I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
I have no idea what the story is with any basement work on the end in IL .. for all I know it's completed and over with. Or .. still pending. I don't know. Don't care really. I thought it was a lame excuse when it kept getting thrown up as a supposed road-block to bringing MIL there, and I still do.
The story is that they will stay through xmas .. and return here in January at some point. I have no idea, what happens beyond that. Apparently AL is in the pipeline somewhere. How long that takes to get that door opened, is it a red herring that will never see the light of day as any viable plan .. I have no idea. Staying out of it. Does SIL give up her life while waiting for AL to open? Who knows, .. I don't.
Last I heard on that topic it is to be AL in FL .. and I made it clear to DH that I am not to be the point person as to medical appts., in any FL setting for AL. That brought about in him, some .. oh I don't know, .. frustration in that .. I don't guess that thought had even popped up on his radar in any shape/form/fashion .. and certainly he and his sister haven't talked about the logistics of it all. I mean in the end, what's most important is that the mother be allowed to make her own decisions as to her wants/wishes, she's still a person, and can still think, and it's important that she be allowed some input .. as to where that setting should be. So AL in FL it is to be. I had informed DH .. that I won't be partaking of doc appts and so forth in that setting, that will have to be met thru some other measure, not doing it. That, .. you could see .. a light bulb went off, a notion that had never dawned on him.
Do you see how their lack of planning skills, .. it then defaults to Dorker. I made it clear, .. that won't be the plan that works for me going forward. He then questioning how that will get done.
Me: "I don't know, .. that's something you and your sister need to work out. I know these places do provide transport .. and for a fee. But I also know your mom has always been staunchly opposed to help by others, and public transport by others .. so I don't know how you guys intend to work that out, but it won't be me on that front with all the rabbit holes your sister can conjure up from afar, and the magic fairy dust of procedures she thinks will restore youth and vitality .. and the lack of follow through on your mom's part .. not going to be doing it".
DH: (almost could've been written all over his face, this is something that hasn't even been considered, at all, not talk of it, .. no notion of it has even occurred to him). Has my sister called you yet? I've asked her to call you, why hasn't she called you".
Me: "It's not me she needs to call, it's you .. and you two need to figure a plan, this isn't mine to plan .. it's yours and her's ..
DH: "Well what am I gonna do, I have to work, I can't be hauling her to doc appts all over the place, H377 she needs to stop already with all the doc visits .. and just stop it".
Me: "I have talked to both of them about Hospice .. and .. how that might look, .. your mom .. just gets a glazed eye look and doesn't really engage on that topic .. she only says her famous that she always says, "this is just not me, this isn't what I'm about, running to all these doctor visits all the time, this isn't what I'm about". Your sister, . "well I don't think anything she has is imminently terminal, she wouldn't qualify"
Thanksgiving is over, and here we go hurtling into the holiday season. I'm assuming there hasn't been word of SIL, BIL and MIL coming to FL in December? And wasn't SIL going to stay here for a few months with MIL? How would that work with the basement renovation that is going on in IL?
I have my own drama here now that I started a thread about. My mother had a gallbladder infection last month, in the hospital for 17 days, one rehab for 17 days, and is now in another one to finish out rehab and (probably) become a long-term resident. She lost a LOT of abilities from the hospitalization. The past month has been very stressful for me.
The doctor at the new rehab/nursing home told me she needs someone familiar with her 2-3 hours/day, because she's had so much change happen. He said it didn't have to be me. Oh, no??? She was SO nasty to me on Sunday that I do NOT plan to be there every day. Oh, no. Her needs don't trump MY needs. Maybe HER doctor would like someone there with her every day, but MY doctor would not want that kind of stress for ME.
(So what I'm really trying to say is that you do NOT want her in an AL in Florida!!!)
Whole convoluted mess there in their saga. Short version, his parents don't like his wife ...for good reason I might add (none of us are fond of her).
I don't think the cousin really gives a rip that his folks dislike his wife, as he routinely brings her along, if visiting them (why she would continue going to a setting she knows to be unfriendly, who can say).
I don't think that was the basis as to why he didn't pick up and go to VA .
Selfish maybe more to the point.
But also probably a realization in him there's little he can really do in the end, with the few days he'd be on site.
These are two 90 yo's and yes all the problems you'd imagine with folks that age living alone ...sans their 60 something yo son who is disabled and has been their reason (or so they hang it on anyway) for staying in that home..to care for him.
Likely the cousin has had many sessions trying to encourage his parents to a different path. Not much else he can do. His presence there for a few days isn't gunna right the course of things for his two frail parents.
I do think he plans to go there towards the end of this week. So I hear anyway.
MIL has found a way now to talk to her sister daily, her sister still in the hospital. That seems to have alleviated some of the drama of SIL/MIL hunting down the cousin to spur him to action.
As for the long distance nagging of the cousin - the help his parents need is going to take far more than a week of his time. SIL and MIL don't know his situation, or how he may have tried to get them help and was refused. I doubt SIL or MIL would react kindly to cousins telling them what to do. DH is right to stay out of this.
And, that's a good point SnoopyLove .. I have no idea what the criteria are for AL and admittance, but if she is that addled, .. and no I doubt seriously there was anything in the way of libations involved in her confused state .. then .. maybe she's no longer a candidate for that setting.
I do have to kinda snicker under my breath a bit at the latest saga ongoing. DH has returned from his cousin's where he hunted over the Tgiving weekend (in SC). That same cousin . has an aged mother that lives in VA (sister to MIL).
The mom to that cousin is .. I think like 94 .. ??
She lives in her home, with her husband about the same age, both of them stumbling and bumbling about . .trying to make it thru daily life ..
The mom of this cousin (sister to MIL) is in the hospital in VA .. having suffered a heart attack, day after Tgiving.
Apparently SIL has spent the last few days blowing up DH's phone with texts as to worry on that end, in VA.
No easy answers forthcoming. The 94 yo woman is married to a guy about the same age, that is all but deaf. Communicating with him on the goings on, impossible . he can't hear. They have a son that lives with them (almost 60 I would guess, maybe over 60) .. and that son has a myriad of health problems of his own (on disability income since his 40's) .. and is really not c/giver .. it's been the other way around, them stumbling and bumbling thru life trying to help this son . and all his frailties. No info forthcoming from that son's corner, .. he's far too addled and frazzled a person to impart much of anything of substance.
MIL and SIL are as DH puts it, "Ratcheting up" in angst and anxiety at the lack of info forthcoming from that front and in DH's ear .. to get him prompted to send his cousin (one of two son's of this 94 yo woman, but this cousin lives in SC, not in VA where his folks live) .. and prompting DH to spur that cousin to action, that the cousin needs to depart SC for VA ... and go help his parents. SIL requesting from DH .. the cousin's cell #, so they can put a spur under his giddyup to get him moving. DH, for the most part choosing to ignore, the ratcheting up.
DH's feeling (and mine) .. none of their biz .. if that son wishes to depart SC and his responsibilities there . that's on him to make that decision .. not up to SIL/MIL to be prompting action . whether that son cares to do so .. is his and his family's biz . and so for the most part, DH ignoring the ratcheting up.
Thank the heavens above that I have blocked SIL's ability to text me. This is very much something that would've been in my hemisphere to address. She'd of been texting me to spur DH into action to then spur on his cousin .. and then the wrath from DH would've hit me dead-on .. "Stay out of it, none of yours or their biz". THANK GOODNESS .. she cannot text me ..
Yes, it's our belief the cousin should go to VA and see about his mom and dad . and the poor hapless brother who is really not all that much help . isn't able .. yes he should, but it's not our place to be prompting that. Thus, we will stay out of it.
If she needs more info than she's able to get, I guess she's just gonna have to wait til somebody in that family deems it appropriate to reach out to them, or not.
And who knows? It may even remain that way until the cloud comes. "MIL can no longer live alone." That has to be apparent by now to SIL, despite her most magical, fluffy-flying-unicorns type wishful thinking...
Won't be easy. Never is. But others have taken that route too. Time will tell, I guess, where it goes from here. Doesn't seem like SIL or DH are even capable of planning any kind of alternative, and SIL will continue to sacrifice herself to MIL's happiness one way or the other.
Saying that she was forced to another geography .. in the event of storms .. and there is anger .. at me .. the driver of that initiative. Fortunately DH took some of the heat on that topic, and told his sister if there is anger, they can lay that at his feet, not mine, that he too was of the same thought process and that she doesn't need to be here in this vicinity in storm season.
But that .. that .. if there was any thread left of any remnant of unity .. that one point also, .. showed me, .. more than anything else .. this is all about MIL .. as far as SIL can see .. it's all about MIL .. and wherever it all falls as to how it all is managed and done .. is inconsequential to her .. if her mom is unhappy then someone is at fault .. and we must fix it .. her mother must be happy at all times, at all costs .. even the cost of others who maybe want things done differently.
So very obvious that this will never change .. it's going to once and for all and always .. be about what makes MIL happy and whether she is happy or not is the ONLY thing that matters and at all costs.
That's not the page I am on at all, anymore. Not even an inkling of it.
It's good that remark wasn't made to me. It would've met a response of "well I suppose you needed to have figured out then how you could've been here during this time of year, in the event of a storm, so you can sit in gridlock traffic with her, to evacuate .. that's the only solution I can see that would've kept her happy in her home, as you seem to find most important here".
But you see, .. as deeply ingrained as the pattern is in it all, .. and it continues to this day .. SIL doesn't make herself available to hear the hard/cold reality that I present with .. makes it real easy to continue trying to sell sunshine and rainbows and fairy dust as to it all, when you continue to hide behind not making yourself accountable.
I struggle, yes .. with trying to wrap my brain around why it is there is a failure to understand/comprehend .. it is what it is. Even if I decided I didn't want to do this anymore, for no reason at all .. guess what .. I get to make that decision . this isn't my mom. That's the rub. So what's so hard about wrapping your brain around the fact you will now have to visit what you intend to do in the future as to managing it all and absent Dorker's presence in it all. It's not that hard.
Hard yes .. in the decisions that will have to be made, yes .. I get that. But .. necessary yes.
I try to put myself in their shoes, .. supposing perhaps it was my mom . and that I had "others" jumping to the beat of answering need. And "others" then spoke up that they were no longer going to continue doing so. I have to think I would "hear" what the "others" are saying and have to go back to the drawing board and figure what my next steps would be. I don't see, at all, .. I don't see it, .. that I'd still have any expectation it could continue to be dumped on the "others" who had been, at one point, willing participants, but now inform they no longer wish to participate.
I think about what DH said . in counsel .. I suppose he fashioned himself, .. "I know why you're so stressed, you're acting out of character for who you are, what you're about, you're a nurturer, you care .. and you are turning your back on all that, it's stressing you out".
He couldn't be missing the mark more than shooting a gun at the moon from here.
Yes, I am someone who cares, and a nurturer .. but I have that part of my character now filled with g'children I wish to nurture and enjoy and care for .. so it's not like I have thrown up a brick wall and become someone who no longer nurtures and no longer "cares". Far from it.
The fact is, .. I am, and have been on the page that reads, "this is not manageable any longer". I've been there .. that page is worn out and read and re-read 1000 x's. I'm ready to turn the page. The fact they didn't get the memo that their mom no longer manages .. and other measures need to be enacted .. is not on me. I've given my notice, .. ample time .. for them to come up with a Plan B and C and so on .. and it still hasn't happened. And with his remarks, "you are turning your back on who you are, that's why you're so stressed".
NO .. I'm stressed because you guys won't make any kind of an inkling of any plan .. and I know what that means, that means the default is me . and I've said it and said it, I'm turning the page here .. I'm done ..
But no plan in their world, means .. default is Dorker. That is why I am so frustrated. Not at all in the "you're turning your back on who you are".
And yes, .. for me, there are very clear markers in all this. Markers all along in this that I can date back to 2013 even, where I began to feel the tugs that this is becoming too much .. that she is failing at med compliance and the fall out from that, lands on me .. markers that indicated her brain . is slipping .. and I said so. But hang in there I did .. and continue sounding off quietly/discreetly .. and markers that continued all along the continuum in this. Many that I can cite. I could draw a line with markers and dates and occurrences in it all, clear watershed moments in it all, that brought me to this point, and citing different occurrences along the way.
Mostly, the big encompassing gravitating force that brought me here, is their failure to "listen/hear" what I was saying and enact other measures along the way that let me know I'm heard.
All culminating in the most recent events .. where SIL pulled the rug out from Rehab that had been sought .. post hospital discharge .. but then the straw that broke the camel's back was her blowing sunshine up my skirt again .. as she's done so many times, as to her mom's well being .. selling me all was right with the world, or trying to.
And then when she saw my disdain for that, then cautioning me that we must all remember, . that she too has her own wants for her circumstances and that has to be considered in all this.
That did it. That broke the whole thing finally.
If it wasn't broken already (it was) .. then hearing DH say there is anger coming from that corner, over the fact she was forced out of here to other geography in
But I think the primary reason for this expectation was experience. You'd always gone along with it, you appeared to be happy with it, to some extent and for some time you *were* happy with it.
I think it would be quite hard for you yourself to identify the exact point at which being on good terms with your MIL crossed over into being leaned on by your MIL before it crossed over into positively feeling that this was getting too much and something had to change. And if it would be hard for you to identify, how were DH - who it didn't suit to notice it - and SIL - who was only ever there in her Crazy Competitive CG mode - ever going to spot that you were burning out?
And in fact, you never did exactly reach that point. What happened was that something *else* far more important made it impossible for you to maintain the level of commitment. That was when the tide turned. If you hadn't been so needed by your daughter... goodness it doesn't bear thinking about. You'd probably have whacked MIL over the head and buried her in her own back yard by now.
It is very very difficult when you actually do care about someone to say to her and her children "I am not doing this any more, and this is why." It takes enormous upheaval, and there is bound to be damage in the process.
But you have done it. There are aftershocks. The difficulty of taking care of MIL in her last years remains, so there is still enormous stress around. But it is just no longer true that SIL and DH have any illusions about what you find acceptable.
I doubt if they understand quite what has happened, but not because they don't care, it's because it's very complex and very sensitive. Give it time, and go on standing your ground.
Nope nope and nope.
The response .. "I can't .. my world doesn't work that way that I can set anything in stone .. " blah blah blah
Translation. You don't want to.
But I am expected to be the default to all things MIL need.
Doesn't matter in the end, . .because .. each of us gets to choose what we do and don't do .. SIL ... staying up in IL, to dog sit while her mother chits on every available surface in her home and refuses to use Depends ..
SIL choosing what she wants to do w/her time .. as does DH.
I simply ask for the same damn thing .. even more so in fact, . not my mother.
"We're not going to be able to keep to all of it so we would rather not go through the painful process of talking about any of it."
Baloney!
But even if they do insist that it's better to deal with developments ad hoc, that *still* doesn't stop you weighing up possible future requirements, yea-ing or nay-ing them in theory, and adding them to any agenda that might arise tied to a relocation plan.
I also agree that DH has some comical ideas about priorities. The orphan boys (essential) vs spending ninety minutes with his elderly mother (uh..?) - smh. But it is a characteristic I have noticed in many people, and not nearly all of them men, that when it comes to time allocation there is a hidden factor which we politely do not talk about. And that factor is whether or not they particularly want to do something.
I always think of my nearest and dearest in this context. They had time to go ski-ing. They had time to go the the Hague for lunch. They had time to watch paint drying in my nephew's renovated apartment. They had three weeks to visit my SIL's brother in Utah. But time to visit our mother? Ooo, no, couldn't possibly, much too busy.
If you (any person) have time to read a newspaper, watch t.v., tweet, play FreeCell, go hunting, stare out of the window or examine your navel, then you have time to call your mother. If you don't call her, it's not because you don't have time. It's because you don't especially want to.
Of course, there are some mothers whom nobody would want to call and they usually have only themselves to blame. But MIL is not one of those, and neither was my mother. They just produced standard-issue imperfect sons who would rather do almost anything else than spend time with their mothers for its own sake.
I won't be carting her off to doc appts to be the point person on that issue and assimilating info given and helping to follow thru on it.
When she is sick .. assuming she is left alone to manage again .. I won't be the point person to run out there and hold her hand and encourage hydration and proper diet .. People that live alone .. generally speaking can manage for the most part .. is my opinion . and yes .. people have sicknesses illnesses that render them needing help.. I realize that, but her's happen with too much frequency and when she gets sick . .she goes completely off the rails and needs far too much care, that I'm no longer willing to be the point person to stand in for it.
I will go visit her, .. I'll bring incidentals she might need . .outside of that .. take me off any list of anything of substance as to her care.
And so . in that setting that would be in a perfect world .. there would be some acknowledgement of what was said .. and they would then go back to the drawing board to figure out how to get that met .. and there wouldn't be the Default Dorker as the option.
But there's none of that. No one talks to anyone, and it's Default Dorker .. that it gets dumped on .. and .. to stand in opposition . brings about argument in my world .. and that is what I'm trying to prevent.
I don't mind helping, . but on terms that work for me. I didn't ask either of them to attend to my mom's needs when she was ailing in any way .. never even dawned on me to do so. I expect the same.
Absent any dialogue between the two parties that need to be on this page .. and a workable/viable plan in place, ... I've seen too much of it, for too long .. I become the default .. absent any plan .. and that no longer is workable for me, and I stand firm in that.
I can't make them talk to each other, and come up with anything that resembles a "plan" .. h377 for that matter I can't get either of them to talk to me about it, .. as I'm told ,"you want to put everything in a nice neat little box on the shelf categorized and in an orderly fashion .. life don't work that way, we'll all just do the best we can".
If I had a dime for every time I was told that!
Too much, the default, .. has been me. There is no "WE". It's me.
SIL waltzes off back to IL, . to her life . with assurance, even though I scream loudly that isn't the case, .. that she'll manage, .. she'll be fine .. blah blah blah.
DH waltzes off to his churching and hunting .. and then there is .. at least in the past, expectation that I step to, when there is need. Countering that .. see the story on the dog food that needed to be picked up . but DH on his way out the door to the orphan boys who had been offered a trip camping for the weekend, .. nope . he didn't have time.
I counter with that same argument .. (In reality I am tired of arguing over it all) ... "you guys seem to be able to do what works for you in your lives, I'm asking for the same damn thing here .. ".
"Life doesn't work that way .. what am I gonna sit here twiddling my thumbs and never make a plan to do anything that I wanna do .. heaven forbid mother may need something .. no ... I go on with my life and I make my plans ..and then mother needs something .. we just have to do the best we can with it".
My argument, .. "I debate that taking the orphan boys on a camping trip for the weekend trumps your mother's needs .. h377 for that matter I debate that the dog food is a pressing damn need to begin with .. I go there once a week (this was the argument had) .. I had just been there, if she was out of dog food she could've told me, otherwise she can wait til I go back next week".
"But she didn't know ... Dorker .. she has a few cans left but not enough to wait til next week when you go . she didn't know that she was almost out".
Me: "Cognitive impairment ..one has to be able to plan for the things they will need! She had to have seen as she's retrieving dog food out of the cupboard that her supply was running low .. she knows I come on "x" day of ever week, a post-it note .. to remind herself .. to speak to me about that need?!?!?!".
The above .. just one arena of so many. The expectation that need, whatever it is . the above is just one scenario .. defaults to me.
I am trying to circumvent that and make all understand that I am out of all this, in any meaningful way .. anything of substance.
And trying to prevent this from rocking my world .. on any kind of routine basis that it was occurring too frequently. Me and DH now at odds with one another, over a need, .. yet another need, that some planning might've sufficed to answer to it .. .and absent that .. then .. your mom .. get to steppin ..
But I'm told that I want to put everything in nice tidy boxes of who does what/when/where/how .. and orderly and categorized, control issues.
I'm tired of arguing about it all .. honest to pete!
In a perfect world, there would be a sit down of sorts .. of all parties, first the two offspring and myself .. and there would be a request .. "Dorker how much are you willing to do". Dorker would answer, .. "oh I will set aside a given time per week, of my choice, that she can count on .. and I will go pick up incidentals .. or take her to lunch or go visit, a designated day of every week, outside of that, nothing .. No. I won't be sitting bedside in hospital confinement any longer, I won't be carting to doc appts .. and assimilating
I would have expectation that he help also, were the shoe on the other foot .. at least in some capacity.
Let me give a couple of examples ....
When my mom lived here locally, she had a couple of different medical procedures .. nothing real serious .. but required that she have someone with her to drive her to and fro .. and also to stay with her post-op .. at home .. some .. to make sure she's okay.
I did that. I didn't ask DH to do it, nor would I have asked him, ever. My mom .. I wanted to attend to her, and help her, not delegate it out. So let's even take the sexist/gender approach ..."well of course not Dorker, he's a guy .. guys aren't gonna be all that attentive generally speaking". I also, had zero expectation that SIL would step in, even if she was here at the time, attending to her mom in some way shape or form... that thought never even occurred to me, "gee .. let me call SIL . she can attend to this, while I go dog-sit for a while .. ". Never even any notion whatsoever, that I would pawn this off .. on some hapless other soul. My mom, I attended to it.
By the same token, let's go back a few years prior to that, when her husband died suddenly .. them out on their dream retirement of a yacht .. no one now to captain the boat back to shore (no she never learned to drive it). Fortunately, my brother was with them, .. they were off the southeast coast of FL when this tragedy occurred. My brother, loads of experience with boats . .and so he drove it back to shore.
She now had as her primary residence, and only residence, .. a big huge yacht .. and no way to even go anywhere in it, or move it .. in the event of a storm .. she now needed to vacate that yacht (fool hearty decision but no one asked MO of it all, even tho I shared it anyway). But now . .she needed somewhere to live . .and someone to help to get items off that boat ... items such as stockpiled foods (remember they were to be gone for months and months . out on the high seas). As well as some furniture items and trinkets and clothing .. and she was all alone.
My brother helped .. with some of it. I went and helped also.
When it became apparent she would be coming to my vicinity to live with a good g'friend of her's (her choice, at that time I was housing DD and family here, for a whole other saga that was ongoing in our world). She decided she would move in with a good g'friend of her's . here locally. That meant .. anything that will need to be stored, ... will need to be brought this way.
DH .. as well as my brothers .. all, . gathered what things .. from down in south FL ... and brought them here to a storage unit for my mom.
My mom ultimately ended up living here for almost a year, .. having vacated living with her good g'friend when the g'friend sold her home, and moved away. Mom now came here to live, until her yacht could be sold. That took about 1 year. When she bought the condo she would then move to, .. it was DH that went and gathered her things from storage .. and hauled them to what would now be her residence here, the condo.
He helped.
I am not opposed to helping .. I simply want the capacity to speak to that which I am willing to do and not willing to do .. and that gets deemed that I have "control" issues ..
Let's say for instance, MIL ends up in AL ... up the street here locally. I'm not opposed to setting aside time to visit with her, .. to going to pick her up for lunch, picking up some incidentals .. on a timeline that works for me, something I would speak to as to what works for me. I'm not opposed to "helping" .. but I'm at a place in it all, that absent any dialogue on it all, among the parties that need
But since then, Dorker has said no, and has stuck to her guns, and yet lo! - here she is married and the sky has not fallen.
And, what's more, DH - lol, and bless him, you can practically hear the cogs grinding - has twigged to two imperfectly grasped but breakthrough points, namely #1 Dorker doesn't like wasting her time on futile exercises; #2 Dorker has not been entirely happy with the assumptions made about what she is happy to do.
For Dorker to stop holding her breath now that she has changed the habits of her lifetime and *nothing awful has happened*, and for DH to follow this new and strange train of thought; these are both enormous changes. But they have begun them. God willing it's the start of the strongest years of their marriage together.
I think that's what is driving her stress.
There is no possibility of Dorker's further involvement in MIL's care, and that is the only point that Dorker can allow to be important to her because it is the only decision which is legitimately hers to make.
DH is not trying to make Dorker do anything, not least because at the moment there isn't anything to do. He IS failing to provide sufficient assurance that MIL will not return home, but he is failing to provide this because he has no power to enforce it.
He does not want to get into a dispute with his mother, true. But even if he were prepared to, as things stand he cannot overrule his mother. The same applies to his sister. To be able to overrule their mother they would need to undertake legal steps which neither of them is willing to do, and they are not wrong in this. There is no need for them to force their mother unwillingly into a decision which will develop of its own accord through her continuing decline.
Given the latest report on MIL's state, on Thanksgiving Day, she continues to fail and the rate of failure tends to steepen. It is unlikely she will make it back to FL; if she does, it'll be to a nursing home; if she's in a nursing home and still attending appointments outside it, that still won't be Dorker's problem. It really doesn't take that much fortitude to be "busy" on a given morning.
Dorker is wasting a great deal of energy and heartache battling a situation which does not currently exist and probably never will.
If there is a compromise involving participation, the consequences of that will land on SIL and DH.
And as to who decides what impact this has on you? You do. And you don't need to say another word about it. You have made your position very clear.
The 5th one .. I find yes, tremendous stress .. as to the fact that this is not mine to own .. I did so for a long long time, . and did it willingly .. until it got to be more than can be managed by any one lay person and said so .. continuously .. and it still, even to this day .. as I'm now counseled that I am acting contrary to who I am .. and that is where the stress in all this lies. IT'S STILL .... apparently assumed, that I am to step up and into .. all things MIL............and in whatever capacity they all deem appropriate and no dialogue behind it, at all.
And no, I don't feel any responsibility thereof any longer. If I could be heard, actually "heard" on that point in particular. I am very content within myself, that I did what I did for a long long time, until it was no longer sustainable. I am very content in that .. and no longer feel any "responsibility".
No my anger and angst lies more in the fact that this is .. to me, to my view, .. as you defined it .. one is always going to have to compromise ... there is going to have to be compromise, either on the side of havoc wreaked in it all, or in the setting that has to be part of it .. there will always have to be compromise.
Doesn't appear there is any.
Seems to me that the whims of the 89 yo with what I define as some cognitive issues are what is most paramount in all this .. and .. those whims .. sometimes are not going to be workable.
This very issue the one that is dialed down on .. there will still be need, .. even in an AL setting .. as to attending to those needs. That gets met how? Seems to me that the most important consideration here is that MIL be given the latitude to do AL in FL (FL is where she wants to be). Okay that works for me, I don't really care, and it's not in my purview to try to "control" where that set up lands.
What is in my control, is how much is required of me, as to any participation thereof, that IS in my control and so in my asserting that ... that there will still be doc visits .. who is gonna see to that?
It becomes obvious there has been zero dialogue on that .. I might as well have recited some long math computation to DH .. and lost him at the first sentence .. just completely out to lunch that is even anything to be considering. Where is his sister in this? Why hasn't that notion occurred to her, to be having some dialogue on how that will all work.
Therein lies my angst. There has been a deeply ingrained pattern in all this that has gone on far too long .. that the whims of the mother is the direction this all takes .. and any outbursts to the contrary are ignored and treated with obfuscation . and we are still here, some 3000 posts later and almost two years later.
At least .. we have moved the nano inch at this point to the fact that somewhere in the pipeline there is discussion on AL .. at least that nano inch has been tabled .. where it wasn't before.
But where is the dialogue in all this?
There isn't any?
Well, there certainly is a failure to solve the problem of What To Do About Mother.
DH and SIL are by NO means the only adult children to have failed in this, for one thing.
And for another... it is a problem, but it is *their* problem. Not yours.
If I ask "what is stopping you from allowing this to be their problem and not yours?" - well? What is? That's the end of the thread, as far as you are concerned. That's the only bit you can operate on.
There is a systemic failure on both of their parts to come to terms with and wrap their brains around and then .. own it themselves .. Dorker is out of this.
SIL up in IL .. w/her .. I can only presume .. because she certainly doesn't reach out to talk about it .. her presumption that Dorker will step up to the plate all things FL .. when that happens.
DH .. with his clueless . he can tell ya anything you want to know about the church doings and the hunting and what's legal and where, .. and what license is required and so forth .. but just absolutely clueless as to how all this works or doesn't.
And then there's me over here, . awakened as the wheels turn in the middle of the night stressing about something that is so not mine to own at all, .. and the fact that I can't get the two above parties to sit up and take notice.
And then I'm counseled that I am stressed because I'm trying to re-invent the wheel in the approach I'm taking in all this, acting contrary to my very nature and who I am .. in that I'm a nurturer .. and I'm someone who cares .. and that's who I am .. and so .. turning from that is causing me anguish and stress.
NO you idiot .. what's causing me stress is that you two seem to think somehow this is mine to own .. in your failure to make any feasible plan .. and then fight with me and tell me that I'm "controlling" .. when I try to say that this doesn't work .. and worse. THAT is where the stress resides in this, not in my turning from a situation that I have said for a LONG LONG LONG time .. is not manageable .. I'm on that page, have been, pick up the damn pace and catch up already!
Or if it does go against her nature then she's spent an awful lot of her life on something for which she has no aptitude.
And I don't think there is anything very reprehensible about MIL's children attempting to comply with their mother's long-held wishes, either. That is the goal of elder care. The ideal is to accomplish it safely for the parent and without wreaking havoc on everyone else. There never is an ideal, and there always does have to be more or less compromise either on the meeting wishes side or the havoc side, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get as close as possible.
Dorker, what IS keeping you awake? Pick one or more of
Fear of MIL's coming home unsupported
Fear of MIL's coming soon to an ALF near you
Frustration at the prolonged uncertainty, with the stress of being left in limbo
Hurt and anger resulting from your very lengthy, under-appreciated service to MIL
Inability to shake your sense of responsibility, no matter how much you might resent its clinging to you
Indignation at being blamed for any deterioration in relationships
Overwhelming urge to shout I told you so umpteen times a day
If the answer is actually All of the Above, plus a few others, what are we going to do about it? Because this won't come to an end until MIL does, and possibly will go on after that, and you will lose your mind.
I thought it was a very good thing that you talked this through with your pastor. Any plans to follow up on that?
The sad part is .. with some communal conversation that includes all parties, not just the whims of a cognitively impaired 89 yo .. and the walking in lock step to that notion .. it doesn't have to be this way.
Mature/rational/responsible adults .. "talk" about these things.
I cannot believe .. I can't wrap my brain around it at all .. that there's been no dialogue apparently .. from either his sister's corner, and definitely not coming from him .. as any notion that had occurred to him.
Okay .. so at some point in all this (God knows when or how) .. there will be an AL setting and here in FL, cuz by GOLLY she can think and that's what she wants, .. she doesn't want to be in IL .. so by GOLLY that's what we're gonna do then.
And it doesn't occur to either one of these nimrods that there needs to be some real dialogue/discussion on how that works, the cogs of the whole thing.
Gee, she's still going to need things ... and we know how damn opposed she is to public transport of any sort ...
So what that just miraculously disappears .. she now becomes someone contrary to what she's always been and caves in .. and on the public bus she goes, when they cart them off for whatever .. maybe a few groceries or incidentals they need, .. or maybe on a field trip. Suddenly she becomes someone she's never been . .and is now suddenly agreeable to that set up where until now, if we know one thing about her, .. we know that's nothing she will entertain the notion of doing, being carted anywhere by "others".
So .. it doesn't occur to either one of these dumb azzes that there needs to be some discussion on how all that's gonna look.
How is she going to get to doc appts?
We already know she is staunchly opposed to 'others' facilitating same .. what that just magically disappears. I don't think so. So who is gonna do it? It's not gonna be me .. I'm done with the whole magic fairy dust and whirly gigs that SIL conjures up as to her mom's well being .. and from afar. So who is gonna do it?
Magic fairies? Who?
As I told DH and yes tongue in cheek on my part (which isn't nice, but I'm done being nice) .. "I don't know DH .. maybe the Lord will provide a path that you can now attend to that feature where you haven't been able to before".
YES, said tongue in cheek.
The fact that neither of the two dumb azzes have had that as even any notion of some discussion that needs to take place .. it just astounds me.
So .. okay .. let's assume there is some magical pill that is going to change the course of her thinking (MIL's) and find her no longer so staunchly opposed to "others" providing transport, and so on that little mini van she hops .. and off to the doc. There, .. she will be charged with ascertaining what's said to her, absent the presence of anyone to sort thru and ask any probing questions and assimilate the information given to her, .. and process it and act upon it.
She is NOT capable of that.
But these two dumb azzes fail to have any real dialogue behind that.
AL .. it will be (at some point) and BY GOLLY because she can still think .. and because "it's important that we consider her wants in all this too, she is still a person and she has her own wants and wishes for her circumstances" .. oooookay then! She doesn't want to be in IL, she wants to be in FL. Ooookay then!
And the logistics of how all that is going to work in the end? Somebody? Anybody? ... (crickets chirping, you hear crickets at the deafening silence behind that). Nobody talking about the real, on-the-ground, logistics of it all.
But by GOLLY she'll be in FL, where she wants to be, and after all she can still think . and it's important that her wants/wishes also be a part of all this.
Ooookay then!
It appears to me that there is a systemic failure on both their parts to come to any realization