Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Elaine, yes she needs shoes in a wc....read what I wrote earlier. I have to provide her with what she needs, I have no other choice. Naturally I will be there for DH also, that goes without saying. There's no easy answer.....no "just do this or don't do that".....as everyone who's a caregiver to others knows. Mom is not in a nursing home but a Memory Care Assisted Living........different kettle of fish. They only provide SO much and the rest is up to the POA, and I'm it. Only child. It is what it is. No, they will not provide her with shoes and slippers on a woman with neuropathy will only lead to more falls to add to the 66 she's already had to date. Shoes= stability.

My grandson was born at 9:26am, 7lbs 15 oz 21" long healthy, Benjamin is his name! Red hair and smiling, so sweet I could eat him up. Such a bright spot in a troubled time, DH and I are thrilled.

Lea, just returned to this thread after a few days absent. So sorry to hear about your DH’s diagnosis - sending love and prayers for his treatment. Very pleased to read that your new grandchild is almost here. Love to you and your family. Xxx

Lealonnie, I agree with Shell on this. Does your mom really need shoes if she is in a wheelchair? What about a nice pair of fuzzy slippers?

I also agree with Shell that you need to stop jumping through hoops for your mother. You need to take care of YOU. Also, with your DH cancer he needs you. You can’t take care of anyone unless you take care of yourself.

What would happen if your mother didn’t have anyone to look after her? What if she had no siblings or children? Wouldn’t someone in the nursing home take care of her needs? Wouldn’t someone in the nursing home get her a pair of shoes?

All I’m saying is if you weren’t there for her, someone from the nursing home would get her the shoes.

Please take care of you and don’t get burnt out!!

Hugs and prayers to you. We all care!!

Lealonnie, I’m so sorry. I just read your post about your DH having cancer. Prayers being sent to you and your DH. Hugs to you.

Anxious to hear about your new grandchild.

Needhelpwithmom, yea I am very blessed to have a wonderful brother. He’s 9 years older than me but he was always there for me.

I know he didn’t help me with my mother but I never blamed him for it. He was in a healthy place and made a decision not to do any caregiving. He always told me to back off from her because of her severe mental illness. She always had mental illness but got so much worse after age 90.

But yes, I am so lucky to have my brother. I’ll always be there for him too. He lost his own son at age 21 in an automobile accident. He died instantly. We have to be there for each other.

Lealonnie, hugs to you!!! BiG HUGS!!! I hope the doctor can figure out what is going on with your mom.

Forget the bras. My mother hadn’t worn one in YEARS. She always layered her clothes anyway. She had no boobs left, lol.

Try going on Amazon for shoes or sneakers. You can order up to 7 at a time. All different shapes and sizes. Then just keep what fits and return the rest. Amazon makes it so easy.

The other day I returned something back to Amazon and I didn’t even have to package it up. The UPS store did it for free!!

Please Dont run yourself ragged. Start taking care of YOU. Hugs to you!!

Shell,

I know that you understand about crappy brothers!

Many of us have crappy siblings.

Elaine, you are so blessed to have a wonderful brother. So happy for you!

Lea,

I am so sorry for your husband’s cancer. It’s so upsetting to hear this. I will pray for both of you. I will pray for all of you.

Congrats on the upcoming grandchild. That’s so exciting!

Life has it’s challenging moments and many beautiful blessings. I am going to hope for the very best in your lives.

Lea,

The shoe thing for my mom became a real pain in the a**!

Same for socks! She needed the men’s size. Mom’s PT and OT said to buy the ones that had those gripping bottoms.

How can a tiny little mom like mine wear a size 12 (wide) women’s shoe?

Her feet were so swollen! When she was younger she wore a size 9. The. It went to 10, 11 and eventually 12.

Try and find that size anywhere. It’s near impossible! I ended up in Walmart buying an 11 men’s shoe.

Oh. when we went with my daughter to my brother’s house so she could tell my mom goodbye before moving to Denver, guess what mom had on her feet? NOTHING! No shoes! Barefoot!

She would have had me running all over creation for shoes but she would never put her precious son out.

Clothes just hang because she is barely over 100 lbs. She was in pajamas when we were at my brothers, which was a huge change. She was always a fashionista! I think PJ’s are more practical, so good for her.

She isn’t going to ask my brother to do anything extra for her, nor my sister in law. She works full time.

It’s always, I can’t bother my son. He’s retired!

She has always felt that men were more important than women.

She never called them at work ever! She never hesitated to call me at my job.

She even called me at work to tell me that my grandmother had died.

I was terribly close to my grandmother and it was horrible to get that call at work.

I don’t know what it is with our moms. It’s like they don’t think or don’t care.

I would like to think it’s because they didn’t realize but I don’t completely believe that. It was too many times to be an off day. Sure, we all have ‘off’ days but if something happens consistently, it isn’t them having a ‘bad’ day.

I have daughters so I don’t have experience with sons but I can’t imagine treating them differently than my daughters like my mom did. I know that my mom isn’t alone in this sexist behavior. I have heard others express similar experiences to mine. It’s sad.

It’s awful that I don’t have a relationship with my brothers but so be it. My mom stirred the pot so much that any chance of a healthy sibling relationship was doomed! I am not letting my brothers off the hook either because trust me, they contributed to the dysfunctional relationship.

Sorry for the long rant. It still gets to me from time to time.

Overall, I work really hard at not dwelling or focusing on the past.

Every now and then the ugly memories come to the forefront again.

It will always hurt, I suppose but, I do know that I don’t need their approval for anything anymore, thanks to the support of this forum, my husband and daughters and a great therapist!

Thanks for listening.

Shell, I can't stop jumping through hoops b/c my mother needs certain things to be provided for her at the Memory Care. Her old shoes no longer fit, so I purchased her the exact same shoes with a wider/bigger toe box which is what her PA suggested, and they did not fit. Which is why I had to go to Wal Mart and buy a slew of men's shoes so they could try them on to see which ones DID fit. She needs to have shoes on her feet b/c she pushes herself around in her wheelchair and was wearing grippy socks to let her toe heal. Those socks were contributing to her falls; she insists on getting up by herself to use the toilet (without help) and DOWN she goes. The shoes provide her with some stability. They won't ensure that she doesn't fall.............but 4 falls in 8 days is insanity. The pants she had were 'slippery' and may have been contributing to her slipping off of the recliner; same deal. In AL living, the POA must provide ALL of the supplies for the resident, period. All they can provide are incontinent supplies if needed. Which reminds me, I have to change her Depends to an XL. Sigh.
Thanks for the prayers & hugs.

The good news is my daughter in law is in active labor NOW, having my first biological grandson, ON MY SON'S BIRTHDAY which is today! He should be here any time!

The bad news is my DH was diagnosed with liver cancer yesterday. He also has non alcoholic cirrhosis which complicates the treatment situation so we're in for a long haul here. Brand new into retirement and now THIS. Just turned 63. The doctor said he has several options, but we have to see the surgeon first, and the Heptologist is working on finding out WHY he has cirrhosis to begin with (autoimmune disease? hepatitis?) Odd thing is, that dx did not make it into his chart which is unheard of.......had it been in his chart to begin with, the triple bypass surgery in Oct would NOT HAVE HAPPENED and he would have died as a result. Kind of makes me believe that wasn't a 'coincidence' and God kept him alive for a reason and that the liver cancer (small tumor 2.1 cm now) isn't going to kill him EITHER. Send prayers please.

Lealonnie, you really do have lots of patience you know. Take some time off you so well deserve. Hugs.

Xray,
So much has happened since Saturday. And tonight I really read your heading and never answer the question because I didn't know the answer--for me!

If asked this question two or three years ago I would have answered it that care for my NM "out of love" and I would have been wrong! Because of what happened Saturday and continue to happen. All these days to think about my answer is "out of being program!"

What I thought I was doing out of love...out of my own choice was pure programming! I see the truth for what it really is!😣

I have nothing left to give to this woman who I called Mother. And nothing left to give to anyone else. I feel that I am in survival mode. I Must keep what I have for myself if I am going to survive this!

Lea,
I am just so sorry that you are going through all this crap. It seems to me that your NM wants to blame EVERYTHING on making her fall except the real reason! That her legs don't work because of the neuropathy. And yes, if her feet are swollen could be CHF and it also could be her kidneys.

I'm still not sure why she need shoes because she is in a wheelchair and falls no matter what you or anyone else does. But you know this! Is it possible that she falls to get some attention? I'm not saying all the falls are done for attention but maybe some of them! We know these women need lots of attention. Just a thought!!

I wish I had some words that could make things better for you.

May God give you wisdom and understanding (for what is truly going on with your NM, & how to handle it) and most of all peace and His mercy to see you through this. You have His strength and just know this. He is with you! In Jesus name I pray. Amen


Maybe it is time for to stop jumping through hoops and let the chips fall where they may...as hard as that is sometimes that is all we can do!

Please take care of yourself & do something just for you. You deserve it!!💗

Sending you a loving & warm hugs!💗

Lea, The Queen LOL 😂

I named my Sis The Princess when she got like that.

Bought loads of new nightwear (cos she didn't pack any & old ones looked tatty & small). Previous pants blamed for falling off the bed so non-slippery cotton only & stretch tops to make it easier. And sizing! I don't need THAT size. Well... yeah you kind of do...

Just one thankyou may have been nice...

I suppose it must be so frustrating not to be able to go choose for yourself.

When I get old.. I think I may live in big floppy colourful mu-mus (is that the name?). Those big bewelled resort wear dresses. I can pretend I am on a cruise. But I will need to move into the tropics as sadly my go-to is loungewear fleece 😭.

Jodi,

I’m actually done with my caregiver days but I did way more than my share! 20 years, 15 in my home. I honestly don’t know how I survived!

Mom is now under hospice care at my brother’s home.

I call her on the phone. She can barely hear though.

I feel for you. The drama never ends. We could all write a book!

Lea,

It really is almost impossible to please them.

The sports bras sound like a great solution!

I wanted to try those for my mom but I couldn’t because of a shoulder issue. Mom can’t lift her arm up that high.

Plus, her Parkinson’s disease. Her mobility issues will continue to progress.

Pants? Geeeez! Your mom has lots of issues with clothing!

I don’t blame you one bit for turning your phone off. She can leave a voicemail.

Nhwm.......I have bought the woman 3 dozen bras the last 2 yrs! Once went to Kohls and bought 12......let her try the things on, pick what she liked and brought the rest back, just like today with the shoes. This time I bought 8 sports bras bc all I keep hearing about is TWISTED HOOKS. Ok, these have no hooks, done. NO MORE BRAS NOW. Had to get new pants too bc she was blaming the PANTS for her falling off the recliner! I don't care if she likes the pants or the shoes, this is what you get! Now she wants to know the cost of the shoes! Ffs! The ones I had to return were $178. Wal mart were 2 pair for $43. Hello??? I'm turning my phone off tonight!

Send....thanx for the info. Can't order shoes online bc IDK what size will fit The Queen. Just socks and stuff

Lea and NHWM,

God bless you both for all that you do!!

Sometimes I think that we go into this thinking it won't be forever, but then the years start adding up and we can no longer see the light at the end of the tunnel!

You both (and many others) have been my touch stone!!

From my heart "Thank You "!!

Did I mention FootSmart online, wide, extra wide, xx-wide shoes?
Brand names.

Lea,

My mom has terrible edema. The only place that I could buy shoes for her was Walmart.

I had to go in the men’s section but I couldn’t dare tell her that they were men’s shoes because she would have never worn them.

So sorry that you had a rough day. It is exhausting!

Oh my gosh, don’t even mention compression stockings!!! Those were a living nightmare all around!

What about bras? Geeeeez! My mom had no boobs. She is so thin! So buying a bra is difficult too.

Everything is difficult, right?

She complained that I didn’t buy the exact shade of face powder or lipstick, yada, yada, yada...

My mother is such a perfectionist! Just once, only once, I would have liked to hear, ‘It’s fine, honey. I know that you tried your best to please me.’

Do you think that was wishful thinking on my part? Don’t answer that! 😂

Oh well...thank goodness, my caregiver days have ended.

Now my brother and hospice are doing it.

They will never deal with it as long as I did! 20 years, 15 in my home.

I don’t know how I survived!

I know that you have been through the mill with your mom. You haven’t been in the best of health yourself.

I never dreamed that my mom would still be living. 95 is a long time! I know that you must feel the same way.

I swear for as bad off as they are, they are still going strong. Kind of like the ‘energizer’ bunny!

Elaine, my mother fell AGAIN last night....out of her wheelchair and was stuck behind her door! The marine male nurse had to pry himself in the door to get to her and pick her up off the floor. This is her 4th fall in 8 days. She's telling me she was asleep in her wheelchair and a caregiver THREW her out of it and onto the floor! Yeah, I'd say her dementia is getting worse. The doc ordered physical therapy for her which she's not interested in (so she makes up stories how it's not HER fault she keeps falling) and I told her TOO BAD YOU HAVE TO DO THE PT. She said, SAYS WHO? I said SAYS ME THAT'S WHO. So much for the arguing leveling off, huh? I'm exhausted from having to run to Wal mart and buy 6 or 8 pairs of shoes in all different sizes for her to try on today! Her feet are swollen and nothing fits, including the new socks and shoes I just bought on 2 different trips, so here I am again, running myself ragged, bringing all this crap to her. She wound up needing a men's size 10 wide shoes!! The doc is going over tomorrow to see what's happening.....I am thinking her congestive heart failure is ramping up. God give me strength.

Lealonnie, I’m so glad the Cymbalta has leveled off with your mom. It does sound like her dementia is getting worse. I agree that you should just play along with her. So glad the arguing has leveled off with her too!!

Big hugs to you.

Hellebore,
There is no body left to help her. She has chased everybody away. We never went to church and she refuses to believe she needs help except she wants help from me time-to-time!

I have an older brother by 6 yrs. He is just like her. SERIOUSLY! They are two peas in a pod! He is an alcoholic and a junkie! He is very abusive emotionally, verbally, and physically! All he wants is my NM SS checks, this house, so he can pick through it like a leftover turkey and have my 77 yr old NM wash his clothes, cook and clean up after him and his HOMELESS buddy! So he is out of the question!!! Haven't talked to him in 2 yrs after he tried to blackmail me, which is a long story! Any hoo, He got mad at me because I laughed at him & told him to go ahead and try it then I told him to never call or come over here again! He has sent people by here calling me names when I am outdoors, or threatened me!

So no, there is no one!

Seniorhelp and Kimber,

Welcome!!

I didn't know when I first posted this that so many of us are dealing with caring for narcissistic parents!

You're insight is most appreciated!!

Kimber, I think you have absolutely got the approach right! Constant vigilance is required, as they will never give up!

My mom is a NM also - but about 15 years ago - my DH and i both had had it with his Narc parents and my mom. The straw that broke his back was when his parents called him during a break in a presentation he was giving for 300 people and berated him for something they had an ongoing disagreement about. The issue - they didn't want us to fly directly to a cousin's wedding but to fly to their town, ride the 10 hours there and 10 hours back. Totally unreasonable. He flipped out on them and went no contact for six months. About the same time i went no contact on my mom for the 20th mutli-page, swearing, capitalized words, underlined words, exclamation point letter about what a @#$# daughter i was and that she wished i had never been born. This was because i was going out of town and would not be here for her to stay with one weekend that she wanted to for some events here. Hotel or stay with friends -nope.

We went to counseling together and after getting past our anger and guilt, we learned to calmly say "i love you, but i have to go" and either hang up or physically leave when they started in on us. The first time we each did this we were skipping around the house and high-fiving each other - and got to enjoy "no" so much we over used it as if we were two year olds.

Long story short - we DO have pleasant conversations and relationships with our parents - and we do enjoy time together. they learned after years of our boundary enforcement. Did they like it - hell no. Did they fight us? Yes, over and over. Did they get friends and relatives to call us and chew us out? Yes - all the time. We never explained - just "good talking to you, i have to go" click. Without explaining to every friend and relative - it fizzled out. Nothing to grab onto - nothing to fight about.

It took years to get to where we are. BUT you always have to be on your guard. The NM and NF will come up with a new demand - especially as they are aging. I have said "NO" to washing windows, to cleaning apartments, to having them live with us, to donating money so they can live beyond their means. Each and every time when the Narc is ready to get into it - we disengage - we leave. Or hang up. But we are calm and polite.

It is possible to have a good relationship eventually - but you have to hold the boundaries, over and over, and be on guard for attempts to encroach. Good luck.

My mother is a narcissist. I refuse to have anything to do with her. They can't be cured and will never change. I want a happy life, so I don't have any regrets. I went decades of her abusing me. That is enough. I am glad your more empathetic than I am.

Hellebore ,

I've gone low contact with my Mom, however now she finds lame excuses for calling me almost everyday!

Sometimes I don't answer and then the guilt sets in.
I'm still working on my guilt issue!

It's just so doggone frustrating!!!

(((Hugs)))

I think NM has worn out her welcome at her ALF.

In an effort to try and get Mom to stay put instead of moving into an apartment, I have been leaving messages for the Director to call me and let me know if they have a smaller room available. The monthly savings would help. This woman will not call me back!!

I honestly can't say that I blame her!! She's washed her hands of my NM! "Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out!" UGH!!

Lealonnie: "The less I have to deal with her histrionics and drama, the better off I am. The better off YOU will be too. I realized long ago she'd never ever be happy or satisfied, yet here I was, STILL jumping thru all these fiery hoops and burning myself mercilessly, WHAT FOR????? That's when I was able to do less and stop feeling guilty. There's no pleasing these women, so stop trying so hard, you know? Take care of YOU and your DH, mother will be fine."

I have to think someone would call me if there's an emergency. What's keeping me from picking up the phone just to check in, tho, is I know it'd be all about her and how miserable she is instead of anything going on with me or the fact that she gave 10 bins of my stuff to Goodwill. I guess I'll just keep milking the situation as long as I can.

still dealing: "And my mother, nag nag nag, complain complain complain, nothing is ever good enough...today she said she is 'giving up" and 'doesn't care anymore'. Ok."

Yeah, mine does stuff like this too. I'm so sorry so many of us have to deal with all their BS.