I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Why does DH rail against the fact that you don't want to go to IL for Christmas? He spends much of his free time what suits HIM, hunting and churching.
Are you not afforded the same ability to say what you want and have that wish respected without accusations and anger?
OF COURSE medical professionals say that elders' choices and desires be taken into consideration! We were told that every time we came into contact with social workers, discharge planners, etc.
But at the same time, we all had jobs and mortgages. There was no one who could stay home and tend to my elderly, mildly cognitively impaired, fail but competent mother. Mom had resources and we had tried privately paid aides coming in 24/7, but that didn't suit mom and in fact, made her more anxious.
The point is that MIL's wants and desires don't outweigh the needs of her children. IF she is competent, she can do as she pleases and pay for care, or sign up for government assistance to provide that.
The fly in the ointment is and always has been, that SIL wants to direct you all as to what to do without there being a plan.
Her brother also has not seen the need for a plan; just the need for a band-aid (the band-aid has a name: Dorker) every d@mn day, leaving Dorker no ability to plan her own life/career/babysitting responsibilities.
I think that your reply to any future requests should be "what plan have you and your sister come up with to ensure that your mother is cared for? What assessments are you planning to have? What plan is there for applying for aid for her?
I will not care for her in her home or in mine; I WILL, if there is a plan, participate in research, but only if there is will on the part of you BOTH to see this through to placement."
I wonder why SIL asked "Can Dorker go and....." rather than asking HER BROTHER to do something?
Why would she assume that you are the point person in FL for THEIR MOM'S CARE?
Don't THEY love her?
-------------------------------------------------------
Just a prime example the sister does not "listen/hear" what is said to her. Why would she ask "can Dorker go ....?" .. and not ask her brother .. because that's been the well established pattern over the last 15 years .. it's been Dorker at the head of the FL team .. and not her brother .. and so that's the "go to" move.
"Don't they love her?"
Indeed .. point made.
Look, it doesn't matter now .. at all .. I am out of all this. But the last communication had with SIL .. was via that b's text she sent, blowing sunshine up my skirt .. she'd have you believe MIL is out running a marathon . ..
And of course, I'd asked of her to "call us, some issues with the text, call us .. don't text" ..
And then beyond that, I mistakenly fired off my thoughts/frustrations in what I thought was a text to DD .. explaining the latest, and peppered yes, with my frustrations in it all, and mistakenly sent it to SIL not to DD.
Discovered my misstep and then sent another text " As you can see, some frustrations and need to "Talk" to you, not text .. call us".
To that, there was a response from her .. when she got in late from having helped her daughter with a dog that got skunked . and having just seen all of it .. she responded, .. that she can see I am frustrated, . looks like these texts were meant for DD .. and ... she goes on from that to say that .. "besides that, even the healthcare folks say, we must all remember that mother has her own wants and sentiments as to her circumstances and her setting and be mindful of that always"
That was the LAST communication at all with her. At that I blocked her ability to text me any longer. She'd made no mention whatsoever, of anything akin to, "I will call you guys when I can". She simply responded that we all have to be mindful of the mother's wants.
It was my propensity to fire back at her, "WHAT THE LIVING H3&& do you think the last 15 effing years have been about?".
But no, I just blocked her ability to text me any longer. I'm sure she has sent texts .. maybe back a couple of weeks ago, that sit in cyber space somewhere, .. I know her, .. she doesn't "LISTEN" ...
I had said as I sent that mis-sent text .. that I thought was landing in DD's ear to apprise her .. but I mistakenly sent it to SIL .. it said in there, peppered with my own frustrations . that I am done .. I am out of this entirely I can't continue to help in all this, I'm done .
She obviously read it.
But she doesn't "LISTEN".
So why is she reaching out to her brother with a "Can dorker go ....?" ..
Because she doesn't LISTEN.
I'm done arguing about it .. she doesn't "have to listen" to me ... nor do I care to even engage in anything that I think she needs to be doing .. do it how you want . going forward .. if you think it best to leave her do it (I won't announce it but you can bet APS will get a report from me, anonymously) .. if that's what you think needs to happen .. do it .. .I'm no longer begging/pleading that they throw me a morsel of a crumb of any understanding and comprehension of what it is I see and think in it all.
And no, FL isn't a state where the nearest relative is held culpable for the old and infirm .. not in FL.
But anyway .. just so part and parcel of her failure to "LISTEN".
They don't know how long it will take for placement .. but that the sister is working on that, and she is not going to leave her again .. they will come back here .. and if and when it's necessary that SIL return to IL .. either mother goes with her back to IL, or there is placement, leaving her is no longer an option.
Explaining to him, who is finally actively listening instead of throwing it at me, "We'll all just have to do the best we can", which is what I heard forever in all this .. him finally "listening". Explaining to him, that's where all this hurt comes from DH .. she returns to IL .. repeatedly .. me over here raising the roof that it doesn't work, requires more care than I can deliver .. and yet the directives fly and if you were approached it would be your wrath aimed at me. THIS WAS NEVER MINE TO OWN ............
He did apologize .. .for the fact that I was in this so long that it got me to the point I am .. and then assure . that he is the "other" of the two managing it now .. and I won't be expected to do a thing. (We'll see, words are cheap).
And on the topic of his mom .. and my assertion, "DH she doesn't think clearly anymore, there are cognitive issues, that you guys refuse to look at and investigate".
He chimed in with some sadness that every time he talks to his mom .it's almost like you've turned on a recording that play the same thing in a loop, her words:
"This is just not good here, .. this isn't good .. that I've been brought here, this isn't good here .. and you know, I haven't been out .. since I got here, I've not been anywhere .. it's just not good here, this is not where I need to be, I need to be back in my house with my things and that's where me and M (her dog) need to be".
He tells me this is what he hears every time he talks to his mom, as if it's on a loop being played over and over. Concurring that her brain doesn't work right .. and he said this: "She seems to think that if she can just get back to FL that me and you .. we're the gatekeeper to that .. that if we would both just say .. yea mom .. c'mon back home .. we'll come get ya .. and it'll all be fine .. we'll tell sister to go pound sand .. you'll be fine .. she seems to think that the answer to all this is to get her back into her home .. and that he had countered .. "Mom you guys just went to the casino and had a birthday lunch and you had a great time" to which she said "oh yea, yes well we did do that", he goes on to tell me, "He77 she wasn't going outside and doing anything when she was here, but there is a disconnect in her brain . she is somewhere in her brain .. she's like in a movie set or something .. that if she can just get back to her home .. she's gonna be the little old lady that lives in her home she so cherishes .. and prattles about there .. she has that as her vision .. "
So him concurring that his mom doesn't think right.
As I said before, this is all a "step", a hard, bitter fought step .. that's all it is, in the fact that there is at least a recognition and an "EAR" that is imperative to this situation that "listened" .. finally. Will deed match words? I guess we'll see.
I'm not pushing anymore, for AL or a rocket to the moon for that matter .. nor any cog work up .. or anything else. It's all on them now .. as it should've been long ago.
No, I think you're right, .. does he "own" and wear it that he was a huge part of why I am hurt .. not so much no .. his mindset is one of grabbing that box off the shelf that says "time to get on with it, and this is what we need to do and moving on now".
Is there danger in that, you bet there is. If he doesn't understand how this so wounded me, then the real propensity is there to have expectation that it can all be thrown in dorker's corner again .. you bet I see that. And yes, .. it does hang our marriage in the balance .. I see that also, very clearly ..
I was "heard" that's all. An improvement.
To that he answers to it all that there is an awareness that she can never be left alone again .. she can't manage (well hooray for that .. my GOD what it took for you two to see it) .. and .. <I'm still not sold that SIL will fall on that sword and see it through, but not up to me and I don't care, he seems to be able to comprehend that, .. I'm not sure how much the sister does and is willing to fall on that sword of .. oh well I guess I gotta now spend my life every single day .. in the care of this situation>.
He says that there is an AL angle being worked .. by SIL .. and to answer Barb's question .. I got the sense that it was asked of him "Can dorker do ________", maybe something with the whole AL path .. maybe she's also caring for her mom, but also .. now navigating .. and from up there in IL, the path forward for placement here in FL somewhere . and how to get that achieved, and I got the sense maybe it had something to do with the numerous phone calls and/or .. go out there and look in the drawer in the bureau and see if you can find the paperwork that has to do with _______I need the income stuff off of that .. and blah blah blah. I got the sense that maybe that was what was asked of him, "Can Dorker go do ______", to which he cut her off and explained no . that Dorker is done .. ".
But all to explain that AL is now being looked at, .. and sister is beginning to cross that intersection .. and the path to how to get there. Further extrapolating that they will be here .. he doesn't know when .. but at some point they come back this way .. I guess if MIL is to be AL bound .. she wants it to be FL but MIL does not want that path forward .. him concurring with me that is what has to happen .. that yes, it's made sadder by the fact, she can still think .. it would be easier if she can't think .. but she can ... but I guess, AL is to be at some point in all of this, who knows when .. and so it is said it will be in FL . that's where she wants to be, not in IL. So he goes on to explain further, that they will be back here at some point, don't know when Dec/Jan/Feb .. who knows .. he doesn't know .. but when they do get back this way that sister knows she cannot leave her anymore .. she doesn't manage .. and so she'll have to stay with her .. and that if she thinks .. and those utterings become part of all of this ... thinks she's gonna leave her again .. that she will have to deal with HIM . not me .. that he won't stand for it .. because he cannot be off work all day every day to attend to his mom .. and so he will have something to say about that.
To which I interjected, .. "I've heard all this before .. and only to watch your sister walk away and with assurance that your mom will manage, and your assurance that we have a TEAM now ... do you know ......???......where's that TEAM DH .. where were they .. you had assured she has a TEAM now the last time .. (listing each and pointing out they were nowhere a part of any of this while she sat there chitting all over the place for 3 weeks that her daughter chose to dog sit up in IL).
He says that they know, . she cannot be left alone .. that AL is being worked
He did actively "listen/hear" me ... which is really more than has occurred over the last few years this all ratcheted up to where it is now. I think you're right, that "Y" chromosome .. maybe he will never get it, how wounded I have felt. I don't know that he does "get that". As he put it, .. "I am just . ya know .. I'm over here . and I pull out the box (proverbial) that says *I'm moving on now from this and here's the plan* and so I do that, I'm moving on with this, and I've got it now, nobody is going to be asking you to do anything, I've made that clear to my sister".
He seemingly felt very much "in the middle" between .. what he would describe (I would differ w/his opinion there) .. as his bewildered and upset mother and sister and myself. Feels "in the middle", all while his focus is on that box he pulled off the shelf .. and it reads "get on with it, moving on along".
So, yes you're right that he doesn't get that .. how much hurt this has all caused. He may never get that part of it. Doesn't matter I don't guess, other than .. he is going to have to forge ahead in the battle on his own . and that's what the crux of it is anyway.
It's interesting .. (I think he was kinda parroting words he hears from his sister) .. his words: "Ya know, everybody says mom needs to be in AL somewhere, everybody says it .. everybody that spends time around her .. the church folks .. everybody .. but ya know .. she still has a brain .. she still has her own wants for her life, ... this would all be different if she didn't even know who she is anymore .. she does .. and so it's just hard .. terribly hard to force her to do something she doesn't want to do, when she has a brain of her own". Very much something the sister hangs her hat on .. and has for quite a long while.
And my response to that: "DH it doesn't matter to me what you guys do, I am out of this .. and whether AL is the future, .. or sitting in her home in a pile of chit up to her eyeballs .. if that's what you guys think is best, because by GOLLY she can still "think" .. then do that .. it's your mom ... I guess in yall's view .. and yall get to call the shots, she's your mom .. I guess in yall's view .. as long as she knows who she is .. .and where she is, .. and can rotely recite enough to convince you guys she has a brain .. then AL or SNF . will never be a path forward .. and in the end, that's yours and your sister's decision .. but absent any placement anywhere, her body is failing her ... I don't know .. I haven't been in and out of these sites to know what and who is there, but I suspect she's not the only one that can still think, but has a body that has failed her .. yes, there are some there that don't know who they are anymore, .. but there are likely others there, that do know who they are .. but they can't ambulate well enough to take care of themselves.
"And not only that DH . I have maintained for a long time your mom has some cognitive issues .. I mean . look she argues with you that she can sit right there in her home, not having to be carted outta there, in the event of a hurricane, no power .. she thinks that's just fine .. .she's FL born and raised .. .and she will be fine .. and you and she argue about that ... she has some disconnect in how she thinks .. .many examples of that, her insistence that she'll be fine right there, she'll manage
What DH has yet to grasp - and I am making huge allowances for the unfortunate Y chromosome handicap but he really has to get this point - is how hurt you have been by the continual strain of the last, let's say, ten years; and by the family's blindness to the increasing distress AND anxiety about MIL that you have been signalling.
You have been wounded, and you are now hors de combat. That is nothing like the same thing as abandoning your comrades.
Why would she assume that you are the point person in FL for THEIR MOM'S CARE?
Don't THEY love her?
But we thought... "I can't control what you think. I just know I did the best I could and I can't do it any more.
To MIL, "If you come back here and live alone, we could be charged with neglect. Not a place I want to go. Now, let's you and your kids figure out a plan for what is doable, going forward."
To SIL, " If you find her care, in your home , overehelming, what do you and your brother think her care needs would be if you returned her To her shambles of a home? How is that caring for your mom? It's acceding to her wants, but not meeting her needs... please get an impartial needs assessment and follow that guidance."
("I'm not about that, just want the cloud"). "Then you need to tell your children that you'd like to sign on to hospice. Have that conversation with them".
Dorker, you're out of this.
Just, any ideas on ...
What do you even say at this point?
I'm not even interested in any conversation that steers towards justifying why I ended up where I am. This was never mine to own, they were only beneficiaries of kindness extended far beyond any ability to appreciate it.
Here's how it was reported to me:
That DH says about like this, .. "Well Dorker that statement . that "we" don't think you even love mom anymore, .. the reason for that .. sister had asked, . "can dorker go do ___________", and I told her, I cut her off before she even got it out of her mouth .. "No .. dorker is out of this, entirely, she has washed her hands of the whole thing".
The next response was, .. "Well God that hurts .. I mean .. why? ... I thought she helped mom because she loves her".
This is how it got reported as convo between he and his sister.
To which I responded, interjected as follows".. and interestingly enough DH, she has yet to call me .. let's talk about DH the pervasive pattern of her repeatedly ignoring my pleas . thru the years, that we need to talk .. so let's establish that .. but now . now that chit has hit the fan in it all, she seems perplexed and wants to hang it all on "we thought she did what she did because she loved mom" .. and then just leave that hanging. To which DH reports he'd answered his sister, "she does Love mom .. she is SPENT with all this .. just spent".
He got one sliver of it right .. but it's bigger than that, and of course, he wasn't absorbing/hearing the other bigger part of all this ..until this morning .. (in all these years it built to this point). There is a "bigger' picture.
But anyway .. at that my point in it all was .. I asked your sister 2x's to call and she never did and you made it worse by telling me she doesn't owe me a damn thing, she's not gonna call you".
At that point, he picked up his phone, "I'm going to tell sister to call you, I can't speak for you and all the finite points of all this .. she needs to talk to you .. and hear it from you .. not from me".
Thus, the prompting of a phone call.
Thus I say .. *what to even say at this point*.
SIL: Gee Dorker .. we have been so upset that you just don't call anymore, and DH tells me that you are just done, spent .. ya know, we thought you did what you did because you love mom".
ME: "I do love your mom, very much".
SIL: "Well, .. I mean . I guess I just struggle to understand how it is that you feel like you can't help anymore, at all, but you profess to love her, that doesn't seem to make any sense to me".
I'm just envisioning the above as some kinda dialogue. I don't want to get into a tit for tat, "you did thus and so SIL .. so I'm just done".
I don't care anymore, I've made the decision that works for me .. for a lot of reasons . and nothing is going to dissuade me from that stance .. I don't want to argue, I don't wish to justify .. I don't wish to hash and re-hash what should've been and could've been that would've seen things not get to this juncture . what's done is done .. and I am too.
So what do you even say?
I guess, ostensibly . she has been prompted to reach out in a phone call this way . on the premise .. he can't speak for me and the finite points . and I have valid points that need to be heard and by the horse's mouth (SIL).
Me; I don't hate you, I don't hate your mom . I don't hate anyone, I am just done, for a whole host of reasons that are really at this point, don't even bear mentioning .. I'm sorry that equates to you somehow that I don't "love" you guys . that's something you'll have to work through . because that isn't my stance, never has been".
I just don't even know what to say at this point.
Did Pastor tell you that you should do that?
At this point, I would be guided by his advice.
He and his wife visited MIL at her home, yes? And saw how frail and compromised she was, yes? And I believe made a comment that she should not be living alone, unsupported, yes? (Please correct me if I'm wrong).
SIL is scared? Of you? Of her mom? Of what's to come?
DH (and by extension, his sister) need to hear from someone OTHER THAN YOU that MIL living alone is no longer an option. I would be humming and responding with "that's nice dear" to anything that was said.
Dorker, you have NO RESPONSIBILITY in this situation. I don't mean to sound mean, but stop inserting yourself into the conversation. If they ask/tell/direct you to do something, you simply say "no, I can't possibly do that; it's not safe".
You leave it at that because YOU and the pastor know that it's the truth. If DH and SIL can't hear or get that, it's their problem.
Look, I think that Rainmom and others have both pointed out to you, about 3000 posts ago, that your marriage might not survive this ordeal.
That's a choice you have to make. But just stop trying to justify why you are no longer propping up. It's the only way that DH and sis are going to get to talk.
My opinion only.
Someone more objective ... offers of what can be said at this point ....
Apparently her *fear* that was the supposed reason there's been no call (not sure why there were no calls over the last few years this heated to a fever pitch but whatever) ... apparently a fire lit under her ... or smoldering coals .. I don't know ... started by DH at the root of my REFUSAL to "own" that I've chit canned anybody.
So I guess there is to be some semblance of an attempt to phone (whatever ... I see the veil here ... call would have never come as long as I'd march in lock step to the neurosis and OCD on that end)
Truly ... I don't care ... I don't wish to send bridges burning in a blazing inferno of destruction.
But by the same token
.. just ... whatever you need to say SIL that simulates whatever semblance of what you would term reaching out (obviously initiated outside of any self motivation and/or ability to look at what a mess one's own front porch is)
What to say ... ???
Have a nice life..hope it all works out for you and your brother .. wish you all the best ..buh'bye now.
What? Say What?
I would drop it. You have tortured yourself enough.
There is nothing you can say that you haven’t already said.
DH has talked to her. Let them figure this out.
DH is talking the talk. Let’s see how long he will walk the walk.
So so aware. The proof will be in the deed not in words.
Yep, braced for crash landing on it all.
I'm encouraged by a phone call from the pastor this morning who had apparently been contacted by DH.
Pastors word: "as I told him ... your wife is terribly hurt by all of this and it's your job to love your wife as Christ loves the church and from what she shared with me there's been none of that. I'm going to hold you accountable .. and we Will, going forward, be visiting this issue ... if you value your marriage and your Christian walk, we can work to get through this with hearts in tact. But this is at your feet, not your wife's and you don't get to treat her this way not and profess to be a leader in the church and a Christian man of faith and a loving supportive husband .. doesn't work like that and you know that"
He went on to tell DH that at some point .. it's his understanding they are to return to FL and somewhere on the horizon is AL and that he will have an even tougher walk when they return here but that he has a huge accountability in that setting also and there will be dialogue going forward... this isn't a one and done thing by any stretch.
Pastor having shared the above and that he does intend to sit down soon with both he and I.. and his wife there .. if we'd like ... informal ... come have coffee at their house and that it's his intention this be an ongoing conversation as to how things look in real time on the ground on all this.
DH called at some point after the above phone call from the pastor, reiterating pretty much what their conversation had been.
No I don't delude myself one iota that some holy light has completely restored clarity and now everything rocks along fine. Far from it.
Most important though ... I am out of all this ... firmly out of it and there seems to be at least a step as to some understanding as to the why's vs the resentment and bitter anger exhibited before.
Until ... like you describe ... a church function or hunting trip gets upended and we see where the "deed vs words" in all this falls. Your mom. Get to steppin.
One other thing ... he has reached out to his sister in effort to ....get her to "listen/hear" what I have to say about why I am at this juncture (But also to get him out of the middle of it as professed by him) .... he reports her struggle to understand ... my sentiments (she's apparently a lot more dense than I ever considered...or maybe the point is .. it's intentional on her part. If I profess to not understand where Dorker is .. then I don't have to play nice).
He says that he has shared with her that I am hurt ... that I did a whole lot on this scene for a very long time and feel completely disposable and hurt by some of what she's done.
Says he has encouraged her to call me as he can't speak to my various points of contention .. only I know those details.
I am working on what will be a long outline of an email to send her, one that would be far broader than any phone conversation neither of us have the time for.
But I'm torn ... maybe just skip it.... any explanatory email and just leave it brief and don't go into with her any points/markers of her participation in having broken this whole thing ... which is what my inclination is to do.
In the end I have zero intention of re-entering any capacity as caregiver in any of this and that isn't going to change not even a sliver.
It's now up to solely the two of them.
So covering the various points that broke this whole thing ... when in the end .. even if she fell to her knees (she won't) in sorrow as to the err of her part in it all ...
It's not going to change anything I do going forward. I'm done...no amount of promise that I'm now heard ... promise to do better .. nothing ... I'm done.
So ... explanatory email or just what ...???
Just drop it?
But if you are thinking that ONE NIGHT of marinating in the juices of his own hypocrisy has opened dh’s eyes to the unvarnished truth regarding his part in this whole chitshow- you are kidding yourself, Dorker. Or, perhaps you are seeing what you want to see. What you NEED to see.
Understandable.
Understandable but terribly naive - and terribly foolish- perhaps even reckless - as I’m afraid you are setting yourself up for yet another disappointing blow.
Sure. Right now dh may be putting his hands together in contrition- and he’ll keep them together through his talk with the pastor - and perhaps they’ll stay together for a while after that.
Dh will tow the Good Christian Leader and Husband line long enough to re-secure his standing in the eyes of your pastor. Cause ya see, Dorker - in going to the pastor you have threatened the primary food source for dh’s ego. And, dh is now scrambling in defensive mode to resecure that all important source.
The pity of it all - is that dh will do what’s necessary to win back the pastors approval - not yours.
Im sure you do get it. The “why didn’t you come to me so we could talk about it?” as a gigantic load of talk and crap. Yes? Cause if that whole initial “chit-canned” conversation went as you relayed it here - “Just stop” translates to “shut up”. Guestshop may speak Narc - I am fluent in Dysfunctional Relationship.
Those kind of spots don’t change overnight. They just don’t - I don’t care how intently one prays. And, the next time SIL and/or MIL drops a load of chit and responsibility at dh’s feet - he’s gonna lash out and blame you - again.
I saw this all coming a looong time ago. I even brought it up to you here. I say this now - not as a way of saying “I told ya so” or to establish myself as The Oracle of Aging Care. But to remind you of what your reply to me was. You said “I have to believe my near 40 year marriage is strong enough to handle it” - or very similar words to that effect. The task of sifting through a few thousand posts proved too daunting for an exact quote. But that was the gist of it.
So, I guess you’ll find out - just how strong. If anyone’s eyes have been opened - it’s been yours. But as I did back in my original post regarding how your marriage may be effected by this MIL debacle- consider your next moves with your relationship with your husband in mind.
While one never knows what the future holds - common sense dictates that you and dh will still be here long after Mil floats off on her cloud.
May the sunshine break through. Loving thoughts to you both, and enjoy the babes.
Prayer ... maybe and intervention from God. I'm not sure. But evident in words this morning from his corner there is an awareness of what this has done to my heart in damaging ways, him as culprit and on the part of his sister.
It's clearer than it's been .. finally ... that he 'gets it.
I think from what's said this morning that the scales of denial in all of this, on his eyes, have been peeled back. Finally.
I have my twins for the day so their mommy can go with the older sibling to a field trip at school.
But wanted to update those of you who have been SO MUCH support.
If I am who I say I am, the good Elder, the paragon of Christian virtue, I would be confident that through my actions, my peers would see the fault in Dorker’s words. Would counsel Dorker to submit, to follow the Bible precepts. I would have Perfect Faith that those who knew me would believe in me.
But I believe in my heart of hearts that I have feet of clay. That I will be found out and the Shadow Christian of words and deeds will be seen in truth. It is easier to heap abuse upon one that I think will simply take it rather than do hard things. To blame the victim. To point one finger at you rather than see three fingers pointed back at myself. To a narc, it’s all about how it LOOKS. how they tell you reality SHOULD be. Dorker, he doesn’t understand why an abusive situation is now too much after 15 years of increasing problems. He may never understand. Can you forgive him and move on within the marriage if the pastor cannot soften his heart? What he and the women in his life think is not what you have done. You did not fear what the pastor would think. You are fighting for a marriage. Is he? If he insists the price of marriage is unquestioning obedience, is he the Christian he professes to be? My FIL was stunned at my refusal to submit, when I told my husband that I refused to see an abusive alcoholic narc as head of household because he went to church one time in 10 years and the minister told him he was. I told hubs he was not taking our son to a church hubs never attended at the direction of a Christmas Christian who wanted free labor in failing health. Judge by their deeds. We judge you by yours, Dorker, and you are good and faithful and loving. It’s not loving to deny care and keep someone in a dangerous situation. It’s not good to use false words to a spouse. So hugs and bright thoughts to you. Hug the children and be their guide.
As long as Dorker will step to the continual beat of your sister's neurosis and OCD all things MIL ... and keep her mouth shut .. things will rock along nicely. I asked her 2x's . yet somehow this falls in "MY LAP" that I've chit canned your sister and our mom .. explain that ..
He said this as response, which is just chicken chit.
"I think she's scared".
I'm sorry .. let me choke a moment .. "SCARED?".
Folks I have never once been violent .. ever .. with anyone .. in any sense .. nor am I one to fly off in a damn rage and say horrible things .. never ... that is not me .. never has been, not even one time.
SCARED?
OF WHAT?
Accountability maybe .. ???...ya think ... having to absolutely face the damn music that if you want me steppin to the beat of your damn drum .. you better be talking to me .. and you know you haven't . repeatedly ..
(too late for that, that drum is all busted to h377 and gone)
But anyway .. I didn't say any of that, the only thing I did say was, "SCARED!?!??!?! For God's sake .. grow up .. that's when people talk, when thee is a problem, that's what normal people do .. they talk . and find a solution . but not you guys . no you retreat to your go to move of anger .. and she retreats to ignoring and obfuscating .. all while each of you hand out your directives as to what wasn't mine to own to begin with".
The long and short of it all:
1) He is processing .. and with much difficulty .. that I would've taken this outside of our household to discuss.
As he was told, .. "if you handled things right .. would there be anything to take outside of this household?, think about that for a minute".
2) I think he is truly .. I'm not even kidding ... he is truly out to lunch on why there should be any problem at all here. . Truly is. If you listen to him .. (and he's right about that aspect of it) .. you're out of all this .. you don't handle it well, .. you're out of it .. me and sister are doing this .. so .. it's out of your periphery at this point .. you don't have to do any of it ..
He can't get his brain wrapped around the fact .. wants to assert that the nose dive off the cliff in this whole thing was when SIL pulled the rug out from under the Rehab setting that I thought it should go to . .. and that's not my decision.
He seems to hang his hat on that notion. Even though I've told him .. that wasn't the final straw in all this . the final straw was your sister insulting my intelligence with her b's texts that the climate there isn't good as confirmed by the visiting nurse .. and she needs to be brought back to FL .. and the bit about . besides that mother isn't as bad off as the others .. even the nurse said so, doesn't appear to warrant inpatient for anything, not bad off enough .. and the final fatal blow her leaving hanging .. that she and her DH will bring her back here and stay til spring . and then just leaves it hanging ...
I asked her to call us .. 2 x's .. told her plainly there are some issues with what you've texted, call us, don't text. And she hasn't .. and then you made it worse by telling me, "she's not gonna call you DORKER .. she doesn't owe you a damn thing, nobody does".
He can't seem to get that through his head, the above .. yes the pulling the rug out from under any Rehab site .. yes that pizzed me off badly . but I let it go .. what's done is done (think it's a stupid move . but it's not up to me) . but don't insult my intelligence with that b's text .. and try to blow sunshine up my skirt .. I'm not that stupid. That was the final death knell in it all.
It doesn't matter at this point .. I want out of this crazy train and I'm out . .that is what matters. I don't care if you guys want to park her in a palace somewhere just make damn sure her needs don't fall in my corner, not when you guys fail so miserably at communication!
I guess, when he'd read in my text that I'd talked to the pastor .. maybe he had visions of grandeur that his wife has come to her senses and gone to seek forgiveness of her ways .. and is stepping back in. That's kinda the only thing I can figure must've been his notion. cuz it sure wasn't one of any epiphany that I should seek counsel from anyone outside this household, in any times of trouble, more to the point him as the source of said troubles.
I think he'd of liked me to cower in a crumble, at his words .. when he wanted to chastise that I would do such. "What did you tell the pastor ..???,, why would you do that ..???....why would you go paint me as that .. that's not what I did, I didn't say that .. that's not what I meant .. you shouldn't of done that, you should've given me the chance to talk about it before going to the pastor".
All that kinda hooey. . But I stood my ground . .. "no, ..???.. not what you said, let me quote ... "
Now are you going to tell me I'm lying . .I didn't lie to the man .. I told him what's been going on here, DH this is wrecking our marriage .. and turning it into shambles . and you don't even care, look at ya right now, far more worried about any tarnished image than you are the damage you've caused here ..
You've yet to .. in all of this, as it crumbled and disintegrated right in front of your face, . you have yet to, once .. even listen to me, as to how it got this way ..
His take one of .. pretty much .. dumbfounded/clueless .. aggravated/agitated .. and absolutely beyond any shadow of any doubt .. just perplexed beyond belief why I'd have any problem at this point, .. "I'm taking it over, .. I've told my sister .. she's asked if you will go do ___________ and I told her no . no .. she is done .. she is out of this, has washed her hands of it all".
Him saying that in a manner that I'm supposed to be okay with all of this .. I mean afterall, he has taken it on now, and is doing what he can . and I'm not the least bit even a slightest notion in any of it, as to stepping up.
Doesn't that solve all this?
Though not said with any kindness.
In the end, .. lots said .. none of it real productive .. the end result has been one of .. I guess I would sum it up . that he is just absolutely taken back . .that his image has been tarnished .. by my going to the pastor .. and he is seemingly working through that .. that alone .. a hard pill for him to even contemplate .. but beyond that ... through some of the talking .. .I don't know that he agrees .. in fact I know he doesn't .. but at least he "heard" me, when I cited some of the reasons that things have gotten to where they are presently...
One interesting point was when I approached that you don't get to say the things you said to me, that I've chit canned your mom and sister .. I did no such thing .. .and beyond that .. that I don't love your mom . .you don't get to say those things .. and then refuse to talk about it . which is what you did.
The following is of interest to me:
"Well that's what you've done . you've chit canned both of them .. you don't care about either one of them".
I then said the following: "Okay .. .I'm truly trying to understand here and wrap my brain around how it's perceived that way by you, .. why it is this is "MY FAULT" . .that there is a divide here .. did I not ask your sister 2x's to call me .. you're aware that I did that, .. did I not ask that .. there is a pervasive pattern here that has been long standing that all is well as long as Dorker will step to the beat
So go the day after or the day after that?
I've already got, on the calendar, meeting up with my family on Dec 31 and forward for a few days, centrally located campground. We all have cabins reserved. Going to ring in the New Year and enjoy being together with my family.
So, not on my radar as to any IL trip in that time range.
Might be right ... it'd be the *perfect* opportunity.... send MIL along for her much promised trip back to FL at Christmas. Maybe ... underlies some of it. Wouldn't put it past em.
So go DH. That's what you'd like to do at Christmas ... go. I'm fine with it. Could be her last Christmas for all any of us know. You want to go. Do it.
I don't.
So there's a plan underlying this to cart your mom back. Go for it.
Not anything I think viable but it's been made as abundantly clear as can be ... I'm outta this. Sound like a plan to you guys? Jump all over it. Count me and my chit canning, un-loving, selfish self out of it.
Do NOT go!
FWIW .. I have to snicker a bit ..
I guess it was last week that a message had come in while I was working, .. a voice mail .. SIL .. or MIL or both .. I don't know .. I never listened to it to know who was talking ..but one of the two or both .. sending directive this way as to the need for a car tag #, so that the car tag can be renewed. I forwarded it to on to DH.
Yes, something so simple, so benign . and in truth .. painless to go drive out to MIL's . them in IL and unable to see to it .. go lift her garage door, write down a tag # and call them .. simple .. a nothingness of a thing to have asked.
I didn't speak to it . sent it to DH .. and what he did with it .. don't know. But . have at it DH. I got no pushback ..
And yesterday .. I don't even know when .. .don't know why .. why am I on any list of phone nos to call ... but a message from somebody, voice mail, somebody with MOW .. wanting to know do they need to terminate that service, .. a service that was placed on temporary hold .. and so wanting to know .. do we wish to continue in suspense with it, or terminate the service. That voice mail left on my phone. Not even sure how my number is a contact on that issue, I was never on the front to have set up MOW's .. maybe SIL gave them my # as a local contact at some point .. ..
But whatever. That message too, . .yes a simple phone call to SIL up in IL, "Hey SIL . how you guys doing up that way? Good to talk to ya .. hey listen .. the MOW people are calling here, they want to know .....blah blah blah". Get an answer, call the MOW people back and answer the question. A simple nothingness of a task that would be so easy to see to.
And it seems almost petty and impetuous even .. for me to just forward that on .. and dispense with it. There is a realization in me, that it's a nonthingness of a task .. as would've been the car tag.
But .. so be it . nothingness .. dispense with it DH. Forward it to your sister to deal with or don't, .. not on me any longer, even to answer to the simplest most mundane of nothingness tasks. .
And no it's not done from a "See how ya like them apples". It's done from a standpoint of .. "I am out of this .. I want nothing more to do with it, even something as simple as looking at a damn car tag # to write it down and provide it .. and or re-opening up an ability to text, so that this voice message can be forwarded".
SIL is going to have to retrain her brain that any local contact #'s need to be given out for anything, she better be giving them DH's # .. that's where the info lands now days anyway ... it gets forwarded to him to dispense with.
How much have either one of them looked up and researched and absorbed about what c'giving looks like .. what should be the set up in a c'giving world .. how much have either of them delved into that, outside of their vacuum.
I can answer as far as DH. Zero
And I suspect, it's much the same with SIL.
I had read somewhere in a c'giving info I'd come across .. kinda profound. "If you are to be the c'giver, lead in that role, then look to see if there is any assistance with family or friends .. and if you have some that are willing .. count yourself fortunate ... most don't .. but if you do .. it's imperative that you reach out and keep an OPEN line of communication with each who will assist .. and clearly define what roles each will play and honor that. To do otherwise, is where resentment and anger grows".
BINGO.
How do I know that?
Because I don't live in a damn vacuum with all this. Can't say the same for either of them . .and it's not my mom folks!
God if I'd only had a crystal ball 15 years ago .. they'd of looked in my direction to a hand up with a declaration of "nope don't look in this direction .. not helping".
Everybody says to me, .. even the pastor said it .. ."Some appreciation would be nice wouldn't it .. a thank you .. just some appreciation".
I can't get anybody to understand that I don't want thank you's .. and atta'gals .. I don't care ... just quit crucifying me .. because of your failures. Deal with YOUR MOM however you see fit to deal with her, but none of that .. NONE OF it is on me .. NONE. Never was.
I haven't spoken one word to the SIL. I have her blocked as to any text capability and it will remain that way. She knows how to reach me via phone .. and if she cares to do so, I'm right here where I've always been. If she doesn't . that's okay too.
The truth of the matter if anybody would listen in any of this .. is that it had become a dynamic where I was the step to it .. fetcher .. and any friendship that i thought forged eons ago in our ability to socialize and enjoy one another's company that has so long since passed. Oh, I've said that to DH before, and his take on it all has been "Dorker, she is mired in mom's care .. she doesn't come up for air, we all know that .. she doesn't make the time even herself to go smell the roses .. she's not gonna come up for air, to go have lunch with you or anyone else . that's how it is these days in mom's care". To my response of, .. "....and that in and of itself isn't indicative to either one of you dumb azzes that her care requires that much energy and devotion that you can't even come up for air long enough to be a friend .. to honor a friendship, the level of care is that DEEP"
It had very much become .. it had evolved from a dynamic that at one time, we did go and see a movie .. or go to lunch .. or go get a pedicure together, .. just thing that friends do. That aspect of it all, so long gone and off any radar anywhere .. and the only communication was the step n fetch need, constant need. Oh I'd implore, used to .. "hey why don't you come up for air .. and me and DH and you and B .. we can go catch a movie on Sunday afternoon .. "
I quit doing it, it was always a deck to pressure watch or PJ's that needed ironing or she had to go watch the grass grow . or the paint dry .. or whatever the he77 it was that occupied her presence.
So .. yes I have blocked her ability to text me .. and she can call if she'd like, or not. Either way, doesn't matter to me.
BUT DO NOT PUT IT ON ME, that I have chit canned anybody .. looks to me to have been a two-way street that long ago, has been deserted.
Just so blatantly obvious that this is all about, the pillars that propped this up .. that should've had some shoring up somewhere along the way in some dialogue and open communication that I begged for, for a long time .. those pillars are now a mere pile of rubble .. and it's busted.
Compare and contrast:
I did this? What about you?! You're much worse! You did x y z, you didn't do a, b, c....
and
Don't hold me responsible for your choices.