I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
The sister to MIL . they traded off 3 month stints of caring for their dad (SIL's g'dad). The g'ma already gone .. dx'd in the years prior with esophageal cancer and gone within a month.
But SIL was living and working and raising a family in IL. She wasn't here, on the scene .. to see it.
Her husband's parents . both of them .. died suddenly from heart attacks . separate times .. the dad first .. and the mom .. in the years after.
So there was no .. "what to do with mom or dad" .. to watch in that scenario.
SIL's g'dad .. he only lived maybe a year or so with this 3 month stint in place of switching from MIL's home to the MIL's sister's home. So that didn't go on a long long time.
I can say that I'm aware .. SIL only has one good friend. It's hard for them . most people that she might befriend . have in their husband .. a fully functional . maybe he golfs, or goes fishing or whatever .. B .. not so. B is SIL's charge, and B doesn't move left of center without SIL there to direct it. Hard for her to have couple friends .. as in the guy of any other marital union they may be friends with . would find in B .. not someone they would particularly enjoy and socialize with.
She has one good friend that she maybe occasionally takes the time to go to lunch or go to a movie.
That friend has a mom who is suffering from Alzheimers and has been the walk of being placed .. and the friend has also had to move her mom once . having found the site originally placed, not suitable.
I don't know a thing about the finances in that situation . as to whether the friend's mom had money to pay for all this . or whatever.
But that .. at least to my knowledge has been her only experience .. as to watching how others wade these waters.
She has seen also, her cousin in TN . who brought her father there to live with she and her husband in TN .. exiting him from here in FL, to do so. That . lasted all of about a year. The father to the cousin . (SIL's uncle) has now agreed to and been placed in AL . in TN .. and no longer residing with the cousin. He has the financial means to pay for his own stay there.
As to myself and what I've seen. I only have my grandma .. and she lived to be 90 years old . and up until the day she died .. she was getting on that senior bus that would come around daily . and go to the senior center, where there was a meal (really the only meal she partook of daily) .. and crafts and such. Then she suddenly dropped dead. No one had to figure out "what do we do with granny".
My other g'ma on my dad's side .. she ultimately was placed .. by an uncle of mine . into a home .. when she got old and frail . and I'm sure in her case it was Medicaid .. she didn't have the means to pay for all that, spent her entire adult life and raising her kids (my dad and his siblings) . in the projects .. HUD housing.
I only have the tales of that which I hear from my friends .. and how they navigated it all. And I have a few .. and the path forward vaired .. from the struggle of "what am I gonna do mom is getting too old" .. and so . in one case, the mom was dx'd with pancreatic cancer and gone within a month . in a hospice setting. Another one . the mom was placed in an income based AL .. and died there. And another case, .. the mom was placed .. when she was old . into a nursing home ..
The exposure I have had .. to the people who have walked this walk ... they all say that MIL needs to be in a home somewhere and that DH and his sister both need to face it. Preaching to the choir.
Maybe SIL can't step out of that box of shoving whatever need . over to the box of "that will answer it" . as she did in her career for forever. Maybe she's stuck there.
Don't really know . and there are resources to help one work thru these things . counseling . support groups . suggested to her in the past . and as all other suggestions go. No dice. So be it.
I will have all 3 kids next weekend .. and that room is in use . the YELLOW bedroom.
So . trying to work thru some of the logistics there .. I can throw YD on the sofa for the night and you two can have her bed .. but it's a double bed . you two gonna be okay with that ..???
Mom is opting to make other arrangements for her visit here, or attempt to do so.
So needed to get on the horn and not ignore my mom and talk about that, and I didn't go with DH.
When he returned I asked how is his sister. He said, "she just can't turn her head fast .. I mean . she's doing *okay* but she can't make any fast movements .. otherwise her head spins .. I think she has an appt somewhere on Monday .. to get seen".
ME: Well what are they doing over there, I mean SIL is the one that runs from pillar to post to keep the ship afloat .. what are they doing to address all the need, the cooking, the errands . what are they doing?".
Him: "I don't know".
As he walked off and that was the end of any dialogue on that topic.
He has gone this morning to some men's breakfast at church and prayer meeting of some sort. I don't guess the "need" on that front necessitated that he skip the church'ing .. so be it. I don't argue that point any longer. There'd of been a time that I'd of told him he has rocks for brains .. that he needs to go out there and by damn, step in and do what it is that SIL needs. I no longer do that.
I had thought .. maybe I'd offer . call there .. bring a take out over there, .. or .. whatever it is we have for dinner tonight . at least that's one meal she won't have to cook.
But I swear to goodness, I have to tread so lightly .. I don't want ANY MISREAD in all this .. that in my having been kind enough to show up there with a box of fried chicken or a pizza .. that somehow now Dorker has come to her senses and is gonna be right there on the spot for all ..
I have to approach anything with so much trepidation . that I almost don't know what to do at all.
I don't think ignoring entirely .. that she is ill . is the approach .. but I also hesitate to step in with something in the way of a meal .. in that it might get read . that Dorker is now back.
Yes it has been an interesting point CTTN made. SIL is someone who spent her career .. "well we'll call in a speech specialist" . to find out why this kid can't talk . "yes, we'll call in a translator to help this kid who struggles with speaking english", .. "yes we'll call in family counseling to find out why this kid has anger issues" .. on and on it goes. Dropping each and every need she encountered into the box of some agency that would then pick it up and go with it.
For many many years .. she was able to just .. drop whatever the next need was, into the Dorker box . and it got shifted to Dorker who dutifully addressed it.
I guess . her having spent her entire life doing that .. she is having trouble changing gears. My only assessment.
And as to her life experience of having watched what others did as to aging parents . her mom .. in the dad's waning years (what would have been SIL's g'pa) . took him in .. in 3 month stints .. and shared with a sister who also did same.
As to YD's take. She worked (no longer there) in an AL (incidentally it was an income based setting). Her opinion MIL needs to be in a "home" somewhere ....not living alone.
However her opinion is that of, the site where she worked, seemed folks
.. at least those not lost in misery or other self imposed exile (and some were) ...they were far more vested in engaging .... engaging in the meal times offered 3 x's daily ...but one has to get there themselves ...nobody is going to ring you as a reminder. Have to have some ability and awareness at time management to see to the above.
Folks there engaged .... in the chair exercise classes, the arts and crafts, the card games, the dances ...
Her feeling has been MIL wouldn't be interested (my take ...cuz it ain't all about her holding court).
One has to be vested in ownership of knowing the bus schedule .. if they'd like to be carted, the couple of times a week the bus goes ... to the mall, the grocery, etc.
MIL doesn't possess the executive level function (IMO) to participate in any of the above sans someone prodding her along by showing up to remind her and keep her on task ... goal in mind *remember ... keep getting ready granny .. the bus leaves in 1 hour .. you keep sitting there talking to me and showing me the cute puppies in the magazine. Put the magazine down and go get ready ..."
Only to then redirect time and again when she then malingers to tell you the story of when she got lost on the uncle's farm.
Ya point to your watch ... reminding again ... and she then picks up the bill from the doc office and launches into the diatribe of who she's called and what's been said as to resolving that.
Ya point to your watch again in reminder ... she then makes headway only to now show you the purse she bought "x" years ago at so and so and the story behind that ..tap tap on the watch again ... tick tock tick tock
Even YD (though she doesn't use the terminoligy) .... Executive Level Functioning.... even she talks that MIL would struggle with being able to engage ...
MO
She doesn't wanna. It's then all about all of em there ...not her. She's just another in the herd of *blue hairs*. That would never suit her.
But I don't think her not engaging would be intentional. It's simply she isn't capable ...nor is there any "want" to assimilate ... zero interest.
YD found ... all in all ... residents there.. more functional than is granny. Sans the curmudgeons who just wanna be cranky and not social and cantankerous and there were those also, she says.
"I can tell you that when it comes to needy, aging parents, one's professional training doesn't mean SQUAT. What matters in the end is how much you value your own autonomy, how much you understand about what your parent wants and how much you are willing to give up to keep your parent happy".
On a Completely "other side of the coin", MY "training" also came from viewing how our parents and their siblings watched out for their parents, and in their example my Auntie had my Grandparents living with them with her siblings help (a different era and culture so it worked), my Mom and Dad had his Mom living with us (her a Narc Princess = disasterous!), myself and my siblings looked after our folks in varying living situations in 2 of my sisters homes (a situation shared by the 6 of us, plus Exceptional parents, so difficult but still doable), and my husband and I took care of his parents and had his Dad living with us for his final 13 years (him a Narc, so disasterous!), so I think the moral of the story is, one should never rely solely on the assistance of our children in old age as it Rarely works out to everyones mutual benefit as Resentment and Burnout ultimately builds up by the Caregiver.
I recall that you, Dorker- have mentioned in the past that you use to attend IEP meetings for OD.
For those who don’t know - that’s an Individual Education Plan. I don’t know about private schools but in public schools there is a law that requires The Team to meet yearly with the parent or guardian of a student identified as having (a) special need(s). The team can vary depending on the “need” but it always includes the teacher, a parent and a social worker. Beyond that speech therapist, physical therapist- whatever.
During these meeting goals are developed along with an action plan as to how. Usually, the goals apply to the school setting but they also can reach into the home environment. Typically, at least for me - reinforcing the action plan at home proved to be...ummm - impractical. No, I don’t have twenty minutes to spend every time Rainman needs to put on his coat - to go through eight steps to make it happen. As a working, single mom, it was “Come here so we can put on your coat”. Zip - it was done.
Social workers tended to be the worst. At least for me.
But exactly as CNNT describes - it was - flinging out a task/objective - without regarding how practical it was.
Just a given directive from afar. Yep. This may explain a lot.
SIL out t MIL's.....suffering from Vertigo.
She's gotten this before and I don't know .. gone somewhere .... some kind of treatment that pops her neck or something ... long and short of it .... it realignes some crystal in one's ear .....???.... I don't know.
Thats been the solution in the past ... and resolved it. But that's in IL not here.
I guess one could find such here. Don't really know.
DH was heading that way a bit ago to see if any help is needed.
Aasked if I wanted to go and I declined. Not because I don't care or want to avoid them. But I'm tired. Been up since 4 AM to work today all day.
ANd needed to get on the phone with my mom to try to work out an issue ongoing that I had no time to address today being at work.
So I didn't go with DH.
I can only imagine with the captain of their ship under the weather ... it's probably listing sideways over there at this point.
It's been a long road and the end of it isn't even in sight.
But...SIL's dilemma with a compromised husband from a family of excessive drinkers and the complications in shipping him off to them to oversee and her worries thereof.
Not mine to own
The fact she has had selective hearing the last several years as pertains her mom's weakening state.
Not mine to own
The fact DH opts (always) to church, hunt, look after orphaned kids .. rather than attend to a weakening frail mom.
Not mine to own
I don't know what to say about either of the two.
DH... I helped create that monster problem. For years .. I took it on ... maybe a crystal ball would've showed me that DH will, several years henceforth and much more frail ..his mom, refuse to see it/act upon it. Absent his own "owning" it as it all deteriorates. I created that monster.
His sister .. I don't know what to say about her other than she enjoyed years and years of help from me and maybe deluded herself in thinking I'd always remain in the trenches ..no matter how bad it gets.
Wish I could say she's had to come to an awakening on that. But with her, the River of Denial, runs deep. So I don't know that she "gets it" even to this day.
I can tell you that when it comes to needy, aging parents, one's professional training doesn't mean SQUAT. What matters in the end is how much you value your own autonomy, how much you understand about what your parent wants and how much you are willing to give up to keep your parent happy.
My "training" for looking out for my mother's interests (and it was the training that my brothers had as well) was watching mom and dad care for their relatives. They learned the hard way what NOT to do. We watched.
What we learned was that taking an elderly relative into our homes was a recipe for disaster and resentment. My parents worked hard and had the resources to pay for their own care; with careful planning, both on their parts and on the part of my brother (POA) and SIL (Yay! An MBA in the family!), mom was able to fund her own care at the end. 4 1/2 years of private pay at a NH? That was a gift!
My parents were always happy to point to neighbors and relatives who were making poor choices about finances (gambling, credit debt, keeping up with the Jones) so that we grew up frugal and saving for retirement from the minute we got jobs.
Please, everyone remember that Dorker's MIL financed a facelift with credit card debt. Took early SS. Reverse Mortgage. Didn't (and doesn't) think about the financial implications of her bad choices.
HER poor choices do NOT equate to Dorker's obligation to step and fetch. SIL? She's got a serious problem, not one that Dorker needs to solve.
DH needs to step in a tell his mom the real deal, IMHO.
Yes a public school social worker and resourcing agencies for various needs as to school kids. Be that language barriers, special needs kids, possible asbuse/neglect....varied needs.
Her task, engage appropriate help, move on to next problem.
Only, this is not a social service setting ...
Maybe she is not adept at realizing ... some problems can't just be channeled on.
Zeroed in on something with that overview.
She is trying and trying to do that with Dorker (and successfully did it for years). She wants to issue directives (do her part and then refer on to someone else -- her brother and Dorker) and would like to be done with it after that, as she was probably able to do in her job. But that doesn't work here -- Dorker and her H are not yet another agency tasked with something that can then be referred on to someone else. This is SIL's mother. They aren't steppin' to the beat -- Dorker isn't steppin' and fetchin' any longer. And her brother? He's very busy with his non-gov't job in which he doesn't get all the time off that SIL used to get when she was working. And when he's not working, his priorities are churchin' and huntin' and missionary lunchin' and orphan campin'.
SIL has to stop her career-long directing of others and accept that SHE chose to be the caregiver. Mama can't be allowed to be unhappy, so SIL has set HERself up to be a puppet on a string.
Mama Queen Narcissa just isn't so special that a facility is beneath her. And if it's a Medicaid bed? So what? Mama wasted and squandered money in her lifetime, so that's what she gets.
"SIL is free to make her own choices as to the approach for her mom's care. She's not free from the ramifications of those choices".
BIngo!
'Cos I'll tell you what: if SIL is not prepared to keep her mother informed of the realities, then that knocks MIL's autonomy right on the head. She cannot have it both ways.
This .. it was thought by SIL would bring about sadness to MIL since she already feels sad and troubled in that she feels like she's such a burden.
For MIL to be aware there are logistics impeeding their presence to the sisters demise... and that's at MIL's feet and her needs ... would cause her to be sad.
Dnot think the goal in withholding the sisters demise was at all based in some notion MIL would somehow become grief stricken... I doubt MIL has ever even met the sister to B
You were trying to plan for the inevitable progressive decline of an elderly, frail person.
It's what smart folks do.
My approach for me and my own well being ... the less said in dialogue between she and I (she doesn't hear anything said from me any way), less said, the better.
I don't ask questions ... I don't make suggestions.
Its interesting now with a bit more retrospect. Shows just how absolutely enmeshed and overtaken SIL is with the ongoing saga, the fact that it would've even dawned on her at all to reach out in my direction.
She is aware of the malady ongoing in my dad's world. True .. my dad could fall into a well .. and he'd still likely not reach for my hand to pull him out. He seems to only seek my visits ...nothing practical as to any help they might need. But SIL doesn't know that piece of it all. She only has an awareness that I'm somewhat engaged in the scene with my dad.
For her to have even had ANY consideration that reaching out to me as Plan B ... Shows such lack of insight.
Any reasonable person would have enough forethought ... not to mention this conversation had transpired already. My having told her I'm stepping out of that role entirely.
So .. fine ignore what was said to you. But for crying out loud .. where's your forethought that might dictate .. or should .."gee... I can't call on Dorker and expect she can stay here in mom's care ... what if things turn south with her own dad ... Dorker would then have to abandon mom to go in the direction of her dad .. that's not an option".
Sigh
As I had once been thundered at "Dorker .. you want to plan for every possible contingency and put e fry thing in a nice neat organized box ...life don't work that way".
Well ... now look at where that lack of a plan has brought the whole thing.
If I'd been stupid enough to step up 'oh certainly SIL .. yes .. you must go ...I'll step right up where you left off".
That "what if" proposed above could easily be my reality ...
All the "what if's" others find in my approach as SO ANNOYING ... well ... what if's... it's how I operate .. that's my reality.
And no longer am I gunna place myself in a position to "own" that which is SO NOT MINE to own at all.
Nope...I made the right choice to take the stance I stand firmly on and re-iterate that with reminder . . And leave out suggestions ..not mine to sort thru even ...or step to to solve.
SIL is plain wrong to withhold the news about B's sister from MIL. That's ridiculous. Her mother is not an infant, keeping this important information from her is infantilising her. Poor practice, very poor.
She is also misguided if she thinks that elderly people are devastated by hearing of other people's terminal illness or death. In my experience, they're just not. They're far more used to it than younger people, and besides - what's it to her? Why should she be especially heart-wrung, more than anyone would normally be, about the sad fate of a woman who is sister to someone she never liked anyway?
You cannot respect a person's autonomy without also respecting their right to relevant information. I repeat, SIL is plain wrong on this point.
I sympathise, she is in a tailspin, she actually does have to be in more than two places at once and finding out it can't be done.
Has she updated the local social workers since she's been back? If not, why not?
But Dorker never mind. This will pass and you will all come through it, upside down or the right way up, no matter what anybody does. You sit tight, hang on, and let it be.
Ironed PJ's
MOW's
Housecleaning
To name a few.
Its the millions of other minutia that will burn out even the strongest ... and she doesn't...I don't think ... slow down long enough to even have any emotion of her own to feel burned out.
Having a couple of days now since the latest little saga. I'm so glad I didn't offer any suggestions (respite care, her daughter, his siblings) ... I just stated my position .. I'm not Plan B.
Left it at that.
I have no idea what they'll ultimately decide to do.
But am resolute in where I stand and happy I re-stated my stance and left it at that.
Her... what I call ...a bit of a ploy at emotional blackmail ...no longer moves me from my stance. Her saying she won't be sharing the news of B's sister's demise with her mom and the logistical struggle ensuing. It would sadden her mom too much .. her mom who already feels like she's such a burden.
Even that piece of it all.
My stance.."ok... your mom ... share that news ... don't share it ... live your life to make sure all is buttoned down as to her wants .. your choice... I'm not going to"
Nice ...for me ...to be in a spot where the tug of war has been laid down
I don't tug any more. I simply don't budge.
You wanna dance a jig..balancing plates on your head and on your toes to the amusement of the subject at hand ..go for it. Don't expect others will.
So from what you have said, SIL is a Licensed trained Social Worker, knowledgable in sourcing out and implementing solutions to individuals and/or families have Real problems, and yet she does not have the forethought to figure out and plan ahead for the very real problems that will most certainly arise, and that will come up more often and with more severity as this Caregiving Duty drags on and on and on? She is Absolutely Unbelievable!
Run, do not stop, if she is truly that dense, then she deserves the headaches that goes along with Caregiving. She better buckle up, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.
Rovana is right, she is a Piz Poor planning Bully!
It's just who SIL is .. through and through. She has been the c'taker to her husband's issues now for decades and without complaint for the most part. It's what she's made of.
I'm guessing it falls on a completely clueless brain . to her . that others aren't made of the same "stuff".
I hate to say it .. but I don't know that I could've been as patient if it were my husband in the shape her's has been.
It is T.R.U.L.Y like she has no awareness at all, that other people don't live like this. Live every minute of every day .. seeing to "others" and their needs .. around the clock and to the detriment of what they maybe want to do with their own time.
THIS IS WHAT SHE WANTS TO DO WITH HER TIME! By all appearances.
It's about the same diligence you see in a young mom .. over her young toddlers .. and having to bounce from one thing to the next . to keep them from eating things they don't need to eat .. and/or getting into things they don't need to get into . and bouncing around to cover that ground constantly.
That's how life is watching her at work . making sure her mom's needs are met, constantly . around the clock . and her husband too . and his frailties.
It's who she is .. it's how she's made.
It never dawns on her .. not even a bit .. that others don't live that way . that others find enjoyment in life . in doing the things that please them, outside of c'taking for others. That gene seems to be missing in her makeup.
It's certainly something my brother would have done for me, had I been ill-advised enough to have attempted to do full time care for my mom. Even without a mentally compromised husband.
Hey, it is great that Dorker's husband no longer thinks that's the care of his mother is entirely on his wife and daughters.
It would be better if he understood that the responsibility for his mother's care consisted of arranging for it.
Hang tough Dorker. You're doing great in an incredibly difficult situation.
You're in my prayers.
Sigh.
I just hope that through all these posts - all this advise - we can spare Dorker and anyone else reading along who may be in similar circumstances- little bit of pain and frustration.
I swear, at times I wonder if I’m experiencing some PTSD -
and ought to get my head examined. I don’t like mental health therapist however - so I continue to try to heal on my own. This thread does help, I think.
Dorker, and all of us narc survivors...
we smile knowingly at each other with the presented pathos. There are people who use up and drive people off. Some recover and have many visitors and support. The complete disinterest in MIL’s plight even by her own children? Let DH manage 1:1 for a weekend. More than 1-4 hours withOUT Dorker helping. My hubs won’t spend an hour with his folks alone. So we the NICE GALS AND GUYS have to say no because the flying monkeys never will. It hurts to realize that the programming trumps marriage vows. I didn’t realize how deep it went when I agreed to wed. The in-laws were healthy and 1000 miles away. Co dependency drove me too. But some of us can say stop the abuse. DH doesn’t want to leave the marriage, rather control Dorker. Her choice like is all survivors.
Victor ... Victim. Two letters differ.
OR the choice.
Who is the responsible one for choosing to be in situation or change the behavior and outcome?
I M (pardon grammar to make point:)