I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
So I just get a phone call from SIL (she'd been here for dinner earlier, hadn't been gone long).
She got home .. saw that MIL had tried to call her, hadn't left a message .. so she called her mom back.
MIL to SIL on the phone: "I need you to help me, I'm in a room .. .in your house .. and I can't get out, I can't get to the door to get out ..I need you to help me".
SIL: "No mom you're in POSH at rehab .. you aren't at my house
MIL to SIL: "No .. I'm in your house, in a room in your house . and I can't get out, I can't get to the door, I've broken my leg and I can't get up ... I need you to come and help me .. I need to get to the door, I have to pee".
SIL to MIL: "No mom .. you're at POSH .. you're at Rehab at POSH .. you broke your hip .. you aren't in my house .. push the nurse button .. need you to push the nurse button so someone will help you to be able to use a bedpan .. push the nurse button".
MIL to SIL: I don't have a nurse button:
SIL to MIL: "yes you do right there hooked to your bed, it has a red button on it, push that so someone will come help you .. push the red button
MIL to SIL: "I don't have a nurse button".
SIL to MIL: Yes you do . it's right there hooked onto the side of your bed .. push the little red button on that clicker thing .. and a nurse will come help you".
SIL tells me she finally got her to do that . and almost instantaneously a nurse appeared .. like sooner than it would've taken normally. She asked her mom to put the nurse on the phone. Turns out the nurse had only come to give her a suppository of some sort (some inflammation something or other, to help with that from today's earlier events).
SIL expressed to the nurse that her mom seems very confused . thinks that she's in her house in IL . .not in POSH . and seems very confused .. that she wonders whether there is now a UTI ongoing.
Nurse said, .. "okay we'll test for that tomorrow"
<<<me questioning . why tomorrow .. .I dunno .. I'm just asking .. I don't know the answer to that . why not now .. I dunno . maybe they have to have doc orders . I don't know>>
Not sure how the above dilemma ended because the call between SIL and myself ended abruptly when SIL said the following: "Oh chit .. it's mom calling again, let me go .. I'll call you back".
SIL called back in a few mins .. and that had been her mom calling . "I still have to pee".
SIL to her mom: "Did you tell the nurse that came in?".
MIL: "She seemed to be all about giving me pills .. ".
SIL: Yea but did you tell her".
MIL: "I don't know".
MIL again: "I really have to pee bad".
The whole nurse button dialogue ensues again.
And SIL then dispenses with her mom on the phone somehow and now calls the nurse desk herself . and tells them . and they tell SIL they'll send someone to her mom's room to help.
SIL then asking me .. "Dorker can it be a UTI if she somehow has the damn sense to call me .. ???... she somehow has enough sense to pick up the phone and call me .. that doesn't sound like a UTI".
I don't know.
Man oh man.
SIL then lamenting that she guesses she has to get herself out of bed and to the POSH .. by 7:00 or so in the AM when the doc makes his rounds . otherwise she'll miss his visit.
Her questions:
1. Why did her BP fall out again today .. when PT came to get her, she was unable to do so .. because she felt light headed and nauseous and her BP fell out again, why is that happening, are we concerned?
2. What are her hemoglobin #'s now?".
3. Is it possible for her to get impacted inside of 24 hours? Why/how?
4. Can they test for UTI, if they haven't already?
I told her, . "No you don't have to drag yourself outta bed by 5:00 or so in order to get there, just get up at about 6 or so . call the nurse's desk . and let them know you want to talk to him before he leaves there .. ask that he call you . make a list of questions for him.
She said she'd do that.
I do recall that my mom had an issue with fecal incontinence; she would pass loose stool, but there was hard stool blocking the passage of a full clean out. This went on for months because, unbeknownst to us, mom was using both Immodium and Colace to "manage" her bowels.
She went to Assisted Living, was given prune juice, and had a massive blowout. She passed out, was found unresponsive and hospitalized. Somehow, they figured this all out in the hospital (all I remember is having several very quiet hissy fits and telling they needed to FIX what was wrong) and mom had smooth bowel sailing from there on in, due to a very talented geriatric doc at the IL we took her to.
So, I guess it's possible that she's passing stool AROUND an impaction. Geez, someone needs to realize that this lady needs MORE care and supervision!!!!
It really sounds like MIL needs NH level care now.
I was posing that as a valid question to be presented. Do they not chart the bed pan?
SIL said "I was there yesterday and she had a BM while I was there"
Maybe I don't understand "impacted". I took that to mean a blockage has ceased any BM's. Apparently I'm wrong.
How does one get *impacted* in less than 24 hours?
Why did they not realize that she was dehydrated?
SIL or DH REALLY needs to ask these hard questions at the care meeting. It sounds as though MIL is getting really substandard care.
After she has been cleared, can she take Macrogol (or similar)?
Last time I was 'blocked' - was on 8 a day (that is a LOT.)
After I cleared, I started to regulate how many I took (They make a drink)
Now I am on 2 in the morning and 1 at tea time.
I 'go' 3 times a day. I know that is a lot but it keeps me clear. It is semi-runny but I stay more or less comfortable. I do not need the indignity of being 'cleared'.
I wish you luck
Buzzy
Not that having hemmorhoids is better than a bowel impactation (is that a word?) as far a physical health goes. No - it’s the “digging”. How can anyone in their right mind do that and think it’s okay? Okay to plunder with face cream? Okay to dig and then not plunge ones hands into boiling bleach water? Etc.
I suppose “right mind” are the key words in that sentence.
Why have to live so long there is not only no QOL but just misery. Day after day another problem of old age and a life lived too long.
No thanks.
Sorry attempt at humor in what really is a very sad situation.
One day my mom had a substitute caregiver. This lady calls me up to ask me to bring her a nail scrub brush, an under-nail cleaning tool and some files. Seems she found my mom Feces Fingerpainting in the bathroom. I was shocked and horrified beyond belief.
But the real kick in teeth came when I went to fill in the regular paid caregiver- to put her on the lookout. Seems my mom had been doing this for a few months - but mom was able to persuade the caregiver from telling me about it.
At the time I was in the process of finding my mom a nursing home due to her AL booting her out for falling twice in ten days. They said “her needs are just to much for us to handle”. I thought it was odd at the time and just recently have begun to wonder about the pop issue. Did
they know too?
Anyhoo - if I had even the smallest misgiving about the NH being the right next step - the poop issue fixed that. Which, I suppose- is exactly why my mother forbid her caregiver from telling me about it. On some level mom knew playing in poop was wrong - but on another level she just kept doing it.
It’s utterly tragic!
She was "impacted".
I guess the staff came in and did what they do to relieve such and that is now remedied.
I guess the only question I have is "do they not take a gander at the bedpans they empty and so no one that crosses her path, charts the goings on, no one charts "no BM" ....thus a lay person like myself might assume that gets attention and maybe a stool softener or even an occasional enema for those in her immobile apt for such things dilemma.
Guess not
I am so sorry your MIL is going through this! Here is my cautionary tale: This time last year my mom with alchohol induced dementia, living in a very nice AL, which offered almost every service included in one price, began digging at herself to get "things" moving. She always had feces under her nails, on her shirt hem, waistband, etc. Instead of flushing the results of digging, she put it in the sink, shower, or in towels & washrags. The DON & I tried several strategies to fix the problem, but as a last resort, Mom was sent to the behavioral unit to be medicated out of "digging." Even on heavy meds she couldn't stop. Within 5 months she went from living fairly well adjusted in AL, to fixated on her backside, to the behavioral unit, back to AL with an aide to help her keep her hands out of her bottom, to memory care, back to the behavioral unit where it was discovered she had a blood clot extending from her knee to her groin, to hospital admission for treatment, to rehab for PT to get strong enough to use a walker, to memory care in a nursing home. She cannot walk. She doesn't know who she is or who I am. Her constant lament to anyone who passes by: I need to use the bathroom. Someone take me to the bathroom. Heartbreaking!
The behavioral unit head nurse told me that this happens all the time. I hope not to your MIL!!! Fingers crossed & prayers sent to you for a positive resolution.
That last post was truly gag worthy. I WAS going to go have lunch, not now.
My dignified daddy was always obsessed with BMs, It was a generational thing, I swear. He NEVER spoke of it, but being on heavy pain meds for years on end, he'd get backed up a lot. It was handled well, but if he missed a day of moving his bowels--we would NOT go visit. He took large doses of Colace, and Miralax every single day.
I do feel sorry for MIL. She is immobile, eating but probably dehydrated, and so she is getting constipated. She can't verbalize that to the staff b/c she probably has been using the adult diapers for all things "down south". If she has hemorrhoids, she's probably been pushing and now has bleeding tears. And, no, the NH won't allow any meds not called in by the doc.
Her poor broken brain can't put "I'm backed up, I need an enema to get thing moving." Done and done. It's not a rocket science problem at all---
Although too, think she is still able to be angry at SIL and whomever crosses her. It isn't SIL's fault, and putting blame on her is just mean (again, we're dealing with a broken brain that simply can't put 2 and 2 together.
You talk about 30/60/90 days ahead--frankly, she's doing so poorly, I kind of hope she doesn't make it 90 days. Something else will happen.
If you could go back and just 'bullet point' her decline since the starting of this post you would see the slow demise at first to the rapidness that is her life now. It's sad, no doubt. But she has had better care that 90% of the people I can think of. And she's been mightily unhappy with it all along--just using people up. There's no rhyme or reason to why she's doing/thinking what she's doing/thinking now. It just is what it is.
IMHO, she isn't going to really rehab from this broken hip. With no reasoning skills left---she's going to fall again, just holding your breath waiting for it.
While it's important you have that POA and can make decisions---I personally wouldn't expect things to stay 'status quo' for more than a day at a time.
Isn't it AMAZING how the sickest people seem to live for-freaking-ever? I don't mean to sound mean....it just seems that way. What's her QOL now? Does she even HAVE one. I actually feel very sorry for her. I would have signed on for Hospice long ere this and met that cloud halfway.
I AM very happy that they finally figured out how to get B to his sister's funeral. This man is next to being a saint, shoring up the periphery all this time. It's the least the family could do for him!! I hope he has a chance to decompress and spend time with HIS family.
I'd be sure and mention this incident to the SW also. This is a good example of the increased level of care MIL needs, regardless of showtiming or what she may have told them. I was just thinking, I wonder if Posh has an ombudsman that you could talk to about her care needs as well?
Apparently since that time ... whatever is ongoing has progressed to some burning and pain that is causing tears
Maybe she has ...like you described ... caused herself some further irritation digging at herself ...
Staff told me that this behavior was not uncommon, and many of the elderly seem to become obsessed on their bowel function. (talk about a narrowing world!)
While we were out there, .. we all marveled at the fact that we don't have to worry (at this time anyway) that she'll get out of bed .. and try to get anywhere . she's terrified right now, even with PT assisting . like a nightmare terrified .. when they try to get her "up". She's so afraid she'll fall .. so terribly afraid.
SIL talking of what a set back that was, as to MIL's well being. I asked this question knowing that .. with the two of them .. it should be more in the forefront of their thinking process than it truly is.
"Ya know .. you have to wonder .. of course she's always been a hair's breath away from a fall .. one that hurts her seriously and now she's there .. but ya have to wonder . that morning ,.. they had come in to get her up and weigh her, . and she said when they did that .. she'd felt uneasy .. didn't feel well . . felt light headed and nauseous .. and they got her up and weighed her .. and ... I asked her did she tell them that she wasn't feeling well and she said she didn't. But then for her to .. of course she knew that SW Jessica was coming and so she wanted to go brush her teeth and try to put on some makeup . and look as presentable as she could .. did it not occur to her .. gee . ya know when they got me up before I sure didn't feel good .. maybe I better stay right here and not bother with getting up .. I might fall, did that never occur to her .. ".
Just a deer in the headlight look from both of them and an answer from SIL: "She has such poor judgement".
But anyway .. phone call moments ago from SIL who is on site at POSH . to visit . .Poochy in tow.
She has gotten there to an enormous mess.
I don't know (hemorrhoids), SIL hasn't looked and I don't think she intends do . but agony .whatever is going on MIL is in tears she's hurting so bad .. and so SIL had asked of staff . what are they doing to address it .. can she got to the drug store and buy Preparation H .. and use it .. and no .. the staff said they can't allow anything other than what the doc orders and they have a call into the doc . but thus far no answer .. and so .. in the meantime . .her mom is crying she's hurting so bad .. and .. SIL happened to notice (omg how gross) . that her mom's hands were a mess . fingernails looked like they had excrement under them .. she asked her mom .. "mom were you digging at your behind .. "
Answer from her mom: "Yes . that she'd been in such pain thru the night . and that she'd tried to scratch . tried to rub some .. (I don't know it's some kind of face wash cream) .. etc .. ".
SIL: "Did the staff know you were doing that".
MIL: "yes they caught me at one point and took that cream away from me".
SIL then took it upon herself .. I don't know how she even knew the number, but she called the MD's cell phone # herself, got him on the phone .. explained what was ongoing . he said he'd call the nurses right then .. and she said the nurse was on the phone with him as we spoke ..
Said MIL is in such pain . she told SIL: "Just go away and don't ever come back". Said to SIL: "You're the one that put me here and now look at the damn mess I'm in here". She is actually crying it hurts so bad whatever it is that's ongoing. Said she got out an old toothbrush she found and scrubbed her mom's hands and fingernails, to clean them, as SIL put it: "God knows what she's eaten this morning using these hands with chit smeared on em .. now she's gonna have E-Coli or some God awful something".
Said that her mom had called them at one point . needing them to bring the bed pan, they didn't come .. she pee'd all over herself. Geeze
There is this false impression out there as to what hospice is and does.
In the movies, when someone is dying - at home with hospice care - they always show some individual dressed in scrubs or a cheery nurses smock - sitting nearby at the ready with that icy on-a-stick thing. They are ALWAYS there - giving the impression that hospice supplys some round the clock guardian angel - at the ready to take care of every little thing.
It just doesnt work that way.
Its good that you and sil have a realistic picture of what hospice does. I hope dh does too.
Dont get me wrong - I think hospice is definitely helpful. But it’s not an solution complete unto itself.
My mother is in a very good situation where she is now. I like most of the staff that takes care of her, my mother has bonds to some of them, and she has a private room in one of the newly-renovated wings. (There are many private rooms in this facility.) It's not like I get the calls to come help very often -- certainly if I did, something would have to change!
Yes indeed a good question .. "what assurance do we have that we won't be blinded sided with a discharge for home .. that none of us are equipped to deal with".
Another question I have ... that I'll run past SIL/DH .. as to SW Jessica .. "what are you doing to help MIL address this next journey she approaches and help her to come to grips with it".
May be told, "oh she accepts it" .. but important that SW Jessica realize that's not at all what we're hearing ..
Would be interesting (somewhat) to approach any EOL discussion. Only because .. the crux of that dialogue ...
First and foremost .. lack of executive function .. getting MIL to follow the connecting dots there and does she really wish that as an approach would be almost insurmountable. She does express a wish . (has for a long while) to go on and die .. but does she really want to go from point A to B to C to D .. to get that ball rolling .. especially when .. in the end .. that isn't gonna mean you get to go home .. to die in your home .. that's not what it'll look like. Yes, we can involve Hospice in your care in a NH setting if that's what you wish .. and go thru the ropes there .. but it will STILL be in a NH setting . not in your home.
Getting her to follow the connecting dots there and come up with any logical conclusion .. I dunno .. truly don't.
All she sees is that she wants to go home ..
All she sees is that she's ready for her *cloud* to come get her
Does she wish to consult with someone on that issue .. and "discuss" the connecting dots and whether to approach that, even though it won't mean "you get to go home"?
I dunno.
I kinda wish I hadn't invited the kids to come, would've been good to have a sit down with DH/SIL absent the confusion and chaos brought about in the kids visiting .. but that door has been swung wide open.
Our usual .. .our "norm" has been to have the kids over on Sundays for dinner .. at one time that was our "norm". That has all been SO UPENDED in all of the trials with MIL of recent weeks .. and in my being sick .. 2 x's in the last month or so .. and so I was looking for our *norm* .. just a piece of .. "can we have our normal back".
It will be too chaotic to really cover that ground more than likely with the kids here .. but maybe they'll have to shove on off to get kids in bed .. and we can then talk some, if SIL is willing to stick around for a while.
Another question that I have (anybody else think of any poignant questions, weigh in please) .. "At what point will we have a better feel, via medical records, via progress as to Rehabbing the hip .. etc .. what point can we expect to have a better read on whether MIL is a viable candidate for AL .. vs NH?".
I'd like to ask . but won't .. not right now . pending atty visit upcoming in this next week . for POA signature .. I'd like to asks: "Is there any point in doing a cognitive assessment as to her functionality .. are we looking at that as anything needed?".
Another good one that SIL doesn't seem to have an answer to .. it was said that there'd be a referral for psychiatric services (counseling) .. but I asked SIL has that transpired, has the psych visited . and she didn't know .. said she'd like to know .. but doesn't.
I don't know just brain storming some questions that would be pertinent.
I know that other progress meeting we went to .. that was . at least IMO a huge waste of time .. that was far too brief to cover any meat of the issues. And I suspect this one will be much the same.
To arrange this phone consult, they should send an e-mail (cc the attorney so their office is in the loop) saying that since none of you have been through this process before, and this situation has so many moving parts, you want to utilize the in person time wisely. So, if it is possible to schedule a quick phone call, 1/2 hour-ish. You will send a bulleted list of questions first (or send the questions with the phone request email). DH and SIL could make the list, with your wise input:), over dinner tonight.
They should also give her a brief rundown on where things stand with MIL and make it clear that they are trying to avoid the possibility that there is another miscommunication on the facility end and MIL ends up being discharged unsafely. No one can scramble like that again and that would be very detrimental to MIL’s well-being.
End the e-mail with appreciation for the hard work she is doing on MIL’s behalf, we have worked so hard to respect MIL’s dignity and agency in all of this, but we have been stretched to the point that we are truly relying on your knowledge/experience in this matter.
This language makes it clear you are working toward MIL’s best interests, that you RESPECT their input, and that you are all worn out, lol.
I only suggest this because I am always amazed at the facilities that say they do “memory care” when what they really mean is that we take care of sweet little old ladies who are merely forgetful. Those two things are light years apart, as most of us know.
I am sorry you are going through that. That kind of high response junk is so stressful. It sounds like so much less than it is, lol.
If you ask about whether they see a patient through to “end of life” that should be the language to open it up. I personally wouldn’t go with anywhere that doesn’t in MIL’s case. You probably don’t want to go through all of this again in a few months.
Home hospice - comes a couple of time of week, provides bed, meds, etc., you provide lion’s share of the care... this does not sound like it is for MIL at this time... especially in light of the workload for family
Hospice facility - usually small number of beds with quicker turnovers. This is usually very short term. Someone who has weeks to live or who has declined measures to prolong life. They are moved in from home or hospital/facility. Full care, family basically visits. Staff does everything needed.
Hospice in conjunction with facility - this is usually when someone living in a facility goes downhill and is assessed by a physician that they have under a year (some places, 6 months) to live. Hospice team usually has a relationship with the facility. Often facility staff will handle paperwork for Medicare on this, it can be quite smooth. Hospice staff checks in a couple of times a week, monitors vitals, handles meds for pain, etc. People can go on and off this depending on their condition. (Note: NOT all facilities allow this. Some will ask that your LO be moved to “higher level care facility”.)
Hope that helps on the hospice side. I know the word “hospice” is confusing to people. Too many definitions, lol.
I feel like telling the NH to just deal with my mother's issues. But they can't force her to take her meds. If she doesn't take her Seroquel, she could just become more agitated and then the NH will require me to hire an overnight sitter (I refuse to be the sitter, even being paid).
There are family members/friends (paid sitters?) who do seem to be with some residents all the time. I refuse to be like one woman who appears to be there all day to spoonfeed her mother all meals or like another one who doesn't leave her mother at night until the mother finally falls asleep.
I wonder if MIL will try to manipulate someone to be there a lot. You seem to think she is now beyond the ability to manipulate. I don't know about that...it could be a part of her that persists. There are certainly parts of my mother's personality that persist in her dementia.
SIL very much aware .. that yes one can consult w/Hospice .. but all that is gonna do is place her back in her home . . as she so wishes .. with Hospice staff that stops by .. oh .. maybe 2 x's daily .. Who is gonna do the rest of it. She can't. She knows that.
Yes . she could I guess go to a Hospice site . but in those .. she's gonna need to get busy with the biz of dying . they aren't gonna let her lay in a hospice bed for months on end .. it doesn't work that way . she'd have to get busy dying or they're gonna get her on outta there. And that defeats the whole purpose .. if she's gonna lay in a bed in a facility somewhere . then .. do it in a NH or whatever.
DH/SIL and myself .. curious .. very curious .. what in the world did the conversation entail with SW Jessica who did go by and spend some time with her.
I know that we are to meet with Jessica (and MIL as a matter of fact) later this week for an "action plan".
We all ponder what in the world was said .. because we'd expressed to Jessica .. boy did we .. we drove it home .. that MIL does NOT want this path forward .. and she wasn't gonna get old, in denial .. and she thinks she can go home . and she is all thru and thru woe with me .. so what in the world did they talk about.
Did MIL impart to SW Jessica (MIL will say what she thinks you want to hear) .. "I just have to get my mind right with all this and I know this is how it will have to go" . so now Jessica thinks she is there . she's .. on the path as to acceptance.
We just don't know ..
I wouldn't of seen it going that way .. I would've seen that Jessica would've encountered someone firmly in denial in all this . that she is not old . doesn't want anything to do with a setting that includes "old people" . .that she can go home ... that poor poor her, is loosing EVERYTHING that means anything to her . that she doesn't think this is necessary .. that .. she can go home . .just she and her little doggie . and so much more that we've all heard over and over and over and over and over.
But we don't know what was said ..
All we know is that there is a Progress Report scheduled this week w/staff at POSH .. and .. at least initially there was a separate meeting to be at . with SW Jessica.
I proposed to SIL .. "is SW Jessica gonna attend the Progress Report meeting with POSH staff .. are we gonna go to a meeting with MIl and SW Jessica and then go back .. to a separate meeting that doesn't include SW Jessica but staff at POSH".
SIL: "Ya know, I'll ask her, that's a good question .. probably would be good if she can be a part of that Progress Report meeting too".
Next thing I knew . the meeting that was to have been MIL/SW Jessica and us .. nixed.
SW Jessica will now come . about 30 mins earlier .. than the scheduled Progress Report meeting . and she and MIL and us .. will have about a 30 minute meeting .. and then .. the time slot will be upon us for this progress report meeting .. with POSH staff . her in attendance also.
So . it's been quite puzzling to us what must've been said . by MIL to SW Jessica.
As I told DH ... "You know your mom . she will say what she thinks you want to hear .. I would guess she white washed what she said to SW Jessica .. and so .. all our telling Jessica how much she hates all this, doesn't wanna do it, is in denial, ,etc etc etc. That Jessica maybe now sees someone who is more on the path of acceptance to all this .. I don't know".
I guess we'll find out later this week at said meeting.
She had longer in her home, than really she should've .. because of her stance she'll manage . when she in fact was NOT managing .. we all were .. and that was ME a lot when SIL couldn't be here and I can't do it either".
I've said all that and more ...
But I guess as is so often the case, those who weren't in the trenches . want to wring their hands and 2nd guess and so forth . he would fall under that ilk . would be about my assessment.
He'll just have to work it through in his own mind . that's all I can say.
I think in talking with SIL . and the 3 phone calls that came her way from MIL after she'd been there for a few hours to visit .. I think . somehow .. (maybe M) .. she has gotten on board with the whole notion . that she needs to "visit" but that's it . and that she is so firmly entrenched on the page that her mom needs to now work towards working with staff and building some self reliance on that fact .. reaching out to staff .. and getting whatever help she needs via that channel . (she's right) .. she .. SIL seems so much farther down the road on it all, than she E.V.E.R. was before .. it's really stark how much farther she's come.
She intends to go today and take Poochy to visit a bit .. and it will be just that .. a "visit". She is coming over here for dinner, we're grilling out today and she is invited and so will come later .. to visit here .. and maybe drink a beer and kick back ..
Good for her. And even better if somehow .. SIL and DH both .. absent MIL on the scene . have a chance to talk, .. if he can "hear" her and what she says about it all .. and maybe at least "listen" to her take on it all .. it will be good for him. And good for her, . .also .. to see that he is struggling with all this .. more so than is she.
As for what happens going forward, SIL back in IL . and the myriad of complaints that go on . and summoning by staff .
He will be the contact person . .not me.
Now will he then turn to me, .. "Dorker go over to the NH . they say that mom is ___________ and ___________ and she needs someone to come by there".
I will discern (more fights to come .. and yes I've made my stance known . but these are folks that aren't known for *listening/hearing* me when I say I'm done) .. I will discern whether I think whatever ____________ and ___________ are, warrant a visit that way. And very much so . what I think as a "need" and what he might think of "need" .. two very very different things. And so more fights likely to come.
MO .. she didn't want to be in IL .. where her daughter could be more attentive to her . she wanted to be in FL (yes I know her brain is broken .. she couldn't executive function that out .. to see how that looks) .. she wanted to be in FL by damn . So in FL she will be .. but that is inclusive of a son . who works and is not going to be there everytime she gets a hang nail . it just isn't gonna happen. And a DIL (me) that won't .. I Just won't do it. Their mom.
So .. what I see, is more fights coming . when I refuse to go . because her sheets are too scratchy or because her blanket isn't warm enough . or because she says so and so is mean to her .. or because .. any number of other things I don't think warrant a "drop what you're doing and run that way". More fights.
I have said it and said it . I don't want to be the contact person .. and I won't be running there every time she gets the hiccups. So .. don't listen to me, don't hear me .. but you'll see . just as I said I was done running a mobile Assisted Living .. and I did just that . stepped off of doing it .. same will be the case here.
Circling back to the convo's between SIL and her yesterday. She actually told SIL that she wishes she could come home, . lock her bedroom door, not eat, not drink and just go on and die".
SIL responded to that, "that's not realistic mother, we can't let you do that".
So anyway .. I don't know . we will just have to see.
That I will be ending my days here on this earth . in this kinda place .. it's nothing I ever wanted .. I just am struggling to put my mind to it all.
Sounds to me like SIL did what I would guess to be the right thing . and countering with her mom .. asking her (SIL and I had talked about all this .. and I guess she thought it was a good question) .. "Mom what did you think would happen if you got old enough that you couldn't care for yourself".
She said her mom answered .. "I guess I just thought I'd die peacefully in my sleep"
SIL: "Yes . we all wish that .. but not all are fortunate enough to meet that as their fate . .and you may still . who knows .. but .. there is this other journey now that you will need to go on as to your path .. and so .. you just have to try to come to terms with it.
SIL saying that she and her mom . she talked to her mom about the fact, that she was able to live in her own home, thru her 70's and 80's . something a lot of people don't get to do .. but that it's no longer safe for her to do so .. and that she tried .. SIL did .. she tried having her in IL . to care for her . but she's not able to do it f/t .. and besides that MIL doesn't want to be in IL.
All in all, it sounded to me like MIL . and I don't see it as being manipulative or conniving .. I see it as a child would do that wants their way . and be damned how that happens .. they want their way. That kinda thing is how I view it all. Sounds like .. MIL was .. maybe laying it on kinda thick with SIL .. trying to elicit sympathy .. I don't know if she somehow thinks in her broken brain . that if she pours it on thick enough . that SIL will change course and give up her life . .and bring her mom home to her house . and be her c'taker.
It's not going to happen. I think at one point in time, SIL thought . that's just what she'll do . but that ship has sailed. SIL now firmer than firm . that she can't do it, and she knows it.
Unfortunately .. she's not really getting thru to SIL .. to get her to bite the hook of sympathy .. and so I suspect she will turn this whole saga to DH .. and with him . he's not yet there . on the road of .. "it is what it is .. ", he just is not.
I think he does "See" .. that there is no other way . but he's still on the flying monkeys and unicorn dust page .. of "I wish it didn't have to be this way".
He even said to me last night .. after this convo with SIL and MIL .. "Ya know if none of ya'll were in the mix as to how this all plays out, .. I'd bring her to her home .. I would . just as she wants . and leave her be .. I would do it .. ".
I didn't even answer to that ..
He then said, "but then what ...???.... I mean I can't be there 24/7 .. and even if I did bring her home to her house .. what ..??... lay her in the bed . and shut the door and walk away .. let her starve to death .. let her lay in her own chit .. and never change her diapers .. I couldn't do that .. so .. I hate all this .. I absolutely hate it".
I'm done saying it .. I've said it to him more times than I can count .. I just listened .. but .. I've said to him, "I wish you would frame this from the POV that she will now have skilled staff to attend to her needs, rather than the poor plight that she never wanted to have to go this route". I've said it . doesn't seem to sink in.
Unfortunately .. if/when she turns this dialogue towards DH . it will T.E.A.R. him up. He won't take it as SIL is .. SIL who was hands on . in the trenches .. wiping butts and you name it . thru all this .. and is further down the road of .. "it is what it is".
I'm really for the most part, done countering it all with conversation with him .. I don't really counter any longer, just listen. I have said to him, 'talk to her docs . they too advise she needs round the clock care". I've said to him, .. "it just is what it is DH". I've said to him, "yea .. it's sad . I know she never wanted this .. but she had longer