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Ishoemaker, I was wondering about your daughter giving her Grandmother food and liquids. Did Hospice say this was ok?

Why I ask, usually there comes a point in time when the organs start to shut down, and any food or liquid just sit in the stomach and in the kidneys making it quite painful because those organs can no longer process.

No, Hospice isn't giving your Mom meds to keep her quiet because they cannot be in her room around the clock. The meds are to keep Mom pain free. I rather had seen my own Mom in a peaceful deep sleep then crying in pain. Yes, it is a tough thing to watch a parent pass on.

We have to realize that this is our first rodeo and everything is new to us. Hospice has been doing their care for decades so they know exactly what to do. Ask questions if you are unsure about something. Hospice is available 24 hours a day via phone.
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I am feeling this same thing right now. I know that the morphine and Ativan that they are giving mom is making her high out of her mind. But this is all they say they can do to keep her comfortable. I honestly think this is there way of keeping her quiet, because they cannot be in her room 24/7. It is so sad. I was there last evening and my daughter can wake mom and get her to eat and drink and respond really well to us. But prior to us getting there she was asleep with her mouth opened and only that. I've ask them to spread her meds out to every 5 hours - but so far they haven't yet. It is such an awful thing to watch your parents die and not be able to do anything for them.
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The effects of Ativan..and the dangerous ..deadly effects when combined with morphine

mentalhelp.net/articles/ativan-overdose/


Washington Post article on hospice patients getting lethal overdoses..even when not showing any pain ...

washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/08/21/as-more-hospices-enroll-patients-who-arent-dying-questions-about-lethal-doses-arise/?utm_term=.228190ff7b02
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I want my mother to have comfort measures, obviously, and I've been thinking about when is the right time to put her on Hospice because I'll only put her on Hospice when she's in critical decline. She qualified five years ago. I don't believe in dragging out the death process for months upon months - for her. This is just cruel.

Last night I talked to the CVS pharmacist. I asked him if morphine will stop the pain of sepsis building up from a UTI because as of now the next time my mother gets a UTI, my plan is to put her on Hospice and let nature take it's course as she's been homebound for five years from due to no quality of life. He said no and that morphine will only help with the pain and she will still feel a lot of discomfort as the infection is building up in her bloodstream - even with sedatives. He also said with some patients, morphine causes insomnia so that just makes the whole end of life process even worse for the patient. The reason why I bring this up is that it all depends on what is the medical condition that led to your loved one to go on Hospice. An example: When a patient is experiencing delirium in the last months or weeks or whatever, the typical care plan is to prescribe morphine and a sedative - but for some patients, these sedatives actually can cause a psychotic break because they make the existing dementia symptoms - or those genetically predisposed to dementia - even worse. There are plenty of documented clinical studies on Web supporting this. Last year, my mother was on Ativan to try to help her sleep - two weeks later she turned into a psychotic uncontrollable nightmare...very combative, very angry, would not eat, etc. I immediately stopped it and called her PCP and told him "Hell NO!" to Ativan. After a few days, she back to her normal self. If she were under Hospice care, they may have viewed her behavior as this is the end of life when it's actually the medications they are using because they are not appropriate for her genetic health. It's not unusual for off-label drugs to be used while on Hospice - and Hospice knows this - but they are limited to the types of drugs that are available for use because of manufacturing/pharma companies working 24/7 on the next miracle drug to treat this or that medical condition and if there was a drug that's appropriate for delirium issues - most definitely they would use it. It's not the fault of Hospice when there is no drug on the market right now that can treat complicated delirium issues near end of life. I'm not a martyr for Hospice because my father did have a bad experience with one of them (but I have two good ones for my mother when the time comes). As a POA/loved one making decisions, you need to be practical about what it is you want with the understanding that it may not work - and do whatever it takes to relieve the suffering as quickly as possible - for the patient. When Mom does go on Hospice, she will start with morphine...if they suggest a sedative that I know isn't appropriate for her - I'm telling them no and I'll just let her ride it out until her end because it's criminal to give her something like Ativan or Haldol when I 100% know it will cause a psychotic break. I'd rather have her body shut down from dehydration or no food and have the overall decline process be done with in a few days. I'll just put on my headphones while she's screaming. For the last six months, she's been talking about my father - a first in ten years when he expired - and she keeps saying she wants to "go home". I tell her, it's okay you can go and I'll miss you. She replies I'll miss you too. Of course I leave the room to cry because I don't want her to see this.

A POA/loved one can always refuse medication or treatment plan from Hospice or any healthcare professionals - Just tell them no. Because of my father's horrific suffering in the healthcare industry, I've taken it upon myself to thoroughly educate every medical treatment for us. Too many people are too trusting of their healthcare providers...People spend hours researching the best school system for their kids...the best washer and dryer...the best-used car...but when it comes to healthcare, they blindly hand over their case to someone, many times a stranger, who spends less than 15min reviewing it. The doctor is there to treat. How often do they start a consult with "Let's talk about the quality of life." It's not their job to do this because of medical liability but there are some doctors that do - not many. I was painfully burned by what happened to my father - and I'll never let that happen again.
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yes they did it to ours when he begged to breath and his oxegen required 30 and they said they can only allow 10, he suffocated and morphine stopped his heart
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Probably ABHR cream or gel. It is an antinausea/antivomitting med.
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I have a question. When my husband was dying of cancer, Hospice gave me cream to apply to each side of his neck under the ears. I had to wear gloves when applying this. This was in 2009 and I have always wondered what this was. He died within hours of using this. I thank God for Hospice.
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It was hard this year, but I am finally able to cope with the death of my mother. I did home hospice with my mom out of love and respect for my mom. I at first that the actions of hospice rushed her to die. I realize now after all of the thinking if things would be different if I had taken a different path would she have lived longer. Hindsight is always better than in the moment. Mom was ready to let go, i just helped her to go pain free and with her family instead of with strangers.

I recently was in the hospital myself and in the room next to me was an older woman who like my mom could not use the call button for help, she was calling for help and I used my call button to let the nurses know that she was calling for help. I just hope that I will receive the care like my mom.
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I seriously doubt Marti is making a killing at being an independent radio show host (pun intented)!
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Glad Mari Oakley found another way to earn a living, expect it pays better than nursing.
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Shadaia,

Yes, that has been my same experience. Hospice is supposed to come up with a plan of care for each patient, based on the patient's individual needs. All I've ever known them to do is pump them up with morphine, adivan, haldol and others. It's the same protocol for every patient!

I recommend the Hospice Patients Alliance website. It is filled with information about this. It was founded by a former hospice nurse turned whistleblower.

Carly Walden is a board member of the Hospice Patients Alliance, and she now has her own radio show about this. Just look up the Marti Oakley Show on blog talk radio.
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The first hospice my father was in was AWFUL. A few years after he expired, I read in the paper that this hospice was audited and permanently closed due to fraudulent billing. The second hospice my father was in was good.

Health care is no different than any other business...there are good and bad ones out there and you just have to network to find the good ones before your loved one actually needs it. Unfortunately, not many of us have this option because we just go with whatever agency is handed to us in the midst of a medical crisis. Because of my father's experience, I have two hospices that I know are good and are on my speed dial for the time when I have to put mother on hospice.
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Wow..how is it that people can only have positive experiences with hospice.....those same people also be rude and mean to those that did not have a positive experience with hospice....that is great if your loved one had the pleasure of good hospice...but please..can't you show some tiny bit of compassion for those that did not..or is it beneath you..or will it make you question yourselves..and your motives....not everyone has the desired outcome and experience...and sometimes things go wrong or have a lacking educated. support..the drugs used have adverse affects..and timing can be off...as well as the expectation of the family..and the person passing..or not..as to how they are being drugged..or passed..so sad that such little compassion is shown in these postings for those that had bad experiences..
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Thank you PCVS,

It was horrific the way everything played out in front of my eyes. I just felt as if the process was so rushed and the nurse we had was not compassionate. She had already given her morphine to ease the pain so she was resting. Then she gave her Oxycodone and 2 other medications within short periods of time. Hearing multiple families stories who had similar experiences to me just put things into perspective. Yes Hospice may have helped you and others but that's not going to be the case for everyone. People have different experiences and see things differently and You are right Hospice is not for me and I will never use them for my loved ones.
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Shadaia, I don't know where you are getting your data from but your experience has not been mine. My mother was not "pumped full" of any medications. We only started the morphine when she was in pain and then not even a baby's sized dose. I am sorry that your experience was so horrific to you. In fact the help was probably all that made your friend comfortable before death. Please do remember that Hospice is meant to ease the passing. Neither rush it nor prolong it.

If it pains you to not use extraordinary measures then Hospice is not for you.
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Then you shouldn't have even replied
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I am not even going to dignify this with a reply.
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Yes, Hospice assists in killing your loved ones. All this pumping them up with different drugs that are proven to not actually help with anything, hence having to get them refilled. If these drugs actually helped our loved ones like they claim they do we wouldn't need to get refills. I just find it bizzare that all the precedures of individuals in hospice care turn out the same exact way, very similar. Loved ones become unresponsive, heart starts racing, etc. All these similar patterns are no coincidence. We need to start questioning and doing our research on this modern medicine. Alot of these hospice nurses and some doctors dont value human life. They make it seem as if they are helping but in reality they are just worsening the conditions. Pumping all those drugs and chemicals into a sick individual every so often is not helping them at all. Yea we can give them something to assist them with the pain their feeling but we are poisoning them in reality. I was assisting a friend of the family before she passed of colon cancer they pumped her with 4 different drugs over a short time period claiming this was helping her and she is no longer with us. There are other ways to heal diseases we shouldn't be so quick to trust in strangers with our loved ones. We should exhaust all other possibilities before that one.
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My mthr who declined chemo for her cancer was discharged from Hospice last August after about 2.5 years. She was no longer declining fast enough to remain on hospice care. Here we are 5 montha later and she can no longer walk and has a lot of pain. Looks like she can go back on service and get some relief- the visiting doc does not like to give pain meds with her anti anxiety drugs. Hospice can do that because the pt has been shown to be close to death. There is not a need to look at the long term, 6 mos or more, effects of the pain meds on hospice. The end should be near.
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Prolife you are doing damage control to your own beliefs by constantly posting to this site about hospice and murder.
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Freqflyer is doing damage control for the hospice industry. We are well aware of this practice to counter truthful information.
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My dad passed away in Hospice this past week from Parkinson's. He was diagnosed 10 years ago, and at 84, he experienced all the horror that Parkinson's with Dementia brings. In his last 6 weeks, he suffered the worst hallucinations/delusions possible. He believed he had been beaten, raped, held at gun point, the staff had been shot, other residents were bleeding, and there was blood everywhere, and it was EVERY day. Nothing gave him relief until the very end -- was it the morphine? I don't know, but for the last few days of his life, he seemed to be at peace, and I am grateful for whatever gave him that before he left us.
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Lok, I realize some people feel that Hospice hasten death, and in those cases usually was because the family waited until almost zero hour to bring in Hospice. Thus the body was already in shutting down. Yes, there are exceptions as with anything in life.

There are patients who "graduate" from Hospice, and continue to live productive lives. That was the case of that 13 year old boy from Texas, who's mother was starving him to death [she was charged with attempted murder], which resulted in the child having a life-threatening blood infection. Thankfully he pulled through. Note that not everyone passes away in Hospice.
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Frequent flyer..what you say is not true..and I cannot believe you would make such a broad statement..especially since conditions and situations vary..especially when you throw Lorazepam into the mixture..and other drugs..and these meds knock out a person..causing dehydration..lack of appetite..coma..confusion..cascading effect..etc..a person who is aware...and without pain..or with minimal,pain who may have weeks or months of precious life left...and perhaps with a chance to regain their life..if they are not elderly..should not be drugged into a comatose death...and then say ..it would make no difference in their time line ..time table..for life...and FYI ..some crazy lady in Texas managed to get her young son into hospice..saying he was terminal...and according to protocol..he would have been drugged to death ...when he wasn't even sick...a hospital finally figured out nothing was wrong..and reported her..through investigation..they managed to get him out of hospice and back with his father..and if had stayed in hospice..perfectly healthy..but drugged to death..you would say he died according to his appropriate time line?.!! Not all situations..conditions..are the same...but you..without compassion fail,to acknowledge this...hospice can be good..is good..but in some cases...it is a disaster for a person..just depends on the place..people..condition...and situation..
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aint nobody talking about morphine!!!! see??? you all dont evben know what your answering!!!!! i vsaid seroquil!!!! vgo read the warnings on seroquil from the fda!!! you know, the part that says it could cause sudden death in physcotic dementia patients! they wont approve it! then go back to the first and read what i said at the first about how things went and how fast to my fathers death! you people just pull crap out of the air and make it sound any way you want! you all must be hospice workers or nursing home workers one or the othewr!! I'M DONE WITH YOU! GOOD BYE!!!
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A person will pass on the same time table whether they used Hospice or not.

As for morphine overdosing, it would take one dose of 200mg for that to happen. It would be impossible for anyone to get their hands on such a huge amount. Hospice uses between 5mg and 15mg to make a patient comfortable.
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thank you mary00!! you know what i'm saying! these other people on here that start rattling off things they dont know about and try to more or less tell us we are full of it dont need to be on here! their situation is not our situation. not everyones death is rushed by hospice or nursing homes but some are and its a known fact! dont know where all these bleeding hearts for hospice and nursing homes get their know it all knowdledge at but their situation is not ours!
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Hospice and my dad's caregiver overdoses my dad on morphine. 3 days before he died he was talking and eating. She gave him.morphine even when he was passed out. Till he died.
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I feel hospice and my dad's caregiver over medicated my dad till he died.3 days before he died he was eating and talking.he was only on half the syringe full of morphine.tben the last 2 days they increased it to full syringe every 4 hrs. He tried to push caregivers hand away with meds.she forced it.until he was like in a coma.he died on christmas.
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Thank you so much, Shane.
My Mom wasn’t in hospice.She died in the nursing home she had been living in for the last 15 years.
The nurse who gave my Mom the 2 injections was a nurse who wasn’t working at the home full time, she just worked during some nights per week.
This leads me to believe she wasn’ capable to make the right decision about the morphine.
Yes, I know my Mom was going to die anyway, I just know that she would have lived more days without the meds.
She was totally awake and alert.
The nurse should have told me that there was no way we could ”change” my Mom’s rapid breathing, this breathing was just a normal phase in the dying process and nothing that had to be corrected.
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