I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Let MIL's children attend the meeting. Let go of any desire to state this or that. Remember, since no one has POA, it may all be an exercise in futility, anyway.
I wonder how long MIL will be in rehab. I wonder how long before MIL is finally placed in long term care. I hope that is what happens. I am well aware that she might end up right back home again if neither SIL nor H are adamant that she cannot live alone any longer and is quite compromised in her abilities.
Reason being: There is a group text of which DD .. initiated, .. in that group text is M, DH, SIL, and DD .. and myself.
I did report in that I had talked to nurse .. about ADL's and cog, etc .. and stressed the importance of getting those addressed, .. and cited examples of why that is needed .. and stat.
In that forum .. are the two other "adults" in the room, in M and DD. If SIL tires to counter with her unicorns and flying monkeys as to her mom's limitations . it's not just me that weighs in on the reality 101 of the ongoing limitations with her mom.
I have cited in that text forum . that their mom can't even wipe her own butt without assistance, she can't bathe .. (both YD and DD can attest to that, try to argue it SIL) .. and she can't use the nurse button (witnessed by DD and YD .. and DH, try to make excuses now SIL) ... she can't even figure her way thru the menu plan without assistance .. (attest to by DD who helped get that done, when it was found to be too daunting for MIL), and same reported to staff that need to look at/address .. these deficits.
And .. as perhaps SIL's weak attempt at rebuttal .. maybe .. perhaps .. the piece about her leaning on the wall for balance .. and SIL response to that, .. "I know she does that and it makes me crazy .. it worries me .. but her rationale is that . she never falls forward . if she falls it's always backwards .. so she rationalizes doing that .. leaning forward against the wall, so she won't fall".
That was rebutted by DD .. who chimed in . "none the less it's dangerous and not a viable plan as to how she can live alone any longer and part of an ADL that needs looked at".
It's not just me countering the unicorn fairy dust and flying monkeys that SIL would like to attribute things to.
SO .. thus far, I'm not sorry that I unblocked her texts.
THUS far ..
DD has succeeded in getting a SW meeting scheduled tomorrow for SIL/DH . .to go meet with SW. I am being pressed to join . for my expertise/knowledge ..
All are aware as I stated in the group text, I have my reservations on doing so ...
1. The less family visible .. the less apt they can be to pawn her off to family care, and I have zero standing in any of this.. I'm not next of kin
2. My being much vested in all this .. in the past . . hasn't worn well for my own psyche.
The above two reasons have been stated by me, as my inclination to not join in on any SW set up tomorrow.
There is a part of me, that would in fact LIKE TO BE THERE, . if only to present the facts as presented to two different nurses now .. who have "said" they will get it looked at, .. but are they gonna?
I want to, .. be the ADULT in the frickin room . and present with the very real deficits .. and put voice to that .. as DH .. always ambivalent . he heard himself . what was ongoing . and didn't see fit to step up to the plate and get it addressed. In fact, ... he wanted to .. as I stated yesterday .. "I'm not sure we should shine in any light on any of that, . .they find out how bad off she is then what?".
THEN WHAT YOU FRICKIN IDIOT ............. just because we hide it and don't show it .. doesn't mean it DOESN'T EXIST.
SIL .. she likes to soft peddle .. make excuses .. (it's the UTI right .. she's in unfamiliar surrounds and doesn't feel good . thus she's disoriented).
There's a part of me that wants to be the damned ADULT in the frickin room and speak the h377 up .. and as I said before, you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a damn pig .... be the adult that puts it out there ... and not subvert, make excuses .. shrug as DH does ..
But .. I'm undecided.
The only person who’s taken action is you, with your calls to inform staff of MILs limitations. If making a few calls is “too hard,too hard...this is so sad”, there’s no way these two will be the ones looking MIL in the eye and declaring she needs to be in a facility. Telling my mom about moving to AL, and later to NH are in my top five roughest caregiver memories, and that was doing it as a team with my sister.
Keep the text block up, keep referring the daughters back to SIL and DH. Neither SIL or DH have shown they’re on board with this new plan. The only way to not become the default driver of this train wreck is to stay off completely.
If you do anything, let it be HOUNDING the rehab center about that COG assessment.
They are likely going to TRY to dump her care into your lap. You saw this coming a long time ago. I've been through a similar scenario and like you, nothing happened until I stepped back and said I was DONE.
SIL has probably had discussions with DH about moving MIL to the yellow bedroom after rehab "for just a few weeks until I can get back down here." But you know once SIL and B fly the coop, they won't be coming back for at least 6 months.
1) I'm glad you pushed for cognitive assessment - a neutral and professional party has to evaluate and determine how compromised MIL is and what level of care she needs.
2) DH and SIL need to hear, understand, and support the read out of the assessment. Until they do this - absolutely nothing can be done. If DD and M want to push anything - they need to push their respective parent to sit down with the SW to understand the assessment and MIL's needs. No one can look at facilities, etc until it is determined what kind of facility is needed.
3) I think DD and M are going to have a mighty challenge with #2 above. Both SIL and DH are demonstrating wishes to escape. DH with his "for Chrissakes!!!" picture in text to SIL are showing why he cannot engage. He needs to find out that he is not off the hook this time and that is not your role. SIL has not been to see MIL because she is sick.... hmmm... and making noises about this CG not being fair to B, to her, they live in IL..... she wants to go home.
DD and M want out of it - DD has kids, M doesn't live locally. If they approach you again - push them - DH/SIL need to sit down with the SW first to evaluate MIL's needs. PERIOD.
4) do not unblock text. This request fired me up the most. If you unblock - you are implying you will read text. Which implies that you will act upon said text - especially when DH goes radio silent - which is his way of dealing with SIL blowing up his phone. You fought long and hard to get out of the text hell - stay out. Remind DD there is no reason to unblock text - DH and SIL need to do #2 above before ANY decisions or actions are to be undertaken. DD needs to push her Dad. M push SIL
By the way - after the initial flurry of the hospital - how many times has DH visited his mom? SIL is taking refuge in illness and making noises.
To me this says neither of them get it, still, and you have a very real danger in being sucked in again. Advise DD, yes. Feet on ground, no. And absolutely no bloody texts!!!!
My 2c - stay strong Dorker. You are my hero.
They don't have the stomach for that .. SIL would go get her . .not a doubt in my mind. DH .. ??.....ambivalence .. as always.
Again, I wouldn't do anything, Dorker. There is no POA. MIL is in control of what happens to her. A SW like SIL ought to be able to figure out what to do. If she can't/won't, then do NOT get to steppin' and a fetchin' again. Maybe you don't see it, but some of us here certainly do. Do you want to have to re-establish your hard-won boundaries all over again?
Here's one thing I want to warn you about the whole issue. Date of discharge can happen awfully quickly. SIL and H might not be given a lot of notice. There is always the right to appeal to Medicare, and that will buy some more time. My mother was allowed 38 days of rehab. She didn't pay a thing, because her excellent secondary insurance picked up the 50% copay after Day 20. There was an appeal, and because paperwork was lost/the appeal company's fax machine not working, etc., she ended up getting some extra rehab time. We had it planned that she would remain right where she was (same room even) when she became private pay.
If placement for MIL isn't determined upon discharge from rehab and SIL doesn't refuse to allow her to go home, SIL will be setting herself up for a long stint of 24/7 care. The urgency to find placement is greatest upon release from hospital or rehab. The family will be responsible once the elder goes home.
Ya know, she doesn't get dressed most days .. because .. it's just too hard for her, .. and .. she can't .. and if she does .. she has to take several breaks .. yes .. several .. along the way in the process . .it wears her out. She then is done for, for the day. That'd be about like me, running a marathon (I don't run .. unless someone is chasing me, and as the tee shirt says .. if you see me running, you probably should run too, something bad has happened). I'd be done for if I ran a marathon.
Then, .. I hear DD when she comes from visiting her granny and the saga that she was to bathe MIL .. as the instructions given (right or wrong there on the staff's part, I'm still unclear) .. that the aide would rinse her, .. but she is to bathe herself. She can't.
I hear the saga that when toileting . she is bracing off to the wall by leaning her head against the wall .. since she'll need her arms/hands . to pull down her pants ..
I hear the saga from yesterday w/YD's visit . that she can't wipe her own bottom . .(has SIL been doing this for her ...??.... I don't know, haven't heard that one) . .might (reach maybe on my part, but who knows) explain some of the recurrent UTI's.
She fails to use that nurse button to call for help .. she has been told, or so the nurse attests to, time and again, that she isn't to move about the room without calling for assistance .. but yet does so.
Can't complete the menu plan .. it's all just too daunting for her .. and yes, I concur .. almost anything would be too daunting for her.
And nobody has thought along the way .. SIL so busy tying up loose ends her mom can't see to . .and worse .. it has never occurred to her that a cog assessment would be absolutely essential in all this .. absolutely vital. In fact, SIL denying need for same .. all these months.
You can put lipstick on a pig damnit, but it's still a pig.
Good GOD!
SIL already mentioned she had a devil of a time when in IL to get her to bathe .. to get her into the bathroom, let's get you washed. That she'd have to assist .. and .. that it was a matter .. she has some kind of transfer bench to the bathtub .. and that part of that process . she'd have to get her legs up and over the tub apron .. nearly impossible for her. We lift our legs without even a thought ... she can't do that. She also can't scoot .. I might sit on a chair and find I didn't position my bottom quite like I wanted, so I scoot on back .. she can't do that.
Just so many incapacities.
If the part stating that the proxy can admit MIL to AL/NH whatever is scratched out, there is no use anyone running around.
But good to get the cognitive assessment done. I think having that as a matter of record, whether or not SIL agrees with it, may be key. APS will certainly be interested in it, if it comes to that.
Let's get that looked at more in depth . and beside that .. the professionals and their assessments need to weigh in here on what she is and isn't capable of .. and more importantly to her .. rather than it coming from us.
To an all too frequent response of .. "it's the UTI .. right ..??.... surely you know that UTI's cause confusion" .. or the other one .. "I don't know why they test for those kinds of things in those setttings . the person's world has been turned upside down, they are in unfamiliar surroundings .stressed out . they can't count those results as valid". Ooookay .. what the h377 ever SIL.
And yes, I realize that at this point, I could phone everyone but God himself and get this done .. actually .. finally .. get it done, as to getting those things looked and an assessment in writing .. and SIL still attribute it to all of her B/S excuses she can come up with .. "the sun and moon weren't aligned properly". But in the end, .. there has been no agreement from me, to step back into any c'giver role . .and there won't be .. so SIL chalk it up .. to the flying monkeys all you want, . in the end, . this is your wagon to push uphill .. so go do it.
I don't mind barking up this tree, . it's something I've wanted done for a long time. If for no other reason .. I want to know myself .. and if SIL wads it all up and chews it up and spits it out, the paperwork .. that's on her. At least it will finally get a more thorough look at it all.
And no, I don't intend to be in attendance, even if asked, .. when this news is broken to MIL .. "guess what MIL we've all decided the time has come .. as sad as it is . that your care needs are greater than any of us can continue to step to", or however they term it. I have no standing in that horse race either .. thus I won't be there, even if asked.
VERY limited .. the scope of my participation and more importantly .. I'm gonna be the one to call the shots on that . being sent to go get dog treats and dog grooming .. and haul MIL for superfluous procedure that serve no one but the doctor .. IMO .. and his billfold and satisfy SIL and all her flying monkey magical thinking .. the answer is no.
I had never heard of the Five Wishes either. BUT it is legal in Florida. It’s a document MIL, SIL and facilities in Florida ARE familiar with and many other states are familiar with.
IF it has been completed it’s time for everyone to know.
IF it hasn’t, it’s time to get it done.
IF there is no willingness to get it accomplished then there is the first non starter of this new regime and its known right up front.
No need to group text, visit homes, have meetings on or off the phone.
It is a place to start.
If there’s no willingness to put it all on the table then no need for Dorker to be involved.
Edit
just saw Dorkers post on Five Wishes. What I read is the first wish on naming who makes the decisions gives that person named the rights of a POA. A copy of this document is supposed to be given to all medical facilities.
The SW at the rehab should be knowledgeable regarding.
Whatever. There is no POA and won't likely be one. No one seems to see the validity of it, preached that funeral and finally dropped it, as was so much throughout all of this saga.
Does SIL (or DH for that matter) have the stomach to do what comes next. MIL refuses, absolutely digs in her heels, and refuses any placement and there's not a damn thing either one of them can do about it .. not one damn thing. The next logical step is she is left there, to "manage" .. which we know she does not. Does SIL have the stomach to walk away from that setting and return to her life in IL .. with the sure knowledge a disaster looms .. and likely of epic proportion for her mom and her frail state. Not a chance in h377.
In fact, .. as I imparted to DD yesterday .. this isn't gonna happen o'nite and sadly .. because there has been so much feet dragging in all of this and nobody being the adult in the room, as to assessments that long since should've been done, and POA's and medicaid applications, etc ... this is gonna take a long time, and in fact, ... what is likely to happen here .. is one of two things .. either the Rehab site gets a full read on her, .. and decides she is in the wrong setting as to her needs, .. and .... a phone call ensues that she is to be placed by the family .. at a higher level setting of their choice, .. and is being discharged, come get her. (Again, .. ain't nobody in this got the stomach for playing hardball with the Rehab site .. nobody but me that is ... and I don't have any standing in any of this to play hardball or not). So SIL will go get her and bring her home. That's scenario #1 .. or scenario #2 .. she does her stint while the slow grind of paperwork goes about it's biz .. and the time is up for Rehab .. and same result, . she's done her stint here . .time to discharge her .. paperwork still grinding it's slow pace, . no answers yet .. discharge imminent .. SIL has to get her and bring her home.
Sadly .. one more scenario where I wasn't listened to as I sounded alarms all along the way ... and even sent SIL links .. in the past, as to Medicaid income qualifications and so forth, even Miller's Trust info should that be necessary .. it all got nixed as .. "she will manage, .. she has a team, ... she is too unhappy to talk about placement", .. the same damn stupid mantras I've heard too many hundreds of times. Ooookay folks .. you got it.
So here we are, .. and somehow I get the impression these people that live by the theme of flying monkeys and circuses think it's all gonna be a cake walk . .. just fill out the paperwork and it's all done, nice and tidy. I don't think it's gonna go that way.
Tried to tell em.
And no ... I'm not at all interested in running from pillar to post to view varying sites .. that can be SIL and B, for all I care .. and they can drag DH along if they can pull him from whatever else has his interest at the moment. I don't have a dog in this show, . thus I won't be participating in that.
At one time, I remember trying to explain to SIL . that if she would go the route of AL .. and income based setting .. (those do exist) .. and specifically one that has a higher level of care, when that day comes .. then she will transition more easily from that to a Medicaid bed . being she is already a resident there. But no go .. as was so much of all this.
So no .. I won't be hopping into it all to tie up all the loose ends .. not in any sense.
I don't mind being the one to facilitate trying to get it on the radar as to the cog workup and the ADL's .. and get those looked at. I've been preaching that sermon far too long, .. let's get
Let the process work. MIL will be evaluated, suggestions for her continuing care will be made. The social worker IS going to press for MIL to go home with a combination of family & hired caregivers. SW is going to see the phone calls & visits from adult children & in laws & adult granddaughters as a readymade TEAM MIL. You've been down that road. It will never work & you will be back to square one in less than a month.
DH & SIL do not want the responsibility, guilt, stigma whatever of having to place tbeir mother in a Medicaid facility. You cannot fix that. They have to come to terms with that decision. They appear to agree to placement as long as it is not their "fault." They would prefer someone else to be the bad guy.
That is where SW comes in.
In your area there may be many facilities with open Medicaid pending beds. Or not. Sometimes the availability options are flexible depending on the SW relationship with the facility administrator. Realistically there may be only one or two openings. And DH & SIL will have to decide asap before those beds are gone.
DH & SIL must be brutally honest with SW as to MIL's finances, etc. And be brutally honest that NO funds will be forthcoming from family.
I have been on the Medicaid pending paperwork journey for my mom for over a year. The application is denied each time: can't read the entries, wrong substantiating paperwork, lost papers, missing records. The NH wants to be paid, mom has no money, the brother that signed Mom's admission paperwork, after she failed to make progress in rehab, will not answer phone calls, emails or texts, nor provide any receipts for the years he handled her finances, nor pay anything towards the mounting costs. I am about at the end of my rope (my DH has dementia, our DD has breast cancer & 3 little children), so the SW at the NH is my best friend. The key is tell the truth about finances & payments up front & let them work it out.
Dorker, you are a kind, loving person who has tried like Sysyphus to get that damn rock up the hill only to find it back at the bottom every morning. It's not your rock!!! You didn't break it; you can't fix it.
What you can do is enjoy being a babysitter grandma while DD does her thing with her granny's situation. You can enjoy your part time job. You can enjoy time with DH. You can enjoy time spent with your dad. You can enjoy being you! Hugs & prayers!!!
DD and M got an eyeful of Granny’s decline. After the acute feelings wore off, their go-to is a Dorker-centric “action plan” to relieve DH’s distress and SIL’s distress. HELLO?
Emporer’s New Clothes.
Guarantee ya - these 2 capable women can research the sh*t out of anything that’s relevant to them. Easy guesses here....child-development topics (DD) and vacation destinations (M)....to scratch the surface.
But they can’t navigate Granny’s next steps without Dorker’s hand on the planchette of the ouija board....?? Can’t sit down w/a social worker and nail the vital points without Dorker playing executive secretary??
I’m calling bulls*t.
Granted, these 2 adult granddaughters do not recognize how groomed THEY are by a lifetime of narc dad (DD) and narc mom (M).
Please, Dorker, don’t make this your problem.
So hard, I know. For a hot minute, those 2 seemed like the closest thing to an ally you’ve had in all this.
They surely mean well. But they are reacting to their own discomfort. Reacting to their despair at seeing DH & SIL at loos(er) ends. Reacting to facing the inevitable w/Granny.
Nothing wrong w/that. They are human.
But the next steps have as much or as little to do with you, Dorker, as YOU choose.
4 things to remember:
1.) Those 2 grown women can use the internet as well as - if not better - than you can.
2.) After 20 months of concentrated effort, your only modicum of peace came after you drew hard boundaries, blocked SIL’s texts and fiercely guarded your mega-reduced role.
3.) Sad Dad is not a crisis.
4.) Laryngitis Mom is not a crisis.
This can all move along properly without you at the rudder, Dorker. DD’s and M’s brains work just fine.
Let them learn something from this other than “Dorker To The Rescue, Volume 987.”
((((big hugs)))) 💗
I think it was mentioned there are scribblings and/or scratch outs on this document. Did anyone sign as the witness? SIL? Does the witness not need to be a neutral party? Is this document in proper order? Everyone may be getting ahead of themselves if they think they are going to use this document to place MIL if she is unwilling.
The off feeling I was/am getting about this involves DD and M.
I think both DH and SIL realize it’s time. But neither are ready to have the “talk” with MIL.
I think DD and M are assuming if they get you on board they can nudge this along and make this happen. As Barb said, I think, take care of the granny problem.
Until DH and SIL shift out of neutral and into drive, and you hear their words stating such I am afraid there is a lot of wishful thinking going on.
I would NOT enable texts from SIL. I don’t think I need to explain why.
I would not accept texts from sil- she can still email you. Get a Group me app account for the text messages so you don't have to get hers directly. Tell DD that's what should be done with everyone. It's what all the kids use.
DH is NOT stepping up to the decision plate and if you return, he has no motivation to continue. Stay at arm's length. I know you love MIL: getting her assessments is the best thing that can happen. Remember, DH wants to keep her shortcomings quiet and hidden.
Not you.
Once in the NH, Dorker will be the stepper and fetcher. As I've written, there is a great deal of steppin' and fetchin' that can be done in that scenario. Since Dorker has now waded back in, she will have to start the process of boundary-setting all over again. MIL will be calling SIL (and probably you), and you will be entreated to do this, do that, get this, get that for poor MIL who is so unhappy in her (probably shared) room NH that's not posh because she's Medicaid. And if YOU find the NH? Then you will be the bad one, because you didn't find a better one.
I don't see the urgency that Dorker agreed to unblock SIL from sending her text messages. It's the rehab's job to assess MIL -- let them do it! Someone gave them stories of unicorns and rainbows in regards to her abilities -- again, let them figure out it is not the case.
As far as DD -- yes, as Rainmom pointed out, this is the same DD who tried to chastise you into becoming part of Team MIL, and then was nowhere around. Let her work on her father to become involved. That would be a good role for her.
Oh, Dorker, you have done SO WELL up until now. And now I see you just jumping right back in and being taken advantage of. You say you will say yes to some things and no to others. But do you really want to have to fight every time when you say no?
Better actions on DD and YD's parts at the rehab would have been to summon staff rather than help granny themselves. You can coach them in that, Dorker.
I would call again today to press on a better assessment of MIL's toileting and bathing skills and to again note that she is not using the call bell.
This whole plan of DD and M relies on someone getting POA. Without that or MIL's cooperation, there can be no Medicaid application, no house sale, etc and MIL ends up back in her home. I don't see MIL giving anyone poa anytime soon.
The fact that she can't do ADLs and has diminished executive functioning does not make her incompetent. I can't see SIL or DH pursuing guardianship.
The best you can hope for right now is to get a clear eyed assessment of MIL's functioning that SIL will dismiss. But at least it will be in her record.
I'm still predicting a broken hip while in rehab. They can't restrain her and if she keeps getting up, its inevitable.
Dorker, this may be as simple as the facility where MIL is currently staying moving her to another hallway where LTC patients reside. I cannot recall if you said this is one of those types of facilities that house rehab and LTC.
I don't think I'd allow SIL to text me just yet. Or, I'd only allow her to text while she has laryngitis, then when her voice returns, she is again text blocked and only allowed to call.
I would NOT GO VISIT any of these places myself!
I'd sit at my computer and identify three.
Find out if the place she is currently residing accepts LTC medicaid patients. If so, it is choice #1. Find one that is located very close to your house and accepts medicaid. And find a third one based upon very good ratings. Give DH and SIL this list of 3 and let them go visit. If you want to help gather medicaid forms for them, that's fine, but MAKE THEM FILL OUT the paperwork and LTC facility forms. Don't do a damned thing because there is still a high risk of SIL changing her mind after you have busted your tail and you will be extremely angry.
I was guardian for a relative with dementia. Long story short, she broke her knee, had surgery and needed rehab. She ended up in a facility only 4 miles from my house. The place was NOT pretty and had a lot of "chair slumpers" there, but they took very good care of my aunt until she passed. I was able to visit there daily because it was so conveniently located. So location is very important and SIL and DH need to view that as being more important than the beauty of the place.
Now then. I thought you weren't getting involved?
Don't get involved. You, DD and YD will spend the next two weeks with all your shoulders to the wheel, you will run hither and yon, you will bang heads together, and you will wear yourselves to a frazzle. Then one morning - probably the day before the facility's admission papers are due for signature - you will wake up to a call from MIL at her house. Surprise! And ain't it great to be home.
Do Not Set Yourself Up For This.
MIL is in rehab. All assessments will take place as a matter of course prior to discharge. Where she is discharged to is Not Your Problem. Leave it alone!
If you leave it alone, the worst that can happen is that you are not disappointed. And, on the other hand, you may be pleasantly surprised. Leave. It. Alone.
Visits from loving granddaughters are very good for grannies who are stuck in rehab. But tell both of them to watch what they're about. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread, and young people tend to think that solutions are easy as long as we all push together. You know better.
I woke up and read this. It’s 3:20am. I’ll come back after I’m up for the morning and had coffee.
a few groggy thoughts....
Something feels off here.
Has DH not mentioned any of this to you?
I think you did the right thing unloading to the male nurse.
Setting up an appt for SIL and DH with the SW, not necessarily a bad thing.
I know nothing and have never heard of a Five Wishes form. I don’t know if that is in any way an alternative for a POA or Medical POA.
The fact still remains that the two primaries, SIL and DH have not had the hard conversation with MIL.
Until that happens, you would be treading in very choppy waters.
IMO, you need to do no more than what you are prepared to see fail. By fail, I mean by DHs lack of participation and SILs ability to muck this up.
The Medicaid application in my experience was supposed to take 3 months. It took 5. And frankly, I don’t know who can handle that if there is no POA. Medicaid did pay for 3 months the application was in limbo BUT there were 2 months we were liable for. Not a place you want to find yourself. SIL NEEDS to handle the Medicaid application if this gets that far! SIL handling the gathering information and letting whatever facility MIL lands handle the submitting of the forms.
Agree with some of the others. Something feels very off here. Kinda feels like no one wants to take responsibility, pull the trigger, I don’t know, just off.
In the beginning I had a hard time with the whole “stepping out of it” action plan. I guess, because that concept is so completely foreign to me. I’m a full-force-ahead kinda gal - especially in situations where others are floundering. I do not have a “wait and see” bone in my body. And even less patience.
But - for the most part I kept my opinion to myself - only expressing my doubt in how your chosen path would impact your relationship with your dh. I kept most of my thoughts to myself - not because I’m a sissy afraid to go up against popular opinion - but because I support you, Dorker.
When I could find words of support or caution along your journey I tried to express them - even as I disagreed with your method. You have given us an extraordinary gift in your candid sharing.
So - once again I find myself expressing words of support and caution as you head in a direction that I would not.
Here goes...
If you are going to step back in - make a few phone calls, do a little investigating - what stopped you from doing that the summer before last when mil was hospitalized with the UTI? Or Christmas before last when mil had her fall that stranded sil there for three months? Do you really believe sil has learned her lesson this time - because she is saying it’s too much and she’s now sick? Or that dh has learned his - because he’s saying he’s too busy and he’s so very, very sad? Do you suppose if sil hadn’t become ill - dh would have come to this enlightenment? Or would he have remained content in his peripheral position?
Are you really buying it all? Cause I’m afraid all this congratulatory talk and ball is rolling, everybody is on the same page - is a tad premature.
As it sits, nothing has changed - not really - and there is such a long, long way to go. Are you sure you want to rejoin the circus before the main act has even hit the center ring?
Im sorry to say, I’m in agreement with guestshop - dd has given you a slick hustle, laced with compliments and ego stroking for good measure. You do recall that this is the same daughter that attacked you for stepping out and assured her father that she’d be on Team MIL- and then was no where to be found? Sorry, but it’s the truth.
No. I’m afraid that with this first blink - in a months time you will find yourself hip deep in Medicaid red tape - drowning. When you look around for someone to throw you a lifeline - no one will be there. Dd will be taking care of her babies. Dh will be off hunting with orphans and missionaries. Sil will be dog sitting in Illinois.
I bet right now, Dorker- you’re thinking “Nope. It’s not gonna be like that. Not this time. Even if they haven’t learned their lesson - I’ve learned mine. I have boundaries this time”.
I hope so, Dorker. If you do this - I really hope so. And, I hope I’m wrong about it all. I bet I’m not.
If this rehab is anything like some of the places my mom was, the notes often don't get to the right people.
I would call every day and ask if there has been an order for a cog assessment and what their assessment of her bathing and toileting are. Explain each time that your daughters have observed that granny cannot do these simple tasks herself and that she is NOT requesting assistance. That she is getting out of bed unassisted and moving furniture. That she isn't using the call button because she lacks the executive functioning to do so.
Note who you speak to each time.
I'm not sure about unblocking SIL right now. If you do, just remember this; whatever she asks/tells you to do, you have the right to say "no, I can't do that". Just like you did when she said "can someone pick up the doggie treats when we get back to Florida". You simply said "no". No reason, just no.
So if SIL starts blowing up your phone with "get this, mom said this, mom needs that", either radio silence or "No, I don't think that's best". I think in the past, you always felt that you had to do or get whatever SIL told you to. You know differently now; you know and we know that you have a better handle on what's better for MIL. From here on in, you TELL SIL, you don't GET TOLD. It's a two way convo, not you getting marching orders.
I think that right now, you are the one who is best able to communicate with the rehab about MIL's safety and about assessments.
But SIL and DH are the ones who need to go in and talk to the SW, talk about permanent placement and about the Medicaid process. You have NO standing to do that and have no access to MIL's financials. Her kids are going to have to do the legwork on getting her banking, etc, info.
If you WANT to go look at other sites for permanent placement, that's up to you. I suspect that it's better that SIL do that when she's well since SHE'S the one who is going to have to pull the trigger and tell her mom that THAT'S what is going to happen. Otherwise, they'll just pull the rug out from under you after you've done all the work.
SIL will probably continue to lament, but I think this may be coming from her own guilt at this point, and what she is seeking is absolution in a way... she wants others to confirm that she has no choice at this point, and yes, it is all so sad but it is what must be done. In the most loving way possible.
I think you may be surprised at how many papers and paths will simply appear to get the process rolling (by the Rehab/SW people), now that the family is on board. They (or the new facility) may even guide everyone right through the medicaid process, as placement is quickly sought out.
Keep us posted - as we suspected and were waiting for - the shoe to drop. It is held by a fraying shoe lace above us right now.......