I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
BTW, your blow-up was not really a blow-up. You are just so conditioned to pacifying these high-strung narcissists, that a dose of straight talk is out of their comfort zone. And formerly outside of your comfort zone ..... but that ship sailed. 👍🏼😃
What you said was accurate, on-point and exactly what SIL needed to hear. And as someone else noted: after all the smoke and all the noise, SIL is going to return to her home empty-handed, isn't she? A.K.A. without Big Momma. Real nice. "And the Oscar goes to....."
And HOORAY that hubby is in your corner! Do keep in mind that men relate better to "nuts and bolts" than emotional well-being. (Especially anyone else's emotional well-being!) Whenever you can, remind hubby that your needs include: You need to be freer to contribute to his business without distraction. You need to be freer to nurture his grandkids and his daughter.
That P.O.V. is not the whole picture; as you know all too well! But let's face it, hubby has a dose of "What can you do for me?" in his DNA -- like the rest of his clan. If you frame your need for change in a context that benefits hubby, it'll help him focus on keeping you out of the weeds.
The payoff: As the drama recedes, you'll be able to nuture yourself however you see fit AND and nurture your immediate family.
You're getting there, Dorker! There IS light at the end of the tunnel. Keep up the good work.
I don't think you were out of line at all.
Glad that H is on your side.
I myself think that it is absolutely bonkers to allow MIL to drive anymore. After the episode where she couldn't figure out what to do when she got in the car, UTI or not. Why would her family (SIL) allow her to compromise her safety and the safety of others out there on the road? MIL does need to be less selfish.
Take some time to get your bullet points ready for the conversation to come with SIL. Stick to the facts and hold your ground.
Gosh I know that terrible feeling of uneasiness that causes you to be up in the middle of the night and your mind racing.
If SIL leaves her mom living alone, this will happen again...the UTI, panic calls, refusing to be evaluated. Time to end this madness.
It's clear she needs supervision or will continue to make bad choices.
Hope this is settled once and for all, but it's going to take time. The reverse mortgage complicates things unless she finds a buyer for her home.
Hang in there, you are doing just fine.
But remember, she's fine. She'll manage.
Next time someone asks you to do for her, that's what you tell them, " Oh, she'll manage. Me, I'm not managing her life anymore, remember? The doctors say she's FINE".
Just because THEY are all idiots doesn't mean you have to make up for it. Go do something for your daughter.
Some questions -- are you sure BIL's daughter is thrilled to have him living with her? It's neither here nor there, but it often seems like such a good solution to...others who aren't there. And another question -- you say you will be on the frontlines with care for your own parents. At no point will moving them into your home be part of the picture, correct?
So it looks like MIL will be driving again soon. If she weren't a hazard to others on the road (she is, correct?), I'd be tempted to say just let her drive and let the inevitable accident happen. If you put up too much of a fight (if neither SIL nor H will acknowledge the driving issue), then you will have to become part of the solution. And that is where you DO NOT want to go (no pun intended).
I know through and through it was what had to happen. As it's mentioned here, Mr. No Shot or whatever it is, is never gonna take the bull by the horns.
I think of all the lunacy that has gone on.
I'm sure others here have similar tales.
I know we'd had a particularly bad storm here and we had our own damage here (we'd brought her here, her area having been evacuated). Brought her, and her dog and all the froo froo stuff for her dog here (quite the chore). Dealt with her here, and her lack of mobiity. Power loss here for a few days. We had some damage here, fencing blown own .. tree limb debris everywhere.
Got her home, when the worst was over. There, .. her home also, . or rather yard .. some damage. Tree limbs down all over the place, fencing blown over, etc.
Nothing would do until that could get fixed .. I MEAN FIXATED ON IT. Everyone in this city was working their own damage to their yards (or worse). But you would've thought she was the only one with damage.
Oh heavens, she couldn't let her dog out into the b'yard because he might get out in one of the areas where fencing had blown over. So take him out front on the leash .. at least until we can get there to fix it. NO .. no she couldn't do that, part of what she does, taking him out at night .. she's too scared to go out front. Turn on the flood lights out there, and take him out via the garage, just into the patch of grass there, on on a leash and then come back in .. this isn't rocket science. No .. no no no. She's too afraid to be out in the front at night.
We couldn't even deal with our own here, and what needed doing until BY GOD that fence had to be secured, so her precious dog could be let out. Then it was a matter of all the debris in the yard and that needs to be cleared. Well I'm here to tell you every yard in this city looked like H*LL ... everyone's. And it was a matter that people would get to their yard and picking up debris as they could, us included. We had our own to deal with here. But again, that tree debris all scattered it's gotta get picked up .. it's so unsightly.
We did that, .. went to gather it all, something like 20 garbage cans full of yard debris drug out to the street. The local garbage, yard refuse people were so far behind with all the damage everywhere that they didn't pick up what was at the streets .. sometimes for days and days particularly if you lived in a hard hit area of town .. they were behind, from all the damage. That .. fixated on ..
OMG to the point you want to scream. GET A LIFE .. D*AMN look around, everywhere on your street others also don't have theirs picked up, turn on the television news, it's being reported that's the case all over the city.
Or another time when there'd been a storm .. DH was out of town .. and I went over after the fact and picked up what was about 5 or 6 cans of sticks .. and at that point in time, I took all the full cans and stuck them over beside her little shed .. way out back . because in her neighborhood .. if you put the yard debris cans out a moment before the day they are to be picked up.. you get tagged .. by the municipality. Not allowed. So it wasn't the day to drag yard debris cans to the street. But at least, .. OMG do it now ... I got it all picked up so she wasn't sitting at her perch . in her kitchen, view to the b'yard obsessing over all the yard debris, unsightly. But I put those cans beside the shed out back. Figuring when DH is there next, .. hopefully he will drag them to the street.
That too obsessed over. Now these are cans of sticks . shoved beside a shed over on the far end of her yard, not even viewable. But that, obsessed, absolutely obsessed .. those cans need to go to the street.
All this LUNACY has gone on far far far too long.
I still don't know, understand .. how come I was on the scene and heard the stories told one way as to MIL's well being .... and things that were found wrong with her, .. yet here we are less than a week later, and follow up visits aren't indicating that.
How can a staff neuro doc report a microbleed (which no, isn't all that uncommon in people her age, but is indicative of further investigation) . how can a staff neuro have that as a finding .. and mention it. Yet less than a week later, they go to their private neuro and he supposedly has the hospital records, and reports to them, "No conclusive evidence of a microbleed, no need to look at that any further'. How can I be at the hospital and the staff neuro reports that he'd like her to have an EEG and an MRA . now suddenly that too, at the private neuro .. no need to do that, it's said by the private neuro NP "there was no evidence of any seizure disorder, no need for an EEG or MRA". It was said by the hospitalist doc .. there was evidence of further damage to her brain... possibly other strokes (when undetermined) .. but yesterday they go to the private neuro that doesn't even get mentioned at all. It was said by the staff neuro, no driving until cleared thru rehab program .. and a physician. They go to the private neuro less than a week later, and the private neuro NP says no .. that is only for those with varying stages of dementia . that won't be necessary they see no reason why she can't drive. It was said at the hospital that she will need a full cognitive battery of tests .. that too, undone .. no that won't be necessary, we don't see any cognitive impairment, probably due to the UTI and confusion there.
How can there be such discrepancy ..? I still don't get that.
Frankly, it was these kinds of constant emergencies that led us to tell my mother she could live alone anymore. She was putting US in danger, geting to her during storms.
Note I said TELL. Not ask.
I like your spin: if nothing is wrong with her, then she's just a drama queen. Either way, you've stated that you're out of it.
Frankly, in your shoes, I'd go find some nice talk therapy for a couple of months to repair the damage these idiots have caused your psyche.
The old friend, Bil....how did he know sooo very much about Mil, what Sil is so obligated to do for Mil...if the fam is to observe privacy issues with him?
Seems to me, Sil has used him to confide her woes for a long time now.
Perhaps keeping those lines of communication open between her and him...cutting you out of being in the loop? She probably has complained about you to him.
He does seem to know a lot, and has an interest for a reason.
This has been making you angry for quite some time. Don't know why exactly, but I blame Sil. Then, I am just reading from a distance.
Guess I will mosey on over to the caregivers behaving badly thread. Leaving you with this:
Dorker texting to Sil: " o dear, don't know what has got into me, I accidentally texted 14 pages of Mil's medical reports saying there is nothing wrong with her at all to Bil's phone." "I think he wants to marry her though".
DH said this: "Mother is going to have to understand, she can't live alone anymore".
He's going to have an ugly fight on his hands with her. She already is the woe with me sort over the abandonment of her other son from years ago .. over that whole topic and that's precisely what she will see in her son (DH) when he then approaches this and stands firm.
He tried doing so when she was hospitalized and it got ugly. He backed down .. changed the subject, seeing that it was agitating her. No one has apparently addressed it since.
And SIL is flying around to doctors .. and getting reports that all is well with the world and we can full-steam ahead, status quo. Nope.
Blew the H*LL up at her this afternoon, in a huge way. I have never had a cross word with her, ever. I've plead my case, for a very very long time on this front, but in a civil way. This time, it was not "civil". It was ugly. I didn't curse her .. or anything too punitive . but she knows now . if she didn't before, it's OVER . status quo is OVER.
Oh that today just flew all over me. HOW DARE HER.
Calling/texting me from afar .. multiples times per day .. as to the latest need dujour ..
Well if your mother is FINE .. all is well. THEN WHY ARE YOU BLOWING MY PHONE UP SEVERAL TIMES DAILY FROM AFAR .. she can manage then. Oh wait .. she can't manage ..well then figure out what the h*ll is wrong with her then and deal with it.
You said what needed to be said.
I hope H backs you up.
Don't feel like the Village Idiot. You are not.
First off, I'll start with earlier in the day and what transpired. I've referred to here on this site before, the brother-in-law to MIL. He was married to her sister for many many many years. Her sister now deceased (3 or 4 years ago). But these were folks that double-dated together, went to high school together, raised their kids together, etc etc. So he's more like a brother to her. He is her age. He recently sold his home, and gave up his auto to move to another state to be looked after by his daughter, living with his daughter. He is nowhere near in as bad of shape as MIL is. I agree 1000% that was the right move on his part. He is getting on up in years (no significant impairment ... yet .. other than he struggles to walk very far). His daughter (same age as SIL or thereabout) lives several states away and she's all he has. No other offspring that will take the reigns and help him, so the decision was made.
He texts me from time to time, just to show me pictures of where he's living now (beautiful area out in the country). Just idle chit chat. Texts with DH also, on occasion.
He sent me a text this morning, of himself, in his new recliner (lift recliner) and his support hose on (that's new, support hose).
Now bear in mind .. there is some *enabling/co-dependency stuff that goes on here. MIL and SIL vehemently protect the privacy of the goings on here .. with her and her well being .. and most specifically with this brother in law and his daughter, as they've had some pretty strong opinions in the past as to her well being and her choosing to remain "independent" and have said so. Their opinions . they kinda align with mine.
I have never spoken up to them, he or his daughter .. and never would. I don't wish to give them fuel for any fire. I kinda feel like they do about MIL and her situation, but they don't know how I feel about it. If I'm asked, and I have been, I answer rather benign .. "oh I don't know what they'll do, H and his sister have got their work cut out for them", that kinda thing.
So I get a text from him this morning .. him sitting in his daughter's living room in his new recliner (lift). And his support hose. I responded, "Well look at you all handsome looking, those hose .. you just need a matching purse". Just joking with him.
He responded. "Yes we need to get your MIL some of those, .. I understand she was recently hospitalized again".
I responded, "yes that's true".
He said in response to that: "I made the decision to move to be with my daughter, for that very reason .. your SIL has had to run the roads and hop on planes more in the last year or so than should be fair .. MIL needs to realize the impact of her decisions on those that help are for her, she's being pretty selfish".
I responded (of course, this to me, .. is like a feather in my cap .. as I'm struggling with all this presently). I responded, as I always do, with the kinda the caveat of putting the twist on what HE is doing and THEIR situation, rather than speaking to MIL and that situation. "Yes, you made the absolute right decision .. I'm sure your daughter is very much pleased".
He then responded, .. "it's not fair that she'd have to live her life with a suitcase packed and at the door ready to head this way at any given moment, that's what your MIL is doing to your SIL and to you guys".
Of course, now I'm kinda fuming . because obviously HE EVEN SEES THIS .. (I knew that before now, but haven't talked to him in recent months).
Although, let's establish the co-depency that goes on and enabling on SIL part, .. and the need for secrecy/privacy as they don't want this brother in law and his daughter up in their business.
There is a LOT that I could say to him . on my thoughts, but I try not to, so as to not cause a big family problem.
I responded to that, again, twisting things as to HIS and THEIR situation rather than address the ongoing issue/saga that is this end of the family. "I know it's a relief for your daughter".
Each time he is addressing something directed at the situation and his concern with regard to MIL . I am redirecting it back, on purpose . to what HE has chosen to do and his daughter .. rather than give him any fuel for the fire.
But I'm feeling a little like the village idiot doing so .. he is obviously wanting to talk about MIL's situation and I keep redirecting it and not answering the whole point of it.
He says this: "Your MIL .. she seems to think she'll be alright there, that her neighbors will look after her, .. She is being foolish with that line of thinking".
I responded, "yes neighbors are nice, .. they can help with things like visiting you, and grabbing a few groceries for you, .. that kinda thing, but they really aren't all that helpful when the need gets to great".
He went on to say: "MIL needs to change her thinking, she is being selfish with this refusal to allow SIL to take her to where she lives, or to allow any help".
Now he is singing my song, of course, but I can't dare chime in, but I'm also feeling a little like the village idiot to not speak to it.
I answered, (which left me just utterly frustrated), "Well I gotta get going with my day, enjoy the beautiful view there and you guys take care".
That did shut down the dialogue and so nothing I said was at all inflammatory or spoke to his questions/concerns .. and fueled any fire.
So fine, I moved on with my day, but left with a lot of frustration for not even really being able to speak to what he was talking about, especially since he was singing the song I've sung for so long.
So I moved on with my day, part of that was to go help out at the church, did that .. then go help with babies. Went to do that. Had to leave fairly early to return here for some things I needed to do.
When I was leaving dd's .. I get a text from SIL .. subsequent to the neuro visit today .. and basically ck'g in, 14 pages of review from the NP at the neuro doc today .. all to report that all is well. They see no cognitive issue that needs further testing, they said she can drive, that the rehab program is designed for those who have a clear case of dementia . that won't be necessary in her case. See no need for MRA or an EEG . no evidence of any seizure disorder ... didn't see anything conclusive of a "microbleed and/or changes that may be due to further strokes", Chalking up the confusion/disorientation to UTI that was found, on and on it went, basically sugar coating of all that had been the case with myself there on the scene front and center .. at the hospital (remember, no one else could be there, I HAD TO BE THE ONE THERE). Remember that.
Well here we are, less than a week later, and all is well with the world, apparently.
I blew a gasket, .. in a big way with SIL.
The cork blew off.
"You mean to tell me the hospital records don't note at all, that the OT dept had come thru there and done a screening where deficiencies were found .. you mean to tell me that isn't noted .. or are we chalking that up to the UTI .. and they feel she can drive again . really?, seriously? .. they don't mind the liability they just signed on for there, unbelievable .. and no record of any microbleed?, .. nothing found there, or changes to her brain? UNBELIEVABLE .. just unbelievable.
I'm here to tell you I was there on the scene, when the neuro doc came in and talked of a microbleed and the hospitalist talked of changes to her brain indicative there may have been further stroke damage . and the neuro she saw today doesn't think further investigation is warranted there, they don't see that, what hospital notes are they reading?!??!?!?
I suppose this NP at the neuro doc, did he also disagree with the fact PT finds it that she should be using a walker 100% of the time, that been undone also?
I went on to say to her (yes, I am blowing my stack and she can't even talk)
"Well alrighty then .. we're going to chalk it all up the UTI and all is well with the world, then tell me this .. why do we see so much OTHER impairment all the time .. outside of that event .. she refuses to take her meds consistently setting herself up for problems .. she refuses to eat right, or eat at all, refuses to hydrate as she should, doesn't follow through on recommendations from the doctors .. time management issues .. this is someone who TO ME, is NOT managing their life, and that has absolutely zero to do with the UTI and that event .. that's outside of the UTI event ..
So you tell me then, .. if all is well with the world and there is no cognitive impairment .. and it was nothing more than UTI .. you tell me then why the above and so much more .. routinely ... I guess if all is right with the world, then we're going to go on the assumption that MIL is then making the decision to be a drama queen then .. that's the only other conclusion I can come to, she is willfully refusing to take care of herself then .. it appears by what you're reporting that all is well . she has no impairment .. so fine .. then why the above ..
I went on to say to her:
You and I, we need to sit down and talk, face to face, without distraction, no babies, no geriatrics . no chores that have to be attended to, because I have had it. I can see that once again as in so many other cases .. my time spent at the hospital there, BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE COULD BE THERE, a collossal waste of my time .. and it won't happen again, I will clue ya that .. as is the case with so many doc visits and instructions handed out that have no follow through .. because why .....????.... certainly not because she's impaired in any way, you've gotten that report, she's fine . so then it's willfull resistance and I'm out .. I no longer support and want to be a part of all this set up and you and I will need to sit down and talk about what that's going to look like going forward, . there are going to have to be some substantial changes made .. this biz that MIL can be so selfish as to hand out directive that she knows what she needs to do and she will do it .. well see above, it doesn't happen, so I ask you again .. you tell me, impairment .. or willful resistance .. go ahead ... tell me ...which is it, her handing out that she knows what she has to do and she will do it, and then she doesn't .. and it landing my lap to manage is over .. so many visits to docs and no follow through on her part .. it's over. Look, .. I hope to have a few years here before my turn comes to be running the roads with my own ailing parents. Something is wrong with your mother and I'm out .. I'm done playing a part in all this.
I blew my stack at her.
Yes indeed this should be between DH and her, not me. But who gets the 14 pages of texts telling me that the world's course has been righted .. ME, that's who.
Of course, you all know the under pinnings of why I would've blown my stack in such a way Because it's as I said, SIL waltzes in, works like a dog, does everything for her mother but breathe .. and stabilizes things .. and then out she goes .. back to her life, leaving it in my lap. So of course, I blew .. don't sell me a pile of b/s and tell me it's sunshine. I'm not stupid.
At that, hung up on her, telling her before I did so that I am absolutely livid .. that either something is wrong with her mother and they better figure out what it is and address it one way or the other, or .. I'm going on the assumption she's playing b/s games with her willful resistance and I"m out.
And with that I hung up the phone on her.
She was probably just as shocked as she could be.
She texted me, .. a few mins later, "I'm sorry I hear your frustration .. I will talk with you later we have just lost power here (storm in the area) and I have to conserve my cell phone battery, I don't have a car charger with me, to go plug it in, but know that I hear your frustration, I will be talking with you".
I haven't even responded.
I am so livid.
Now mind you, the above, the conversation with the brother in law earlier this morning, probably didn't help my situation. It left me frustrated and feeling like I said, a village idiot, to not speak to the valid issues he was raising .. left me very frustrated.
Then later in the day to get 14 pages of texts from SIL reporting in from the neuro visit and apparently all is well with the world, there are no problems.
I was so livid I couldn't see straight. I still am.
It's fine for SIL to vent to you unless it becomes the 2 hour "you need to" list IF you have the time to listen and it doesn't become a constant repeat. It's probably a surprise that MIL is this bad because YOU have usually stepped in and fixed things by now. SIL is used to stabilizing things with your rapid help and input - and the hospital list was a real eye opener. My husband and his brother were really not prepared for MIL's hospitalization in January for UTI and the rather blunt discharge planner's comments that the cycle was part of end-stage Parkinson's and would do nothing except get worse (rehab might slow it down, but IT WAS PROGRESSING). For years, I researched progression of disease, printed options for treatments and the Voice Project and PT/OT specifically aimed at Parkinson's patients. Nope, not interested, not willing to do it or follow up with MIL or FIL. This board is filled with those of us who saw what was coming - were planners trying to make it a smooth transition with appropriate help that didn't involve sacrificing our own lives - but the board is also full of narcissistic elders and enabling adult children more than willing to sacrifice their own spouses and children to take care of the narcs. My mother the teacher said the worst parents were the ones she diagnosed as NMK. Not my kid. My husband argued with me that his parents would expect the hands on care. That the expectation was that MIL move in with us after FIL died (she actually had a plan in place until he lost his final job to insure the heck out of him and retire to live with one of her sons with the money when he died first). Your husband doesn't want to see a problem because then it has to be fixed. My husband is the same way. If you keep fixing the problem before it gets to him, it's not a problem. Notice how quickly it escalated when you stepped back. Yes, your marriage may have problems if you refuse to step back in. But if this breaks it, then your father is married to his mother, not YOU anyway. The idea is that you are not the one causing the problem. Age, infirmity, etc. for your MIL are causing the problem. I'm sure he has learned that avoiding problems in his business doesn't make them go away - but you've become an expert at making his life run smoothly. SO DID I. SO DID MANY OTHER SPOUSES AND SIGNIFICANT OTHERS ON THE BOARD. I told my husband finally that my understanding of marriage was that it was the primary obligation of spouses to put each other and their children first, and that honoring your parents meant that you helped them be in safe and loving care, not that you provided it all yourself. I've heard from more than one pastoral counselor that Honor Thy Father and Mother should be countered with Leave and Cleave. I think your marriage can survive this, but think of it like a tantrum with a toddler. You kept giving in and fixing it to keep the peace. You taught husband that you would fix it. Now you have to re-teach him that he needs to fix it with his sister and mother. We all care about you. You are doing a good job transitioning but it will take time. They don't believe that you are changing. The situation Didn't happen overnight. Husband, MIL and SIL won't believe that you woke up more mentally healthy because right now they are not. Be well, Dorker.
I never like the answer " you're getting older" to real symptoms like fatigue. But, that's not YOUR lookout.
SIL text'd tonite to ask if I had time to talk to her.
I almost hopped on here for reinforcement, before talking to her, fear I'd be asked to hop into this mess.
But I called her.
She must've just needed to unload some, maybe a debriefing of sorts as she kinda weathers this.
Nothing earth shattering. Just .. I guess .. wanted to "talk". We all know how hard it is for her to talk to her brother (and he wasn't around this evening, she didn't ask .. he was in a church meeting).
I didn't have the heart to (does that mean I am struggling with detaching) .. to just toss her off with a statement of, "Well that's nice .. be sure and pass that to your brother .. gotta go now, gotta go watch grass grow". I just didn't have the heart to cut her off like that.
She talked some about a couple of other family members facing their own health struggles and the worry there (I'm aware of those people and their issues). She then went into the cardio visit today as follow up with MIL. No issues found cardio-wise (MIL has never had cardio issues, other than A-fib). Said they are to see the neuro doc tomorrow. She talked that her mother is doing better, but still tires so easily, that her mother had asked the nurse, "but why am I always so tired", the nurse answered, "Because you are 87 yo, your body is tired".
I did interact with SIL on the respect of, "your mother is far too isolated .. her refusal to interact with *peers* because they are *old people* and she doesn't want to go hang out with all those *old people*, hell she is OLD. SIL said in response to that: "Yes, it's so hard for her to get out and do much of anything".
I ceased that opportunity (as if I'm listened to), "yes .. she will have a long hard road to get back to any functional level if she can .. since she's so bad off she is a virtual shut in .. and needs your supervision to maintain being well, . she has a long long road ahead if she's able to achieve it".
SIL mentioning the doc has put her on 10 mg of the Lasix vs the 20 per day that was previously the case, MIL expressing that 20 .. is too much back and forthing to the bathroom for her and her mobility issues. I did interact there, "she's her own worst enemy ... she doesn't take her pills". SIL had already expressed that it takes several reminders for her mother to take her pills.
See. Even though interacting with her, is a slip back .. it feels like, as to detachment, the above is big/huge. Because SIL will complain and make excuses and minimize as to the situation time and again. Doesn't matter what I say .. that's how it goes. BUT .. at least she didn't, not this time, get commiseration with me in my saying, "yes it's a sad situation . wish she would be able to do better". Nope .. she got the cold hard facts.
I do realize nothing I say matters .. and so it's almost counter-productive to even give her the time of day and talk to her. But this is a person that I do love and care about, SIL (even though her minimizing things .. and making excuses at every turn .. infuriates me), .. I don't have the heart to just shut her out .. she obviously needed to vent/talk, debrief whatever you want to call it.
That information SHOULD HAVE BEEN VENTED to her brother. But as I've made pretty obvious here, .. he is just kinda ambivalent with it all .. otherwise occupied and that's someone else's circus/monkeys.
No, she didn't ask me to step/fetch .. asked when I'd be with the babies again, answered tomorrow. Asked how they are all doing, that she enjoyed seeing them the other day .. and we finished our conversation and that was that.
No, I wasn't suggesting SHE be the one to check out facilities, and upon thinking about that, I see that this is not going to happen, anyway. MIL will likely go back home with more problems and dramas and I feel for Dorker who may just not be able to detach. Her hubby and his sister SHOULD make the decisions. Period. Sounds like hubby has completely checked out, and will do whatever SIL wants.
Just--this is so close to home as to how it went in the end with DH's father..DH's sister just couldn't do everything for him. and once he was denied driving privileges..well, I had to step in. It was only supposed to be a few weeks, until DH and SIL got in home aides set up. Which they never did. They were both MORE than happy to let me get 100% immersed in FIL's care and let if go at that. Suddenly, I was PT caring for FIL and PT caring for my own daddy who was dying. It was a terrible time. If I so much as whispered a complaint about the amt of time I was wasting, sitting around waiting for FIL to bathe or worse yet, forcing him to do so, I was cut off at the knees. Hubby couldn't stomach the smells of his dad's place, he would literally vomit, so I was down and dirty with the feces splattered toilet and seat of the car (my own included).
It wore me completely out. I WANTED to be with MY dad, not my hubby's. I tried and tried to get DH and his sis to make SOME kind of decision--ANY kind, and they never did. I had a TON of work and zero authority to do anything. I can't even remember how many times FIL would call me at midnight, or later complaining "I have a fever of 104" and I would go quickly to his place and take him to the hospital for a checkup. Turns out, his fevers were 100.4, hence the "hundred and four" as he'd describe them. That was the "cutoff point" he had to be admitted to the hospital. I never did teach him to read that digital thermometer.....
In retrospect, he should have been in a Nursing Home a year before he died. He sucked the life out of me, and while I know he was grateful, I was criticized and minimalized by the whole family. If I made dinner for him, hubby would complain it wasn't nutrient dense enough. If I took take-out, then I was lazy. Hubby did absolutely nothing. IF he went with my to FIL's place and it smelled, he'd sit by the open door and try not to vomit. If it smelled OK he'd pepper dad with stupid questions and never once brought up "professional care". My hubby is a good man , but a total Dr. No Shot, meaning, he will NOT do controversy or contention in any way, shape or form.
I REALLY hope Dorker CAN detach---her life is so controlled by this person.
And again, no, I didn't look at NH's for my FIL. Wasn't my place.
Your post about MILs deck caused me to have a flashback!
My Mother was a cross between your "adventurous" Mother and your MIL.
My Mother was a faller but still living at home. Mother's deck had become a mess. Oak leaves, twigs, neglected plants. I agreed to clean the deck if she sat in a chair, did not get up and stay 1 step behind me giving instructions.
The cleaning begins. I hear a thump. Then I am grabbed around the waist and we are going down.
No, she didn't stay seated in chair. Yes she was one step behind me but I didn't know it. She stepped in a large empty flower pot, stumbled and took me down with her. No one was hurt but the "conversation" that followed was none too pretty. All because of a (insert curse word/words) deck.
Medicaid can be a mess to get started. Mis steps can be made by person in charge of trying to get it lined out that can prolong the approval process. You DO NOT want to be the person in charge of that task!
I am here watching this all play out and cheering you along with the others!
You seem between a rock and a hard place. You said you were disheartened and angry, and I understand that feeling. Plus, the fact that this assault on your esteem (not being heard, and then criticized) continues from both your hubs (betrayal) and Sil (using you), makes your situation unique, and I believe dangerous to anyone's mental health.
The tough love approach may not be something you yourself can use, even though detaching with love would benefit you in the long run, it may be too uncomfortable for you. There outta be a law that other people cannot use you as the sacrifice, or punish you by withholding their approval if you choose not to meet their expectations.
When your dH and Sil were busy, or did not want to deal, what did they do? They played the phone game: Went to voice messages, didn't get the call or message, phone was off, out with my family, busy, etc. When you were at DD's, what did you do? Took the call that Mil was in the E.R., then participated in 'helping'. Did anyone call them names for not answering their phones?
Would you consider that it is at all possible, Dorker, that something else is causing your distress? Some possible ideas come to mind, but this may or may not fit your situation:
1) You fear the loss of relationship, with Hubs and Sil. So you need to please them.
2) You fear the loss of some control, and if you let go, these two significant people (or 3 people-including Mil), your hubs and Sil would either reject you (they have); or they would step up efforts to control you and your time, using you (they have).
3) Either way, you would continue to feel disrespected, and a loss of relationship.
4) You are still angry, and that is not good for you.
Can you go on a Summer Women's retreat through the church?
SIL will call and you will direct her to DH. DH will lean on you as he has the family business "can't you just ...." They will see your not helping as unreasonable and mean. "It's just to get her to the dr" "It's to help her get...." and this will become a fight between you and DH.
As my friends and i have matured into the sandwich generation - we have seen this over and over. Women are still expected to be the primary caregiver - even of the MIL, especially if the women are not working full time. (Of course having kids at home means you are not doing anything!!)
This becomes a fight between husband who thinks it is unreasonable for the wife not to help MIL and the wife who has too much to juggle and just cannot do it all anymore. Husband sees "can't" as "I don't want to" and doesn't understand.
It leads to problems between the spouses. Unless, you are crafty. I was told about a woman who worked part time and had teenage children. Her husband and out of town siblings of course assumed she would continue to run MIL to dr appointments and all the rest of the crazy. MIL could still drive. MIL had a hospital stay and was no longer comfortable driving. So this escalated the number of things DIL was on the hook for. Husband and siblings didn't want to hear about it. So, one day, DIL "wrenched her back" trying to help MIL out of her chair and was out of commission for weeks - she couldn't drive, couldn't move without great pain. Not only did DH have to juggle to haul MIL everywhere - he had to juggle to haul his kids to all of their events. (i love it!)
It didn't take long before DH and siblings basically forced mom into an assisted living.
Dorker - maybe you will have to throw your back out when the stuff starts coming your way again. I fear it will.
midkid -I hope you are not suggesting dorker should check out facilities and "get" mil into one. That is sil's and dh's job IMO and works against detaching.
Guess I mis-read your post and got the feeling that you were seeming to be feeling better/acting stronger---it was a compliment, I hope I didn't offend.
Such an ongoing drama, reading the daily posts and wondering what in the world is going to happen next.
You still sound VERY involved for someone who has "detached" but I understand how hard it is to break old habits, and part of you, like it or not, is still VERY attached to the drama queen MIL. The texts with SIL, the arguments with DH---when you "detach", you walk away. Your MIL is still keeping you on your toes. But you DO seem less inclined to be as "problem solving" as you used to be. It's a long road.
Your MIL isn't going to change. All the satellites around her have to. Sounds like DH HAS detached and is sick of all of it. SIL keeps stirring the pot.
Have you checked into any facilities for her to move to? Or is she home now? SIL will be leaving and if MIL is still in her home, you will IMMEDIATELY be pulled back into the drama, front and center. I don't think your family respects or believes you when you say "I'm out". I know my hubby and he expects me to handle EVERYTHING. Except for his mother, since she truly, really hates me.
I'd like to hear that you got MIL placed and although she is going to be a horrible patient, she'd be someone else's problem, and not yours.
I've been around this block before, and I was a professional caregiver as my career. A client such as your MIL---I'd "fire her" in one day. I had some tough clients, but your MIL is in a category all by herself. You KNOW that she's not "OK", by any means? I doubt if even in home caregivers would be a good fit for her.
As always--best of luck. I know you're using this forum as your daily journal to vent and that is OK. We all get it.
Maybe that is what will have to transpire for it to finally take a direction that it needs to be. I don't really know, not up to me.
It's said that no one ever changes a behavior unless that behavior then becomes a problem for them personally. No on ever quit smoking because someone hounded them to death .. nope. They quit smoking because it was a self-motivator to do so, they got tired of not being able to breathe, their clothes stinking, the cost .. their health, whatever the case may be. But it was self-driven. No one ever quit anything because someone else said so. They quit .. because they were so pained themselves the results of their actions they became self-driven to do things differently.
Maybe that's what this whole thing is gonna take.
No, no one has the answers or has looked into it all, as to how that would work. She will manage, remember, .. and that's been the mantra .. that has been allowed to stand, status quo. All the while I've been in the b'ground hopping up and down that her needs are increasing and my requests go unheeded. Nope. Hasn't been looked into.
No, I wouldn't be in any financial position to fund that, nor would SIL. Even if we were, .. I do understand that it can be so costly that most folks cannot, absorb that.
I too feel as you do, .. SIL shouldn't bite this off and bring MIL into her home. It isn't fair to her, nor to her husband who didn't ask to have a mental illness and does the very best that he can to manage it, and is a kind/generous patient person. My thoughts are that won't work, in the long haul.
But again .. I have no say so. My input obviously means zilch. That's been made real apparent. Unless I'd like to remain the stepper/fetcher and zip it as to input.
Not interested in that role.
They will have to find their own way in all of this. As some have said here .. they may bump their noggins a few times and do the wrong thing .. and I have to be willing to sit back and not put my hand up and declare that they "STOP" and do it this way ... it's for them to figure out. And yes, even making wrong turns in it all, as in the above, SIL taking MIL into her home, if it goes that way.
I suspect that SIL will do all in her power, to minimize the whole scenario in an effort to yet again, waltz back to her life 1K miles away and it will be lather/rinse/repeat .. more of the same.
Only this time, they will see .. and I will make it clear if takes that direction, I am no longer the point person here and MIL will either have to have some 3rd party involvement (it's no longer going to suffice this whole "I will manage, I know what I need to do and I will do it", or the other one, "She's so stubborn what am I gonna do tie her up an drag her out of here".
If that's the choice they take going forward, they will find out .. that they will no longer have me as backup . and calling up on me, to "can you go see about ______________ and mother has a doc appt on ________________ can you get her there, and she needs ___________", that's over. SIL will be told, "I can't do that, call your brother".
I know this pattern, seen it up close and personal, far too long. Brother (DH) will then call me, "sister is calling that mother needs _____________ and _____________ and she needs you to get her to a doc appt ..", on and on it goes.
I will have his wrath to deal with when I refuse, but refuse I will. Unless it is an absolute emergency of a situation. And believe it or not, an "emergency of a situation" can be so very subjective as to who thinks what. So .. they need to also be aware of that.
I will remind him that he was told that I no longer support her staying in her own home as an option and that is what "my non support" looks like. It's now up to the two of them.
MIL's refusal to allow 3rd parties to help .. (has been the case all along, how very selfish of her and them that they allow that as status quo) .. doesn't then mean it once again falls in my lap .. now that SIL waltzes away back to her life, having minimized the severity of it all.
Resolve to detach .. getting stronger every day.
Here's a concern, though. If MIL falls and injures herself (maybe I should write "when" and not "if") and can no longer live at home, I just hope that you and your DH don't fund the facility. Even if it's split with SIL, it will still be a substantial drain. Sounds like she should qualify for Medicaid, but perhaps the issue will be what type of facility. And what MIL will accept might not be covered by Medicaid.
Personally, I think it's really unfair for SIL to take MIL to live with her. Why? Because of the way MIL treats SIL's husband. The ideal scenario would be for MIL to be in a facility near SIL, but not living WITH SIL.
I didn't ask how MIL is, I asked how is SIL, "how is geriatric duty going for you?". Felt a sense of obligation to least check in and show some interest.
SIL responded that they have this doc appt and that doc appt and are awaiting the PT to begin and haven't heard from OT but have reported that to the powers-that-be and awaiting resolution on that.
She then said that she is cooking (DUH) and MIL is eating (DUH) and regaining her strength but that she tires easily. Reported that she is having to remind her mother repeatedly to take her meds at each set time.
To me, that last paragraph .. what it says to me, is the followng: That is precisely what I have been outlining for several months, your mother doesn't eat unless the food is put in front of her, hydration same issue .. she doesn't take her medications as directed unless it is via reminder/assistance.
Clearly, .. a need for mores supervised care.
I didn't ask SIL (don't want to know the answer). But if I did, you can bet this would be her takeaway from that last paragraph:
"Hoping to get her stronger and *hope* she can get back to where she was .. and she really really doesn't want to have to leave her home, let's *hope* we can all get her there".
Like I said, I didn't ask, didn't want to hear it.
I only responded, "Sounds like you've got quite a list in front of you, talk to ya later".
And that was that.
*Detaching*
The whole Medicaid and qualification for same, and whether our state does so and if so, how does it work. I am actually taking a bit of solace if you will, even a slice of victory, in the fact that as I back out of this and detach, I won't be taking up the torch to do the digging/investigation into how the above works and what to do.
I'm certain there are "i's" to dot and "t's" to cross and "x, and y and z" that has to be seen to, and I would be mired in it knee deep .. and listing for siblings all that has to be done to work towards that end .. only to watch it all turn in another direction and frustrate/confound me, for having done the leg work for them, all for naught. I have no doubt that would be the case. It's been the case for far too long.
I won't be doing the work to figure the ins and outs of the above. And it does .. in a way .. give me a sense of patting myself on the back. Somebody needs to do so, but it certainly doesn't have to be me.
I was on the front, at one time, as to figuring out how to get MIL a disability waiver for her garbage as well as her mail. She has a long long driveway and it was too much of a problem for her to drag her garbage can all the way to the end of her driveway for pickup .. as well as to access her mailbox. I was on that front in years past, and got all that resolved for them. The garbage .. she has a special exception and the garbage men have to stop (rather than use their apparatus that grabs a garbage can from the side of the street), they have to literally get out of their truck and walk to the end of her driveway and retrieve it for her, take it out there and have it dumped and then return it to where they found it.
Same with her mail. It was formerly retrieved from a mailbox at the end of that long driveway. She now has an exception to that also, and has had for quite some time. The mail man, rather than drop her mail in the box at the street (as is the case with all her neighbors) has to come to her front porch where a mailbox has been installed and drop her mail into that box This enabled that she no longer had to traverse that long driveway for the above.
The former me, I'd of been all over the above and doing the leg work on it all. The new me, the one that is backing out of this whole scene. They can figure it out, .. they can do as I would, contact the Area Agency on Aging .. and go from there, if they so choose. Or not.