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No one is giving medical advice. Sharing information is not advice-giving.

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Prolife is a troll who has infested many threads on this forum in order to manipulate people's emotions for the purpose of (in his/her mind) furthering his/her personal political agenda.

If Prolife were truly interested in doing something about this issue, he/she would be busy lobbying legislators and other decision-makers, and wouldn't have the time to post repetitively in a single forum. Prolife is clearly only interested in provoking reactions and disrupting conversations, and is probably enjoying him/herself very much.

In my real life, I've known a couple of "pro-life" (in this case, anti-abortion) people who've gotten kicked out of their local activist group for being problematic and disruptive, so they've taken their energy online to troll people where there are fewer consequences for their actions.

I'm sorry some of the threads are making people's hearts heavy, but it's quite clear things were going fine until Prolife came along to disrupt supportive conversations and drag all of these hospice threads under. If the moderators would ban Prolife's IP address (this site IS supposed to be non-political), these threads would probably return to some kind of normalcy.

Personally, I'm not one bit sorry for mocking Prolife, because he/she is a big faker who goes around making up new accounts (sockpuppets) on AgingCare.com just to troll us all with more obviously fake "testimonies."

Emotional manipulators are among the worst kind of people, and he/she ought to know some of us see right through him/her.
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I just want to point out that there are many people commenting here claiming to be nurses and giving medical advice.

I have just learned from a medical mal practice attorney that a nursing license does not permit you to give medical advice.

Only a doctor is lisenced to give medical advice.

If you are diagnosing and prescribing treatments and making recommendations, you are giving medical advice, and this is illegal. 

I have seen many doing this in these forums.
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I'm with CM.This whole debate just makes my heart heavy and it's bringing back so many bad memories I have. My Mother set a record with her Hospice Company for being on their service 3 and a half years straight and there were good things that happened and bad things that happened in that time. I could go on about A LOT of things with Hospice, but it's not going to help anyone and that is what I believe this site, Agingcare is for, to help others,not hurt others~
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Prolife, it would be better if you contact your State Senators/Congresspersons and your U.S. Senators/Congresspersons and let them know how you feel regarding Hospice.

And also contact the National Institute of Health and let them know that their information is incorrect according to your findings.

Otherwise, nothing is going to be solved by posting your material on the forums.
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Prolife, your little sockpuppet accounts might be fooling some folks, but they're still nothing more than your sockpuppets.
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What a strong testimony, FaithInHim! I'm so glad you were able to save her.

Your story is a lot like Carly Walden's. Her grandmother was being overdosed by a hospice. She revoked hospice, called an ambulance, and a police escort.

It took her a week to wake up from the drug induced coma she was in.

That's been three years ago now, she is still alive and thriving. And, Carly is now a board member of the Hospice Patients Alliance, a Prolife, patient advocate organization, founded by a hospice nurse, turned whistleblower.
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Yes. I had the same problem with my mom. Alert one day and then sleeping throughout the day. We felt that the morphine was causing her to sleep way to long. My sister decided that we would have someone there throughout the day to watch closely and monitor the dosage. Sure enough they were entering the room multiple times to administer the morphine. My sister told them to not give anymore morphine. The nurse became very agitated and said if we refused we had to leave. After careful thought, we did just that. We signed papers saying that we refused the hospice care. We called for an ambulance and took mom home. Mom woke up after the morphine wore off. She was so happy to be home that it brought tears to our eyes. She was alert again and the ambulance driver said her vitals were good. The family watched her throughout the night. We did return to the hospital after a couple of days because we didn’t have a full time nurse. A case worker at the hospital helped us get into a nursing home that had a good rating. Mom stayed there for months. So yes. They decide on the time. They know how much to give. We had faith in God and the help of Holy Spirit to discern what was going on there and we moved her by faith
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The Flat Earth Society is a sterling organisation of elective awkward squad members, Dorianne. I won't hear a word against them!

I also flatter myself that it's a sign of mental independence that when comedians lazily turn to allegations like "in Grrrr! County Mississippi it's illegal to study Statistics" - or whatever improbable bylaw they've managed to dig up from the early 19th century - I now demand further-and-better particulars instead of hooting or gasping with horror on cue.

The whole debate makes my heart heavy. No, not every hospice and not every end of life experience is all it should be. Some will have crossed a line. And professions do close ranks, too: only yesterday the General Medical Council dismissed an appeal for the reinstatement of a Paediatrician who was convicted of gross negligence manslaughter over her grotesque neglect of a learning disabled child from whom she withheld treatment for a simple, but ultimately lethal, gut infection. Note, her professional body was *defending* her, on the grounds that if she were permanently removed from practice it would deter others from admitting to their mistakes. The GMC took the view that this wasn't a mistake so much as an absolute dereliction of the most basic duties, and I dare say they profoundly hoped that there won't be any parallel cases for it to be a precedent for.

But then again, it isn't a matter of any government blithely accepting - let alone actively encouraging - the mistreatment of vulnerable, dying patients. It's a matter of their needing a better answer, if this one's not working. And what is the better answer?

Not giving morphine to a person even if she does have a broken arm, apparently. That was in her best interests... how?
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"Please do your own research. Stop relying on me to provide all the answers for you. You can go to the book and there is plenty of proof/resources provided there."

That is what I have been doing. I find no support other than your site.
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Dorianne. it is not an epidemic of murder...and it was not their intention...medications...drugs..amount..can have different reactions in different people...some don't manifest its side affects immediately...Hospice provides needed care..and it a difficult profession taking care of weak..sick people and not everyone is educated..or experienced as they should be...as in any profession..and sometimes bad things happen..but it is the exception..just wish they wouldn't rush the drugs..in the dosage that they do..in a short period of time...and differentiate between having pain..and give drugs..to showing no pain and anxiety...and not give increased drugs..

I am glad that you care about nature..as I do...and I do not believe in dumping meds..even otc meds into garbage or toilet...as this goes into the environment..poisons nature..water system...and back into food sources as well...and back into us...

The home hospice nurse per protocol..destroys all left over meds...and needs a witness that it has been done..so it was done in front of me...I am familiar with the pills..and they have markings..and it came straight out of the bottle..she thought she was doing something good for me...but it was not good to do..this is my point...why would I take photos etc.? I suppose In her mind that particular pill was insignificant...but to me...it was a substance I didn't want inside me...so alright..ok..I will say it was Tylenol...
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Meallen,

Please do your own research. Stop relying on me to provide all the answers for you. You can go to the book and there is plenty of proof/resources provided there.
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That's right and Mr.Harris has never and will never be charged with murder, even though it has been proven that they did murder some. He will only be charged with the fraud crimes he committed. They don't care about the weak and vulnerable. After all "they were going to die anyway".
How can it be proven if it hasn't gone to trial.

Please show Panzer's proof--statics from a reputable source would be helpful. You are quoting from a book written by the web-site's owner. That is self-referential. Do you have any training in evaluation of sources or statics?
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"In the end, neither side of the aisle has done anything yet of significance to stop the medical killing of the terribly vulnerable, very young, very old, or disabled and ailing. There may be hearings about conditions in the skilled nursing facilities. There may be posturing, but nothing serious has been done to protect them. And yes, these individuals are absolutely being killed in very large numbers.

The Congressmen know this, but it's like the old story of the Emperor with no clothes: nobody dares to speak the truth about the matter publicly. They hope that the "obvious goes unseen" by the public. They know it and they are glad for it. They know that the large number of lives ended will help reduce expenditures for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other services to the elderly and disabled."

-Ron Panzer, "Stealth Euthanasia; Health Care Tyranny in America"
Subtitle - "The Government Loves Hospice"
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meallen,

That's right and Mr.Harris has never and will never be charged with murder, even though it has been proven that they did murder some. He will only be charged with the fraud crimes he committed. They don't care about the weak and vulnerable. After all "they were going to die anyway".
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I went the the website. It's self-referential. Cites works I can't find. Takes information about of context. And being quoted in newspaper doesn't mean it's an endorsement, or makes what you are saying a fact. The only possible thing of interest was a report from several papers from 2016 that an FBI agent wrote in an affidavit for a warrant that a nurse reported that Brad Harris, director of Novis Hospice ordered her to overdose four patients. Harris seems a pretty slippery customer, as he basically turned Novis into another hospice with a different name while awaiting trial. He was charged with " He was indicted on 11 counts of health care fraud, one count of conspiracy to commit health care fraud and three counts of unlawful distribution of a controlled substance related to prescriptions such as morphine....Some people died because of those overdoses, according to the indictment." However, this appears to the final charges. justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/sixteen-individuals-charged-60-million-medicare-fraud-scheme The case has not yet gone to trial.

A charge of fraud, which certainly included not putting the patients' care first, which has not yet come to trial, seems flimsy evidence to damn an entire medical and nursing practice.
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You just discarded the pills? You didn't have them tested? Did you take a photo at least? How do you know it wasn't Tylenol? How do *I* know it wasn't Tylenol? At least you didn't flush them, I hope, or throw them in the dumpster. Fish and racoons like to live too.

It sure seems curious to me that law enforcement hasn't caught on to this epidemic of "murder" yet.
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Dorianne...your comment is insulting to all those that had their loved ones rushed to death...by the drugs...mixture..and it seems the focus is on the elderly..but..hospice takes,care,of,all,age,group..some are not elderly...and some are overdosed ..misdiagnosed etc..there is good and bad..don't insult those that had the misfortune of having a bad experience...and FYI...Americans are now the least educated of all the western civilization countries..
And btw..my brothers home hospice nurse..right after he was OD handed me some Lorazepam pills..in case I needed them..I did not report her..but I disposed of them..I know their effects..side affects..and know how dangerous they can be..and from an SNP analysis..know I can't properly metabolize them..same with my brother..besides being illegal for someone not a doctor to give someone meds who is not a doctor..and one never knows potential side affects...but..for the most part..all the home hospice nurses were very attentive to him..including the one who OD him..per the Nurse practicioners drug dosage instructions...not her own decision...  with his best interest at heart..with only a few..who were clueless..
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#mylovedonetoo
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Did you know surveys and polling have shown between 18 and 26% of Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth?

Up to 30% of Americans believe airplanes are spraying "chemtrails" to make people sick or control people's minds.

There is even a growing movement of people that believe the earth is flat.

So I'm not really surprised at the all-out conspiracy-oriented paranoia some people experience around hospice care.

Some people are so determined to find human fault, that they don't want to understand the science behind the process of death, or the science of how medications may ease the symptoms of dying. They just want to stick their fingers in their ears and continue to believe what they want to believe.

Such a pity.
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For those who didn't read the original poster, Rosie's later reply 4 years ago, I will post it here:

"I asked the question because my brother accused me of putting dad in hospice and letting the staff over medicate him so he would die quicker. I then did a little research on that subject on the internet and found that some people believe that like he does. I am a member of this group so where better for me to get input of all kinds on this subject. It has informed and enlightened me as I read the responses. When I want an answer to something I ask. That is all it was.. a question. No blame, nothing. The staff treated dad like he was their own. For that I will be eternally grateful. I was his only caregiver for 4 yrs and finally I had someone to share the load with me and they did. Overall, the experience was very peaceful for me and hopefully for my dad too. I have informed my son that hospice is where I want to be when my time to leave this earth nears."
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AngryLilsister,

That is exactly what they did. I'm so sorry. This is horrifying that they can do this and get away with it!

Please visit the Hospice Patients Alliance website for help, and look at my profile for other resources.
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Dying people can rally the the morning, look as if they are recovering, have a lovely conversation, slip a little tea, asked to be moved in an armchair, and die that evening. I am so tempted to say, sure, the hospice killed my dad, but I had to pay extra. He died because he stopped treatment for cancer. He stopped treatment for cancer because he left the effort for another 2 to 3 month of life wasn't worth it to HIM. He asked to go to inpatient Hospice when my mother and I could no long lift or turn him. Once there, he regained a little strength. I don't know why. My mother though it was relief. He wanted to be taken for a couple of little walks in a wheelchair. For the first time in weeks he showed an interest in food and ate a few mouthfuls of scrambled eggs. 13 days later he was dead. Hospice did not kill him; they took care of the chills and sweats the hospital had never been able to. They kept him comfortable. They were an absolute blessing. Would he has lived longer at home; I doubt it. Would he have lived longer, with treatment; perhaps. He died when he was ready, at peace and know that his family had support. That's what he wanted.
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Lynn2018

Was this in the hospital? I posted my mom who was on Hospice in the hospital, GI doc "visited" and billed insurance, even though she no longer was using a feeding tube. This can (and sometimes does) happen.
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Profile, you wrote "When hospice sedates someone, thereby, denying them access to food and water".

Please, please note that when a person is on the dying journey that their organs start to shut down. It would be extremely painful to give someone food as it would just sit in the stomach as the stomach isn't digesting... and liquid will sit in the kidneys.
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I know this response is long after your post/question, but my brother was in the hospital for just over a week. Although, he wasn't able to speak due to the breathing tube) he could hear us talking/singing to him. Somehow is wife made arrangements to have him transfered to Hospice. When I say one day later my brother was no longer responding to anything or anyone... it was like the drugs put him in that state. I have been having a really hard time with this because I believe that's what they did; administered the morphine and helped to end his life a lot sooner than it would have been. I feel completly robbed of my brother! This is hard for me, because only being his sister and him having a wife who doesnt really care; it's out of my hands. Oh... and my brother just passes 12/8/17.
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Freqflyer,

There are other options besides hospice. Such as home health, which also provides pain management, and as far as I know, they do not kill.

When hospice sedates someone, thereby, denying them access to food and water, it is euthanasia.

The person I saw this done to was not having any pain that constituted sedation.

She was not having pain from dying. Her pain was from a broken arm.

The fact that she was being kept sedated because of pain from her broken arm was not hid from us.

She died seven days later of dehydration. This is murder. And there are hundreds of other accounts, in hospice programs, all across the country, that are the same or similar.

I know hospice kills, and you will never convince me otherwise, with your verbatim, hospice damage control verbiage.
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Prolife, once again please note that a person dies on the same time table whether they use Hospice or not.

Some people feel Hospice made their love one die quickly, and usually those cases the family waited until the very last minute to call in Hospice. So, of course, the time table would already be toward the end of life.

You have a choice, you can watch a love one wither in pain without Hospice, or you can watch a love one be peacefully at sleep with no feeling of pain. Personally, I would take the latter. What would be your choice?

[I am not associated with any Hospice group nor never been. It is from knowledge I learned by asking questions of the Hospice group for my elderly parents, and from other information from expert groups such as the National Institute of Health, etc].
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Freqflyer,

I'm not here to debate.
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I am keeping my fingers off the keyboard tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Prolife, there are two sides to every story, why do you feel that you only need to read about one side only? Sue had excellent information, jump in and learn.  And yes, I have checked out your side of the issue.  That is how debates work.

"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before.” by Albert Einstein
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