I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
My DIL is a twice weekly business traveler. She and a co-worker were on a flight from LAX to Denver. They fly business class. They had aisle seats across from each other. My DIL was seated next to woman with a beagle. In air, the dog was removed from carrier and placed in lap. The dog was smelly and kept licking my DIL. Attendant asked passenger to put dog back in carrier. Passenger refused. Plane was full and in the air. My DIL planned to go straight from airport to meeting. She felt like she smelled like dirty dog as did other people around her. Gate personnel verified the odor. They were all given vouchers for future flights. My DIL got $500.00. She went to her hotel showered, changed clothes and went to her meeting a little late. After she explained the situation to her regional manager, her company wrote a letter to the airline and requested a refund of the cost of the business class tickets. The airline refunded. I can’t believe that these animals will continue to fly if it costs the airlines money.
I guess the SE light came back on, SIL out and about for dog grooming, grocery run.
Ahh back to the dealership.
There, the diagnostic doesn't show anything wrong. They are booked absolutely solid .. can't even get them an appt til end of next week .. we know that wont' work, they are to fly out before then.
Said the cost for them to ascertain what might be wrong, $109 .. applicable to any repair that they might authorize there.
Said it could be "x, y and z", which would be $________ or it could be (gasp, horrors) "a, b and c", which would be considerably more costly.
SIL telling me this via text, .. followed by: "I guess I just will try to drive it only as little as possible before we leave here and we'll figure it out when we return sometime in December".
Now bear in mind, .. of the many, numerous things that MIL has listed as impediments to any travel and departing here, her auto is one of them. If I'm not here, .. who will drive my car, and make sure it stays in working order, .. I mean with me here, you come over weekly Dorker and drive it for me .. and that way it gets some use .. and we know it's alright .. if I'm not here, there won't be any point in driving it to go get anything for me, .. I can't just leave it sit .. un-driven".
She has been been assured, time and again, that we will, .. when we come routinely to make sure a bomb didn't land in her living room and explode while she's gone .. we'll also crank the car and drive it around the block .. to make sure it's okay.
Funny how the sun, moon and stars all align, it really is.
So here we are with a car problem at the 9th hour.
I said to SIL .. "well that makes it hard for you to deal with it, if they have no openings til the end of the week. If you want to leave a signed check or if they'll take a cc over the phone, I can take the car in while you guys are gone and get it taken care of".
That was answered with: "I think we're just gonna deal with when we get back in December".
I responded: "Okay up to you guys, but I know that MIL had been concerned .. it not being driven it will end up with a dead battery and so she'd wanted to make sure that we routinely crank it and drive it just bit .. while she's gone".
SIL: "I don't think she can even contemplate dealing with it right now .. the expense of it, if it turns out to be the "a, b and c" problem .. it's just more than she can handle right now .. so we'll just .. we'll figure it out .. but probably just deal with it when we come back in December".
Me: "okay well, certainly up to you guys .. hey might wanna consider contacting the ins company .. if it's not gonna be driven .. see what the cost saving will be for dropping collision on the policy for the time being and just keep comp coverage, .. might save some $.
That was that.
SIGH
Here, that one .. of many impediments to her departing here, .. how can she possibly consider leaving her car even .. (among many other things) .. it would sit untouched .. and un-driven .. and have a dead battery.
OY VEY
(Yes, she has a motor club membership and yes, they will come out and jump start a battery that has died, .. if not a neighbor .. it doesn't have to be a big deal, but rather than argue, I'd just assured, .. and meant it .. that we'd crank it for her, in her absence and drive it around the block).
Now, I guess .. we can cross that off of the list of things we need to attend to, no need for one of us to now go drive the car just to make sure it doesn't get a dead battery, and end up stalled out somewhere in MIL's neighborhood.
MIL might answer, . (I've heard it/seen it before), .. "oh well I'm "x" years old, I can say whatever I want.
Met with SIL: "No, no you can't .. I don't care if you're 150 years old, no you can't hurt other people's feelings.
So yes, she sees/hears it and addresses it. It doesn't really stop it though.
However, .. it seems .. since that horrid time that she was so crass to him .. and said what she did .. and yet they have returned here, and been helpful ... so it wasn't, indeed, the "take a look around, you won't see this place again" ... in fact, they've been back here .. and him with her.
She's never apologized, I don't think anyone has asked her to. I don't think she would anyway .. she feels completely justified .. even if you ask her today .. "MIL that was so uncalled for the way you treated him". She would tell ya to this day, You aren't the one that's here living it .. nobody knows .. he's that bad .. he just .. I just can't stand it when he's manic .. it's that bad". She wouldn't apologize, even today.
And nope, there's nothing to prevent him from being manic again and I wouldn't be surprised if it does happen ..
As to the ESA thing .. from what I understand of what they've done to put all this together. It's been pretty much handled, as much as can be til the 9th hour and one boards and then .. I guess one could somehow run afoul of the big behemoth corporation of the corporate airline industry .. and the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Happens all the time with huge corporations .. you follow what you're told to do, only to find out .. you were told wrong. So I guess we'll see, when they get there to board the plane.
I'm in the camp this is all a bunch of (again as country folk would say) a bunch of "Hogwarsh!!!". They need to stick with bonafide, credentialed service animals that are highly trained and skilled, .. and that's it. You have some other pet outside that parameter then follow the rules of how you get em from point A to B, or find other arrangements.
From what I've garnered from the whole thing .. one goes online and fills out that psychobabble questionnaire and gets either "approved" or not. Once that's done, one also has to then get paperwork from the vet that says this pet isn't a known menace .. and not a behavior problem and is fully vaccinated and healthy.
That all has to be submitted to the airline .. and then .... one has to .. once they go to book the specific flight, .. talk to that Accessibility Desk, so they can assure that 40 other pets haven't already been assigned on that flight .. and once that's done .. you're good to go.
All that's been done.
I don't get it with the whole ESA thing, particularly when it's not really .. not REALLY .. a situation where this is someone who absent the presence of their pet .. will come undone. I know there are folks that have .. for instance Epilepsy and their dog can sense an oncoming seizure and alert it's owner or a loved one .. crucial/important, valuable work.
This ESA thing, there is no training or credentialing done. It's just .. this farce of a system .. one says the right things on this psychobabble sheet and wahlaa .. they are now free to board their pet with them (w/some restrictions, one can't bring a snake and call it an ESA) ... and the rules everyone else follows, .. "must be a small pet that fits in a soft carrier under the seat in front of you", out the window .. bring your pet .. no carrier needed. I guess, and some have .. bring your horse size great dane on board ..
There's a story out there of someone using a miniature horse (truthfully) as their ESA. Don't know if that was allowed.
I feel sorriest for BIL, who has a true and painful illness. MIL is lucky that when he's manic he's also not physical.
My own MIL would bang away at me, usually when nobody else was in hearing range, just nasty comment, one after another. She wore me out and down. I no longer even speak to her unless situation requires that I do, and so far, for many years, it really hasn't required more than a polite "hello". My hubby has, in 42 years, stuck up for me a total of one time, and the he kind of backed out of it....if he doesn't personally hear what someone says, it didn't happen.
Sounds like sweet BIL is medicated to an inth of his life. Manic/depression is so rough. Here comes no-filter MIL and her dumb dog and that may very well upset the apple cart. SHE'S coming into HIS HOME and she better behave. I hope and pray SIL Is attuned enough to this dynamic that she will not allow 3+ months of pure-d he77 for her sweet hubby.
All this...well, stuff that has to go on before after and during the great launch---OMGosh--again, I have not one soul who would fuss me like that. If I wanted something from a little dive takeaway, I better figure that out by myself.
Well, it's ramping up, and quickly. Few more days and supposedly they leave, The ESA thing is bugging me....it sounds like that could definitely be the fly in the ointment---nobody has really, truly decided if that thing is legit.
They'll find out soon enough.
She doesn't expect it to be you that stays on top of it, she does it .. and more importantly .. it works for them .. that's their lives .. they live it .. and if it works for them .. who are you to question it ..
We have both gone to the mat on the above and more.
It gets met with, .. a demeanor and response that goes about like this:
"well it figures you guys would say all that, you aren't the ones here living it .. watching it, easy for you to say", ....
accompanied by some lamenting that her poor daughter and her life relegated to the caretaker role of a husband/life partner .. rather than someone of equal ability and so forth ..
You argue .. "but it's her life .. she is happy .. isn't that what matters .. she doesn't hate her life .. she and he do have things in common and yes they have this cross to bear .. but they live it/they work it .. they do the best they can, they travel, they go to shows .. they go to the gym .. they go to movies, out to dinner, .. they have things in common and genuinely care for one another .. and it works for them ...".
To a response of .. again .. .see above, "figures you guys would see it that way .. you don't live it .. you aren't staying here with all this going on .. I am".
See that doormat status so often spoken about with regard to SIL.
DH and I both .. fervently in the corner of .. "were she EVER to have spoken to me in that manner, .. she'd eat those words before she'd ever see me again .. you can bank on it .. and further .. I would hope that DH would back me in that stance ..and SIL should've done just that. Those harsh/unkind/cruel words said to her husband .. should've been made abundantly clear to MIL that's the last time you'll see either of us if that's how you feel about my husband that I love and care about .. I won't put up with it.
She didn't do that.
SIL (and I guess MIL) are very fortunate in that her husband is a very kind .. kinder than he should be, soul. He has a real clear capacity to put this in the file of "she's old and says things that she shouldn't", very very much so. He also has a real clear capacity to understand .. and he hates it . that when he gets manic .. he is annoying as hell ... he knows that about himself. He hates it, wishes he could change it, but of course, he can't.
Will he feel that same way week after week, of having this under foot in his home .. and him become manic .. and her with the hurtful words slinging. I don't know. If there's anyone who has the capacity to approach it all with more kindness than should be extended, it's him.
Should SIL be looking at alternatives for her mom, since it's apparent her husband has a propensity to go manic .. and who knows when that'll happen it just does and couple that with a mom who can't shut her damn mouth .. should she be looking at some other setting that isn't her home, to subject her husband to that?
Probably.
I have no control over that.
The bottom line is that SIL is happy in her marriage ... for whatever the basis of it all, it works for them. And THAT SHOULD BE ALL THAT MATTERS. And even if she isn't happy .. that's not at all on MIL to mouth off about. They didn't get married last week. They have been married for almost 40 years. SIL is not some young teen that married and as my granny would've put it, "Drove her ducks to bad water" .. she's a grown woman ... and can make her own decisions. Not MIL's to question how that marriage works and poor poor pitiful SIL stuck with this shell of a human as as husband/life partner .. poor poor thing.
What will it all look like, there in that household .. time is gonna tell that story. SIL .. though .. a doormat .. through and through and through and through .. allows her mom to say things she should have learned long ago would've been very costly. Puts her husband in this path. We'll see.
She (MIL) so outdone with his presence, .. the very fact that he draws air to breathe .. them slated to be leaving now .. on the day of .. (after she'd mouthed off far too much already) .. and him gazing out into the b'yard thru the french doors .. just standing there, minding his own biz .. and looking upon the b'yard (he who took precious poochy for walks, not once but 2 x's daily, fed poochy .. and any other "thing" that SIL might direct in his presence there) .. and MIL found it suitable to say the words to him:
"Yea that's right buddy .. you take a good look around there, you won't see this place again".
DH and both .. even still, this was a few years back ..even still to this day .. we both find that so absolutely off the charts deplorable on her part.
What were his transgressions that brought her to such harsh treatment?
Was he throwing and breaking things .. and cursing her daughter and slamming her about .. was he cursing MIL and kicking the dog .. was he drunk and stumbling about ..
Not in the least.
He was manic.
What that means .. is this. He talks too much (unlike his normal character, which is very quiet) .. and he eats too much (also unlike his normal self).
That is what he was guilty of. That's it. Yes, that is it! No more, no less.
How in the world does the above in any way impede MIL's life? The fact that he "talks too much" .. that he "eats too much".
Maybe the "talking too much" .. maybe that gets in her way because he has the floor for conversation .. I dunno ... not like him (he's generally really quiet unless you speak to him and he will respond . but that's about it). Not in a snobby way at all, it's just his normal being. Maybe she finds it annoying if he's manic, .. that he takes the floor. I don't really know.
He eats too much? This is bothersome why? Because now MIL must schlep her way back to the store again to restock cabinets that he keeps depleting. Not in the least. SIL does the grocery shopping when here .. and/or .. she will make a list that her husband .. in his difficulties he lives with .. goes by to the "tee" .. and doesn't deviate from.
In other words, if she puts down on that list "Tide clothes detergent, with no scent". He goes to the store, and they are out of that. He doesn't improvise and buy something similar .. he comes home without it. They didn't have it . thus .. I didn't buy anything.
But that's beside the point.
No, it's not that MIL then has to schlep her way back and forth to the grocery because this guy is about to eat the paneling off the walls .. absent anything else to eat. Not in the slightest. No, that's SIL that goes to the store.
So how in the name of all that's holy is it a problem for her?
To hear her tell it .. the problem lies in the fact that this is a grown damn man, .. who is also diabetic .. and knows damn well, or should .. what it is that he should and shouldn't be eating .. and his wife now has to follow him around with a ruler to smack his knuckles, .. "Now B .. you already had thus and so today .. you can't eat that .. " .. she has to police him.
To hear MIL tell it .. all of that .. watching it .. is more than she can tolerate.
DH and myself both have argued the point to her, .. "But it's not like she is expecting YOU TO POLICE IT .. what difference does it make, so he eat the whole bag of oranges that SIL just bought yesterday and now they're all gone and so you have to wait til she can get to the store again .. or send him ... and there are no more oranges, because he ate every last one of them in a matter of two days .. so what ...???....it's not like she is expecting you to stay on top of his diabetes and what he eats and
Whether MIL likes it or not, SIL and hubby have a dynamic that works for them.
Enter MIL, who will invade and (true to form) decide that the sound of her voice and her stinging barbs are the highest priority.
Respect? Graciousness? A spirit of cooperation? Nope, nope and nope.
Dorker, you & BIL have one unfortunate thing in common: Being dismissed as a human being, whenever one of MIL’s offspring jumps on the F.O.G. train (Fear, Obligation and Guilt).
And SIL is losing her sh*t over doorknobs, dog treats and potential noise in the basement.
Deny and deflect. All day, every day.
They are off to a terrible start. And SIL is so tone-deaf and self-centered, she’ll never figure it out.
DH and his whereabouts this day as we prepare for what may be her departure from this life ... and him never to see her again in the flesh.
He is working today .. not on the scene MIL/SIL
But I hear from SIL who obviously has it on good word .. he is slated to go there tomorrow to install the lock on the gate .. or whatever that will entail .. and clear gutters and whatever else "honey-do" they come up with for him.
Mention made briefly by SIL of an outing tomorrow after chores .. to go to that favorite little seafood dive, before they depart here ..
We'll see if that gets on the radar. Doesn't matter to me, whatever works for everyone.
Will I be on the front tomorrow?
I have told SIL .. "whatever we can do to help as you get organized and packing . let us know".
I will go help if it's something practical .. otherwise, I'll likely stay outta the way.
And believe me I have examined whether my approaches as pertains to today and how I do things .. will I live with regret one day.
The only conclusion I have come to (and who knows til I get there) .. I can proudly stake claim in the fact that I stayed engaged .. in a situation that ... were I of shorter temperament .. I'd of thrown in the towel .. and said "you're all fricking nutz and I want no part of any of it ...", and walked away entirely.
I didn't. I engaged with MIL . the one day a week I found suitable to stay engaged, but yet limit my involvement.
In that, I do find solace to the degree that I don't think I will be kicking my own butt down the road with regret one day.
To hear her tell it, "I am not opposed to doing things with seniors my age, hell I do it now, bring it on .. the more the merrier, I ENJOY being around people my own age, I don't know what her deal is ......... "
To hear her tell it, "H377, .. 3 hots and a cot, what's not to love .... somebody to fix my meals and just tell me when to be there .. I'm all about it .. I don't have to go to the grocery store anymore .. what's not to love".
FWIW .. this is her mentality as of today on the whole thing. Will it be a different tune when she is the one that isn't mobile any longer and has a host of issues .. I don't know. How can one know?
She has a husband (husband #4 or #5 .. which is it ...I lost count) .. and she says of him (and I do believe that to be true) .. that were she ill or in need presently he would help her. He himself, also aging.
But I do believe he would help her, as long as he can .. and to the extent that he is able.
My dad . that's a whole other scenario there. The dynamics of that whole thing .. my bio parents divorced when I was maybe 5 or 6 yo. He remarried, .. I guess I was probably 8 or 9. He is still married to her.
My dad at present, .. suffering some issues, but they aren't known to me, the brevity of it all .. they keep me at arm's length even though I pry and offer in earnest to step up and help. That's the way they do. They keep things secret .. always have.
In fact, . my dad at one point hospitalized .. for some issue .. and I didn't know it until it was said and done and over with. I read the riot act to both .. and they have since changed that tune, if it occurs again, I will be on the list of "to call and inform".
They are very secretive. Very private.
I know that my dad has fought .. ongoing .. off and on .. for the last year .. solid year .. MRSA ... in various wounds that have popped up. Seems they fight to cure it .. and it's a long arduous fight .. with IV antibiotics .. and home health nurse .. and bandage changes and so forth .. and it gets cleared, only to reoccur .. keeps happening.
I suggest, in earnest .. routinely in touch with him .. let me go with you to doc and act as a voice in it all, .. and it gets declined ..
He and she do seem on top of things .. in that they know the questions to ask .. and the points to touch on .. so it's not that they are out to lunch and not on it.
He also has a back issue that needs to be addressed, .. something invasive ..and until he is well clear of this MRSA problem, not a doctor within 1k miles that will touch anything "invasive" on his behalf.
So how much will I be a part of the scene should his wife die .. and him now in need ... that's a hard one to call .. w/the both of them being so absolutely private and secretive .. as their existence.
I try .. even at this day and age, .. very much I do, to be a part of it all, and I get pushed to the periphery.
How much will my brother be a part of any scene that looks like our dad's care. See above as to my mom, I'd imagine about the same.
No.
If it meant that's what makes him happy, to see that his mother doesn't have to uproot and he can devote the time and energy it takes to prop up her care that and her dog.
Point being, .. it would be HE .. taking care of his mom. I would help, I'm not heartless ..
But that's not the reality we live. He is not retired, he works damn hard .. and is for the most part, spoken for, as to his time. As we've seen with his church doings (that has alleviated some in more recent months) . he wasn't willing/able to jettison that responsibility in favor of attentive care to his mom's scene .. even when not assigned at work.
My expectation would be that if he were retired, and had the time .. and proclivity .. that he do so .. if that's what he thinks .. and yes, I could do the occasional help mate thing.
But not what we presently live. He doesn't have the time .... nor did he .. even when he did have time on his hands .. "choose" to take on his mother's care, vs take on the care of the "flock" at church.
So be it.
She only has two offspring from which to look to. The above explains one of them. Right/wrong or indifferent.
The only other offspring is the daughter. Were it a son .. that lives in IL . in an entire other state .. would I be looking to that offspring with the same expectation .. or would I be, .. "oh well, dear me, he's a guy .. what can he possibly do?". No .. I'd have that same expectation even if it were a son .. these are her offspring .. and in particular in this case, a daughter .. who has been the captain of this cruise ship .. taking the reigns in how she wants things run on this end. So .. take it then, all of it. .. go with it.
What are my expectations as my parents age?
I know that neither of my brothers will be real forthcoming with any hands on care. Neither live here locally. That limits .. somewhat .. what they can do.
Do they get a "pass" from me, because afterall they're guys .. what can they do in the end?
Not really.
It would be my hope that they would offer to help in whatever measure they can .. when that day comes.
I can only tell you this. When I did house my mom here for a period of about 1 year .. after her husband died suddenly and their only housing, .. at that point in time a yacht that they'd sold the farm to buy .. him now deceased and her unable to captain a yacht .. she had to find suitable roof over her head, til the yacht could be sold and proceeds of same, .. put towards housing for herself. That took about 1 year and so she stayed here.
My brothers, .. were both made aware (different I realize, mom not incapacitated in the slightest staying here with me at that time) .. both were made aware and made provision for ... "I would get to points along the way .. I just need a break here from having a house guest .. can you do what you can to get her to your neck of the woods for just a little while, .. just so I don't have someone at my elbow every time I turn around, right here in my house ... I just need a break".
They both accommodated.
Would they do so in the event my mom is such that she is now incontinent or maybe less mobile?
I don't know.
Maybe not .. but maybe they would offer to come up and spend a weekend, stay here .. and give me a break .. or offer to come and spend some time with her ...
I'm not sure.
Further, and I know that one can say one thing but mean an entirely different "thing" when it comes to what they must now do. My mom .. having witnessed far too much of MIL's what she calls selfish behavior .. insists .. that when her day comes and she can't take care of herself .. find a home, something suitable .. and just be a part of her life .. but she .. tells it
As I read your most recent reply I found myself thinking of a saying I’ve heard. It’s something like:
”Past experience is the best indicator of future behavior.”
Now, as this applies to me here in this moment - now would be when I fetch my big stick and start beating the poor dead horse. Attempting to make you see my point of view.
But this old dog is still able to learn a trick. I’ve come to realize that shoving my opinion down a persons throat doesn’t trigger a revelation - it just makes them gag.
So, I bow to your own experiences and how you predict this will all play out. After all, who am I in all of this but a observing bystander- one who has come to care about you and your family in a cyber kinda way. The internet makes strange bedfellows, doesn’t it?
My last two thoughts on this specific situation (bet you’re waiting for them in eager anticipation, right?)
First - it seems that once an aged person hits their 80’s and are experiencing health decline - mental and/or physical, they begin to age in dog years. Every one year is more like seven when it comes to continued decline. They almost never get better, much less well. If they manage to get better - it’s never to the point they were before and it doesn’t last.
I actually expect mil to show some initial improvement- how could she not with the consistency in care she will receive at the hands of sil and in SILs home. BUT - it won’t last. One fall, one serious cold, one bout of diverticulitis at a particular point in time and game over. I realize you know this. But it brings me to point number two.
Regret. This isn’t really a situation that is going to allow for Do Overs. Regret is a terrible thing to live with. At least - I don’t deal with it well - maybe you’re better with it. But please think over your course of action over the next several days. Keep in mind that this may very well be the last time you see mil in the flesh as well as dh’s last time. I guess that could be said of any of us as it relates to any one person in our lives - but in MILs case, the odds are quite a bit higher.
So that’s it. I’m putting my stick back in the closet.
Dorker, I have to say that I am feeling a bit sorry for SIL. Yes, I know that you have a lot of (justified) anger towards her for her expectations for many years that you would be the step-and- fetchit for Narcissa.
BUT I feel sorry that she will apparently be saddled with Narcissa from now on. She will have to do so much for Narcissa (and the stupid pooch). She will probably never allow her mother to go to a facility. And then there's the whole issue of qualifying for said facility. And where will it be? IL or FL? Whose Medicaid waiting list for AL is shorter? She was able to get MIL qualified to get the home health (which was quickly jettisoned). So I hope she could jump through the hoops of Medicaid qualification for MIL.
I asked you a question some time back, and it is whether you feel that daughters should be the caregivers. I asked whether you would be the one to help your parents as they age, or if you would expect equal help from your brothers.
Do you think that the responsibility for Narcissa should be more on SIL than your H? Because she's the daughter, and that's the way it's supposed to be?
I ponder these things in regards to my own situation. My mother clearly thinks *I* should be doing more for her than my brothers (aside from the fact that I am the only one who is local to her). She thinks my time is worthless (yet one of my brothers -- SonnyNoShow -- can't ever make the time to come down to see her because he's so "busy"). I know my mother comes from the time when women were supposed to be the caregivers (she's 92), but I'm not excusing that.
Gas cap problem. That happened to my daughters car. Check Engine light on. Diagnostics run. Nothing Found. Mechanic suggested buying a new gas cap. Apparently these days they wear our. Told gas caps nowadays have to seal tank completely or a code will be thrown. New gas cap. Solved our CE light on problem. In our case car had to be started and driven 7 times before CE light reset it self. Mechanics instructions.
Keep your eye on the prize!
Phase One Countdown complete. SIL arrived...like a top on steroids.
Phase Two Countdown. Surviving these last few days.
Phase Three Countdown starts when they pass thru airport doors. Ends when plane takes off.
You are almost there.
Avoidance/Denial .. whatever it is, all over this thing.
Forgot to add about the hospitalization that occurred just after the newborns were born. Me having departed the DD and newborn scene to now attend to housing poochy who has to be let out .. and in .. and running the roads back and forth to the hospital setting .. until SIL could get here, which was at discharge ..
In that setting, me the one on the scene .. there the Nuero doc finds some evidence of cognitive impairment in some screening done .. and wants MIL participatory in some further investigation on that front .. as well as .. question as to whether she should be driving any longer, and an assessment done on that front also, along with caution she shouldn't be living alone any longer.
This info imparted to SIL upon her arrival here .. to attend to the hospitalization and aftermath.
SIL .. saw to it the above was disregarded, and not dealt with.
Avoidance/Denial ...???....whatever.
Failure to come to the table of the realization of what "IS" .. vs what we "wish".
So be it, all water under the bridge at this point and we are now at that juncture for MIL to be carted off to IL ..
Where it goes from here, we will see. One can hope that in residence with SIL.. she will actually see and wear it/live it/breathe it .. and be it .. as to how incapacitated her mom is .. and the realization will be upon her that things have to change going forward.
But will that be what actually happens? I guess time will tell.
Here's the thing though.
To me, .. and I guess it's rarely as put together so well, .. but .. go back to when I landed here in complete utter frustration. It was because I'd sounded the alarm that she needs more help .. I can't continue to do it .. I have the daughter pregnant with twins .. needs me, a g'daughter, that needs me, and newborns on the way ...
To me, that would've looked a lot different than what transpired. There would've been a sit down, come to the table, strategy .. of all that are a part of all this .. as I asked for, and didn't get.
I talked to MIL myself one on one, and plead my case. To her assurances, she can manage .. she'll be alright, not "owning/listening" to what I was trying to impart. So I then go to SIL, the director of this cruise ship .. and plead my case, hoping she will implore her mom that things need to take a different path forward. It didn't help. Her answer to the above, .. "I don't know what we'll do with her, she's so stubborn".
For starters, at least in my view, .. let's all come to the table for some dialogue on it .. and each of us get our points across .. in a mature/rational/logical fashion.
That wasn't to be, of course.
So fine, we proceed forward, .. SIL waltzes off back to IL . nothing in place, for what I said would be needed, and .. go back and read the hospitalization that occurred with MIL .. soon after babies were born. And how that all fell.
Where was there any "collaboration" on all this, any "team" ....???..... the very person that this so hinged on for so long, had sounded the alarm, and it disregarded. Avoided? Denial? I don't know.
SIL returns to IL ...
Of course, then we have a hurricane upon us approaching Fall of the year .. and MIL in residence here sheltered from the storm and all the fallout from that scene.
Then she isn't back here til xmas .. and that's when MIL fell ..
She hadn't intended to stay here .. except a short stint of xmas and New Year's and then back to IL. Her mom fell of course, .. and then had to be nursed along, and she stayed a whopping four months (unprecedented in all this).
Somewhere in it all, she was to have taken her mom with her, for a stint in IL .. and begin this whole jockeying back and forth ....
That wasn't to be either.
But more importantly there was no .. "consult" .. there was no "let's all come to the table here" ... it was a decision made by SIL/MIL .. absent any input at all, from DH .. and more importantly from me ... who had been an integral part of all this for so long, even though I've have implored numerous times, let's all sit down and talk this through .. each of us air out what our perspective is. Got ignored .. routinely.
SIL waltzes back off to IL .. again .. and this time, rather than the "she's just so stubborn .. I don't know what we'll do with her", and the mother with the "I will manage here" ... it was "she has a team now".
Had there been any "sit down" and "dialogue" in front of all this, I'd of voiced my displeasure at the very fact there is no "TEAM" . that's not realistic .. and we could've maybe talked about how that reality is really going to play out .. but no opinions sought ..
So yes, some might chalk all that up to ... "she has had a tough road too in all this .. and has maybe done the best she can .. as she navigates it all .. with her hands tied behind her back in a mom refusing to be a part of helping in it all".
I would argue that assertion. She .. being the captain of this cruise ship .. should have shown more willingness to come to the table of all parties involved. Not just placate her mom.
Avoidance? Denial? Either way, same result.
So, we're there now .. and things moving in that direction .. let's make sure it stays the course at this point. Very crucial IMO .. having lived it.
She really doesn't want to do this, I would almost bet money on it. That's why she's using every excuse in the book. But neither will she effectively communicate this with you, DH and MIL and look for alternatives, which makes it all the more frustrating.
I like Emily's idea about having a comeback for every one of SIL's excuses so there isn't one, and so MIL does end up getting on the plane in what, 5 days now? Yippee! If that gets done, it's a big step and I know you will be elated.
After she gets to FL, just keep reminding her when it comes up that "it's not safe for MIL to live alone anymore." Then maybe somewhere down the road, an alternative arrangement (NOT going back home) can be brought up again. SIL's kids may even bring it up if they lose their sitter and see their mom running herself ragged.
Doing everything but breathe for her mom .. ergo ... not getting a clear portrayal of just how incapacitated her mom is .. then .. waltzing off to leave her again.
I want to, at least thus far into it all, .. step back .. and give her the clearest portrayal that can be had .. as to what all it takes ..
Just how absent any support is here. Thus far anyway.
As to any set up that would see her, never able to return here again. That may be what transpires ..
But I also see it 50/50 .. when you have someone as compromised as she is .. and she is .. but she then has someone in attendance, around the clock as to her care, her dog's care .. and so forth .. you will see her improve (some at least) ... that edema that is ever present and a problem .. gets mostly negligible in SIL's insistence and hounding, attending around the clock. Her strength .. some improvement there just in the shear fact, she is eating .. something of nutrition on board. Hydration pushed .. etc etc. Yes, MIL hates it that SIL is there at her elbow (or so she says, so she'd have you believe) that her daughter is at her elbow .. hounding her relentlessly. But you do see improvement in the end.
I don't for a minute .. delude myself that SIL will see .. "oh man, this is every bit as bad as Dorker has said .. she just isn't compliant with her meds, she won't eat, she falls all the time .. man oh man .. I can't take her back to FL".
Nope. Not in what I've seen out of SIL.
So until I see this path forward actually looking in a semblance of what I believe it needs to be .. I'm gonna kinda stay over here on the periphery . boundaries firmly in place. Should it all change, .. and things do progress as it's "planned" (supposedly). Absolutely I will step in more, if that means going to IL for several days to stand in SIL's stead to do her job .. offer her respite from it, .. if it means doing what I can for her, from this end, .. as to ordering things she needs .. whatever it is .. at that juncture, that best serves her needs, to work this whole thing. I will do it.
But not until I see that things are taking the path they need to, the path I FERVENTLY believe is the only one forward.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've seen it too frequently, her ability to delude herself in all this. Let's remember that this past xmas when she was here and her mom took a nasty fall, then necessitating she extend her stay here to nurse her mom along, for a whopping FOUR MONTHS .. absent that calamity .. her stays here have been for a period of about 3 weeks .. over the last few years ..
Let's remember, that her stays here, of 2 or 3 weeks at the time, what they entailed .. standing on her head and doing everything her mom would do for herself, in her absence and then some, not even getting a real clear picture of what her mom and cannot do for herself any longer. Denial.
I think, at least from where I stand, more important she get the full brevity . and head-on .. face first .. and for a period of time that really sinks it all in, just what it takes to prop all this up .. and absent any real support in it all.
Maybe they come back here .. and do their stint of a stay here as "planned" .. and she stays put here .. with her mom .. seeing just how bad it is. But there is a propensity in her, that I've seen .. to waltz off and leave it all .. assurances "she'll be fine, she has a team now".
Nope, not buying that record anymore.
So for now, .. she knows .. I have told her, .. (but she'll have to ask) .. if there's anything I can do, to organize and/or pack .. or transport to airport .. whatever, let us know ..
Absent that, it's on her ..
For now ..................
Sadly this is what it ends up looking like, .. when you burn out the main hinge to propping all this up for so long, and more importantly refuse to become part of a "team" mentality as to the approaches going forward.
IMO .... I have seen this far too often .. as things have declined in the last few years and SIL seeing the village that she thinks is available to prop all this up, (me, an integral part of that village for a long time) .. was all too willing to leave status quo.
I realize SIL had a tough road to hoe .. in that her mom HAS NOT wanted to be plucked from her home, that wall has been an ever present impediment. I get that piece of it.
Let me just mention here, it was quite some time ago, .. I don't recall when .. precisely .. but quite a while back .. even before I began sounding any alarm in increasing volume. Their mom sick with her ever present problems of Diarrhea. We all found it most disconcerting .. as we worked to try to get her better (weren't at that point sitting bedside to nurse her along, that would come further into this). Disconcerted, to find that we'd called to check on her, .. to learn that she'd gotten up and fixed herself a pot of grits .. and some OJ for b'fast.
Her in the throes of her ever present gut issues, and .. to find that she think it suitable to make a pot of grits and OJ. And yes, ..it did up-end any progress that had been made.
That was the first little glimpse that maybe her judgement isn't what it should be, and that was quite some time ago.
Now, not that I expected at that juncture, that we all swoop in and bag her up nice and tidy and throw her into some facility somewhere for better management. But I did sound off a bit that maybe she isn't using the best judgement these days and we need to all be aware the day is coming that she will need more care.
All of that to say this. I have seen it, all along the way, SIL's ability to self-delude. I've seen it, far too often, SIL's ability to come here, stand on her head and spin the 40 plates in the air on her feet .. all while running that hamster wheel ever faster, .. and nurse her mom along to more strength .. and off she goes again. Her failing to "see/own" the fact that what she is now witnessing is her mom and her state of being .. with someone in attendance around the clock. That in fact, .. when there is no one there in attendance, .. she falters and falls off the rails .. pretty soon thereafter.
So what does that have to do with the fact that SIL is now carting her off to IL .. FINALLY?
The "plan" if there is to be any plan .. (these folks that don't really talk). They will spend a few mos. in IL .. and then jockey down this way for a few months, and back and forth. To quote SIL the other day:
"Well, .. we'll get her up to our house and she'll be with us, I told her we'd be back here by Christmas, .. we'd spend Christmas here in FL .. so we'll be back, and then we'll stay here, .. I don't know what happens beyond that .. we get to April or whatever .. I just don't know .... I can't think that far ahead, I get too overwhelmed with it all, if I think too far out".
I followed the above, with another nudge, "we see, she clearly can't live alone anymore".
No response.
I don't expect she have all the answers, and for all I know .. MIL will have gone to her great reward and there will be no need to figure out any navigation .. going forward. I don't know, and I get her point, it gets too overwhelming.
From where I sit in all this .. from what my experience has been .. let me see you guys go on to IL for a while, .. see it that it sticks .. that MIL isn't bounced right back down here .. to "live alone, and she'll be fine" .. let me see that transpire and stick .. and then .. your return back here to FL .. and the "plan" as mentioned ..
AND THEN ............... Dorker may step more into the fray a bit, to help, offer respite .. push DH ... etc etc.
SIL has shown time and time again, she has this uncanny capacity at self-delusion .. nursing her mom along, doing everything
This surprised me. Team MIL (almost strangers) should have only been used for MIL's PRESSING needs, not that spoiled dog's nonsense! Like someone else said, Flighty C is a smart cookie. She realized early on that she would be a major part (living next door) of MIL's Caregiving Village. And the housekeeper interrupting her grandchild's pooltime to go get treats for that dog???
But people have a point...since we really think MIL will be gone to IL in 5 (FIVE!!!!) days, maybe it's a good idea to see how you and H can help SIL cross things off her list. H should be over there today...please don't say he's at a church meeting! We already know the padlock-gate order is going to be an issue.
Seems to me - you've won, Dorker. The plan to get mil out of Dodge during hurricane season is in
place with the preparations activity occurring.
It it would be a shame to have it all fall apart now should sil stroke out preforming her rituals - in the name
of belaboring a point.
That probably sounds nastier than I
mean it. Sorry.
But heres the thing - and let’s be candid here...
I think we’re all pretty sure mil
isnt coming back - and if by miracle she does - it will be with sil to do their “couple of months here, couple of months there” thing. Having had mil living with sil will no doubt cement it for sil that mil “can no longer live alone”. SILs spinning like a manic top, bumping along from pillar to post will be very different in ILLINOIS after the initial adjustment period - and she will no doubt see the truth of mil “can no longer live alone”.
But back to the candid part here - I think we all agree that mil won’t be back. So is it really necessary- at this point - to remove yourself from the next five days of needless fluff and fuss to reinforce those boundaries? In consideration of the fact that these will be MILs last - there in Florida.
Boundaries needed once mil is safely tucked in - in SILs neck of the woods? Don’t answer the phone. Easy peasey.
And out of courosity... has it occurred to dh - that short of taking a few days time out of his busy, busy schedule - and making a trip to SILs home - that he likely won’t see his mother again - in the flesh? If it were me - and I stress IF IT WERE ME - just me... I’d mention it to dh that he might want to carve out a few hours from his busy, busy schedule and go spend some time with HIS mother.
As for SIL - start now in that whole “supporting the caregiver” idea cause it’s golden. If you want to salvage any shred of a relationship with sil - after you’ve had time to decompress- start now by giving her the support you wish she and dh had given you. Sorry - no Hall
Pass for dh here. He’s just as guilty as sil is in taking you for granted. Actually more so. You being his life partner and all.
As always - this is merely my humble opinion. So everyone - please put down the cyber rocks. I’m just expressing a different point of view.
I completely agree that from Dorker's point of view, having the stress blowing around as it is is a pain in the neck. But it is not for long. And since we are a caregivers' support forum, a little more charity to someone in SIL's position wouldn't go amiss. In her position and state of mind, how sanguine would you be about it if your car looked like having a tantrum?
Her project for the next few days is to get her mother + dog stabilised, packed and onto the plane, leaving MIL's house reasonably clean and tidy so that it won't fall apart or start to smell. Anything that does not actively contribute to that end needs to go.
Speaking as a great list-maker myself - alas, so enthusiastic about them that I often fall into the trap of congratulating myself on the quality of list and overlook the tasks therein - I would highly recommend a Master List; and if you want to reduce the atmospheric stress levels you could go a step further and assign tasks to yourself, to DH or to any other appropriate person who springs to mind.
E.g., what about offering your next available Thursday as a day to go over to the house and tidy up any loose ends? Then SIL can not worry about having to leave the house 100% ready.
Or, you could corral DH this evening and go over there with a takeout and the aim of getting that list sorted. SIL's state of mind right now is that of one who is trying to get the entire week's work done yesterday. This is unpleasant for you, because of the texting; DH bloody well ought to be feeling terrible if he isn't already; it makes SIL infinitely less productive and efficient; and the tension is bad news anyway and could be much worse news if it aggravates MIL's gut or heart issues.
Firm help now in restoring a little perspective and proportion could be invaluable.
Everybody over the age of 16 knows that the Check Engine light is for sissies. You can drive a week or a month without anything catastrophic happening. If a car is actually running poorly (unresponsive acceleration, balky transmission, stalling, rough idle), it’s quite obvious. While you’re driving. No dash light necessary.
Everybody over the age of 16 also knows that Amazon delivers EVERYTHING. Dog treats. Dog food. Ink cartridges. Baby gates. Depends. Pajamas. Arthritis-friendly devices. Support hose. Scotch tape. The beat goes on.
It is offensive that SIL calls and texts from across the country, badgering multiple people to spend their time, gas and money playing personal shopper for MIL......when SIL could have gotten it the h*ll over with herself with 3 clicks of a mouse.
Freaking insane. SIL’s masters degree and her high-accountability (former) career juxtaposed with her high-strung ninny routine reminds me of this:
A dear friend of mine once worked in a research lab full of PhDs. Every summer, the foundation organized a whitewater rafting trip. Not mandatory. Just a little fun thing. Year after year - without fail - a minimum of one “genius” who doesn’t know how to swim would join the adventure. Most years, more than one. [[sigh]]
SIL has one huge thing in common with her mother: an insatiable need for attention.
When I next looked at it, SIL reporting in that she'd gotten Poochy seen at the vet .. and the SE light still on in the car. That she will maybe go tomorrow while Poochy is at the groomer, to the dealership .. and have them investigate further.
I didn't answer any of it.
Annoying!
Didn't she just go there today, they did whatever diagnostic they do .. and found nothing wrong. Said that it might be the gas cap .. jiggled with it some, that didn't fix it. Advised her to give it a few days .. that it sometimes takes a while.
So okay .. go right back there less than 24 hours later! Go do it.
Not sure why this all has to be reported to me.
And yes EmilySue .. I have told her repeatedly (might as well save my breath) .. if they should get to IL and realize they should've brought <fill in the blanks>, just let us know, we'll get it shipped out to them.
Have and easy answer when you can for all her frets! Like - relax - we'll mail 10 pounds of dog treats to you if you need them. Don't worry! Every thing will work out fine. Just keep saying - we will take care of <whatever> after you're gone. And make DH handle the stuff at that time.
What a hyper ball of manic stress that SIL is! ARGHHHHHHHH
Get MIL on that plane!
It would drive me to distraction too, Dorker, the constant spinning and in a tizzy. But just stay focused on the goal - getting MIL on the plane, and keep your eyes on the prize - sweet relief!