I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
I couldn't agree with you more. Life is hard for all us fixers and doers. I find it hard to sit back but sometimes I am worn out trying to be the good one. Thank you for your words.
Dorker, sending my support and thoughts.
I, too, am a charter member of the “Why Can’t These Bozos See What I See?” club.
Decades of jaw-clenching and insomnia to show for it. And I can out-sigh any horse or breaching whale.
Dorker, you are blessedly self-aware. Kudos to you for such a good streak of saying the right things to the “audience.” Then coming here to let it all hang out!
So let me leave you with this. Not a solution. Just a shared whine.
It is SO FRUSTRATING to deal with people who are “waiting for the magic.” Every conversation goes nowhere because they are waiting for some X Factor to swoop in and right all the wrongs.
Every conversation also goes nowhere because these folks value their denial more than they value their support system. Or what’s left of their support system after they have Worn Us The F**k Out.
And “do-ers” like us have to fight so hard (internally) to not jump up and be the fixer. After all, we’re the only ones who see it clearly. From the edge of the rabbit hole. 😐
Big hugs, Dorker! You are doing a great job — with yourself and with them.
Don’t let the b*st*rds get you down. 👍🏼
You obviously care about your MILs well being and hate the roller coaster that DH and SIL let mom get on and ride to crisis. Have you ever thought about calling APS after SIL leaves and MIL is hitting crisis mode? You can do that anonymously and it would start the process of MIL being evaluated by 3rd party. Some parents have damaged their children to the point that in that parents presence they will never be an adult, period. From what I have read on here this could be the case, in which someone besides family needs to intervene.
You keep on keepin on, you can do this. We all hit bumps and fall down (d**n) be kind to yourself and forgiving when you forget to hold on and hit the ground😁.
My dad's caregivers tell him it's okay to not use his cane, they'll catch him if he falls (300# man), I refuse to take him without it, he of course, tells me Serena would do it, so I say "I promise you that the floor will catch you every time." Sometimes caregivers make it really hard by giving false expectations to elders, I know that if his 120# caregiver caught him she would be the one at ER. Some people only learn by pain, I think your MIL and SOL fall in that category.
I've been told, in the past, (and it's true), I have a real propensity to hang onto things/stuff. Not good. If someone has wronged me for instance, I can hold a grudge like nobody's business. Serves no one. Even when the offender has apologized .. I can still, hold a grudge. Not good, and I know it, and I do work to change it.
The dead horse thing .. beating a dead horse, .. I guess falls along that same continuum. Thus the reason I rarely even ask DH any questions on the whole thing, .. no need to *beat a dead horse*. If there's anything to know, I'm sure it'll land soon enough. I don't ask, .. not really, not like I used to. I certainly don't call SIL and ask her, "so what's new, you guys have some plan in place at this point?". Nope. Why bother.
I will *let it go* for sure. I think I'd done a pretty good job of shelving it all, .. for the most part, or least not letting it fester to the point it frustrated me. But .. this latest .. when DH and Son in law were just reporting having been there to clear gutters for MIL .. that kinda brought it all up again. And no, I don't even think it will help to say to DH, "listen . I don't wanna hear a thing about it all, don't even talk to me about any of the goings on", only because when you know nothing at all, your imagination then takes hold.
I just have to be mindful of my fault of holding onto things and allowing them to amp my own emotions up. And work to rid myself of it.
I am a dead horse beater also. Not as bad as when I was younger but if I have to reign myself in often!
I often think when others are trying to advise me “ if I want your opinion I’ll ask for it”. So I TRY to take that into account before I open my mouth. It’s hard! Very, Very hard!
I have a really bad habit- personality trait, whatever - in that when I KNOW I am right about something - something that others/another don’t see - can’t see, I will tell them my point of view. Okay, that’s not so terribly bad. But where my problem kicks in, is after I tell them my opinion and they don’t/can’t see what I see and don’t agree with me.
I am the proverbial dead horse beater. I think to myself “how can they not see it? I must be explaining it wrong. I’ll reword it and try again”. And on I go. On and on... unable to let it go.
I honestly am not coming from a bad place when I do this. And, truly it isn’t a case of me thinking I’m all that - that I’m ALWAYS right and they are wrong. I go into it trying to be helpful - thinking I’m doing them a service... if only they could see what I am seeing.
Fact of the matter is - I’m not always right, often there is more than one way to look at things - and finally - some people just don’t want to hear/see it - what I am seeing.
It’s been a tough trait to overcome. But, I think at least in this area - a certain amount of life experience ie old age has finally taught me that that old proverb is true - “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”. That - and the fact that I don’t always have the answers or really see and know more than any other person. Finally - that somethings are just none of my business or concern.
Now, if I think it’s appropriate- I’ll give my opinion- ONCE. Then I let it go. It’s hard, I know - the letting go. Especially in your situation, Dorker- as this whole cluster-F does impact YOUR life.
I guess my only piece of advice- which I’ll not beat with a stick - is try redirecting your thoughts when the whole situation comes to mind. I say to myself “nope. Not going there. No more thinking of that today. Instead, I’m going to think about...”
(1) your husband really does think that if push came to shove, you would "help" him out as you have in the past.
(2) you are grieving relationships that turned out not to be what you thought they were, and the emotional energy that you invested was not in the relationship you thought they were (MIL and SIL both).
(3) you are looking at something that I am looking at. When your health declines or there is need for help, will your husband take the same "hands off" approach with you? I'm watching my husband's behavior with his parents, his aunt, his (now deceased) grandparents, our disabled but high functioning son...My husband is very competent at his job. He will go help various persons with a list of tasks. He is not a feelings person. He is not a personal life planner. He will leave the majority of things to ME to plan and fix. And it's terrifying to think that I'M responsible for it long-term when I thought that it would be joint decisions and responsibility.
Having to kinda find my way back at this point to the peace and centering I had achieved. It fell off the rails. I guess in the latest that DH and son in law were imparting having been there, to clear gutters.
It doesn't take much .. for me to ratchet back to a level of anger and frustration that isn't healthy. Frustrating, because logically .. I can tell myself, *you are no longer in the thick of it all, so let it go*. But .. the emotions that come with the whole thing, they don't .. as easily ... dissipate. Unfortunately.
I find myself back in the space of pondering ... how can SIL not see that she does not manage .. sans her presence there. How can she not see that?!?!?!!? She's there, living/breathing/eating it, daily .. how can she possibly think it's gonna be a "oh she's managing okay now", and off she goes again. HOW?!??!?! It angers me.
I don't know that to be the case, but the absence of any *horse's mouth* knowledge on it all, leads me to believe the status quo will be the path forward. Work to get MIL "stable" (if you wanna call it that) and off she'll go again. Yes I can tell myself the *logical* things that come with reasoning on it all.
a) doesn't matter, you're out of it, Dorker, .. so what does it matter what they decide to do, if the earth opens up and swallows the whole thing into it .. it's still not your wagon to pull, so let it go.
b) you aren't the one living it daily .... SIL is. So .. the ole saying *if you aren't gonna be part of the solution, then don't be part of the problem*, .. also comes into play as I try to rationalize with myself over it all.
I tell myself .. surely in the months that SIL has been here, she's had ample opportunity to get real frank with her mom, about her concerns over her mom's well being .. and to push the agenda that her mother needs to be where she can be looked after, .. be that a facility, be that SIL's home .. whatever it is. Surely that has transpired, .. there's certainly been ample one-on-one time to do so.
But I don't know, at all, that the above has taken place. For all I know, .. SIL is so mired in the daily hamster wheel that is all things MIL's life .. there has been no dialogue at all. And .. SIL intends to stablize things and off she goes again.
And that brings me to the conclusion, .. not my circus, not my monkey.
So then .. why the falling off the rails here, as to my own mindset with it all? That is what I am now trying to work my way through, yet again.
Feelings of frustration and anger over what is so clear to me. The one option that should not be on the table, is that MIL is left alone to *Now I will manage here, I know what I need to do and I'll do it*. That is the one option that shouldn't even be up for consideration.
Feelings of frustration and anger over the apparent loss of what was once a friendship between SIL and myself. Or at least I thought so, for many years.
Frustrations that DH is so firmly entrenched on the sidelines of it all and not advocating as to his mom's best interests, to his mom .. AND .. to his sister. No, he is firmly, there is an indent on the bleachers where he sits and watches from afar.
I have to now figure my way back out of all the frustration I am feeling over it. I will do it, .. yet again .. find my way out of the emotional stake in it all.
If MIL won't agree to ever go into a facility (or, sounds like, move to IL with SIL), then both SIL and H need to let her suffer the consequences.
Actually, it sounds like H might have the healthier attitude here. He's made it pretty clear that he won't do anything (and does nearly nothing, correct?) to enable MIL's desired lifestyle.
SIL is more problematic, since she tries so hard to get MIL to take care of herself. And then leaves the scene. So she's a bigtime enabler while she's around (and tries to be via the telephone when she's in IL).
MIL is a long way from being declared incompetent, I suspect. So (just as with my mother), let her do her own thing but don't enable her.
In the US, the disease (in this case, simple aging with its accompanying medical problems) has the civil rights over the person. It's not easy to declare an elder incompetent (unless it's really obvious; lots of folks in the gray area out there).Same with mental health. It's a very high bar for involuntary commitment, which often means honoring the civil rights OF THE DISEASE.
It will be difficult, I admit, since Dorker and her H are local to MIL.
It's also difficult for me, since my mother should not be living alone. But she insists, and I refuse to enable (beyond a certain point, as I was ordered to be her Dummy Daughter Driver in exchange for giving me her car and I complied to prevent a meldtown). I will not be her free personal caregiver (she needs someone to monitor her showers and to help her get dressed at this point). Actually, she doesn't want that, either. I'm sure I would be screamed at and shamed if I said I would do any of for pay. (I would demand $20/hour.) But I would come for just an hour, and she probably won't find any agency that would send help for just an hour. So she'd end up paying a LOT more. So be it. I don't think she will ever pay for help, nor go to an Assisted Living facility. If she ends up in a facility, it will be a SNF and she will have no choice.
If she'd be nicer and more appreciative of me, I would do more for her.
Having seen how decisively my brother chose to stick his head in the sand over my mother's living situation, doing precisely nothing to contribute but later on being very free with his critical hindsight... oof. Just a lot of sore feelings there for me. Suffice to say it wasn't a lot of help.
Your position is clear. You are right. Stick to it.
I should rely only on what you hear directly from the various horses' mouths. Trying to guess what's really happening at second hand, and even more trying to work out HOW they can not ask the glaringly obvious questions when they're right there on the scene looking at it, will drive you round the bend. If there's a practical problem with anything to be done about it you'll hear quite soon enough - and it still won't be your problem.
For me, this is about what's best for MIL .. and her well being. Shouldn't that be of paramount concern to her son also?
Apparently not.
He doesn't have a clue what the latest is, nor does he even care to enter into any dialogue on the topic.
I guess, .. the hope is still there that Dorker will re-enter the whole thing, if SIL goes away and leaves status quo.
Not going to happen.
DH and our son in law (they work together daily) were by MIL's the other day to clean out her gutters.
Me: "Oh, how was your mom?, is she doing okay".
Responses from DH and son in law: "Yea, she seemed to be doing alright.".
Son in law then chimes in with the following having been there: "SIL talking of some kinda *palliative care* .. I don't know, some kinda something to bring someone in around the clock ... having just been thru that with my stepdad's aged father .. they have no idea what that expense is gonna look like, .. said .. it's cheaper than a nursing home ... but .. I don't think they know what that expense looks like. I don't know. They said something about maybe, what they'll do is spend winters here in FL, and summers in IL .. who knows what they plan ... maybe she's gonna off and go and leave MIL like she always does".
(Mind you, I didn't ask for this input .. it just lands .. )
Me: "Oh really? ... glad she's doing well, .. (talking to DH now) ... the only reason she's doing so well, you know .. it's because SIL is there, doing everything for her, making sure shes' taking her meds, eating, hydrating, etc. .. your sister goes away and it all falls off the rails".
DH: "Yep .. Sister is there doing every living thing for her!".
Me: No talk of what their plans are, March is approaching, .. nobody said anything about plans to go to IL
DH: "No".
Me: "Nobody mentioned anything about that label for a service dog .. have they gotten that done?"
DH: "No .. I don't know .. maybe they have, I don't know".
And that sums it up. That's what sideline sitting looks like. That's what my .. stepping back and trying not to be mired in it all looks like.
No answers.
It's maddening and yes it's hard to bite my tongue.
Becoming more and more convinced status quo will be the order of the day as time marches on.
Doubtful she's made any plans to moving MIL with her, probably just trying to tread water in FL and will escape to IL as soon as MIL seems "stable". Then it will just be the same thing, but a new year. And of course the "no shot" twins are still twirling around making NO plans for MIL, going forward.
Dorker--I KNOW how hard it is to hold your tongue and be diplomatic with inlaws (and your OWN family, too) My MIL simply despises me, and I recently found out that IF hubby pre-deceases his mother, I will become her trustee. OMGoodness---she doesn't know this, and that's a good thing. She'd flip. HOWEVER--I have NEVER, EVER said a word to this woman to offend or hurt her. If this ever becomes the case, where I have to care for her, I will do so with the utmost dignity and care. I do not love her, but I also respect she is my hubby's mother and will treat her far more respectably than she has me.
{sigh} things are so weirdly complicated and they just don't NEED to be!
Hang in there. You're doing great!
It takes hard work and self awareness not to say something that may be construed as disrespectful.
I am happy your OD is coming around and able to take care of herself.
It is so hard to manage a mental illness especially in your nuclear family. I have a sibling with a deficit too.
It’s very difficult on every family member. My mother felt responsible and it was hard to reinforce that my brothers illness was not her fault.
I still think MIL will be left alone in her own home until March, when SIL may come to get her!
We’ll see...
Several ... SEVERAL years ago. MIL .. who .. in her heyday would always be one to be prone to be in others' business, as the 'savior' of all things troubling. It's just who she was.
One of our daughters, the oldest .. I'm not even sure what her correct dx should have been, but when I tell you the girl was troubled, .. that is an understatement of the century. Her dx, at that time, Bipolar disorder (as a preteen and teen and beyond). I'm not sure that maybe that dx shouldn't of been Borderline Personality Disorder, rather than Bipolar.
The problems exhibited by her, routinely, daily, hourly .. were enormous. She was not medication compliant, ever. She was hostile, vile, wouldn't comply with therapy sessions, wouldn't go to school, defiant with authority of any sort, and so on and so forth.
By the time she reached the rebellious teen years, the troubles were many, and nearly causing me, the one fielding the varying specialties dealing with her, as well as school administrators and various IEP accommodations that were failing to address her needs and phone calls from school administrators (see defiance above), was nearing my breaking point with all things this oldest daughter.
MIL decided she would be the 'savior' and salvage the whole situation.
First thing she was going to do, was enroll her in the local junior college where there is a program for those who have dropped out of high school, so they can then complete their GED.
I remember being so very frustrated, and feeling and saying, at least to DH ... "what does she think hauling her every day over to the junior college is going to accomplish .. I went to school .. with her, .. at the local high school .. talking to administrators there, daily . hourly .. did no good, you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make them drink .. what .. ???.....what is it she thinks I did over here, sit on my duff and eat bon bons while the girl just willy nilly defied any need to attend to her studies?
She was going to take in said daughter, .. (who was by now 17 yo, a high school dropout, and no job .. wouldn't get a job .. period, wouldn't attend school anywhere). MIL now going to be the savior and get this girl a job .. and take her daily to said job .. as well as .. get her enrolled in the local junior college GED program.
This is a daughter who, in her heyday, would routinely walk out the door here, to do just as she pleased .. didn't matter what measure were enacted, short of tying her up to the bed (which we all know is illegal). On foot (she didn't have an automobile, hadn't at that point earned the privilege of my or my husband's time, to even teach her to drive .. she wouldn't comply with any other rules, why turn her loose with a vehicle). On foot, off she'd go out the door. You can't deck her. You'll get arrested for child abuse. You can't tie her to the bed, you'll get arrested .. you can't do much, .. really .. in the end .. if you have a child that doesn't respond to "rules", and that was the case through and through with this daughter. Rules, not for her.
Her dad did, one time, . try to restrain her from walking out the door as she flipped me the bird finger telling me to go *eff myself* .. he grabbed her arm, to stop her, .. to which she fought him and took off screaming out the door, running down the street. You'd of thought a mad murderer was after her.
Who happened to be driving down our street at just that very moment? A law enforcement officer. A police officer (woman) who .. all she saw was a *man in pursuit of a young woman*. This woman police officer, obviously not in the know of why there is a man chasing a young girl down the street, pulled her cruiser over, flipped ont he lights, hopped out of her car, and drew her revolver on my husband .. and demanded him to freeze. Which, of course, he promptly complied with.
Of course, at that point, there was a story to be sorted out, as to what was happening here, and of course, I then also enlisted the Behavioral Therapist to come .. as it was well known by all her clinicians just the troubles we were routinely dealing with.
I had tried to find other housing for her, .. she was so disruptive .. but ... mental institutions being what they were decades back, .. had all been closed. Good thing ???., that's up for debate I suppose.
Nowhere for her to be but here.
She had been Baker Acted numerous times, by myself, by the physician, by her school, etc etc.
It did get sorted out, .. that this wasn't some abusive man chasing a young woman down the street, but not before there were 3 police cruisers here, and a Behavioral Therapist called, to validate the story we were telling, of a troubled young woman.
As I said, she'd been Baker Acted numerous times, .. for suicide ideation.
Ultimately by the time she turned 17 or so, she was now also exhibiting homicidal ideation, directed towards her younger sisters, as well as her dad and myself.
At that point, I refused to pick her up from the psych ward, as I'd done the numerous times previous to this one. This then involved DCF .. as it was thought there needs to be further investigation .. if her parents will refuse to pick her up .. then what's to say they won't "abandon" the other two younger siblings. Much investigation ensued, .. talking to school personnel, church personnel, neighbors, etc., to get a fuller picture of the goings on. To ensure that this isn't a one sided story of abusive parents refusing to care for their minor child.
It was at this point, that MIL stepped up to became the savior of the situation.
She would pick her up, and take her into their home .. but she couldn't be alone with the g'father (MIL's husband) as she had previously accused my mother's husband of sexual improprieties .. (unfounded) .. and so the thought was, "we can't run the risk that she's ever alone with her g'father .. and accuse him of same". She would make sure this oldest daughter is enrolled in the special GED program and take her daily, she would make sure tutors were at her disposal (the learning disabilities long ago dx'd), .. she would make sure she has a job .. etc etc.
All of this required my participation as her legal guardian. I was done with this daughter. I had done all I could for her, .. short of loosing my own mind, literally. But I had to step in, to facilitate above requests on behalf of MIL and her savior status.
MIL got her enrolled in the program for the GED .. and they carted her daily .. to where, it was ultimately found out, she was entering the front door of the facility and walking out the back door, as she was dropped off, to go smoke cigarettes until time to make the call for pick up several hours later. Never even attending classes, at all.
MIL helped her to get a job at the corner grocery, in their bakery department, where she promptly snuck home (stolen) butcher knives .. one might presume that earlier mentioned homicidal ideation at work there.
I remember at the time feeling extremely done, but so very frustrated with MIL. My thoughts at the time (because a lot of the above was requiring that I engage again as the legal guardian of this minor) .. my feeling at the time, if MIL wants to take this on and be the savior she thinks she is, then let her do it, .. go legally adopt this almost legal adult .. and do it yourself, .. and quit sending directives in my corner as to what you think the need dujour should be, to address it all. I've run the gamut and nothing has helped.
But .. I always, always .. always .. acted with decorum and didn't lash out, though I wanted to, badly. I did vent .. to my husband .. on the above .. and said a lot of things, and he would ask .. "do you want me to tell her to leave you the hell alone?". I would always respond "No, .. I don't want a damn thing to do with any of this, I am done .. done done done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....but I don't ever want to look back and *regret* that I said or acted in a way I wish I hadn't, so no .. let her do what she thinks she needs to, and I will try to put my best foot forward and not rock the boat .. ".
In the end, .. MIL could no longer feel safe housing her, .. nor could she do anything with her, and there was a place found for this daughter. A local establishment, not in a very good area of town .. but .. it's intent ... that the person buckle under and keep their nose to the grindstone .. and in exchange the person will be awarded .. life skills, a job, .. and a ticket to a halfway house setting .. where they can transition into their own housing ultimately. That too, went by the wayside, as she failed to comply, as I knew she would fail to do. And she became homeless for a while.
In the end, this daughter, .. she is now a responsible adult . with a f/t job .. (never did complete any education), .. she has more (finally) self awareness, and complies with medication and therapy and recognizes in herself, when she is falling off the rails and addresses it, for the most part. She is approaching her mid thirties at this point and it's only been within the last probably 5 years or so that she has come around to the above.
There were a number of years she and I were no longer on speaking terms, that too has changed for the better.
There were times that I wanted to blast MIL with everything I could think of to say to her .. and tell her to stay the hell out of it, there is no saving this gal .. and if you wanna do it, then you do it, leave me the hell out of it, all of it .. and whatever delusion you are under that maybe I didn't try this, or try that .. think again .. I have tried it all, and I am done.
But now .. and even then, I acted with dignity and in the knowledge I didn't ever want to look back at having said or acted in ways that I now can't take back.
So even to this day .. with the situation that is MIL and all of that mess .. I act, .. with dignity and don't say things that I will have to wish I didn't.
I'm humbled at how virtuous you are when it comes to avoiding sarcasm. Oh no! MIL might have caught 'flu? And that wouldn't be good for her, you mean? Cripes! If only you'd realised. You would have given the entire family strict instructions not to come into contact with any infectious agents, I expect.
I shouldn't laugh... But, what if SIL gets 'flu? I sincerely hope she doesn't, for heaven's sake! But it's not like it's beyond the realms of possibility, in February, with outbreaks left right and centre. If she hasn't thought of a fall-back plan, she'd better.
Maybe because she doesn't want her mom's waning days to be spent unhappy. The prospect of uprooting her mom from what she wants, .. to live alone in her own home, would make her mom's waning days, unhappy ones.
When I look at it via that prism .. I do feel bad for SIL ... but only from the respect that she is all but giving up any hope of having any life at all for herself and her husband in the pursuit of what MIL wants for her life. But also very much a choice she is making, self imposed exile in the care of her mom.
Maybe this path is born out of, the above .. maybe it's more to do with the only other two paths are:
a) a facility
or
b) SIL's home
Choice "a" .. that is going to require a whole lotta discontent .. and not to even mention the whole quagmire of where/how. When you figure in there is a RM in play here, and no funds to pay for that choice.
Choice "b" also comes with a whole lotta discontent on MIL's part. She doesn't want to uproot from her home, period. But .. I'm pretty sure SIL doesn't really pine to have her mom live there with her either.
Thus .. I guess, for SIL .. this works .. for now.
Until she can nurse her mom along to the state of being "she's okay, she's managing" and she will return to IL, to live her life and manage from afar, until the next "boom" of whatever derails it all yet again.
I kind of feel sorry for SIL--a self imposed martyr with no real plans for the future, just living in the now and putting out small fires, instead of looking up and noticing that the whole dang forest is ablaze and she needs to MOVE NOW.
I think we all know she's just going to get MIL back to "stable" and fly away home, to await the next "boom', be it flu, or a fall or issues related to her inability to "manage". No doubt she's done absolutely nothing to find MIL care in IL or in FL, she's just barely keeping her head above water.
Glad you are keeping well out of it, Dorker. You'd be sucked back into one of those rabbit holes pretty quick if you so much as said "what can I do...?" Sounds like DH is pretty off board, as usual. He sounds so much like my hubby, I can just picture him--sitting on the sidelines, agreeing with you but not doing a single thing.
Ah well--you keep strong, It's going to be worse before it's better.
Some who have followed this thread remember the whole thing about the vein ablation in MIL's legs.
I will refresh ... just for those who don't remember.
At some point SIL got it in her mind,... vein ablation ... that would be a great remedy for these lower extremity edema issues. And off they began to a specialty doc for said procedures (numerous trips back and forth).
Even so much as .. when I was exiting this whole scene and SIL having asked if I would facilitate a visit to this vein ablation doc .. after she's left. And my refusing to do so .. and on the grounds that I was going to be busy with my daughter and her end-stages of pregnancy and a 4 yo g'daughter, that no .. I wouldn't be doing that. And urging her to maybe engage some neighbors that have offered to help, and/or the housekeeper. Only to learn in the days after that MIL .. having been made aware that SIL was now going to try to enlist said parties ... was adamant .. threw a fit, .. don't you call any of my neighbors and bother them, absolutely not .. that she'd do it herself. This all happened months back. Not sure how MIL got to that appointment, or if she even did.
But as a side note to the above, .. also of note ... she'd had some other calamity about that time, .. finding her hospitalized .. (forget which one at this point) . This hospitalization .. it then necessitated a visiting nurse assigned for home care.
I recall being at that meeting when visiting nurse came to the scene and the review of medical records ongoing. Note that I had voiced my disdain with the whole vein ablation thing being a remedy for any edema .. that .. the CHF was likely the culprit and so edema is going to be an issue, particularly .. when the patient refuses the regiment of Lasix as MIL does (mobility being her impediment to same). Note that I had put forth, FWIW .. my own opinion of the above as a plan of any sort.
Visiting nurse arrives on the scene .. and medical history being noted, .. and SIL mentions the vein ablation as an ongoing process .. and nurse registers her thoughts on it all, saying it's really just nothing more than cosmetic .. the vein ablation thing .. and that the veins that are causing edema are more deep and that vein ablation is only addressing superficial veins, not going to be proven to be real helpful.
SIL questioning this, "Really? I wonder why the cardio doc thought it might help, we even ran this past the cardio doc before proceeding".
The same answer I'd gotten when I questioned the validity of doing the above. Felt very validating to have heard the nurse say the very things I'd said (and I'm just a layman in all of this, very much a layman).
Well, fast forward to now.
SIL tells me that the cardio doc feels that MIL and the whole vein ablation .. it's proved useless, and the cardio doc feels now .. she probably has Lymphedema .. and that the Lasix .. (the very drug they'd hoped to negate from the scene .. in the vein ablation circus) .. cardio doc says the Lasix is going to have to remain ... a staple of the scene.
Gee, .. rabbit hole ya think?!?!?!?! Of how many hundreds of other rabbit holes. Only this one, I was not a part of, and I'm so so so glad I wasn't. Even having refused to take MIL to this "I won't be here anymore for her next appointment can you take her". Nope.
Just ... how ironic. The very thing I'd said .. this is all snake oil salesman stuff here. Turns out to have been the case. SIL .. always in pursuit of the next procedure/pill, whatever, ... all in an effort to stave off the fact that her mother needs more care. And in the end, this whole vein ablation thing turns out to have been useless, as I said it would be, as the nurse even said it would be.
When SIL related this info to me, that the latest visit to cardio the above was the case .. I said to her (couldn't help myself) "yea I remember distinctly sitting with that visiting nurse assigned to her case after her being hospitalized . and she and I both felt that was a whole bunch of hooey and wouldn't help in the end, .. shame you guys did all that, all for nothing".
SIL's response: "yea .. I guess the cardio doc feels her issue is more Lymphedema .. and so .. that vein ablation thing wouldn't of helped in that case, .. wish she'd of known that before".
I didn't say it, but thought, "yea maybe YOU recognizing that your mom has CHF would've also proved beneficial". I didn't say that, .. I'd said my piece of biting back on all the rabbit holes that SIL can conjure up to deal with.
And on another note, that makes you feel like you're just an insufferable B*&CH.
One of the latest things around here.
With the flu that is on the news every day .. being so bad. YD was dx'd a week or so ago with the flu. Not the bad one that is killing folks, but the flu nonetheless. She was sick sick sick .. and finally did go to the doc, and dx .. the flu. Didn't stop her .. she's only 25 yo .. and she just keeps on keeping on. But that's youth for ya.
This is actually old news, a week or so old.
I happened to be talking to SIL about that time that YD had gotten that dx (but YD had also left town at that time, to go to her boyfriend's for the weekend .. as I said above it didn't stop her .. she kept on going). I happened to be just chit chatting with SIL .. and she asked, .. "so how's everyone on your end, boy this flu thing is bad .. none of you have caught it?".
I responded; "as a a matter of fact, YD has the flu, as of a dx at the doctor yesterday ... but it hasn't stopped her, she's gone .. she's out of town .. left town last night to go to her boyfriend's and is gone for the weekend .. yea she'd been sick as a dog, and finally went to the doctor .. and dx was the flu".
As soon as I said it, I thought, *oh crap, I should've just lied*. I know better.
Here's the response I got:
"Oh no .. you guys were over here a couple of days ago .. I sure hope you don't catch it, and were carrying the germs with you when you were here and didn't know it .. we sure don't need MIL or me, for that matter to catch it".
Of course, DH nor myself were experiencing any symptoms .. nor have we, at all.
But that's par for the course. You want to say .. "why don't you just go climb back into that self imposed bubble you've erected over there .. to make sure that MIL is insulated from *life* ... for God's sake, the rest of us are living our lives, as we must ... YD is working for a living, .. in a hospital .. probably at greater risk .. in that setting, .. we'll be sure to keep her away from you for God's sake .. and us too, for that matter .. in case we should be exposed just by being in her proximity .. and/or .. just living our lives working for a living and/or just simply functioning .. oh and the babies .. yea we'll be sure and keep them away from that bubble too, they have an older sister that .. oh heaven forbid ... goes to school with other kids, .. surely they must be a risk also to that self imposed erected bubble you have encased MIL in ... ".
What the hell?!?!??!?
You feel like such an azz for having that kinda sentiment about it all, but that is the sentiment that hits me.
If you happen to so much as mention, "oh my gosh .. I don't know why but I've got this horrible sore throat .. I guess I need to get to the doc maybe".
Well heaven forbid if you have happened to have been in their presence in the last few days .. she's sure now that MIL has been exposed .. and will now also befall the same .. and it will be so absolutely detrimental to her.
She's right. MIL doesn't need to catch any damn thing. EVERYTHING .. in her compromised state, EVERYTHING .. even a case of the sniffles .. is a set back. She's right. But life .. life happens for the rest of us. We are in and out of stores, .. going to movies, .. restaurants .. working, out and among the public .. at all times, the rest of us.
((((Case in point of someone that doesn't *manage*??????...... ya think? We all .. have the possibility of *catching something* ......... just living life, functioning ... but we all *manage* .. those of us able to do so ... we aren't 88 years old and unable to *manage* should we find ourselves ill with whatever is going around. But no .. no .. not at all, that isn't anything that should be looked at as MIL unable to manage. No, of course not .. just go climb back into your bubble, we'll stay clear of it, lest we infect you or your mom with our contamination from having just lived *life*)))).
So what ...????.....should we just stay away entirely .. ???
Might go over there today feeling fine and dandy .. not a sniffle, not a scratchy throat, or any other ailment. Only to later today come down with some horrible stomach virus .. and then .. heaven forbid, we were in their presence, and now they may catch it.
You want to say to them, ... "ok, well I can see that I guess it's not a good idea for us to come around at all, those of us who are possibly contaminated .. just by living our lives .. have a nice life over there .. enjoy the scenery from inside that bubble".
Sheesh!
Susan
These people who can move mountains when it comes to other minutia .. cleaning gutters, fixing fallen fencing, dog ailments of any sort, weeding and cleaning out flower beds, you name it ... can't seem to sit down and do the simplest of things. Talk, about the serious topic, the big huge pink elephant right there staring them all down.
Nope. No one has sat down to talk, make any plan .. of any sort.
Does this surprise anyone? It sure doesn't surprise me.
If there is any plan at all, MIL & SIL might be on the page .. but DH is out of the loop. I doubt seriously there is any plan whatsoever.
And like Shane1124 indicated .. I'd bet at this point, SIL is nursing MIL along to leave her yet again to "she's okay, she's managing alright". So be it.
As I've said before, I removed myself from the equation and am no longer the step n fetch in it all, thus the decision is theirs. And .. likewise .. the indecision .. is theirs.
I don't push DH for any answers any longer, in fact, I rarely even ask about the whole situation. Why bother? The answer would be the same as it's always been. No answer(s).
SIL can surely see, at this point, just how removed I am in it all. If she deems it appropriate to leave her mom to manage, so be it. She can see that I am so removed from it all, that I don't even really ask any questions any longer, .. and rarely even call to check on things. So, she has to know, in that, leaving her mom wouldn't suddenly enlist my participation into it all again. It wouldn't.
Just as I wouldn't appreciate it, if I were the one in the throes of some situation, living/breathing/eating it (as SIL is) .. and some *ne'r do well* trounces along to tell me what to do, and how to do it. I am allowing that same latitude, as to SIL and all she is doing. I don't voice an opinion (though I surely have one). I don't add any input .. it's all up to her, .. and her mom .. and let the pieces fall where they may.
I used to, when I was in the throes of it all, I did interject my thoughts/opinions. Fell on deaf ears ..
I did the only thing I could do, .. I can't control how they handle things, but I CAN control myself and how I do things as to my participation in it all. That much I did learn to control, and so I am out of it.
The choice(s) are theirs.
I admit to sometimes pondering Dorker's situation while I am not able to sleep at night...and I bet we are not the only two, Rainmom!
However-
I was thinking about SIL. About how long she’s been there when initially this was suppose to be a short Christmas visit.
It’s a bit like Gillian’s Island, isn’t it. They all packed “for a three hour tour - a three hour tour. The weather started getting rough - the tiny ship was tossed...”.
I mean, seriously? Realistically, I’m sure Sil didn’t do the over packing Mrs. Howell clearly did - having all those changes of cloths for a three hour spin around the harbor. Sil has to be sick to death of wearing the same few outfits she packed for the visit.
I’m picturing her in her Christmas sweater...
I wonder if either sib understands anything about MIL's finances? Neither has POA, but are they knowledgeable in the least about MIL's finances?
I know none of this is going to fall to you, Dorker, and that is how it should be. You have done a marvelous job of stepping out of the fray.
Looking at facilities, figuring out MIL's finances and how to get her Medicaid-qualified for a facility, cleaning out her house, selling it...it all sounds rather daunting. SIL most certainly has done nothing about any of it.
And it's much easier for H to do his usual working/churching/hunting than to force his mother and sister to work with him on a plan. Inertia reigns supreme!
IMO SIL & MIL are on the same page but now “frozen” as reality hits them. Someone will actually have to visit the AL facilities in IL & fill out all those applications.
Still - none of MIL’s kids have POA. No one knows how to proceed with finances due to no POA & the RM issue. Unless SIL & MIL have been working a plan and not including DH.
I think she (MIL) will move to SIL’s first and determine if she likes it there. But for some reason, I don’t think this will happen in March.
SIL is depending on her mother to improve so MIL can stay put in her home a while longer. That’s my 2 pennies.
SIL wants her mother to stabilize for awhile to give SIL time to divise a plan in IL. Of course this could have been completed in the last 6 months or so if SIL has devoted time to visit the facilities but she chose not to make that a priority.
Wondering if DH & SIL have used any of this time to devise a plan for their mother’s future care. I almost think they would keep any plan away from Dorker to punish her for backing out and also, their pride is hurt (SIL & DH’s).
Hang in there Dorker. You are in it for the long haul and in the final stretch.