a ride, then we’re here to do so.
I know that I am invested in this thread & here to offer an ear if nothing else. I’ve been there.
I can also seriously relate because after my mother’s fall and her subsequent demise 2 yrs later, my own mother in law’s saga began. Found wandering down her street in the middle of the night in her pajamas, neighbors went out & brought her back home and called her son.
Not having much to give emotionally after going through the very recent three years of sadness, helplessness and then the passing of my mother (who was my best friend in a way), I saw it begin again with DH’s mother.
I couldn’t do it for MIL. Wasn’t my place as she is not my mother, and did not feel guilty about it either. After finally being placed in a assisted living facility my husband asks me why I won’t accompany him to see his mother (who has dementia so badly now that she forgets her son just visited). I just can’t do it again. I truly feel detached from her & her situation. Now I see the anguish in my DH’s eyes and voice when he discusses his mother and you know what? While it’s sad for him, he never quite understood what my brother & I went through those last years of my mom’s life. He too is self employed and thus put himself in the position of never being able to take time off while I had to hightail it up to NJ at least every three months or so, alone.
This woman (MIL) with her acid tongue over the years who enjoyed her self designated “martyr” status to be able to use her words to purposely hurt people. The opposite of my own mother but both “depression babies”. I couldn’t relate to her much.
I’m talking too much now & will get to the point. My husband didn’t really understand what it is like to take care of an ailing parent until now that he has his own. And it was & is a shock to him & his siblings, but theirs to figure out.
I can relate so much to Dorker with MIL’s kids being in denial, that now has to deal with the inevitable fact that their mother can’t live alone and it’s up to them to figure out the next move, and their mother probably won’t like the end result. Similar to my MIL, her kids didn’t want to take her in their homes but didn’t want to take away her independence ( her home) either.
Well, the house was sold and MIL sits in a ALF in the memory unit on Long Island, quickly eating up MIL’s resources.
My last contribution? Asking DH if his siblings have pre-paid MIL’s funeral, as this really needs to be done. Answer: no. I asked him to speak about this to MIL’s POA (eldest son) but DH will not. Believe me, when the Good Lord takes her is not the time for 3 siblings that always disagree about something to get MIL out of AL to the funeral home. To date nothing has been put in place & MIL will be 94 in May.
So, this thread interests me.
Also opened my eyes to the state of hospitals & Medicare rules. I did not understand this “observation only” issue. Which as Dorker said, facilitates the patient going back home to an unsafe environment vs go to rehab for strengthening. That is an eye opener.
I will follow this thread until the end and root for our home team girl Dorker while her “journey” plays out.
It a thread that So many of us can relate to, and in following it, we all learn from it as well, and it is so nice to see that the OP has had much support, feedback and suggestions to help her through this intolerable situation. This poor lady was at her Wits End, and she's needed our support!!!
If the content of the thread is of no interest to you, then No, you don't need to follow it, but don't throw barbs, its unnecessary. Let our friend Dorker see this problem through with the support of her peer's here, and let's all hope that eventually there is a positive outcome for All!
I know that I was in a similar situation with my own FIL, so incredibly exhausted by having my life hijacked with many many years of dealing his Narcissistic personality (heck, I didn't even know what Narcissism was until I came on here and learned about it!), his deteriorating health, no help from other family members, my own declining health, and Severe Caregivers Burnout, and the support I received here was invaluable to me!
So I don't look at this thread as Only One Persons Take on what to do when faced with the untenable situation of elderly parents, as many of us here have become faced with these exact same problems, can totally relate and feel so desperately alone when they aren't getting the family support, and they don't know Where to turn.
So Seriously, it Is a Serious Problem, that So Many of Us Can Relate To, and I'm looking forward to seeing Dorker's situation come to a Positive Outcome for her MIL, and the Entire Family!!! Hang in there Love!!! I'll Stay Tuned!!!
Okay, I'll walk away now and check in again after the 1 millionth post, see if anything has been resolved. Toodle loo!!
I think she knows it's time. I think she knows it would be safer. I think the brother and sister and all the witnesses stand about hand wringing and are focusing on what mthr said over and over **BEFORE** she said it was time to move, before she came to terms with her own frailty.
What if - daring now - someone had the gumption to ask MIL **IN FRONT OF DH and SIL**, "When do you want to move into the nursing home until you get better? Your children can't keep going like this." Would all hell break loose?
It seems to me there is all this pussyfooting around avoiding the elephant in the room so we don't risk upsetting the applecart. Why won't someone be an adult? Dorker, the granddaughters, anyone - who can speak the verboten words without the earth swallowing her up? Who's not afraid of a little anger?
She can at least get up now, with assistance, .. (can't do it alone) .. without tears.
Had an interesting conversation with the daughter this afternoon. I'm the one that took her to the airport, to return home, SIL's daughter. SIL's daughter had come in town for xmas .. and ended up caregiving duty here. Something foreign to her, .. and she's never been known to be much of a nurturer.
She was actually probably pretty good for the situation in that, she's really no nonsense at her core, .. and not all that sympathetic. As such, .. MIL told she needs to get up more, .. she was trying to encourage, and be a part of making that happen. Getting her to sit up in the bedroom chair today .. for a little bit.
On the way to the airport, .. her telling me the hospitalist had said to MIL that she needs to realize she dodged a big bullet this time, and may not the next time, that she needs to realize what she's been doing as living arrangement, .. is no longer sustainable, and she needs to begin to look at options for ALF. Said MIL wasn't opposed, and listened.
The niece then asking me, "what are we going to do with granny?". I said, "it's not up to me, .. I've had a lot to say about it, but my voice doesn't get a vote in any of this".
Her words, "I don't really think it's going to be a good option that she come and live with my mom and dad. My mom will work herself (she's right) til she's falling down and granny has a propensity to be mean to my dad and that's not fair to my dad, I think she really does need to be looking at ALF's".
I told her I agree with that sentiment and have said so . numerous times .. the holdback has been MIL and her absolute staunch refusal to entertain that notion .. that she's fine, she will manage. Niece repeating the same things I've said, .. "but she really can't, not anymore .. we've kinda rode that horse til it can ride anymore .. she really can't manage .. and yea it's sad .. but we're not the only ones that have faced this decision and I'm sure it's never easy for anyone, .. but .. you have to realize that her safety is what is paramount here, .. and then of course, my mom .. and her ability to do this .. she can't keep doing this .. and them having to pause their lives .. and fly down here every few months for all the pitfalls in it all . .and I know you guys .. you do what you can .. when she isn't here .. but it's not fair to you guys either .. and granny has to realize that when her life becomes so impactful to others and their existence, they get a vote at that point .. in what happens as to her situation.
I told her, "M you are preaching to the choir here, these are all things I've said and said and said, .. the holdout has been MIL and her refusal to even entertain any notion of that sort".
M then repeating, .. she didn't seem to rule it out when the hospitalist mentioned it, so maybe .. I think this fall, .. it got her attention .. she has said this fall .. it's not like anything she's ever experienced.
DH's sister is past going, she is worn out. I told DH that he needs to take a shift this weekend. SIL was up 4 x's last night, between the dog that needed out 2 x's .. and the MIL needing to go to the bathroom 2 x's and needing assistance. She is worn out .. absolutely about to cause her own health some issues.
MIL does not need to be home, she needs to be in the hospital. Told SIL that and she said . they won't keep her, .. her condition at this point is just sore from a fall, . that isn't worthy of a hospital stay . the coding of same .. I guess .. and that "chronic" conditions don't qualify .. the fact that she is someone already compromised by stroke/balance/mobility issues, not a qualifier for a hospital stay, or "inpatient status".
SIL said she discussed all that line of thought with the OT that came today. The OT said that it's a huge problem .. the fact that hospitals no longer admit and keep people, unless they fit these tight criteria. They put them "outpatient" and that precludes any further stay and they are pushed trying to help put people back together, people that shouldn't even be at home. The OT said she has a case .. someone with a broken pelvis that didn't qualify for a further stay.
What the hell?
I don't know what to believe anymore. I wasn't there on the scene, to see if indeed it was SIL persuading that they let her go .. or if it truly is as SIL describes, impossible to get an "inpatient" admit anymore these days.
As to the hospitals we have here. We have several. One of them is the indigent hospital .. but oddly enough has the Trauma center for the whole region .. one of the best Trauma units anywhere in the region. But you wouldn't go there for anything else.
We have a few other major hospitals here. One of which, MIL wouldn't go to with a broken finger. It's where her husband met his demise .. his last days. And so I guess in her warped mind, .. they were at least in part, .. to blame ..???...she wouldn't go there with a stubbed toe. Another of the major hospitals . .geographically not desirable, but a major hospital.
Another major hospital . the one where MIl was confined the last time .. she wants nothing to do with them. This because she was confined there the last hospitalization and they had her on a bed alarm (fall risk). Had a bedside commode for her use .. and she was to call for help before exiting the bed, which she did do. They told her they'd step outside, but to call before getting off the bedside commode. She didn't do so, .. she got up off the commode, was caught doing so, and the personnel their freaked out (understandably so, they don't want her falling on their watch). To hear MIL tell it, they treated her very demeaning like .. and fussed at her (of course they did, she'd been instructed not to do that). To hear her tell it, .. she was treated like cattle .. and she's not just a number, she's a human .. and they didn't handle that very well, fussing at her.
Thus, she wants nothing to do with that hospital again.
That rules out two of the major hospitals here (the other geographically an issue).
This latest stay was at the Mayo Hospital located here. She was better pleased with the setting there, and service, etc. No opposition.
I don't think it's that we have hospitals that are somehow less than what they need to be. I do question whether all hospitals all across the country are grappling with this, that they can't admit and keep patients because of the Medicare rules. If that's the case, Medicare has found a nice loop right on out of the Rehab stay path. Which is where MIL needs to be.
Had a talk with DH when he came in, relating to him what his niece had to say, and that he needs to offer to take a shift for his sister who is worn to a nub.
We went out there for a while tonight and visited and DH took over, and SIL was able to go take a shower, and watch something with her husband, on the TV .. and have just a little small break. He did offer to come this weekend, and I don't know what she said.
He also pressed her on what direction this is going to take, that she can't be left alone any longer, but that he isn't wishing for the direction of her home, . .she can't keep doing this, she's going to be the next one down for the count. That he wants to explore ALF's and how can he help to make that happen .. at least begin looking in that direction.
SIL himmed and hawed, .. "well she's injured right now, and so I'm just in survival mode at this point, .. I'd brought my paperwork that I've gathered.. and my intention had been to get past the initial doc appts., then xmas .. and then get that paperwork out and begin to explore some of that whole option .. but of course, we've now been sidelined by this .. and so I'm just in survival mode right now".
She went on to say how she got here, .. and found that MIL does okay .. she goes in, in the morning, while they are still sleeping (this is prior to the injury) and makes herself a bowl of cereal, lets the dog out, gets the dogs food and meds sorted out .. it's just that when she gets sick or injured .. she just can't manage alone".
Almost as if she was trying to continue justifying letting her continue status quo .. as she went on to say, "I mean the last several times I've been here there has been a crises of some sort, and I've gotten her back stable again .. ".
I then interjected, .. "yea but she falls all the time, .. she just hasn't been seriously hurt, yet .. but that's coming, as the hospitalist said".
She then interjected, "well what are they going to do at an ALF to keep her from falling, they don't follow them around 24/7, she could fall there, .. she could fall at my house".
I didn't say it, because i didn't want to say too much, but my thought was, "yea but the difference there is that there is a level of care, that doesn't then deploy you in that role".
DH pressing her, "she can't live alone anymore, she just can't .. I will help .. I will do whatever I can to help look at exploring that, .. but I have to work .. I'm not retired .. I can't be here for the hands on care like you have to be, and it's not fair to you .. and it's going to be your downfall and I can't have my sister and my mom both down .. what happens if you go down?, I'll do what I can .. if you want that we go and talk to some of these homes and begin to get some doors open as to what direction to take, I will do it .. but we need to be looking at that angle".
She said this: "Well I had hoped to maybe get her up to my house .. and get my house situated to house her .. and then from there, work to get her into an ALF .. it's kinda important that she not be far away from me, so I can keep a finger on the pulse of what's going on, my good friend Louise has had to move her mom 3 x's .. I can't bethat far away that I can't be involved .. so that had been my hope .. but I"m questioning at this point, whether she will even be fit to travel .. I just don't know".
It was kinda left that DH was pressing her that's the direction it has to take .. and that he will do whatever she can think of to begin to peek into some of those doors as to what needs to transpire.
Oh and BTW, .. as I sat earlier, before telling him about it all, before we went out there, he asked me again, "can't she come here, .. can't we help her?".
Again I answered, "I love you .. you know that .. but I cannot do that for you .. that's a deal breaker .. I will not stay here and become her f/t cartaker .. she is incontinent at times, she is certainly angry and combative and mean at times, .. she is a fall risk .. I'm not a trained medical person .. and that's what she needs, no .. I won't do that".
He hung his head low, at the sadness. I think for him, . that ole .. I guess .. the mother somewhere having said to the both of them .. "don't you guys throw me in one of those places", .. rearing it's ugly head as a necessity at this point .. and his inability to get me to budge.
So .. I don't know, I don't hold out any hope even still.
I think SIL .. will do as she always does .. work herself beyond the point of going .. and get her mom (semi) stable and be gone again .. with the promise to return to bring her to her home, 1K miles away in the spring .. only for more calamities to befall the whole thing ..
As far as the visiting nurse is concerned a RN can do more than take vitals. she is supposed to look at the patient as a whole and although not allowed to make an actually diagnosis she should notify the Dr of what she has seen and make suggestions if he is not too swift on the uptake, if she listens to the lungs and hears funny noises she can report "crackles in right bas" but is not allowed to describe it as pneumonia.
One of the reasons for getting MIL out of bed is to prevent blood clots in her legs which can travel to the lungs and may kill her instantly. but before doing that the scource of the pain needs to be identified.
Did H go to his church board meeting last night? Has he spent time at MIL's house?
A visiting nurse is NOT qualified to really do more than take vitals, encourage moving, and well, basically, assess the pt and walk away. She/he isn't going to suggest further testing or anything. She can't prescribe. She also probably sees 8 patients a day and they all kind of blur together. Sadly elderly patients are notoriously non-compliant.
Bottom line, one way or the other, this is the end of MIL's domineering ways. If she can't open a blind w/o falling...what hope is there of "managing" on her own? Zip. SIL and DH are either going to step up and man the front or not. Dorker can't/shouldn't/better not be doing it.
I kind of wonder at the hospital she goes to.....it sounds....sketchy. For lack of a better word. Maybe the next fall, try a new hospital. Is that crazy?? I know my hubby was in a horrific motorcycle accident (should have died, but didn't) went by ambulance to the hospital nearest us (he was in and out of consciousness and didn't even know what was going on) they took him there...and "checked him out" within 2 hours. He came home and was ambulanced IMMEDIATELY to another hospital--with a severe concussion, internal bleeding, torn ligaments in his hip---he very nearly died from the first hospital's lack of care----so, although these were "sister hospitals" the first one didn't even X-Ray his HEAD!!! Just saying--the level of care MIL is getting may not be the best for her?? And she's going to wind up there again, we all know that.
The ONLY way you're getting her into a SNF is through a hospital stay of 3+ days. THE. ONLY. WAY.
All the best---what a way to celebrate the holidays :(
However - could fear of another fall be exasperating the situation?
I would've thought something else is wrong here, .. maybe not a broken rib .. or maybe it just hasn't shown up on xray yet ... but something is wrong, .. she's in too much pain to be able to even function.
But the visiting nurse, .. I don't know how she makes that determination, other than access to the medical records maybe, and a check of vitals .. and so forth .. but she is encouraging MIL to get up out of bed .. more than she is seemingly able to do.
I know that's a good thing .. one can't just lay in the bed, particularly at her age .. she will atrophy fast doing that. Obviously if she can do it, if she will do it, it will be to her advantage to do so. But it sounded to me (I haven't been there) like it's too painful for her.
I don't know why they didn't do an MRI or CT or anything there, to make sure there is no other damage .. but what do I know.
SIL reports the dermo doc called, and I guess some area they ck'd on her leg, .. it has turned out to be squamous cell carcinoma .. and so .. she'd already been there, and I guess, .. they do whatever they do, and remove it .. but now it looks like it will need the MOHS procedure on that spot. Familiar with that, .. had that done myself on a Melanoma on my arm, a few years back. But they said she can wait, since she is convalescing at this point, from a fall.
But .. what they hey? I'd of thought something else is wrong here, they just didn't find it ... not yet. But I guess, I'm wrong .. and they are encouraging that she fight thru it and get up and move more.
I feel for all of you. I'm so frustrated just reading about how your H and SIL are handling it.
You may be correct Dorker. The more eyes on the situation the less SIL could control. But we’ll never know.
Thinking back on what DH said that his sister can’t do it all....who’s been doing the other half? Not him, thank you very much.
I’d proceed with your Holiday business and let them all hash it out. If they want your help they will ask for it. To be polite, drop over if you want.
I am thinking that maybe brother & sister have been discussing MIL’s care and making you the bad guy as you “refuse” to allow MIL in the yellow room. That’s what I got from you & DH’s conversation the other night. They are figuring they can wear you down.
Oh family dynamics! Such a joy.
I didn't correct her because I didn't know. She maybe should know, but you can't depend on her to know much these days.
If SIL was in the room, maybe she knew better and would've corrected that.
I too am beginning to wonder if SIL didn't orchestrate that a discharge to home be the order of the day. I don't know why she'd do that, .. since she is going to be the one now with hands on care in it all. Unless it's to keep "less eyes" on this situation. The more "eyes" that have a hand/say in any of it all, the more it might get spoken by someone that actually matters, .. this isn't good .. she can no longer live alone. That's the only reason I could think of why she'd do something to direct things in this way. She is sure paying the price for it though, mightily.
The Home Health Nurse has contacted them, .. and I'm sure will be now coming by.
I guess I'm hanging it all on the fact that if it's all as tenuous as it seems to me, that will be picked up on by the Home Health Nurse .. and I guess .. if this needs further directing .. that communication can transpire between Home Health Nurse and SIL. As it should be.
I haven't asked how things are going today. Doesn't matter, because I'm not in the thick of it all, so .. why bother asking.
I know when I was last there, which was yesterday evening, all that I described was at play .. her unable to do anything to help herself, .. other than sit on the side of the bed to eat a bite .. after having been helped to an upright position to do so.
So now SIL is moving MIL and lifting her and she (SIL) has BACK PROBLEMS???
H has a church board meeting, and he is prioritizing that over his own mother.
I am just shaking my head over this bunch. Dorker, I am so glad you set your boundaries firmly and have stuck to them.
D, keep this in mind. Your SIL and DH's inability to plan for the bleedin'obvious does not translate into your having to manage this show.
Can she sleep on the couch?
Dorker I don’t even know why you give suggestions anymore. No one listens. They are going to say that if you know so much, why don’t you take over?
Which is of course is what they are yearning for you to do.
Home care can order a hospital bed but need to get the order from her PCP, who should be called and kept in the loop. He may even want to admit her.
Maybe one of the sibs can call over there & get that order sent to a DME provider, but make sure the company is on the Medicare provider list.
They are being truly obtuse now - both of them (DH & SIL).
While nothing appears to be broken, she could have sprained a hip bursa which is darned painful. Or moved a certain way to sprain a muscle in her back.
What an opportunity missed. 2.5 days on “observation “ with no admission.
The wheelchair being the right height was also used as her favorite kitchen chair as she could go from lift chair in her den by walker to wheelchair in her kitchen for meals.
MIL needs a better hospital to go to. Yes it is inconvenient but we got such better care for mom there and in the long run it was more efficient.
If MIL will accept home health and pt on a continuing basis she could possibly recover and continue at home a little longer.
My mom lived at home until she died.
The fall could have happened anywhere. Yes it’s essier on the family if they are not at home.
DH should pack a bag and go when M leaves to stay at his mothers until she is better. Much easier on MIL than coming to the yellow bedroom. He should be there with SIL to care for their mother. Get her going with the care team. Understand her meds etc.
Then he would have a better idea of what is possible going forward.
If he wants to rotate care with SIL he can just stay at his mothers when she is in Florida.
Perhaps you would make meals and do the laundry for them Dorker?
They have to all three work this out.
DH isn’t 1000 miles away. He could allow his sister a good nights sleep while they sort this out and give more than lip service to this situation. He can’t see it but he appears to think only the women are being difficult in this situation. If only his sister would discuss the situation. If only you wouid step back up. He needs to get in the game himself He is still in denial it sounds like to me. Probably SIL not so much anymore.