I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
At first, I was totally onboard with the abusive husband & the SAHM mom who feels trapped & is dealing with her own demons. But as more has come out.....I’m wondering what exactly you are on alert for and whether or not you & your DH suspect they could both have a drug problem? Something is going on here.
I’ve hijacked your post before to share my own experiences with a MIL who favored one grandchild and I can’t tell you enough how wonderful I think it is that you recognize what your DDs in-laws are doing & it’s future impact on the twins. It’s clearly favoritism and as those twins get older & are continually left they behind, they aren’t going to be happy about it all. As a mother I can’t understand why your DD hasn’t nipped this in the bud yet. Because.....she has to know that one day when the twins are a little older, she’s gonna be the one dealing with 2 angry upset twins who just watched their sister leave for a fun weeks at their grandparents house! It’s just hard to understand why she allows something that is going to hurt her other 2 kids in the end you know? But in some ways she reminds me of my BIL and exSIL, and it’s entirely possible she’s happy to get rid of just one of her kids. My BIL only had one but he & ex SIL pawned him off every chance they got! And your DD calling you and asking you if you want to take the kids for the afternoon....I guess it’s the way she says it. Reminds me of my in-laws and really not something I would ever say. If I needed my MIL or mother to watch the kids, I would ask them if they could watch the kids. I wouldn’t ask them if they want the kids for the weekend! Seems manipulative to me. But I’m willing to admit I may be the oddball there!
I did think as I saw that, just at a glance, .. "well dam . she told me she was out of everything, dish liquid and laundry detergent . that looks like a full bottle there of dish liquid .. what the h377 did she have to leave for .. "
((Remember I'm looking for any sign at this point that I'm being played .. and so . that ... what looked to me to be a full bottle, but I only glanced as I passed by it .. and was on to follow the twins and get them to the bathroom to wash their hands from playing outside))
I did note that . and did think to myself, "Dam .. what the h377 did she go to do .. she dam sure doesn't need dish liquid .. I'll have to look when she comes back in . if she buys dish liquid . if not . then what did she go to do .. where did she REALLY go".
She got back in a bit . and coming in the door lugging like 6 bags of groceries and on the outside of one of them I could see, .. dish liquid . as one of the numerous items she bought.
I said to her: "Why did you buy dish liquid you have a full one in there already".
DD: No I don't, it's empty ..
Me; "no . I saw it when I came in with the kids, . it's full ...
DD: "No it isn't . it's bone dry .. "
She summons me to the kitchen . "go pick it up" .. I did so . bone dry . not a drop of anything in it ..
It turned out the coloring on the dish liquid bottle was that which would be the color of dish liquid . and up to a level that would normally be a full bottle ... it was just that it was the way the bottle was colored . one couldn't tell that it was bone dry . til they pick it up ..
At that one I had to chuckle at myself at looking at every nook and cranny for what might be sinister motives ongoing .. I had to laugh ..
And yes I get angry that the other local g'parents spend 0 time with the twins ..
1. It's not fair to them . that they watch their older sister waltz off with grampies .. and they don't ever get to go . not ever . not even one at the time. And I find it despicable that DD and her husband allow that to go on.
2. It gives her no other venue as to relief valve for twins . other than me. She has 0 other options .. in that other set of g'parents that yes . do take the 6 yo (and did so when she was little like the twins are now) .. they take the 6 yo . all the time .. and .. n.e.v.e.r. the twins .. not even once, not even one at the time.
Yes, it angers me.
Yes, DD says she has talked to her mother in law . that she is displeased and her mother in law indicates she'll do better .. and then when given the opportunity . if DD asks her .. "hey can you watch the kids Saturday night" . as was just the case this past weekend . she has a million reasons/excuses why it's not a good time, all while having the 6 yo in her care .. but can't take the twins or even one of them .. as DD puts it (unless they're both too cowardly to really approach all this and lie to me about it . I dunno) .. as she puts it .. this is a topic that she knows irritates me . yet she refuses to change it, oh promises to do so . but then repeatedly when given the chance, . bails out and won't watch the twins, ever.
It's wrong .. you don't play favorites and it's wrong of DD and her husband to allow it to continue . at least IMO .. I truly don't say a lot unless it gets brought up by her . in talking to me, as was the case this past wknd when she asked yet again for her MIL to watch the twins Saturday night (she didn't ask me . likely because she depends on me, during the week days . off and on) .. and her MIL "no . we have far too much going on" and so DD beefing to me, that she's at her witts end with her MIL on this topic ..
Yes it incenses me .. it's wrong.
In fact, one of the times she asked of me to watch the kids, I purposely pulled on her, "oh wait, let me just come there, I'm running late to be available, I'm coming there to watch the kids"
I did that on purpose. Generally . watching the kids would be here at my house.
I did that quite on purpose and she had about 5 mins notice that I was to be in her d/w . if that. I did that . because I knew she'd be leaving and I could at least be a bit more observant than I might otherwise be in the proximity of her home .. gee . any signs here of a crack pipe anywhere .. let me take a look ... or .. let's see .. any indication of elicit drug use .. I'll just kinda glance around some.
I didn't snoop to a huge measure ... maybe I should've ..
But I did . make it a point to .. let's say . we wanted to go outside, to play me and the kids ... and instead of exiting thru her kitchen as one would normally do to get to her b'yard with the kids, .. I exited with the kids in tow, through what is known as the man cave there . a little cordoned off area of the garage . that is .. at least to my knowledge rarely used other than for storage .. or is it ... ??....maybe it makes a nice crack den where the kids leave you alone to hit the crack pipe or whatever.
I'm gonna just glance around here . as I exit through the man cave ... and I did .. yes, snooping a bit along the way .. looking .. under and behind and so forth.
Didn't find anything at all. But it's precisely because my eyes are wide open that would even occur to me to be on the lookout.
A little bit of a funny from that specific incident.
The whole reason I'd gone there, was to watch the kids for her to go to the grocery store. Problematic taking them these days . .and I've experienced this myself .. they take out . and throw . that which you have just put in the cart .. if you aren't looking . not so bad when it's a loaf of bread, but a jar of pickles . not so good .. so you have to watch them . and there are two of them . and you no sooner stop one from heaving something out of the cart and onto the floor that the other one is doing it .. and so .. it's a task ..
One can go to the grocery store to get the things they need and get done a lot quicker without 2 yo's in tow.
She said when I called her last minute . and sprung on her that I was coming to her instead .. "Oh GOD . well ignore my house, . I'm out of dish liquid so the sink is full of dirty dishes . and I have laundry piled up everywhere, I'm out of laundry detergent . so ignore my house, it's a mess".
So I get there ... and she also knows . I've expressed some concern about her being in stores now that I know this . is she gonna go steal stuff .. who knows.
She knows that's a concern of mine.
On this particular day . her husband was still there . they hadn't started work for the day and she had already expressed to me earlier on the phone that she hoped to not have to fight with him to get some $ .. cuz she needs some things a the store ..
So I get there, . her husband is still there, . to be leaving imminently .. and .. she walks past me, flipping open her hand, to reveal the $50 bill he'd just given her ... I guess . in a means of assurance to me, "I have $ .. I'm not going to go steal".
Out the door she goes. Pretty soon after that, her husband also left, so only me there now, with the kids (6 yo not there).
At one point as we came back inside from the b'yard (entering via the kitchen this time) .. I noted that I need to wash the kids hands . as we pass by the kitchen sink .. and then remembered .. Oh she's out of dish liquid . prolly doesn't have any hand soap either .. so I glanced at the kitchen sink . yes full of dirty dishes .. as I passed by . but much to my surprise .. there on the kitchen sink was what looked to me to be a full bottle of dish liquid ..
I didn't pick it up . but it looked to be a full bottle .. and I did think ..
found in her husband that he wasn't gonna part with the dollars .. to go get TP and diaper wipes . she said to him . (this is per YD's version of on site having seen it) ..
DD to her husband: "Ok, well I'll go get some from my mom's".
At that, her DH: "Wait hold on .. I'll go get it . just hang on .. I'll go get it"
DD: I thought you didn't have the $
Her DH: "I just have to go to the bank I don't have any cash on me
Her to her DH: "Uh huh and that debit card you carry .. whatever .. I'll go get it from my mom"
When the azzhat thought she'd go spend 30 seconds at her mom's oh then . then of course, . hes' at the ready to make it happen . not that she leave mind you . and leave him with the kids . he'd go . then . oh then . yea .. he was ready to make it happen. But whatever, she came here and got it. Yes, given the opportunity again, the paltry little bit it costs to replace it will be seen as an attachment to his paycheck next time .. deducted.
So petty .. but yes ..
DD: I'm literally like 3 mins from your d/w .. me and S (her husband) . we also stopped at the store to get a few things that's why I'm running late, we're literally like 3 mins from your d/w . if you'll bring the kids out to the front porch I'll probably be pulling into your d/w by the time you get out front
And indeed that's what happened.
But yes, it did .. frost my cheerios .. I mean you asked for "you all" to come swimming . then switched it to 'will you watch them and let me go" and then "I'll be back to get them at 6" . here it is now after 7 and you aren't back . not working for me.
Another occurrence that happened just the other day that I thought I smelled a rat, turned out there wasn't one.
YD had been at DD's house, just hanging out . and YD arrived back home to .. ??... what ..???.. DD is here . and so is her 6 yo . ..
In comes YD .. and right behind her, DD and the 6 yo.
DD: Hey ... I need to grab some toilet paper and some diaper wipes do you have some I can take?".
(( this .. has been a problem in the past .. I'm not a grocery store .. I don't mind if in a pinch . but ya know that's what grocery stores are for)))
Me: Grocery stores closed?
DD: No, S wouldn't give me any $, I told him I was leaving when YD leaves, .. we're out of toilet paper and diaper wipes .. told him I needed some $ to go get some and he wouldn't give me any $.
Her 6 yo was with her, and I didn't want to be seen as a stingy old ogre . . "yea go get em, you know where I keep TP and diaper wipes".
DH and I both looking at one another side eyes (he knows I'm on the lookout .. and he also knows this is a pet peeve of mine, one born of past abuses in that realm . I'm not a grocery store).
She left, .. only here long enough to fish up some diaper wipes and TP and was gone.
After she left, ..
DH to me: "What was that about? That he won't give her $ for TP and diaper wipes .. ??... WTH?"
Me with a glance of the eye: Or did he? Maybe she pocketed the $20 . and came here, . that way she gets to keep the $20 . and he's none the wiser, you know how he is . fights with her over every dime ... who knows . maybe he did give her the $
At that YD walked in and heard the last of what I said to DH ..
She now engaging in the convo: "No . I was there, let me tell ya . she asked him . that she was gonna follow me out of the d/w . needs to go get some TP and diaper wipes . and he said "can't help ya" .. she said, "you don't have any $" .. and his answer was "can't help ya, don't have it". So she did ask him and he wouldn't give it to her ..
DH then entering the conversation: "I just bumped him $200 cash the other day from a job we did . he worked hard and so I bumped him $200 on the side, in cash .. and he tells her doesn't have any $ for TP and diaper wipes .. WTH?
So, all that to say . that scenario . I thought I smelled a rat .. this person who seemingly is dragging her feet on getting some OBVIOUSLY badly needed help . in the form of therapy . what's REALLY going on here .. I thought . maybe he'd indeed given her the $ and she just pocketed it . all while selling me a song and dance that he won't give her a dime . but YD . saw it . and verified all was as DD said it was . he wouldn't give her the $.
I didn't think of it til later, . too late, but given the opportunity again . that same scenario .. I will go to the store the next day whether I have time or not . and buy more TP and diaper wipes . to replace what was taken . and staple that receipt to his paycheck .. less the deduction for same. Wanna play me azzhat .. watch this.
The truth of the matter is that I keep plenty of the above on hand ... plenty .. and am not some mean stingy ogre that would deny someone in need. I'm not that. I'm more than happy to share .. but .. it has a tendency to be depended on . too much . and that I do have a problem with.
Oh and if it bears mentioning . per YD .. when DD found in her husband that he
she hasn't asked for my wallet? She does .. (far too often) ask for kid cov'g . that much is true .. but she hasn't worked me to get into my wallet, so what would be any motive? I don't know, other than free-wheeling built in granny/nanny for her kids .. a mom who feels so so sorry for her poor plight . that I'd hop to anytime called upon . and she'd have basically a built in nanny.
That's the only angle I can really see if there is anything sinister from her angle . and so I'm aware of that, and have begun to pull back some as to availability .. she hears the word "no" more now days than was the case previously, DD does.
W/that as sort of something I'm on the lookout for . this past week . really kinda frosted my cheerios with something she did. She called here, it was mid to late afternoon, "hey . the kids are up from their nap and they wanna come to nanna's to swim".
I thought that meant mommy and kids . come swimming here. It was about 3 PM .. I didn't have much else going on . sure . ya'll come on.
That's when this was said: "Ok, well what I'm gonna do is come there, .. drop them off .. I need to go to the grocery store and get something to fix for dinner, I'll probably be there about 4 . and I'll come back and get them at 6"
At first it took me back .. (especially since I'm kind of on guard now .. on the lookout) ... and more to the point, not to be used/abused as to kid cov'g . particularly if you aren't going to help yourself, then why do you expect me to be at the ready to help you. Is kinda my mentality. So at first . hearing there was no intent on mommy's part to stay here to accompany her kids and their wish to swim .. it kinda took me back, but I thought . oh well, 2 hours .. I can stand on my head for two hours if I have to . don't fall on your sword on that one, just do it. So I did.
She dropped them off about 4 .. and I got them in their swimsuits and arm bubble floaties and took them out to swim in the pool. They swam all of about 10 mins . the water is too cold still (I wont' get in . too cold for me) . .I sat poolside, as a life guard (6 yo was with the other g'parents where she always is) .. so just the twins.
Since I hadn't planned on them for dinner .. I wasn't fixing dinner, figured I'd run get a take out .. afterall she'll be here at 6 . I'll just hop out at that point when she picks them up . and grab a takeout for me and DH ..
Approaching 6, I get a call from her: "Hey.. the grocery store didn't have the kind of chicken that I needed so I'm gonna run just get us a takeout . and can I do that .. before I come get the kiddos .. and then I'll have our dinners, and scoot by and grab them . and we can head home and eat, would that be ok".
Me; "Yea . ok"
Figuring on what .. ??? .. 30 mins at the most for her to now re-route .. and go grab a takeout then scoot by here, to grab up the kids . .. ok .. well I can't leave here til she gets here, so our dinner gets put on hold. Yea I could've asked her to grab a take out for me and DH too . but she never has any cash on her, . and so it would've likely presented as a problem . for her to come up with the $ to pay for it . and so I didn't ask . .just figured . ok . well 30 more mins .. I'll deal w/it.
6:30 came and went, no DD ...
7:00 came and went . no DD ...
Remember, I hadn't planned anything of a dinner for me and DH . thinking they'd be gone at 6 . and I'd scoot out for a takeout but here I was . .stuck at home with 2 two yo's . no car seats to throw them in the car and go get a take out . gotta wait for her to get her.
7:00 came and went . and at 7:15 I called her.
She answered her phone from her car and this is what she said, not hello . this is what she said: "I'm not coming for them .. you can keep them".
She was actually being funny . her attempt at humor ..
I responded: "I know where you live, believe me, I'm not interested in raising kids again, I will find you".
I'm not typically much of a cynic .. but I'm also .. I've been around the block a few times and fully aware that things aren't always as they seem. Almost any of us, if we've lived long enough, we've seen it maybe in someone close to us, or maybe even ourselves. You go all in, buy in to some sad saga that's ongoing, complete with the dastardly villain, only to, in the end, find out you were duped .. that the villain indeed isn't as bad as was thought .. or maybe there were some under pinings to the whole story that made it all add up better.
All that to say .. that I'm "on the lookout" shall we say .. that maybe DD is playing me .... for reasons/motive I don't have a clue . and thus far, none of that has evidenced. But I am on the lookout. I am.
The bottom line is that I don't need to be involved in all this ... I am far too close to have any ability to be objective. And I realize that, wholly.
What are some of the things I've found peculiar, as to DD?
1. The fact she would *ok* it with her dad, that he make our pastor aware of the issues .. and even *ok* it .. that the pastor may wish to reach out to her, which he did do . and she has yet to return his phone call. That has been more than a week ago. Why?
She knows our pastor, . they attend our church (sporadically) and they do like our pastor . he's a likable fellow. Was certainly (and DD knows this) instrumental in helping me at one point with a DH that would've bullied me, if he could've . into being c'giver to his mom here in our home. I sought that same pastor's counsel and he was enormously helpful . in talking to me . and comfort thereof, but also in engaging DH .. in the whole topic. DD is aware of this .. she knows it .. and so .. hesitancy to return the pastor's phone call? Hmm .. puzzles me. Just something to kinda . stand back and watch if nothing else.
2. I was to watch her kids for her, this past Friday . as was described earlier. I took the kids off her hands w/way ample time . like 4 hours or more in advance, to allow that she have the time and not be pressured . and be able to do any errands or whatnot . and then shower, dress for the psych appt. Only to .. in th end, .. get a call from her, as she sat waiting to be seen there .. and was 10 mins late (even though she "says" she called and told them she was running late) . when she got there, they'd taken someone in front of her, . .as well as another patient with an appt now in front of her also . she'd of had quite a wait. This same appt that she was to have been .. at my pushing her, .. "DD you will be there, on Friday . if you can't get them to be responsive to get this counseling fired up . you'll be there on site, on Friday . I'm already watching your kids for you to go to that psych appt . if nothing else get their ear and get it addressed while you're there.
To her promises that yes she'd do that .. (all the while pushing me back with a notion of *let me handle this my own way . in my own time) .. and so . she gets there and doesn't get seen.
Hmm ... I'm watching . yes.
I'm watching ..
I really have nothing more than that, to have any suspicions about that perhaps things aren't what they seem. But I've been around a while and am aware . people can dupe you . it happens.
I will say this much . her husband .. of the two of them . is the one that I've known to be more trouble . .as in . sneaky and underhanded. That much is true, very true.
I could name some scenarios here . things that have occurred over the years . and his part in it, . and likely put everyone to sleep. But suffice it to say . he has been less than forthright in the past.
So is someone lying here? Yep .. is it him? Probably .. but is there room that she has learned his craft ways and is somehow sucking me in with .. ??.. what motive .. ?? ... I don't know, .. she hasn't asked for my
I have to say.....I think the marriage needs to end. I’m not one to say that either. Therapy and getting help with the mental health issues is a start but as far as SIL goes, he isn’t going to change. The man is lying, abusive, having his wife to steal and then has the audacity to get mad when she gets caught & fined. This is in no way a health marriage and it’s time to start thinking about those poor kids! Clearly this is starting to affect them. What scares me is that the SIL has plenty of ammo to use against DD in a custody battle! This is truly a nightmare situation. My heart goes out to her & those kids, and to Dorker because this is a situation that isn’t easily fixed!
It finally occurred to me that the abuse that he was perpetrating upon me was the crime and I called the cops.
They escorted him off the property.
He got to pay the mortgage while we sorted out the terms of the divorce.
There is, of course, much more to this story, but he is making her feel dis-empowered. She is not. THAT is why she needs therapy. To get her to understand that SHE has the ability to say "basta" (Italian for "enough")
If you are satisfied that what she is telling you is what is happening, please try to empower her to take action.
Please tell your daughter to get to therapy and to get a good lawyer.
Someone mentioned your therapist -- do you still see that person? And, if so, what do they say about the situation?
Lots of cyberhugs!!
Later when DH came in I told him of that strange/odd encounter and he put in a call to DD .. "is everything okay . DD let me tell you . your mom has shared everything with me, I know it all, and I'm ready to drop a nuclear bomb into his world and wreck his world .. do you want me to"
DD: "yea we were fighting .. I just wanted to take the kids and the dog and get away from him ... the dog ran thru the veggie garden this morning and he went postal about it . and was going off on the dog and when I had a problem with that .. he went off on me, I just tried to take the kids and get outta there .. but he wouldn't let me leave .. said I was "taking his family away from him" . and so I could only leave if he was with me .. and we got there and mom was on an important phone call so we didn't stay .. .we just left"
DH talking to DD: "Do you want me to wreck his world .. I know it all .. I can .. and it's awfully hard for me to know all this and yet have my hands tied behind my back here . terribly hard .. I'm ready to wreck his life ... do you want me to".
DD: No .. just .. let me deal with it, .. I'm sorry I have you and mom so worried, .. just trust me that I have to handle this in my own way . in my own time .. I can't ... I can't blow up our worlds . I have kids to think about here . and so .. let me deal with it".
And with that, one of the kids was crying or whatever and needed something and DH asked of her, "where is your husband that I can't talk to you for a few mins . without interruption .. where is he, go give the kids to him".
DD: He left, . when we got home from ya'lls house .. I accidentally . . because I was so mad . drove the van down the side of the telephone pole that sits by our d/w and scratched the side of the van and he's mad . he left .. S was hysterical (the 2 yo twin girl) . she has been in all sorts of hysterical since she woke up this morning . I just brought the kids in and laid down with them .. and S finally fell asleep but now they're up . he's not here .. let me go so I can deal with them"
And that was that.
So that's the long saga of what's been going on, on that front.
I know that we aren't to hate anyone . but I do "H.A.T.E. him .. " I do.
In fact, .. anytime he's around it's all I can do to be in his presence . and he works for DH . so hes' around some . .. and/or "they" come this way cuz God knows she can't get out of his earshot . she might tell us something he doesn't want known . and so .. anytime I see her, . it's usually kids under foot and holding any kinda conversation is impossible . and/or he's with her also . and we aren't to know the things we know . and so .. but I hate/despise him .. and it's all I can do to be in his proximity ... in fact, I usually leave the room he's in . if he's part of the contingent.
So yes, .. I do encourage her to fire up some counseling . you see the result of that, but all the while, try to hang back and not be "as readily" available as to her relief valve for kids.
In fact, this past Saturday when they sailed thru here, in obvious distress . I pondered why are they here .. I didn't know they were coming . what did they want . were they here for me to arbitrate their argument . surely not . he doesn't ever want us privy to their biz ..
Later it dawned on me, had I not been preoccupied in an important phone call I'd of likely been tipped off they have some issues they need to work thru and can I watch the kids .. it was later that occurred to me. And I would suppose I'm probably right.
So there you have it all million word ongoing saga.
She ended up rescheduling . for this week again, on Friday .. and .. so nothing has been done to address the counseling piece of it all.
Yet she calls upon me to watch the kids ... and .. so .. for instance, ..
Saturday a week ago, .. I'd already had the kids a portion of 3 separate days .. that prior week ..
I get a text from her: "Hey I'm over at L's doing her hair (her mother in law) . and wondered if you'd like the kids for the afternoon ... I wanna go home and do some yard work".
That . flew all over me.
Ok, .. let me get this straight you're at your mother in law's home to do her hair . have the twins with you the same mother in law that takes your 6 yo every weekend of her life . and won't take the twins . not ever .. not even one at a time and spend any time with them .. a situation I consider despicable ... and not acceptable at all . and I already had your kids for you 3 separate times this past week . on 3 separate days for a portion of the day each of those times . and you want me to take them again . what's wrong you don't ask your mother in law ... where's your husband ... he won't give you "some" me time . to do things you enjoy and pick up the slack with what are HIS kids . it's a Saturday . he's home .. no . no . not doing it.
I didn't say any of that to her, .. I just simply responded: Not a good day no . sorry".
Left it at that. And no didn't watch the kids again.
That was Saturday a week ago.
This past Saturday here I was on the phone . negotiating things w/regard to my dad and his hospital stay . I think I was on the phone with the nurse .. DD not even aware that my dad is hospitalized .. I don't talk to her . she's incommunicado mostly .. kids screaming and running amok and GOD forbid I have her ear, for 3 mins . it's pointless ..
I was sitting here on the phone . with the nurse at the hospital when who appears in my line of sight but 2 yo twin g'son . and right behind him 2 yo g'daughter and right behind her . 6 yo g'daughter and behind her .. son in law, and behind him .. DD with puppy on leash . as they file in here and right out past me to the screen room . b'yard . obvious I'm on the phone and important so maybe they wouldn't have filed right outta here, but saw I was on an important call and so filed out as fast as they came in ..
I hadn't known they were coming . and all I knew just from the visual as to their having entered . obvious there is some stress/tension . fighting ongoing . I can tell, nobody is happy . .. obvious there is some tension .. but i was on the phone .. and distracted so Didn't put the phone down to ascertain why are you guys here, what's going on . I finished w/my phone call.
I could hear the 2 yo twin girl having a tantrum in the screen room . just the other side of the wall where I was sitting on the phone with a nurse .. obvious there are problems . nobody is happy among their contingent . what's going on . but I'm on the phone and can't attend to that .. I didn't even know they were coming, they were just suddenly here ..
So I dispensed with my phone call, went out to the screen room just the other side of the wall where I'd been . and they were gone, . checked the d/w . and they were gone . just that quick . they arrived here unannounced .. obvious there was tension for some reason I was unclear on . but they were gone just as fast and hadn't said a word.
I texted her: "Where'd ya'll go .. when I got off the phone I went outside, to see ya'll but you'd left".
DD: "we just left, .. S (2 yo twin) was throwing a tantrum and I could tell you were on an important call and didn't need that . so we just left .... I was trying to get away from the chit azz I'm married to . we were fighting . but he wouldn't let me leave .. I just wanted to take the kids and get away from him but he said .. I'm not taking his "family" away from him .. and wouldn't let me leave unless he went with me, .. I just wanted to get away from him . but I couldn't .. "
shortly after.
After they left, I did . as did YD inform DH what all was said . and he was wanting to go over to their house and fire him right there on the spot .. for the fact he'd act with such sanctimony at her stealing him all the while a part of it . such self righteousness . and (so typical of him . always looking like Mr. SUnshine and rainbows) .. all the while . he's not at all what he would appear .. DH wanting to go fire him ..
I mean on Easter Sunday the day they were to come over to have dinner . for Easter . she asked what could she bring and I told her ... "I have dinner all accounted for . maybe stop at the dollar store and get some cheap plastic eggs for the kids to have an Easter egg hunt".
She texted back in a a bit . not gonna happen . he won't part with the $ for easter eggs . says he's already paying atty fees and court costs . and fines . not gonna do that .. not paying for it .. is it any wonder I resorted to stealing"
((I got the easter eggs, but the SOB was nowhere in sight to enjoy his kids hunting easter eggs .. don't' know . probably over on the other side of the yard smoking cigs . I dunno)))
Since that time . DH asked of DD . "would it be okay with you if I reach out to the pastor .. I won't tell him the nitty gritty of things . you can share that if you'd like, or not . just to ask for prayer that your health and your marriage be strengthened .. and would that be okay with you . I mean he may want to talk to you . if you don't want me to I won't".
DD told her dad that's fine . and yes if he wishes to talk to her, she'll talk to him.
Since that time . .DH was made aware by the pastor that he did call to speak with DD who he found not at a good time, she was apparently bathing the kids . and told him she'd call him back .. she hasn't ..
I have been in her ear, pressing to get the counseling going . yes . you have .. a psych doc and pills thrown at you . but i'm not sure you're bipolar . if they know the control and lies and manipulation you live that may paint a different pic . you need to get that launched DD .. now .. like yesterday.
To the pushback I described earlier ..
And .. she had an appt with the psych doc this past Friday (she knows I will watch the kids for same) . and so appt time was 2:45 . and I told her to bring the kids at 10 . that way she'd have plenty of kid free time . to .. clean her house, run errands, shower/prepare for her appt . and all the while, I'm encouraging that she get the counseling piece of this going . that appt DD is for med management, you're to see the psych doc . you need the counseling going . and her pushing back . with a "let me do this in my own time, I do call them but they don't have any appts .. I do .. let me work this in my own way . in my own time .. I almost wish I hadn't shared with you I feel pushed to do things I'm not ready to do.. I don't fight with him anymore .. it'd come out of left field"
Me: "But you need to begin unpacking some of what you live, not him you .. and yes . ultimately they'll want his involvement but you need to begin to unpack some of that with a professional and sort it thru . when you go to that psych appt on Friday for med management, .. get their ear . let them know . you need to get the counseling piece of all this going . the counseling is right there in the same group .. get that addressed while you're there"
To promises from her she'd do that.
Friday comes I take the kids at 10 AM . . and allowing ample time .. and in the end. . I get a call from her, sitting waiting to be seen at the psych ofc . and she was 10 mins late . said she called and told them she was running late and they said not a problem . she got there, 10 mins late, but they'd taken another patient and so .. then there was another patient to see, and so she'd have to wait.
I had already told her I need her here to get the kids at 4:30 .. and so now she wasn't going to be able to wait it out to see the psych doc .
You said you were sweating that out in conversation with him on the drive home from the restaurant and he knew you were going to have to come beg me for $ . and when you learned that your dad had given him "x and x and x" in the way of dollars . you went and confronted him and found almost $2k in his wallet . and blew up at him . that he'd let you go begging for money from your folks ... him knowing he has a wallet with $2k in it ..
DD: "Yep . and he knew . the second I came to him and demanded his wallet . he knew he was caught .. and I took the $ out and told him don't ever put me in that position again . why would you do that to me, to my parents who are so kind to you . what's wrong with you ... I don't know, he just has this mentality that dad is out to screw him at every turn . and so whatever he can take from ya'll is fine with him . he thinks ya'll are stupid with $ . and if you weren't so stupid with $ . you'd be able to pay him more .. ".
Me now furious: "WHAT THE H377 does the guy think he should be making . he's already compensated better than he would be elsewhere .. h377 he's not some executive at a Fortune 500 company . he's a laborer . blue collar .. what does he think he's supposed to make?!?!?!?"
DD: I dont' know, .. I just know he talks so much chit about dad and it's so hard . and I mean I've been sitting there when dad writes out his paycheck and we're now off . we get in the car to leave and he's sounding off, . did ya see that, did you see . they'd screw me if they can both of em (referring to me and to her dad) . .. if they weren't so stupid with $ .. they'd be able to pay me better .. I've a good mind to .. and so I tell him . GO .. do it . I'll stop the car right now . go tell him . if you have a problem with what you're paid . you don't have to work there .. why do you .. why don't you go work somewhere else ... go tell him ... but of course, he doesn't . he won't go work elsewhere . because he knows .. dad is more generous than what he'd find anywhere .. and he knows that .. and he likes the flexibility that affords him in dad's employ . having to pull off a job somewhere so he can go to the bank . and transfer $ . so I can go get groceries . aint' nobody but my dad gonna put up with that chit ... any other employer would be telling him . put your wife on the bank acct, we've got work to do . I can't be stopping work so you can go transfer funds ... that doesn't work for me . but no . in dad he has the flexibility he wouldn't find anywhere else, so no . he doesn't go to work somewhere else, . he works for dad but then trashes the both of you . you guys have no idea the chit he says about both of you ..
Mom if I so much as buck up against anything he says ... if it happens to have been at time that I've been in your proximity .. it shoots out of his mouth . "you've been with your mom . she needs to mind her own effing biz and stay out of our biz .. you got that from your mom"
((Folks this is all new .. I don't get told what goes on in their world, not til this . for me to have been any input into what she pushes back with in their world)))
Much more dialogue of her pointing out his ways of confusion and lies and manipulation that goes on . and his refusal to watch the kids . ever .. and that I'm all she has as to watching the kids, . his folks . they'll take the 6 yo . used to take her when she was 2 .. like the twins are . but they won't take the twins .. ever . and he certainly will not do so .. and her pointing out some of his lies and manipulation that goes on and gas lighting . and .. all for us to arrive at, we'd been gone now about 45 mins of what was said to be a 20 mins she'd have between errands . and so urging we have to get back and she now has to think up some lie as to what all was talked about . and because he will ask, will pin her, . and of course, tell her that her mother needs to stay out of their biz . and so forth . and so we got back home . and they
I do not honestly know what to say - but she is fortunate that you are there for her. No recommendations on my part - i have nothing - except - if you have a therapist you've seen, can you talk about what is possible for you to do in your role as mom? You must feel so helpless and so hopeless about what can be done for DD.
haven't told you guys what goes on .. I guess ... I mean you told me not to marry him . that he's controlling and lies . and I did it anyway .. I made my bed .. this is the bed I made I gotta live it".
Me sitting silently for a moment, and then asking her, .. "did he share with you a little dust up that occurred between your dad and he a few weeks back .. wherein your dad had picked up a sizeable check for a job they'd done . and he saw that check . he sits right at your dad's elbow . he sees/hears more than he should .. but he saw that check . and he asked your dad to slide him some add'l as a bonus and your dad took exception to that . and put him on his ear, .. telling him that he's fully aware that bonuses can be passed out and will choose to do so of his own free will . where he sees it necessary but that just because he sees a big check as payment for a job done . does NOT mean he is to ask for more $ .. did he share that little dust up with you?
DD: No .. but doesn't surprise me .. you have no idea the chit he talks about dad .. it's hard . it's hard to be his wife but yet dad's daughter . really really hard . .I know that dad is more than generous to him . I know that .. but to hear him talk, dad is the biggest d&ck there is . and out to screw him at every turn . and I've said to him .. oh the fights we've had ... i've said to him so many times . you think my dad is this horrible ogre . why do you work there .. quit . oh that's right . you did for a minute and went to work elsewhere only to come begging my dad for your job . within 2 weeks and he graciously took you back . you coward . if you have a problem with what he does . then why don't you talk to him . why do you wait til you're in the car w/me, your paycheck in your hand . and sound off at me, . you coward .. I'll stop the car right now and you can go back and talk to him about it . but you don't . you sound off to me . that he's the biggest d&ck out there and trying to screw you at every turn ..
Me... another moment of silence and then: "I guess i can't help but reflect back on my bday when we all agreed to go that expensive restauant but your dad mad it clear if ya'll wanna go . . you're on your own . he's not picking up the tab . .and so you guys went . and then in the end .. you're begging me for $ after you paid your dinner bill and now calling me, .. that I need to give you $ .. cuz that expensive dinner out . now has cost your ability to pay your light bill .. . and when I went to your dad to tell him . since he'd made it clear every one is on their own dime . and now that's not gonna be the case, . yea you paid your dinner bill, but now you need money cuz you won't be able to pay your light bill .. I told your dad that and he hit the ceiling and said no . absolutely not .. not gonna happen . that's when I learned that your husband had not only been given his pay check for the week, but an add'l $1800 in cash of OT worked, and had pour mouthed that you guys couldn't afford to join us for dinner, . and so he handed him an add'l over and above the rest .. $150 to cover the dinner out .. and so . no . your dad hit the ceiling and said no . you will not go get them more $ .. he was paid his regular paycheck mere days ago . and an addl $1800 in cash for OT . and I paid for them to be able to join us . they can sit in the effing dark for all I care, no.
It was then that I informed you that no .. I wouldn't be going to the ATM to get you some $ .. and that your dad had already paid him "x and X and X" and he should have the $ .. and that if not too dam bad . and you had no awareness that your husband had that kinda $ on him . and you were furious . . as you told me later after you confronted your husband . that he'd let you guys drive home from that expensive meal out . you sweating it out . that you'd have to go beg mom for $ .. cuz that dinner now cut you short of paying your light bill . you said he let you
She needs to be in individual treatment.
Consider the idea that you may need to shelter the grandkids with you. Just a thought.
DD and SIL in home provided by his family? Is SIL a complete flake working? Is SIL controlling guy due to DD having the manic episodes? The FOWK can also be symptom of do I work all day then come home to this...please be careful that you are not pulled complete into this. Be there for grandkids but remember the behaviors of oldest daughter? The lying? Please watch out for the kids but all things with a grain of salt. You should have heard the terrible things my DH ex-wife told all their circle of friends (oh yes omitting her shoplifting and overspending.)
he was worried I'd get caught . no wasn't with me to steal clothes . no .. but knew it, he'd see what I had .. and question where it came from so he knew . yes .. but no . wasn't with me .. he was with me to steal groceries at times
Me: "Ok, so wait .. now . you guys told your in laws the skinny on all this because they were coming to get L that afternoon the whole Target thing had transpired and her so upset and still at times inconsolable at the fright she'd experienced in it all . and so . you told your in laws the whole skinny . that you'd been caught shoplifting . did he fess up to them that he was part of this and knew it was going on"
DD: No of course not . he always blows sunshine that he's Mr. Squeaky clean .. and it's me .. no they don't know that he was in on it .. .
Me: And you stood for that?"
DD: Mom I don't fight with him anymore, . I just don't .. it's useless . he manipulates and lies .. and gas lights . and makes me think I'm just crazy .. I think that's what he wants . just dope me up on some pills and he can further control me .. Ya'll don't understand what it is I live with . he will never give me a dime . if I need something from the store .. maybe he'll go get it .. certainly not me . noo .. that might mean he'd have to stay behind with the kids and that's not gonna happen . easier for him to go .. and so that's what happens . if I ask for $ for new shoes or shorts or something . I have to argue with him and usually lose . and so I just don't .. I don't argue . and it became easier to take my chances stealing than it did to argue with him ..
Me: DD .. why? I mean I know what the guy makes every week .. we aren't making him a dam pauper ... you guys just got an enormous tax return .. why ..
DD: I know . but to deal w/him you'd think we're down to our last dime . I know dad pays him well .. I know that, .. but I'm not on the account . he won't let me be on the account, I don't have access to the $ at all, I have to ask him . and beg/argue . and usually I lose, I just don't ask .. I don't fight anymore ... our tax return that went into an account at a completely separate bank not in my name . and the checking acct isn't in my name .. I don't have access to any $ .. "
Me: "exactly when and why did you hand over the baton of control to your life . you weren't raised this way"
DD: Mom you have no idea how fortunate you've been . yea you're the one that pays the bills and budgets and stuff . and so have access to the monies .. and I know that's a headache to have to be the one to do that . but you haven't had a husband who controls like that .. he lets you do it . and you have access to $ and don't have to beg and plead ..
Me: "that really really burns me up .. I mean .. I know that your dad is more than generous with him . he makes more working for your dad than he would working somewhere else doing what he does for a living . doesn't he know that .. and to be so stingy and greedy and controlling .. I know what he makes . and I know that your dad even gives him bonuses at times .. depending on the job they've done .. to know that your dad has been so kind and generous to him .. as have both of us .. and to know he's doing you that way burns me up".
DD: You can't tell him I've shared any of this . you can't .. he'll blow sky high and it'll wreck my world ..
Me: Sounds to me like your world is already a wreck
DD: "well I have kids to consider, . they love their dad . and .. if I can I'd like to get us some help . and maybe try to fix things . but if you tell him that I told . it'll blow sky high .. and it won't be good .. I mean .. I guess I'll just bring the 3 kids and the puppy and come live with you because that's what will happen".
He'll point the finger and deny deny deny . and say that I'm crazy .. he won't admit any of it.
Me: "So why are you even telling us any of this".
DD thinking for a minute: "I know . for a long time I haven't told
I know what I'd do in your shoes, but we aren't the same person.
Godspeed in helping to untangle this.
can you come over, . or want me to come get you . I'd like to have a few mins alone with you to talk to you the kids are always undefoot and .. it's hard to talk to you . too many distractions . do you think we could do that
DD: "Let me check with S .. I'll let you know".
She texts me in a few, her answer: "Not gonna happen . as usual he won't watch the kids .. .. how about tomorrow while they're napping if you wanna come over".
Me: So it's not gonna happen then . can't get your ear .. you'll have to lay down with the kids for them to nap . not gonna happen right"
DD in a few mins: "ok, well .. we have a lot of errands to run so S says we can come by there while we're out running errands . .. maybe 20 mins .. will that work?"
Me; "yes I'll take it"
At this point ... (you'd have to know the history of all that I suspect with regard to her husband to understand) .. and so I thought to myself he can go pound sand if he thinks I'm gonna "talk to her" . and have a few mins with her, w/kids under foot and him here too .. not gonna happen. Everything is closed, not like we can go have a nice salad lunch out . but I'll be dammed if I'm gonna sit right here in the midst of the kids under foot (as is usually the case, . one doesn't get he alone . always . always .. always . the kids ... and/or him) .. I'l be dammed .. I want her ear . alone . and so we'll drive and park in a walmart parking lot and talk, but it's gonna be without the kids and him .. just her.
So they arrive here, . 3 kids and husband in tow . and I got my car keys .. c'mon let's go .. and off we went .. and YD wanted to go so she joined.. but not the kids not her husband.
We'd no sooner gotten in the car and out of the d/w before DD says the following: "You guys have no idea the chit I had to hear from him to be able to do this .. I mean . he is all about . what the h377 does your mother want . she wants to hash and rehash this stealing thing . she needs to stay the eff out of our biz . what the h377 . and why .. what biz is it of her's . and why do we have to go by there .. why can't she just talk to you on the phone .. why does she want to be alone with you .. what is it she's got to say that I can't hear .. ya'll have no idea the chit I had to put up with to make this happen"
(((what kinda controlling POS would *divide* someone from their bio family . a bio family that has been so kind and generous through the years .. employing her husband when his propensity prior to that was to not be able to keep a job and the only reason he has a job at all is because DH sees the precious eyes of his g'kids . and wants to make sure a steady paycheck flows through that inept POS . and has wanted several times to fire him for his ineptness but doesn't because of his precious g'kids .. and so what kinda POS that has been the recipient of more generosity than should be allowed by law thru the years . would deny her any time to spend with her bio mom .. and sister .. but that's been the status quo . one doesn't get her alone .. it just does not happen".
So it was then that she began to spill the beans .. of how controlling and manipulative he is . that . yes stealing is wrong . but when you live with him that you have to beg and plead and justify and argue for every dime you can get . and even then it may not happen . stealing became a lot easier ..
So he knew you were stealing .. "yes . he was with me, at least at walmart and groceries . he would encourage me to do so . with me there . hey do ya think you could get away with that . can you take this .. and we'd ring up our grocery order .. paying for some, but sliding some of it into the bag not having paid for it . he knew .. he was right there .. and we'd come home and count out how much we saved .. like you'd do if you used coupons .. and the spoils of our efforts, he knew .. yes ..
Me: Did he know you were stealing clothes too was he there?".
DD: Yes . he knew . he wasn't with me . and he was
the meds they rx'd . she'd had a couple of days to take them . and at bed time as rx'd . and they knock her out cold ..
So this is later at night that I'm texting inquiring if all is okay on her end, no answer.
Texted again . .after a while, . no answer.
I'm trying not to get all overwrought at this point .. and just chalk it up . maybe she went to bed, she did say those meds knock her out . maybe that's all it is.
When her husband called.
S (her husband) .. "hey I see here on her phone you were trying to reach her .. and check on her, she's in bed . those meds they put her on . she takes those and is out like a light ... I had her phone . her phone is all screwed up now . somehow it fell out of her pocket when she was bathing the twins .and I don't guess she knew it . and one of the kids got it and poured water on it, so her phone is all but shot, . it's like half a screen now, . so now we're gonna have to get that replaced .. I mean .. I have insurance on it, so I'll have to pay the deductible . but . we'll have to have them send a new phone . so .. but she's in bed asleep she's fine".
Me; "Ok, .. well what is this with the Kohls thing? I mean I'm trying to understand . when did she get caught at Kohls stealing?
Her husband: "Sometime back in February .. back before she got caught at Target".
Me; So .. what is it you got in the mail . I mean .. if she was caught I assume they take whatever she was taking from there and don't let her leave with it .. what is it you got in the mail that you now have to pay $200 some odd
Her husband: "it's some fee .. for loss prevention services . if we don't pay it they turn it over to collections .. it's a fee ..
Me; Oh okay .. I was trying to wrap my brain around that, it sounded like she was charged or something and I'm trying to figure out how they charge her and let her walk out with whatever she was stealing . and then send a bill .. ok I get it. S, I'm worried sick about her, . these are irrational actions . what in the world ..
Her husband: I know . me too .. well remember . ya know . back several months ago when she was like suicidal and stuff .. I knew then she has some problems . but at that time .. our hands were tied, we really didn't have health insurance and no way to address it . but we did get that in place now . and she's being seen . and so . hopefully some of that .. whatever .. I don't know . they say bipolar .. hopefully with some meds . things will get better .. I hope.
Me to her husband: "I'm really worried about her ... I want her to go and be seen there, . I mean throw pills at it yea . but counseling is gonna have to be part of that too ..
Her husband: "yea I know . . I'm sure she'll see it through ..
Me to her husband: "I wonder . would it be possible tomorrow that I have some time alone with her . everytime I'm around her, the kids are underfoot and you can't even hold any kinda thought to have an intelligent conversation . do you think you could watch the kids for a bit tomorrow and I could have her ear for a little while, would that be possible".
Her husband: "Sure . I'll tell her tomorrow when she wakes up .. I'll let her know . and we'll make that happen no problem".
(((Surprising to me he'd be so amiable to that . never happens any other time .. and I am . read this carefully ... THE ONLY person .. that watches her kids . not his folks . they won't watch the twins . e.v.e.r. and we know he has FOWK . and doesn't do so .. and so . what I say about I never get her ear . that the kids aren't under foot and one can't even talk with any consistency at all the hoopla with kids underfoot . so .. yea .. surprising he was so amiable to that as a set up . until .. wait for it))))
So the next AM .. I get a call from DD .. "Hey S says you wanted to talk to me".
Me talking to DD: "Yea .. I do .. I kinda want a few mins to talk to you . this whole Kohls thing . DD .. what the h377 .. I mean ..