I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
A few months ago a "friend" was going through a hard time. His SIL was dxed with leukemia. It's awful and sad--and I saw the Go Fund Me on FB and donated to it and sent my "friend" a PM to tell him he was in my prayers...and he literally blew up at me!!! Angry at ME, b/c he KNOWS that I know he's left our faith,and felt I had NO BUSINESS praying for his SIL. Seriously. He then went on to berate me for still belonging to my church, on and on, said some truly hideous things (I know he was upset and angry that his son was so sick---but...) and he wouldn't stop with the religion bashing, so I wrote him a simple note saying I was sorry he was so angry, but I DID donate to the fund, I will do so on a regular as needed basis, and I hoped he could find some calm. Then deleted him from contacting me.
Sad as it was, his situation, I wasn't going to let a toxic person into my head.
I've heard through mutual friends that he feels bad about what he said to me, but he knows where I live and if he truly did/does feel bad, he knows how to contact me.
Dorker--
Sounds like SIL and DH are having it out..and you may never talk to her about anything of importance. Texts are NOT the way to go when you are trying to make a serious move in your life. I find them terse and often take them the wrong way. Esp when my kids text me all in emojis and I have NO IDEA what they're trying to tell me.
However, having said that, .. if I'd dig out my paperwork that I wrote for myself, a couple of months back when picking up differing clinics .. I'd of seen .. this is not on my schedule.
DUH!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a two sets of flats .. exactly alike . one set is black, one set is navy blue. I have made the mistake of wearing one navy blue and one black to church .. that one I have done!
I had two different pairs of white sneakers, one pair for home and the other for my CNA job. I always had to check to make sure my sneakers matched because I had a yellow Labrador who would always bring me a shoe when I was out of sight for a few minutes.
I did once go to work wearing one
black pump and one blue one. Probably due to having to go in before dawn during the Christmas season. That - and if I was fortunate enough to find a pair of comfortable heels - heels being required dress code for lady management back in the day - I’d buy them in multiple colors.
I actually didn’t know I had done it until someone pointed it out to me several hours into my day.
Has anyone else ever gone to work and then learned they aren't scheduled to work that day, or is it just me? Maybe I have finally lost it.
Yes there was dialogue on that point also .. my having pointed out to DH .. that this is no great loss of any real friendship ... that .. it's been one where I am the marionette to her whims. That I've tried .. have long since given up .. to get her out to let's go get a manicure .. let's go to a movie, let's go to lunch .. and she's always having to pressure wash something or watch grass grow .. translation .. not a priority .. thus .. there is no real friendship there . hasn't been for a long long while .. it evolved from what used to be a friendship, very much so into what it is that's the latest need/want on the MIL front .. outside of that . not any socializing at all.
DH agrees .. that his sister is wrong, to have not been more intentional in fostering a friendship.
Very true .... it became a marionette situation. That point too covered in conversation with DH.
If I understand correctly, Dorker & SIL had a friendly relationship years ago.
For the past XX years, SIL turned the tide - and only had time for Dorker in the context of Dorker being SIL’s marionette.
Dorker was compliant for a while. Now she is not.
Apparently DH thinks a “good” relationship is one that does not cause him any static.
At one time, it had been the "plan" if there ever was one. That SIL .. once retired, would want to get out of snow country anyway .. blowing off driveways and sidewalks in the winter .. and she'd sell her home and come this way to buy a home and live in FL .. in her retirement years.
Somewhere that all changed. I don't know if maybe it was born out of the fact she could see that her husband's needs .. maybe his medical team .. more important they stay there, .. maybe her daughter moving back to her area, .. maybe any number of reasons .. maybe the fact that she could see how mean her mom is, to her husband .. who knows .. but somehow that, as any "plan" derailed .. long ago.
I'm supposing if that kinda conversation went on between she and anyone .. it would've gone about like this: "But what about your aging parents .. what's the plan?".
Her answer: "Dorker will do it".
Only .. nobody ever asked Dorker if she was willing to wipe doggie butts and any number of stupid fools' errands.
I reminded DH last night, .. him talking of his having hit back at his sister, "hey yea you've got mom up there, all of it on you ... you're retired, I am not .. I cannot do what you're doing .. I have to work for a damn living here .. "
At that, my interjection: "And there was a time she was working and it landed in my corner here .. I took care of it for her".
There is no rule book anywhere that states, "the care of the elderly parent falls upon he/she who is retired".
She is choosing that path .. and I suppose .. projecting anger at me, because my stepping down from any of this .. then makes it necessary that she decide how much of her retirement she wants to devote to this endeavor.
That anger needs to be placed in a more positive direction, IMO .. get angry .. but channel it to where it needs to be, making necessary changes.
Don't wanna make the changes? Then . .. walk thru your own anger in it all.
Pretty simple.
As I told DH and clarified to him last night: "You and your sister .. your motivation in all of this is your mom's happiness .. I have no problem with that .. as it should be, she's your mom .. and fine with it .. as long as it doesn't fall in my lap buy default .. and it did for far too long . I am simply stepping out of that realm, it's not my motivation in my life .. to make sure your mom's happy and nor should it be .. you guys want her to be happy ... have at it .. but figure it out between the two of you how that's going to work".
His response to that: "Oh there's gonna be unhappiness .. there are decisions that are tough that are going to have to be approached .. AL .. she's not gonna be happy about it, . it's coming .. "
Me: "Whatever works for you guys .. if she's happy giving her life over to this endeavor because it pleases your mom .. works for me, .. I don't have a problem in the world with that .. if she's not .. then she and you need to figure what to do about it, not me .. I don't need to be in ANY OF THIS .. that's all there is to it".
As I related to him also .. his mom is mean .. and it's one thing to put up with it .. as her offspring, quite different when you are not related. Her threatening to throw a glass of water in my face .. her having said I was mean/rude to her when she sheltered here .. her anger and your sister's anger .. at them having to uproot to IL during time of storm here .. and not be here .. how about they both take a moment to think of others .. for just a slither of a moment .. think of someone besides yourself both you and sister ..
He agrees. "Mom is child like almost .. she is about half crazy .. but she aint that crazy that she should be allowed to act that way".
He hadn't known about her threatening to throw a glass of water at my face.
SIL is living the reality she created for herself in her inertia. So be it.
She has been told by him, . that I am out of all this. And this angers her.
Accdg to him . this breaks his heart to see that what was once .. a friendly relationship (I would argue that it was a relationship of servitude to her needs regarding her mother, in these last few years, not a friendship) .. as he puts it, "you are both throwing away a good relaltionship".
My response to that: "DH I'm not a robot .. I'm going to have opinions and wishes and wants myself, as to my own life and how that looks .. and I cannot any longer, . be at the whim of your sister and her whimsical thinking as to all the whirligigs to restore youth to your mom .. I can't do it, .. I am under a doctor's care presently for anxiety issues and on medication . and this situation routinely wakes me at God awful hours .. I can't do it anymore".
He understands.
(for now)
Further: "DH I have reached out countless times to get her to talk to me .. and she simply doesn't want to hear the reality 101 that I present with .. I can't counter that .. you have persuaded her to call me, .. she still doesn't do it .. in the end, .. it's not important she talk to me .. it's more important the two of you are talking .. I don't even need to be in it at all".
He agrees.
Apparently there has been a bumping of noggins between the two that I wasn't aware of .. her lamenting that all this responsibility is on her shoulders .. her husband and his maladies and her mom .. and it's all on her.
I guess ... the response she got from DH on that .. something akin to .. "hey I'm here working .. I am not retired, . I work a physically grueling job . and .. mom has choices .. none she likes .. but she has choices and you do too".
Said he basically told her (this all via text, of course) .. "so you've got your cross to bear, so do I .. let's move on".
Said he didn't hear from her for a while .. and when he did she came back with a better attitude.
But I do guess, the bottom line . she is angry with me.
Well .. my opinion, that's unfortunate .. but .. she can build a bridge and get on over it, or not. I've been plenty angry with her too .. for a long time .. and her anger/emotions are no less important than my own.
I reminded DH .. that I did talk to his mom .. to tell her Happy Thanksgiving when he was on the phone with her .. I did hijack the phone from him to express my concerns at her sister in the hospital with a heart attack and talked to her at length .. so it's not that I am shunning his family. I have reached out countless times in the last few years to get SIL on the page .. and it always falls nil. So be it.
Done trying and told him so.
So she's angry .. I can only surmize that is based in the fact, .. she will now have to decide how much of her own life she is willing to devote to her "mom's happiness", which has always been her approach .. as I'd balk at all it's taking .. to do it. So now . she can figure out .. as to her own life .. what she wants to give up to this endeavor . .or not.
And DH .. he can play a part or not.
The one good take away from all this . the two of them are having to talk to one another (text) .. not me.
He says that his sister has BLOWN up his phone .. (I have no doubt . that's what she's famous for). But that he generally .. ignores .. and/or responds briefly and that's that.
I guess he's better at that than I was ever able to achieve .. and as I told him, . ."that ole blood is thicker than water thing there .. you can ignore her . you can get angry with her .. and so forth . you're her brother .. there's a difference there .. I was arm twisted to the ends of the earth by her, .. and I can't do it anymore!".
He gets it.
So good, the two of them are talking ..
I remember before we had kids, coming back from Boston on a train; DH was about to get a very lucrative offer in that area. Said to him "Okay, so your parents live outside of Philly; when they are ill, what is the plan?" We talked long and hard about how far we were willing to live from our parents. And ultimately remained in NYC. an hour or so away from my folks and two hours from his. Better, ultimately, than 5 and 7 hours.
It has always been our assumption (1st husband, second husband, all of us) that the responsibility is upon the individual to care for themselves or to provide the means to do so. NO ONE is thinking the way my grandparents (who existed without SS or Medicare) that their children would be responsible for their care.
In my mind, for Dorker's DH and SIL to assume that Dorker needs to be the "go to" is the ultimate absurdity. If you are indigent, there is Medicaid. If you have funds, there is AL.
DH and SIL seem to be living in the 1950s
will end the marriage either.
But, facing the next twenty years of having had “chit-canned” the in-laws thrown up in ones face every times there’s a disagreement... That doesn’t seem much like a pleasant prospect either. At least not to me.
So, any relationship with SIL from here on out will be solely what you and her decide it to be. Not sure what relationship you envision with SIL after "the cloud" takes MIL out of the picture, but perhaps that (and only that) is what should steer the course now. Perhaps next time you two communicate, lovingly lead the conversation that way - emphasizing personal friendship between the two of you. (If that is something you both even want.) But all further MIL communications are to be between the sibs. Period.
I doubt Dorker setting those boundaries will be the end of their 40 year marriage. DH will just have to learn to sit with his anger at him not getting his way about having Dorker step in, and either man up and help SIL get his mom the help she NEEDS, or tell SIL and MIL no, that he really doesn't want to be a part of his mom's caregiving (the truth!).
I think Dorker should just go about her business and let SIL and DH do what they see fit as far as the MIL situation. Maybe call MIL every so often just to chat and let her know she is thinking of her. And if SIL wants to talk one of those times or set up a time to call and talk to Dorker, she can. But really, she needs to be talking to DH.
I can't control how others perceive my actions. The only thing I can control is me. I know the walk I've walked. No one else does.
Should DH intent be to end our marriage over this mess, he'd still be in the same fix ... no help from Dorker.
FWIW in case anyone is waiting with breath held. There has been no phone call. Not surprised.
Been here all day with 18 month old grandson so not like I was out and missed a call.
I agree with Kimber. What's the purpose of calling me anyway. Their mom's care ... that's their decision to discuss, not mine.
And yes ... that fateful mistaken text spelled out my grievances pretty clearly .. so there should be no question.
And I also agree with Kimber's notion that texting is a means to hide and not have to hear what she doesn't wanna hear. So be it.
Even my "bad" husband would have been embarrassed to ask that of me.
As a young child my mother made choices that put me into the role of Marriage Counselor.
The role stuck until I was in my late 30’s until I finally got the nerve to tell her I didn’t want to hear it anymore - this was my father she was talking about - and in spite of what I believe were a part of her intentions, I had a great relationship with him and adored him until the day he died. Beyond then - still, actually.
Anyhoo - I guess that explains the color of my shading in this drama. Worrying about Dorkers marriage and the remaining aftermath once MIL floats off on her cloud.
You are a wise one Grasshopper, err... Barb!
Its not SILs thoughts, feelings, reactions,etc. that I am thinking of - it’s dh.
Not that I’d really give a flying eff of what dh is thinking or feeling were he my husband and this my situation.
However, Dorker has expressed not wanting ugly scenes with dh and him all up in her face, bullying her.
Im afraid that his reaction - should Dorker not answer the phone - and at a minimum say “this is a bad time. Can you call me back at X on X-day?” Dh is gonna revert to “For Christ’s sake, Dorker! She called you like you said you wanted - but it just didn’t suit you, did it?”
So, just thinking of keeping the home court civil - that’s all.
Those of us who have experienced narcissistic family members attempting to foist "jobs" upon the rest of us see this situation through that lens.
Those of us who have experienced a situation in which adult children are terrified of their elderly parent's disapproval are seeing that aspect.
Those of us who see Dorker as simply the brightest and most astute of the batch here are seeing SIL and DH as just a bit dim.
We all have our own take on this. I'm hoping that Dorker can remain true to her own compassionate nature and be an instrument to get MIL what she NEEDS, not what she wants. Even if it means knocking some heads together.
It would be giving up control, being the needy one, having to hear what you have to say, having to hear what she doesn't want to hear... reaching out to You...She doesn't want any of that. She wants the upper hand.
You are doing the right things Dorker. Enough is enough.
Sometimes it is just too late. I think SIL might have an inkling of that.
I never said Dorker should sit by the phone in anticipation of SIL call.
What is the purpose of the conversation? To understand why you are angry? Didn't she get that from your mis-directed text? To discuss MIL care? But you are out of that totally and she needs to work with DH. To start to open communication and heal a relationship that is decades long? Maybe then.
DH's comment "I can't understand why you don't help if you love someone" - it is rather bold when you were yelling for years - "I need help!!!" and no one paid attention.
Geez. Hopefully - you out of it will force DH and SIL to decide what to do about MIL long term. SIL will bring her home to FL, take care of her (as she did last year) and then what????? DH and SIL need to address the then what. Where will she live and how will all of the myriad crazy list of needs be met. Without Dorker.
Let us know how the big discussion goes. This thread is better than daytime drama.
What's so asinine about her checking with DH? - It's not like she was wrong, or being paranoid.
Dorker for heaven's sake give the woman a call and clear the air.
Wouldn't a simple phone call have provided that answer?
Look I'm not opposed to texting ... I prefer it actually. Works great... if I'm busy or your busy ... answer when you can ... rather than stopping to go answer a phone and explain you're busy and can't talk at the moment.
What I am opposed to is texting as any means of communication when
A) this stuff is really kinda crucial
B) it's clear that medium is not conducive to bring about the clarity needed on whatever the subject is
So ... yea blocked her.
DH knows this (to the degree he "hears" ... actually "hears/owns" What is said to him. So impart that to her "yea sis .. she blocked ya ... call her". Simple really.
Or SIL, simple .. pick up the phone "hey Dorker ... every time I text you I get no response".
Honestly.... these people are not this dense ... they are smart people ... they just wanna keep playing duck and dodge. Dorker is not playing anymore.
SIL has had oh . what .. like 3 years or so .. to get on the horn and talk to me . and hear me .. until it all culminated into what it is today.
My life, my priority for today . is going to be my grandson .. and if he has been retrieved by his mom . at the hour that SIL calls, I will talk to her .. for certain . not a problem doing so.
She's had a month even since this latest blew sky high, a bit more than a month.
I wasn't busy watching g'kids each and every of those days . maybe she was busy with what she was doing on her end .. but not to the degree she hasn't been able to come up for air in that time frame.
I'm just saying . it may not be possible even today . depending upon what time she calls and what my priorities are at that moment ..
If she calls here and I am mired in child care, yes I will answer the phone and explain that I can't talk right now, and ask her what other time might work for her and go from there.
I am working Tuesday and Wednesday ..
And I know it would be harder for her to get out and away from her mom's elbow in the evening hours .. maybe selling a therapuetic lie to her mom that she has a doc appt, or whatever, to be able to get outta the house to go have a phone conversation her mom isn't privy to .. evening hours might preclude that.
So I am working Tuesday and Wednesday and beyond that on my radar .. is some prep for a luncheon for my dad and his wife next weekend.
So yes, it might be that we have to decide on an appt time that is mutually workable and that's fine too.
I don't see it there will be any healing to transpire. Short of my stepping to the plate again to be all things to scene MIL . there will be no healing. SIL .. and who she is .. and her goals . and her angle that she sees things .. she is going to not understand my approach one iota. .. that I would turn and refuse to prop all this up in any shape or form. So there will not be any healing that takes place.
Clarity maybe .. but not healing.
Look I am very very clear, that this is her mom . .. and she .. as the daughter in all this .. can have any agenda she wants .. even if that's putting her mom on a rocket to Mars. It's her mom .. she gets to call the shots . she and DH. I am very clear on that.
What SHE is not going to be clear on and struggle to understand and wrap her brain around is the same as DH struggles with .. "how do you claim to love someone and yet turn from helping them".
My argument to that, you can still love someone in the confines of an AL setting and be a part of their world .. and care about them .. having them have to take the step to go into an AL setting .. doesn't mean you don't love them .. it simply . to me . means they need that much support . and even in that setting will need some support .. how that support look and the logistics of it all . is going to look a lot different going forward.
Where there is misfire on DH's part as well as his sister: "You don't turn from someone who is aged and needs help .. not and call yourself loving them and caring about them".
No . you don't . so don't do it then SIL and DH ..
I will still be a part of MIL's life if she wants and enjoy her, but I won't be a part of propping up her needs .. that is on you guys .. you two figure that out.
SIL would be all about, "But you know how she is .. she's not gonna be happy being carted around to docs by the mini van".
My response to that: "I am no longer charged with your mother's happiness . if that's your agenda .. swell .. have at it .. I'm all for it .. as long as it's you doing so . you or her son .. that's not on me, to assure her happiness, that's not where I am in my life .. and whether you want to acknowledge that or not, my life does matter, to me.
So have at it, keep her happy however you see fit.
Misfires abound, always.
When we are angry and hurt and past injuries have not been resolved and other frustrations are ongoing, we are not always our normal, 100% reasonable selves, eh.
Dorker, you have your *own* relationship with SIL. In addition, you have your "deputising for DH" relationship with SIL. It is important to separate these out, because you want to heal the former and terminate the latter.
"Your little hands were made to take
The better things and leave the worse ones..."
Why not pick a time to call her that suits you, and text her that you'll do it then?
Now you’re saying you’ll be too busy to talk to her.
Just sayin’...
I'm not real motivated to spend a lot of time sorting thru what should and shouldn't be said. She's had a damn month (longer) to reach out . and hasn't seen fit to do so.
I figure she must be drawing nearer to bringing MIL back here and knowing her, . the hope that she can persuade dorker to the front lines .. so she can depart.
Not gonna happen.
I have to think she has an underlying motivation to reach out . after a damn month .. and then the lame text to her brother .. inquisition on why she texts him and gets answers .. usually .. and me ... none.
PICK UP THE DAMN PHONE YOU IDIOT!
That's what any of us do, if we need answers to a question .. and we can't reach the person by text. Hey here's a concept .. some people actually resort to a phone call as their FIRST option. Dang, . whodathunk it.
I'm going to enjoy spending the day with my g'son .. and beyond that, .. I don't much care.