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I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.


We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.


It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.


This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.


Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.


What are her reasons?


In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.


A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.


She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.


If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".


Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".


Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"


Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".


Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".


Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".


Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".


Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.


So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.


BUT ....


The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.


Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.


The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:

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Dear Dorker,
My Mama had Covid19 in her M.C. She is fine now & we had the 1st outdoor visit yesterday. I was so behind on this thread that I just now caught up. I'm so sorry to hear about MIL. I'm sorry your Dad is having so much trouble too. From the very beginning your MIL has driven us all crazy at times. You made your lives and hers so real to us. Thank you for that part of your story and know that I always was rooting for the old girl. We all loved her too! Grace & Peace, Love, Boots
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Dorker, I get the feeling you are right where you need to be. In a caring middle ground: not too distanced & certainly not enmeshed.

I believe the enmeshed have a lot more work to do when grieving. Like their life circle has a massive hole blown out of one section... a lot of rebuilding to do.

I saw it take 3 years for my own SIL to properly heal after FIL's passing. She was very close. Now she has that daily interaction & involvement with my MIL. It's just her nature to be very close to family I suppose.

Your SIL will indeed need to reshape her life without her Mother. She doesn't even have a cemetery to visit (which some find very helpful). Maybe she could plant a rose bush as a memorial in her own garden? Somewhere to sit or look out on & 'talk/connect' to Mother.
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Just some observations ... got a text from SIL . something to the tune of "so hard .. the last 17 years .. I talked to mom every single day . sometimes more than once . and now she's not there".

My observation there . first off . that would be the marker in time of when MIL's husband died, . 17 years ago. So I guess, .. after the death of SIL's dad .. 17 years prior .. she then took it upon herself to reach out to her mom every single day going forward and sometimes more than once daily.

I think, too enmeshed. Maybe that's in part why their mom never really blended into .. a life absent her husband? And what that looks like? How to navigate those waters? I don't know.

Admirable I guess on one hand .. that a daughter would be that engaged in her mom's world. But I don't happen to think it was optimal . not for her mom . and certainly not for SIL. SIL was so enmeshed in her mom's life that I don't think she knew where to separate .. and that was evidenced in so many ways in the waning years . and her mom's failing health . and the failure of SIL to see it . objectively.

I don't know, .. maybe I'm wrong and some will inform me. I think it's just not all that healthy to be in touch with your parents once you're an adult . every single solitary day and sometimes more than once.

It's like SIL now feels kinda adrift without an anchor .. in the loss of her sole mission in life, to keep her mom as happy as could be possible.

On the other hand .. we have me dealing with my dad's situation and yes indeed . that same bond . the bond that SIL/MIL shared, is not there . with me and my dad. Certainly a factor. But I don't call my dad daily . nor do I make it my personal mission to find out why he didn't get that specific milk shake he might like, or the throat lozenge promised him . or .. why they aren't come as speedily as he'd like . .. or why they toss his dirty clothes by the hamper and not into the hamper .. all complaints .. (those and more) that I listen to him drone on about . when I do call . which is typically a couple of times a week, not daily.

I listen .. let him vent .. some ... but then I just say "oh well, hope it gets better" . or something similar and move on with my day. I don't then make it my mission to fire up the phone lines where he is to find out the specifics of all the complaints and try to rectify them.

Does that make me mean/uncaring? Or .. does that make me not as "enmeshed". I think the latter.

Dad at present is this side of a dx of pneumonia and a UTI and on IV antibiotics .. and .. last I talked to him 2 days ago . it seemed that he is turning a slight corner .. in that he is at least now willing/able to force a few bites of food, where previously he wouldn't even try .. and so .. at least he has made that slight, ever so slight improvement.

Dad fussing . that PT had come for him (of course they did . you're in a rehab facility) .. and him most pizzed about that . that they don't seem to understand that he is ill, .. doesn't feel like getting up .. and to the point that he got ugly with staff there, as he related the story to me.

The differences .. now this side of what went on with MIL .. and my approach .. and seeing the dichotomy.

My approach: Dad they're right . you can't just lay there, that's the worst thing you can do .. maybe they'll modify some of what is expected of you . while you weather getting better . but certainly laying there and doing nothing . will only make thing a lot worse".

Him then admitting that yes . they did modify the expectations ..

What would SIL have done . she'd of burned up the phone line there, to make certain PT is aware that he is ill . and that modifications should be made . and then follow up to make certain same had transpired .

Me . I just cautioned him .. ya gotta move, you can't just lay there, and then I let it go and moved on with my day.
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Very sorry Dorker for your family’s loss of a beautiful generous woman. That’s not who she was these last years but that’s who you honored & introduced us to. You were a blessing to her & to your family, even when you stepped back & made them step forward. They got a gift even in that. Your writing is witty, detailed & easy to read, thanks for the knowledge & the laughter. Look forward to continue reading about your next phase & trials with dad.
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Dorker, my deepest sympathy to you and your family with the passing of your MIL. What a journey it has been. You all have done a wonderful job.

I will keep you all in my thoughts and prayers as you continue to oversee the care of your Father.

I have followed your story since day one and have learned so much about boundaries, when to say NO, and how to address the tough subject of "you need round the clock medical care. I can no longer do this."

With great admiration, I hope you will continue to write and share your journey with us.
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Dear Dorker, my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family during this difficult time. On the one hand I am So sorry for your loss of such a Wonderful and Loving Mother, and on the other hand I am glad that your MIL is now released from this life and is now on the other side, in Heaven, happy and free of her pain and the mental decline.
I have been absent from the forum for many months now, my time in the trenches of parental care is several years in our review mirror, but we went through many simular things, the revolving door of care and decline, and I remember well the mental and physical exhaustion that you and your family have been through, and for that I am So sorry!

Please know that your pain, and that of your SIL will improve with time, grieving takes time, but life will resume a new normal filled with the Love of your kids and grandkids, and now we become the elders of the family, Ugh! Lol! Sorry!

I can only imagine the frustration and sadness of your Dad, locked away in NH with this damn Covid and it's restrictions. He is where he needs to be for now, and his wife really should be her daughter's responsibility, let us pray that she is at least seeing to her on a weekly basis and making sure she has groceries, but she is definitely not your problem! His life going forward will sort itself out according to the Drs direction, so no need worrying about it right now.

You have been an Amazing Daighter/DIL in all this, we as a Caregiving Community have all learned So Much through your trials and tribulations, and for that I Thank You!

Your Detail oriented and Entertaining style of writing has given us all a lift in our spirits as we have followed along in your saga, and you have engaged and brought together so many of us caregivers, so Well Done Girl! We will all wait for the book that is sure to come, as so many of us have recommended! No really, you are a very good writer, perhaps a change of subject? "DORKER THE LATER YEARS", LOL!

I know you have so often brightened my day these past few years, that is for sure! I know that your journey isn't yet over, but I am happy that you have your families support to help you through this, and believe me, it will get better Eventually!
You take care, and peace be with you! Stacey B
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(cont'd)

to go partake of some activities offered in that setting, . and as I knew he'd answer .. not only no H377 no .. not gonna be of that persuasion . never has been.

I guess .. if I'd put on that hat, to take her and her loneliness on . .and make it a point to visit/go to lunch . whatever .. then I could alleviate some of that. But .. and truly I don't hold any grudges against her, . she is what she is .. and life is what it is ... and she could've long ago taken a different path to foster a relationship with what were her husband's two offspring . she chose not to.

So I really feel absolutely zero compunction to provide any remedy to that sad saga.

Yes, she has her daughter .. (lives out of town) .. and does come into town .. (owns a beach house not far from here) .. but doesn't make it a point to make her mom her priority seemingly. Have covered that ground ad nauseum here. She . her daughter, of her own mental frailties .. and her mom one who can grate on her like fingernails on a chalkboard .. she .. does come . but not frequently enough if my dad is asked .. she should .. accd'g to him . take more initiative to help her mother . so he would have it.

Stepmom has a sister about her same age .. actually lives within blocks of her .. that sister will come over occasionally to drop off a casserole .. but she pulls in the d/w .. summons stepmom to her car to come get the casserole . and off she goes again . Doesn't stay and visit .high strung sort that can't sit still .. is off to other *to do's* on her list.

So stepmom . yes . is lonely . and this saddens my dad. Makes him weepy at times.

As I told him: "Dad you can't fix it . you know as well as I do that her daughter can only take her mom in small doses ... and if stepmom won't go engage with some group somewhere of other seniors .. then you can't fix it ... you have to let it go".

I guess that whole "let it go" thing . that works for those of us who are able bodied and can go busy ourselves with other things. He isn't . lays up in a hospital bed . day after day after day .. with nothing but time to ponder .. all the misery.

I have zero interest in remedy of that issue ..

She isn't a mean person .. (well I might argue she was when we were kids and under her authority, but that was a l.o.n.g. time ago). She .. my whole adult life .has just been indifferent .. is what I'd term it .. and distanced/detached .. and so .. so be it.

There is no compunction in me to try to foster any relationship there.

As my husband said of it all, fully aware of the dysfunction that has gone on thru the years .. "I guess if your dad should go first .. we'd never hear another thing about your stepmom .. maybe one day hear from someone that she died .. but .. she'd be so absent any presence in our existence".

Yep . that about sums that up.

My dad ... I can't believe he can continue living the way he is . and I don't expect he will. I mean that cancer he was fighting .. in fact, before the bottom fell out, those tumors were all but diminished .. that was months ago . but whatever chemo he was on ... he was to have been on it for life (his choice, he could stop if he wished) .. and every 3 weeks . dosed with more chemo ...

That was months ago . and there's been no follow up as to what that cancer is doing . has it returned? Who knows. Doesn't matter .. he is far too compromised at this point to even go to an oncology appt to investigate it, much less withstand any treatment were they to find an issue. It's been shelved.

I think his hope that he'd get to the point he could ambulate enough to go to ALF .. and do more strengthening . and get more mobility in that setting .. and then return to his home ...

It's becoming less and less of an eventuality .. as I kinda thought it might.
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I think it won't surprise me at all, if I were to get a call that he has passed.

Him? Not at all on his radar, . even as his health deteriorates. As he said to me, "I think I'm regressing here, getting worse and not better".

This guy who won't even sign a DNR.

I think of MIL, who did have a DNR .. and her final stages of life and how absolutely frail she was. The thought of someone having hopped on her to do CPR .. she'd of broken .. she'd of had broken bones. And for what?

My dad, . I haven't laid eyes on him in months .. locked away due to Covid . can't get in .. to put a visual on him. But from the sound of his frail . breathless ... struggle, too weak to talk much .. and the fact his weight is reported at 139 .. probably less now . that was a week or so ago. The thought of them .. administering CPR to him .. same result. And why?

I guess, easy for me to say with a life that is viable and hope springs eternal in those who maybe don't have that viability.

I don't see him recovering to any level of real functionality .. I just don't. He .. I think holds out hope for just that.

Though when I asked him yesterday at his comment about regressing/going b'wards .. not getting better getting worse, .. asked him why does he think that is . and his response: "All I do is sit in the chair, or lay in bed .. I don't have much appetite to speak of .. and so not eating well really . and I don't do anything".

Me: Dad are you able to get up on your walker and just walk around the halls some .. not w/PT but just to get up and move?

Dad: "No .. I'm able to go out into the hall in my wheelchair and amble around, but they have to help me to get into and out of the wheelchair and I feel like I'm always asking for something or other, so I don't bother them w/asking them to help me with that, .. they don't want me on the walker unless they are with me to assist, .. so it has to be the wheelchair .. and I guess I just don't wanna bother them . so I sit here .. in the chair, or lay up in the bed most of the time

I didn't say it to him . and not a lot that can be done about it, . but that is only exacerbating his atrophy .. making it worse.

I haven't approached the whole DNR piece again with him .. did so months back and he was adamant he wants every measure taken . wants to live. I even explained to him at that time the horrors of that, . at EOL ... and what can result .. and he didn't even hear me ... for nixing that whole DNR thing as any notion of a plan.

Not my battle to wage .. won't go there ..

I guess, .. do some people go to their cloud kicking and screaming . wanting to stay here? I guess ..

MIL .. she waited and waited for that cloud ... beckoning it ... all along .. out of the other side of her mouth saying she wants to "live" .. and the other side of her mouth .. "why won't that cloud come for me". At least she had some sense of the reality of the whole thing . in that she's lived her life and her time is drawing near.

Doesn't seem to be the case with my dad. Do people .. finally come to the conclusion themselves . this isn't gonna get better .. and maybe begin to look at what may be their EOL and prepare for same maybe mentally, and otherwise ... or do they never .. they just get on that cloud kicking and screaming to stay here .. the whole way.

He gets weepy at times . when I talk to him ... more so .. from the stand point of his wife .. who is .. and has been . in their home alone . and recognizes so he says (this is relative new on her part) .. that she is alone and isolated .. (doesn't wish to change it) .. and that her mind is slipping as a result. Day in and day out of loneliness ...

He says he may need to hire a c'giver to come .. at least for her, . just as nothing else, company for her.

Asked of him would she be of the inclination to go join a church somewhere, to maybe be a part of a group of folks and socialize there, or a senior center ..
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Oh Dorker,

Well, poor dad. I think that the night in the hospital is one of the worst experiences you can have. They short staff, under the assumption that people actually SLEEP during the night there (I, for one, am completely unable to sleep as hospitals are NOISY as all get out and if I'm in the hospital, then I am sick and probably in pain.

And, yes, the struggle to overcome language barriers is hard. My German is fine, my Spanish is lacking.

Your dad is very, very sick. You have accepted that he is probably not going to ever leave a hospital type setting, right? For all the chatter about setting things up at home--it really cannot happen. And he's playing the self deluding game of trying to seem coherent and organized--my FIL did that until he simply couldn't any more. The night before he died he was talking about his upcoming trip to Spain. Yet, his doc was completely honest with him and said he was not ever going to rehab to the point he could even live alone, much less travel. Dad just didn't want to hear it.

I'm going to give both your dad and my FIL kudos for hanging in there and doing the best they can for as long as they can and staying active and vital. You've had dad out of your life for so long, this is kind of a tender mercy, you have been able to mend fences about as much as you could expect.

But--just from the outside, reading about him...he's slowly slipping away. It would take a few more miracles for him to get back to any ability to go home.

I wouldn't talk about that with him, only in passing, b/c deep down, he knows that he's almost 'done'.

You've had such a rocky road for the last few years. Seems like things come in bunches, doesn't it? I went straight from EOL care for FIL to EOL care for Daddy. It took a couple years to feel 'normal-ish'.

Hope you are taking care of yourself and DH. He will be surprised at the grief he will feel.

((Hugs)) stay safe--take care of YOU.
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Call the day nurse or nurse manager on duty. If no appropriate apology & action, yes, go to the DON.

'Elevate foot' should already be in the care plan, so it will highlighted that pt & relative report it wasn't done on night shift. This should get handed over to night staff to improve.

It must be awful for your Dad to feel so powerless & very hard in the middle of the night to think straight - but if *talking* is not working, he needs to try something else. I'm not blaming him - the CNAs should try to understand & offer alternatives.

Does he have a pen & paper? Can it be writen in big letters, *please elevate foot*. Many times I've seen notes taped to tables that patients can point to. Especially if hard to understand/non-verbal or in his case, short of breath.

Regarding SIL - I do feel for her. She is not one to sit still & ponder is she? Likes to be busy & useful in thoughts & deeds. Once her DH is home I'm sure she will have her purpose restored, arranging in home rehab & therapies, encouraging his recovery.

The Mamma sized hole in her life will be huge indeed. (The closer the relationship, the bigger the hole). I really hope it is not all filled with her DH's care & she starts to cultivate some interests & hobbies of her own. I have an awful feeling the sailing may not be smooth - a rough sea containing more stokes (& their effects) for poor BIL may be on the horizon. (With more heartbreak as a petite female caring for a stroke effected larger male, NH placement can be swifter than the other way around).

I hope BIL gets home, fully recovers & they get a many more years of shared interests.
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Speaking of my dad. I did, after a few days of not talking to him .. did give him a call.

Sounds like last night was supremely rough.

Pressure sore on his foot was very painful ... sounds like the night staff, to hear him tell it, are all foreigners who don't understand or speak english ... and so his trying to impart to them his painful foot .. and the need to elevate it .. wasn't translating well.

That and his BP .. he indicates dropped out .. and he felt short of breath ...

Says that he asked for the nurse .. via the CNA's .. and the nurse did come in . but also a foreign individual .. didn't seem to understand what his issues were, .. so essentially did nothing to help him. All this at 2:30 in the AM, he tells me.

He is V.E.R.Y. hard to understand. This man that used to be so articulate and clearly spoken has now turned to . his words come out garbled .. and faint .. and breathless ...

I don't know if the language barrier did indeed impede any ability to help him. I can't know, .. not there on site.

BP has returned to a more normal state for him as of this morning's vital check . he notes.

But weak .. weaker than is his normal weak state .. likely from a really painful restless night.

I did put in a call to the day nurse, as my dad does get along well with her .. and stated he had noted these issues in talking to her, and she was going to check into it. Left a message for the day nurse.

Torn .. was going to possibly call the DON about last night's upheaval . but thought I'd try that firsts .. with the day nurse, as I've talked to her numerous times prior.
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Oh I'll be here on AC for sure, .. my saga with my own dad awaits and the trials there.

Nothing new to report on that front. As a matter of fact, I haven't talked to my dad for a few days, to check in, probably need to do so.

Never much of any good news there.

On the MIL front .. I do feel somewhat sorry for SIL.

She will find her equilibrium eventually. But as I heard her on the phone yesterday with her brother. She feels kind of at loose ends and lost .. her words, .. "I feel like almost my entire adult life has been spent .. with the whole .. "now what do I need to do about mother, who do I call, let me follow up on ________, what doctor do I call about ______, just .. it's been my mission/purpose .. daily it seems for almost all my adult life, seems like, and it's just .. suddenly it abruptly stops and I feel kind of lost".

She's got her husband who is, at present but soon to be released, in a rehab setting from the minor stroke he suffered as all this was ongoing with MIL .. he'll be fine .. he only has some residual leg issues .. as was the case last time .. a few years back and his minor stroke.

She's got him to hone her focus in on . .and begin the top spinning and whirligigs a plenty .. and she will. Just, . .for right now, he's in a medical setting and being attended to there .. and so she's home alone ... and just kind of lost and at loose ends.

DH ... he is doing okay with the loss of his mom. He is grateful for the chance to have visited w/her in person . and the fact she was lucid enough (in and out) to engage. Misses her .. but he's okay.
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Dorker, I'm so thankful for your transparency these last years. It's given me another person's experience to view while I dealt with mthr's decline and death. I feel so much better now knowing my own experience with EOL issues during the pandemic are not unique. Your mother in law had a good death. What a blessing and what a relief.

I hope to follow your dad's adventures in the coming months. I think we will all have so much to learn from that experience as well. You are a living parable. Thank you for showing us your life. <3
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Hugs, Dorker, and prayers and condolences for your family. Without a doubt, your MIL was loved, and thank you for sharing your journey with us. Praying for your father and BIL too.
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MidKid, so many excellent points!
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Sorry for your loss Dorker.
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Dorker---

I would say I am sorry for MIL's passing, but I'm happy for her. She is out of this life that had become nothing but a prison for her.

You repeatedly talked of her kindness and love for your family--be so grateful you had THAT, a lot of us don't get it.

I AM sorry SIL didn't make it, but I do believe that people take with them the memories from this life, into the next. SIL will come to terms and MIL is out of pain and sadness.

I thank you for sharing her story, good and bad for all of us to learn from.

God bless you in the coming days as you accept this new norm. 2020 has been a weird year, for sure.

You can rest assured you did everything in your power to makes her life as independent as was possible. No regrets.

Be gentle with your DH. He is going to have a hard time, so let him feel what he feels until he has sorted this out.

Prayers for your family.
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(cont'd)

on his part, .. that his wife .. her bus is driven .. at least to some degree in her demented thinking .. and the consternation that all brings about ..

Yet he still . leans towards a return to home . and c'givers in place.

So be it.

I think it's a disaster in the making. I know when I would go over there previous to these months he's been out of the home in all his maladies . the consternation/arguing/hostility that goes on in that setting, is one that I'm not at all comfortable spending any time around.

That isn't gonna miraculously find improvement in his return there.

In talking with him . about the obstacles being in the home is going to present .. about the consternation in her .. and hostility .. he speaks of "all I know to do hon .. is to return to the home with the c'givers I'll need and that's gonna hopefully settle her down some with all her constant haranguing".

Me; Yea dad .. she wants you home . but she doesn't have any clarity on the fact that you are really essentially pretty helpless and .. seeing to your dietary needs, . your mobility limitations . your needs for medical care .. all it's going to take to care for you . at the hands of hired c'givers .. she's going to present with issue and routinely on those topics . and the consternation will begin . and arguments. Your decisions to make .. only you can decide what you think is best for YOUR well being .. as long as you have the awareness on what that's gonna ultimately look like in real time ... so if that's what you think is best for you .. then .. you have to be the one to decide".

Him some talk of .. if it becomes untenable he will then go . into a setting and my counter, that transition is always easier from one facility to another vs from home . and he needs to be mindful of that.

I think it's a disaster in the making. She who .. if you know her at all, . she is first and foremost and always about the dollar .. and expending the thousands it's gonna cost to do this . she'll all too readily agree . urge/argue that she can care for him . this isn't necessary to pay all these dollars out . leaving him at her hands for his care, and she's not able to do it.

But he is thought to be of sound mind . and so his decision .. .and go for it, is all I can say.

The trick in it all, I learned thru the trenches w/MIL ... don't get in those trenches . not unless you want it all heaped upon you .. because it will be. I learned that lesson .. have the tee shirt with holes in it to prove it. Won't do it again.

So yes, before all is said and done, and argue that time is now . he too is headed in that direction and fighting it. So be it, he's free to choose, .. in his case, he has the means to pay for accommodating what he thinks will work. MIL didn't.
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MIL & FIL long ago paid for cremation plans and so .... there won't be any imminent service.

As is probably the case with a lot of folks who live so long, most of their friends, former co-workers, etc, family ... have already passed on.

She specified long ago (as did her husband and it was done) she wanted her ashes spread at a beach where they used to go on dates. A beach where there have been many many family vacations.

At some point, when SIL can travel this way (after Covid, after her husband recovers and can travel), we'll do that. We'll head for that area, and have a small private/family gathering to spread her ashes there.

CTTN, you are spot on.

As I told DH this morning, him now returning to work, to resume some normalcy to his daily life balance, .. and some sadness on his part that the end of his mom's life had to be spent in a NH setting.

My words to him; "It's unfortunate that is your remaining sentiment at this point, in time I think it'll improve .. and you'll be left with memories of more pleasant days ... pretty sure of it. As for me, .. I have zero regrets ... I can't answer the unanswerable question of why some people live long enough they become incapable of caring for themselves .. no one can answer that. She did ... she got to the point she was falling all the time, many UTI's .. unexplained chitapalooza far too often and failure to adequately care for herself in that setting. I KNOW what it took to keep her in her beloved home .. as long as was humanly possible, and I did it .. and so .. .why she had to have a life course that then directed her path to the sad setting of a NH . only God can answer. I know in the days/weeks ahead .. those bad memories of her sadness at that setting .. .those memories will wane, and be replaced by many many more pleasant memories .. just hang onto that".

It was good, that brought about in him .. reminders of what her last months were in the home .. and how much she was falling and failing in so many ways .. and the necessity that either .. (absent the funds for in home care, which she didn't have) .... either she be in a supported setting or .. we assign the huge enormous individuals of all this family unit to the care around the clock in her home. The latter doesn't exist. There is no huge/enormous family to assign many individuals around the clock .. not there.

It was good, it brought about reminder for him ..

Sad yes ... if we could all just somehow not live long enough that we aren't rendered incapable of caring for ourselves . if somehow that was how life works .. a switch goes off . .and the floor opens up and swallows you into an abyss . no longer able to care for yourself and live independently. Not how it works though for some folks, .. MIL one of those people.

My dad at the precept himself. And his talk these days of returning to home (I think in his case, it's somewhat born out of a need/want .. to satisfy his wife's endless yammering . .that he return to the home). I don't think his wife (Dementia) adequately understands/comprehends his needs.

Him wanting to return to the home, as opposed to a NH .. or other setting . and in him born out of what is pretty futile attempt to satisfy her whims that he return to the home.

So be it ... his decision . and I can't/won't try to persuade otherwise.

If he wants to hire c'givers in the home ... and that'll, in his case, .. need to be f/t .. around the clock .. .(expensive, but he has the means to do it) .. go for it.

It's a dichotomy in that he does have the awareness/realization that his wife is going to try to run the show there, . on the home front in denial in any need to have f/t c'givers on site . .and more to the point, around the clock and expense thereof .. he has awareness/realization . that his wife is going to hammer him routinely . with what SHE thinks is best.... (contrary to what is actually the reality of the setting) .. awareness/realization on
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Dorker, condolences and prayers for comfort and peace for you and your family. Thank for sharing your journey here. Doing that has been so helpful to so many including myself. You could surely write a book.
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"Those who would pine away and wish it hadn't had to be so, need only check themselves and what they did to help her plight or not."

Yes! They wanted YOU to be the 24/7365 caregiver. They need to tell themselves not to let perfect be the enemy of good. MIL had a good passing. It was peaceful. And she saw H, your Ds, and you before she died! That is huge!

".. it'll take an army of professional personnel to help him come to terms with his path forward .. and that it may be remanded to a setting of structured supported living in a LTC site. I alone can't make him understand that and won't even attempt it. An army of professional personnel .. yea . .they can .. and should help drive that initiative if it's their professional assessment his needs mandate that.

No, there is no intent on my part, to join any army of c'givers on his behalf . .and that is clear to everyone involved in this. I will act, from the sidelines, . phone calls, . that kinda thing .. advocate for him .. but the trenches, . day to day care, no . I won't do that."

I hope you can make the professionals drill it into him that he needs to be in a facility. I'm glad you aren't going to step in as a caregiver. But even making phone calls...well, that can become quite the job. And if the time comes when a caregiver doesn't show up, I'm glad you won't step in.
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I was sorry to read of BIL's stroke too. I hope he can make a good recovery. I really can't imagine how hard this would be for SIL, unable to be there or even a funeral. Now she has to be strong for BIL too. Life can really suck sometimes.

I hope Dorker's daughter's are coping too. Without the 'yellow room' could have/should haves).

And for DH, it can also be a jolt, realising you are now the top branch of the family tree - this struck my Mother very hard, the generational shift.

Despite the pandemic, I hope the family can get together somehow to share the good memories.
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Dorker, condolences and big hugs for you, DH, SIL and your whole family. Maybe the final arrangements/service can be live streamed so SIL and BIL can attend virtually.

Even I feel relief but also a strange emptiness for all of you, maybe because I anticipate my own mom’s passing soon. Prayers for God’s peace and comfort for your family.
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A long day of reflection, laughter, some tears, some time spent with local family and memories of MIL today.

Seems to be some sorrow .. some sadness at the fact MIL's last couple of years were spent in a NH and not in her beloved home where she so wanted to be, and the loss of all that she held dear, her home, her poochy, her car, her independence, so on.

First and foremost, MO is it's a fool's errand to entertain any notion of the "what if's".

I am thoroughly contented that her life .. even the last couple of years .. everything that could be made possible for her, .. was done.

Isn't that all that any of us can hope for in a life well lived?

MO ... she enjoyed many more years of independence, and happiness and in her own beloved home with her poochy .. and at the hands of much help .. from me, from her daughter, from her son .. many more years than some are able to achieve.

I don't regret one iota of the fact her life's direction ultimately went to a NH for residence.

I know .. the juncture that became the path forward for her, was the ONLY option.

Those who would pine away and wish it hadn't had to be so, need only check themselves and what they did to help her plight or not.

Personally, I am "ok" with the fact she is gone now. She lived a long and happy life .. and fulfilled in what she held most dear, her family and bonds of time and memories built there.

And CTTN, my statement that it'll take an army of personnel .. w/regard to my dad. That statement was not one made to him from any context of .. "Dad it'll take an army" .. I haven't had any of that dialogue with him. That was a statement made here, in the context .. (maybe I didn't articulate it clearly enough) .. it'll take an army of professional personnel to help him come to terms with his path forward .. and that it may be remanded to a setting of structured supported living in a LTC site. I alone can't make him understand that and won't even attempt it. An army of professional personnel .. yea . .they can .. and should help drive that initiative if it's their professional assessment his needs mandate that.

No, there is no intent on my part, to join any army of c'givers on his behalf . .and that is clear to everyone involved in this. I will act, from the sidelines, . phone calls, . that kinda thing .. advocate for him .. but the trenches, . day to day care, no . I won't do that.
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RIP Dorker’s MIL.

your story helped so many of us to learn about boundaries and the importance of being prepared.

sadly your father still has a rough road ahead.
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Very sorry for the family's loss. Hard to believe after so many shares over 3 years. I know you still have so much to deal with your father. I wish you all find the peace you surely deserve.
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The death of an elderly loved one brings on a range of confusing emotions, especially when they've been in poor health for awhile and have put family members through "trials." Covid only magnifies everything negative that surrounds the passing.

I'm so sorry, yet I am relieved for both MIL and your family. She wanted to go and she was ready.
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Kindest wishes to you Dorker, DH & family. MIL's cloud came & may she be at peace.

Thankyou for allowing us into your world to share the trials & joy of your life.

We are here for you.
Take care, xxxx
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Sending our deepest condolences to you and your family Dorker, on the passing of MIL to her pink cloud, may she rest in peace.
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My thoughts and prayers are with you and DH and family. It is a weird feeling when they finally go. The most important thing is NO GUILT. She was loved. You guys have been kind and she had the best ending she could have within the parameters of her circumstances.

The idea that we can control what death looks like for our loved ones is an illusion. She had love in her life. Celebrate that and chuck the rest.

I say this primarily for your family members. DH, SIL and YD will probably fall into the guilt pit. It is not productive. Every time they start going there, they are going to have to train themselves to think of the good. Otherwise, it will drive you all nuts.

hugs from Hope
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