Today I had my first appointment with an actual therapist (not a counselor).
Even though one hour wasn't long enough to spew out everything I need to talk about, this woman completely picked up on 2 truly major points.
1) Even ONE of the stressors I have been dealing with over the last year is more than enough to warrant therapy!
2) I have been the "caregiver " for everyone in my family since I was 12 years old!
She asked me what I do for myself?
I had absolutely no answer!!
Hence therapy!! Lol
Caring for a narcissistic LO is a labor of love!
Not because they will love us back, but because we need to love ourselves!!
How do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO?
What do you do for yourself?
(((Hugs)))
After a year of inaction concerning mom's episode, I confronted ( probably not the most fortunate choice of terms) her visiting PRN about mom's dimentia. Mom did tell the PRN about her fall due to giving the DOG oxygen. I felt like that might have opened a door for a conversation. Also the PRN looked directly at me when she asked mom the question " how many times a day do you take your oxygen?" Mom answered in long form, 2 times a day. I shook my head. PRN reworded the question ( genius move, on PRN's part, really. If she makes the same statement when the question is posed in such a way as to sound like a different question,her answer confirms if she's lying, confused, confabulating or misunderstood the question or being truthful) mom gave even more false details, said 2 times a day and I shook my head again. PRN said her OXSAT was good and then they started the conversation about meds.
After the PRN was finished and leaving, I talked to her outside. It's not my style to do this outside of the earshot of all parties involved but I have to accept that my open and up-front, in-your-face style hasn't had a positive result so far. So, I changed my strategy. Here's what I said:
"I need your ear for a moment. Look, Her neurologist isn't helping her. Take a look at your notes, you'll see that ( previous PRN, name redacted) and I talked about issues before but this has gotten rediculous. Her neurologist is enabling her and I have no idea why withholding a diagnosis would be therapeutic. She's got some kind of dimentia and she's starting to sundown. You can see in your records that she's had every test that would rule out anything physical that could possibly be causing cognitive problems. It's time we took some proactive steps and start addressing the real cause."
Right after that happened, my best friend in all the world and neighbor messaged me that she's in the hospital. She's pregnant and her amniotic sac might be ruptured.
Please pray for this young woman and her baby. This is a miracle child for her and her family. Doctors told her she could not have any more children after she had her adorable little girl. I can't disclose my bestie's name but I don't think it matters. Prayers don't really need to have addresses on them.
Thank you wonderful ladies. I'll get caught up soon.
I miss all of you very much.
My NM started vomiting more and more right before she went. Hindsight is 20/20, I think my NM was in organ failure. The first system to go is the digestive system. I notice that my NM wasn't eating much solid foods, but she was eating pudding, soups, jello, broths then it was she couldn't keep soups down. Then she couldn't eat pudding or jello. She just started to drink tea & broth. She wasn't using the bathroom very much the last 2 weeks of her life. But of course, she would tell me that she wasn't feeling well and I would ask if she wanted to see a Dr and she would say, "no." Then I would ask her if she thought maybe it was time for hospice & she would say, "no." After awhile I just stop asking her!!! I really wished that I would have put her on hospice...but you really can't make anyone do anything, especially if they are h3ll bent on doing things their way! She wanted to leave this world her way & she did!!
You can rant to me any time! If it helps you then rant away my friend! You are very welcome!!💜
I also have a feeling you may be right about NM passing soon. She's having more and more stomach issues lately. She's vomiting more, and then yesterday she said she 'had to go the bathroom but couldn't' so I'm wondering if there's an issue with her GI/colon going on. IDK. She's had diverticulitis in the past as well as ulcerative colitis VERY badly in 2011. So I would not be surprised to hear there's a blockage going on...........my uncle on dad's side just passed 2 weeks ago from a colon blockage; he had surgery and never recovered. So we'll see. I am also predicting a hospitalization coming up here soon.
Yes, I thought a million times that the wrong parent died. Like you, I was closed to my dad and he was a great dad/person! After my dad died my narcissistic mother (NM) got worst with me. She became out of control in every way. She just passed away 4/16 of this year & I don't miss her & that is sad, but true! She made my life a living h3ll!
If your mom has all this help then why do you need to be involved? I am asking out of curiosity! But I will tell you the more dementia kicks in the more narcissist they become! Ugh!!!
You will find support & help here! This is a great forum and a great thread...so welcome to it!!!
YES, once Dad the Buffer was gone, NM got TERRIBLY worse too! And being the 'only child', I've borne the brunt of all of her rage and hostility!
Here's a good article to read:
https://lifelessons.co/personal-development/covertpassiveaggressivenarcissist/#3
The long & the short of it is this: you can fix what's broken in your mother, as none of us can. Nothing is ever wrong with them in THEIR eyes, either. Medicine is for the weak, as is psychiatric help or, God forbid, self help. They're there to dish OUT the pain, not take it. There to manipulate her way into getting what she wants thru passive/aggressive means and tantrums/silent treatments rather than adult interactions and direct requests, right? Yeah, we know the drill, unfortunately.
Try not to feel too 'selfish & heartless' about all of this and about not liking her, because that's how she WANTS you to feel. All the behaviors are designed to make you feel FOG: Fear Obligation & Guilt. Which keeps you coming back to get burned again and again so she can dish out MORE FOG, and so the cycle continues. I think it's safe to say we all 'love' our NMs, we just don't LIKE them. Who WOULD like a person who's self absorbed, mean, selfish and SO self centered that nothing else exists past the tip of her own nose?
Anyway, you've come to the right place for support! We all get it b/c we're livin the dream every day.
I know your right! I have mental health issues and I don't go around hurting, sabotage and making people's life h3ll. Even when I am having a really bad day I still try to be nice & polite to people because the way I look at it 'it's not their fault that I am having a bad day.' I know the I can't help it is just another way to not take responsibility!
I am just so sorry that your NM is Sundowning something worst. I wish I could help you. I still feel she may go soon & I don't know why! I pray that I am right!! I'll just keep praying for both of you! Hugs!!
To be perfectly blunt, do any of you think to yourself, the wrong parent died?
My dad passed away last year. He may be the best person I will ever know, so I'm lucky I had him for 40+ years. My mother is challenging. Charming on one end and death by a thousand paper cuts on the other. It's taken me years of therapy to find myself and to be honest, I'm still looking. I am aware that my mother has some undiagnosed issues. I am also aware that my mother can be selfish, dismissive, and passive aggressively cruel (it's easier to gaslight people that way, "Sorry I made you feel that way" rather than "Sorry I did something hurtful.") Since my dad's death, it has fallen to me to jump in and provide some general support. She's healthy, mentally with it, and has no physical or financial issues to worry about. She can take care of herself independently, has a cleaner, a gardener, a handy man, an accountant. She's been left with the means and resources she needs and the ability to use them. My role has been largely emotional support. Interestingly, she doesn't really subscribe to mental health supports. She is resistant to therapy, medication - it's fine for other people, she herself just doesn't need them.
But, she does have anxiety and it manifests itself in a variety of ways. More specifically for me, my suggestions are routinely dismissed, my information is regularly wrong, and pretty much whatever comes out of my mouth can be debated or argued. It's exhausting, so I've learned not to share much or if I can't help myself to not engage in a dialog about it, because it usually ends with her telling me what she would do in my situation, because clearly the way I handled it was not up to snuff.
This has been going on for years, made only more prominent as my dad isn't around to buffer. I have had thoughts where I thought how much simpler it would have been if my dad wasn't the one who had died. He had some memory problems and other non-serious health issues, but I can't help but feel fate got it wrong. That I wouldn't be wringing my hands with anxiety over dealing with my mom's silent treatment or gaslighting or whatever other passive tantrum she might throw in order to get me to do what she wants. It breaks my heart, because I really do want to like her, but there's so much baggage that it feels impossible to get there. So the very most I can muster up is some compassion, which helps convert anger or resentment into a mild indifference, but is still not helpful in making me feel better about the situation.
I can't shake this feeling. It feels selfish and heartless. And it doesn't help that I'm the child responsible for being available (as I live in the area and my siblings all live hours away).
I have always been a fan of British television so we have subscribed to BritBox. It’s fantastic! Especially, the comedy shows. ‘Waiting for God’ is hysterical! It’s set in a British retirement home.
Chris,
Do you know that show? ‘Waiting for God.’ It’s really funny! The woman that plays the character, ‘Diana’ is absolutely wonderful! She could definitely be one of the moms on this thread! Actually, underneath her stern behavior she has a heart.
I don't think you should be feeling any guilt yourself. Your NM 'couldn't help' being the way she was but she still WAS the way she was, refused to get help for being the way she was, and making everyone's life a living nightmare.........so that part of it she COULD help. So make sure not to go down THAT path, ok? We are all responsible for our own behavior and the "I can't help it's" just do not hold water. Sorry. Just today I called my son to tell him how proud I am of him and what a great job I think he's doing with his son (both he and his wife) b/c I don't think I do that enough with my kids. So I picked up the phone and DID it b/c I know what it feels like NOT to be complimented by both of my parents. There. That wasn't so hard at ALL, being present and responsible for my own behavior!
Thank you & I do feel like I am healing emotionally, physically & mentally. I am no longer waking up with a dreaded feeling like NOW what is she doing or has done!
It is good to get your sister to help out. I know I use to get nausea and had bad stomach aches and it was all stress. I think your body is telling you that you're under to much stress.Take care of yourself. I know that sounds easier than done. Hugs!!
Chris,
Thank you! Your right, this will be the last time and she's not here to make things difficult for me! As far as my NM'S side of the family goes it will be easy to ignore because they're never been around much & they won't be now because I won't give them what they want. Oh well, I lived this long without them. I can go the rest of my life without them! I will not be controlled by any of them. I refuse!! Painting will be good for you and don't let anyone take that from you!
Xray,
The group has grown a lot! I too just love the support I get from everyone here. The best part is that we have people that know what it is like to have a dementia narcissistic mother & they believe you! No one ever believed me when it came to my NM. Her side of the family doesn't believe that she could be that bad even though, they all were physically abused & highly mistreated. Actually, this has helped me more than my therapist ever has. If it wasn't for this thread I don't think I would had ever known my mother was a narcissist. So thank you for starting this thread!
Lea,
Like Xray stated "it is a rotten feeling hoping secretly they will just pass away nicely in their sleep (soon). It is, but the alternative it just so dam painful, exhausting, and frustrating. They make our lives h3ll! You know no matter where you put your NM she will be miserable even if, she came to live with you. Not that is going to happen!! You have said it a million times that these women are miserable no matter what you do for them or give them! It just sucks that the MC couldn't help you. This is going to sound mean, but I wish your NM would just go to the other side for both your sakes. Give both of you peace! Hugs!!
NHWM,
I'm glad I could make you giggle! You needed it! It really has to be some kind of mental illness!
Side note: I have notice that all the cats seem to be calm and they're not misbehaving like they were. My NM'S cat Little seems to be happy because she is free to be outdoors more. It got to the point where my NM would let Little out for an hour or two then make her come into the house. I felt bad for Little like she was my NM prisoner. I feel at peace that my NM is gone. I just can't get over at the fact that I feel guilty. I know it wasn't her fault that she was the way she was and in that lies the guilt!
The show you describe is a huge UK ratings hit, just affectionately abbreviated to "Bake Off". I remember the episode you watched, a fairly early one I think. The creations got crazier as the show got established. Just wait until you see the "showstoppers"! Yes, everyone is terribly polite on the programme: " after you, no, after you, please, I insist" and there is no b****ing about fellow contestants - that would be very bad form. You mentioned Battenberg cake - we had to make that in school cookery class. I've never baked it since!
I'm so sorry for the continuing issue with NM. It's a rotten feeling to secretly hope they will just pass away nicely in their sleep(and soon)!
I'm fairly certain you've been there! Hang in there!🤗
Hellebore,
IMHO, if you let NM know that the pics hurt your feelings, she will rejoice in the fact that she accomplished her goal.
I have ceased letting NM know that she hurt my feelings.
And yes, you kinda answered your own question. She will twist it to be about her! How you hurt her after her thoughtful gesture!🤮
I wouldn't give her the pleasure!
When I get the venue set up, I'll take some pics and use one as my profile pic. I hope it turns out the as I see it in my mind! Lol
(((Hugs)))
We were sitting our grandson yesterday & watching a show on Netflix called The Great British Baking Show which we immediately fell in LOVE with! What we noticed straight off is how NICE the British are to one another! Vs. the Americans who are not. LOL. We are going to finish watching the series here at home. The challenges are UNBELIEVABLE that these contestants are given! The first one was to bake a Battenberg (which we had to Google) which was SO complicated, then 6 mini pineapple upside-down cakes, then cake BUSTS of famous people (!) PHEW! Have to finish watching episode 2 later today where the poor souls were making Florentine cookies. I've always enjoyed British TV & I forgot how much!
NHWM: The MC and the ALF never want to 'kick out' a resident, even when they become more than the facility can handle. My mother was WAY more than they were able to handle for at least a year before she went to the hospital and then rehab in 2019. When the nurse came to do an evaluation of her at the rehab upon release, that is when the determination was made that she could not return to the ALF, but they would take her in their MC bldg instead. That's how they were able to (nicely) get rid of her. Now, in MC.......there is nowhere for her to transition to in the same AL/MC so she would have to leave their place entirely and go into skilled nursing (which it's time for, really).
Thanks for the book tip. Places do have personalities!
Is that how it works? They wait until a hospital visit then don’t accept the resident back?
When I went to an in person support group there were two women in attendance that had husbands that had to leave their assisted living facility. They went into skilled nursing because they had health issues that exceeded their capabilities.
They explained that the AL does all they can to keep residents but it isn’t always possible. Then they give a the residents a reasonable amount of time to find a skilled nursing facility to move into.
Whew! You certainly have a lot to deal with. I hope that your mom will make a smooth transition. I like that hospice organizations go into facilities. Hospice was there for my uncle in his facility. My cousins were happy with the facility they picked. My uncle adjusted.
Jodi, agree that it's great to see our group growing with kindred spirits and yes, it is indeed good therapy here! Together we are all stronger!
NeedHelp, I would say June is our best UK month, weather wise. Where we live I find the winters difficult but the summer is magical. If you get the chance to read Cider with Rosie by Laurie Lee, you'll get a flavour of the seasons here. I live in the area he writes about, and although he wrote about bygone times, I recognise everything he describes. May can be wonderful too, as everything is so fresh and green, but today has been a total washout. Gales and heavy rain all day. Feel very sorry for pubs and restaurants as they're only allowed outdoor customers at the moment. It would have been unsafe outside at many of these places today, so they'll have lost all their business on what is a long holiday weekend.
Piper, good to read that your sister is reaching out to help more. I do think you're right about the nausea being stress related. It's a shame you can't reduce the impact of the stressor and have instead to resort to meds.
Signing off now, and back to holiday Netflix!
Hellebore, how is it that NMs, in their 'effort to plan nice events for US', turn the event into a NIGHTMARE for all concerned? I have a question about the cousins who moved far away w/o telling you: do you never want to see photos of their baby growing up? I realize NM sent you photos perhaps knowing they might upset you.......which is a nasty thing to do on her part. But the cousin's child is innocent of any wrongdoing here. While you may not want anything to do with THEM, maybe you'd still want to know about their child or watch her/him grow up? Just a thought. Re: Bringing the matter up with NM, I wouldn't bother if it's going to create more heartburn for YOU. That's how I decide things with mine; will it create more aggravation for ME than it's worth?
So we went to visit my NM yesterday after 2 weeks away. She's whittled her entire life down to Food and the Bathroom now. She's 100% obsessed with How Bad the Food is at the MC and Her Snacks which are kept in the MC's kitchen area *they don't want the residents keeping food in their rooms* and are doled out by the CGs. For many months now, NM has insisted the staff is 'stealing' her snacks when in fact the snacks are 'disappearing' into her stomach. I replenish them as necessary. I sent over that Amazon shipment a couple of weeks ago & apparently she's been carrying on that she 'has no snacks' and/or that they've 'disappeared'. So the CG had to TAKE PHOTOS of all of her snacks with her cell phone and come by during our visit to show them to me and to NM! NM then turns around & says to me "yeah my snacks are DISAPPEARING left and right". ARRRRRGH. I told her, "Mom, Patricia just showed you the PHOTOS of ALL of your snacks." Guess what she said? "You bought WAY TOO MANY SNACKS and I don't want them." I told her, "No matter what is done, it's always the wrong thing; too many snacks, not enough snacks. Eat them or don't eat them, it's up to you."
DH thinks that the next time NM has an 'event' that brings her to the hospital (she's due for one), the MC will not accept her back & that's when we'll need to get her into the SNF. I agree with him; with all of her falls and now the behavioral issues, she's become too much for them to handle I think. She gets the other residents riled up about the 'horrible food' situation, and they all get upset (is what the ED told me).
OK y'all - so bad weather did scuttle the plans for tomorrow. But now nmom is really being aggressive about when we're going to reschedule.
Part of me feels like I should tell her how much forwarding the pics upset me (to those who missed it: my nmom sent me family photos of a cousin she knows hurt my feelings deeply by not telling me they were planning to move far away. She knows part of that is that I'm upset their baby won't be raised to know us or our family history in this part of the country. She just - doesn't care. We have a narc family dynamic in which I'm not allowed to have individual feelings. I could talk all day.)
Anyway, part of me wants to tell her but part of me knows well it won't change anything at all, and all day today I'd be embroiled in drama with her and I just - don't feel like it. We'll reschedule the party for next week sometime, and I'll stay the minimum amount of time I can get away with, and if she doesn't like it, too bad. She shouldn't send me things she knows will upset me.
(See how easy? I'm getting to the point I can answer my own problems just by posting here because I'm starting to sort of know what you all will say which is basically - tough noogies if nmoms have problems, they reap what they sow in many ways.)
Chris: "Now the NM is out of my house, the stepfather dead and having gone no contact with the stepmother, I am finally starting to get some of that simple peace I’ve been longing for all my life. If I were you I wouldn’t comment on those hurtful Facebook photos. Don’t give your NM the satisfaction. I like the idea of your vacation cabin in the woods. That sounds like your “ safe space” where you can get that peace you are craving. Enjoy!"
Thank you!! I think I'll take this advice. Especially since it won't do any good and it'll just give her space to tell me how "selfish" I am - which is the projection of the world. I am the least selfish person in our family in many ways because I didn't inherit a personality disorder, thank heavens. Just so you know, I'm a big UKphile so I live vicariously through your posts of a quiet life! Can't wait to get over there again, as soon as I can (probably Scotland, since I have a lot of Scottish ancestry but also a lot of English.)
Piper I'm so glad your sister is willing to pitch in. That may be a godsend. Your body is definitely sending you signals it would be unwise to ignore. Do you feel like dementia makes your mom craftier, or more demanding, or both? What ways specifically is it so bad? Whenever you get a second.
Thanks for the wellwishes helenb!!
For myself, it's been every bit as good as therapy!!
So many of us are in pain.
Physical as well as emotional!!
Sending out prayers and good vibrations to you ALL.😘
Update: DH spoke with the gal in his office who is supposed to be in charge of the decorations for the party.
As it turns out, apparently no one was doing anything!! Crisis averted!!! Good thing I took the bull by the horns! Lol.🐃🐂
What is the nicest month for weather in the UK?
That’s fantastic that your sister offered to take your mom for awhile. Would be nice if your mom could be with her for about a month, at least a couple of weeks.
I wouldn’t move to a place that I wouldn’t be interested in either.
My warm good wishes to all who are either celebrating or suffering today (or somewhere in between). Your honesty and support are so valuable; may your God go with you, as Dave Allen used to say.
9. Appearances Are More Important Than Substance (put on a bra you look like s***!) SMH
Yep. Actually I could relate to everything on that list. I wish there was more out there about the demented narcissist. Dementia is a game changer and makes it extra, extra difficult to deal with these narcs.
I saw NM both Saturday and Sunday. Her shows aren't on TV during the weekends so she gets bored. Both days she initiated the visits. Won't be happening today. I'll be busy "working". Yesterday she told me "You look like s***" because I wasn't wearing a bra. Now, my tee shirts are heavy (nothing remotely see through) and on the baggy side. I responded that I got used to being braless during the pandemic and decided to stay that way unless I was going out or had company. She got offended somehow, again, wanting to be treated like the queen of England came over. So she had to spew the dig about how I looked like s***. I responded "I don't care what you think" and laughed it off. Meanwhile I'm thinking- who says that to their kid???? And FWIW I am a very petit person on the thin side. I also know I am not ugly. She's just a witch.
Gee I wonder why I was asking for Zofran this morning?
On a more positive note I had a good talk with my sister yesterday. She made the suggestion that we consider moving to Texas so she can help with my mom. That won't be happening as I don't want to live in Texas and in no way do I want to move my mom unless it's to MC. But I told her I appreciated the sentiment. I told her if she can take my mom more frequently that would help a lot and she agreed to do it. Well see how it plays out but at least she is reaching out, and she's taking my mom to PA on the 23rd, so I'll get a break then.
Chris I'm glad you are finally getting some peace.
Happy Birthday Hellebore!
Shell & NHWM you two are doing pretty good, all things considered. This might sound twisted but I'm happy for you both, because now you can really heal. That part is the good part.
I've missed some posts so need to catch up.