Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Just come back to the forum after a few days as my MIL became very ill last weekend and moved into a hospice two days ago - I’ve spent the week giving support to my DH and taking care of everything at home while he made the trip over to see her one last time. I’m sure I’ve mentioned in the past that whenever there has been a situation where a family member or friend needs a lot of attention, my mother will make a fuss to ensure she gets the full attention she feels she deserves. I’m not sure this is even a conscious thing, more like an automatic reaction. I had a taste of this again this week. She knows my MIL is dying and trotted out the usual cliches, but there was no compassion or feeling behind the words - she immediately then turned back to talking about herself. Then yesterday she phoned me in hysterics about receiving a letter from the pensions office, suggesting her pension might be reduced and needing help with writing a reply. She kept saying she couldn’t deal with it all, it was all too much for her and I’d have to do it for her (no polite request, just the usual entitled demand). I had planned to drop some things off with her anyway so said I’d take a look at the letter then. When I got there, she again tried to get me to go inside even though she knows visits are still not allowed during lockdown. I again refused, but read over the letter outside. It was basically just the standard acknowledgment letter confirming she’d notified them of her change of address. It specifically said no action was required from her. I explained all of this but she was determined that I write to them and got quite annoyed when I read it out aloud to prove no action was needed. It turned out she hasn’t actually read the letter at all, but had seized it as an opportunity to rope me in to doing something for her because my attention was focused on my DH and MIL for a change. Her behaviour disgusts me. I know that this is a personality disorder and these types of people aren’t necessarily aware of the impact of their behaviour, but I also know I don’t have to put up with such attention seeking hysteria. I contrast her behaviour with that of my lovely sweet MIL, and I’m not ashamed to say that a small part of me wishes it was my mother who was in the hospice instead of my MIL. I recall her doing a similar thing on the day of my FIL’s funeral, fussing about and getting the way with her various demands, making the day even more difficult than it needed to be. Ugh, these people really disgust me.

Helenb, *put up with* is just not in my nature! (Maybe that's why my blood pressure is up a bit 😂).

Generous folk give out $20 every now & then toward fuel for all their trips. Reasonable folk (or those without a spare cash) say thankyou & mean it.

Hmm my guess is Mother is testing your limits. Whether from really wanting to test your limits, or just stirring the pot to get a drama show - I don't know.

Testers are like four year olds testing the mettle of a new kindy friend. How far can I push her before she snaps?
Maybe it's reassuring to know the edge of one's power?
Sometimes you catch their secret smile as they make you snap at them...

Or a Drama Queen. Wants to set the stage for a great show, just for her own entertainment.

Hmm depends which..

Wth testers I would state clearly what my boundary was. I can drive you to ONE appointment next week, you will need to arrange taxi or other transport for any others. Then stick to it. Very important to stick to your word.

With Drama Queen I would mumble hmm, yeees, right & other boring grey rock answers.

Or maybe I'd ask outright: Why are you telling me how much money you have given to Brother? Keep up the Why for each answer. Might be fun..

Helen, what your mother is doing is typical .....treating you, the scapegoat, like the second class citizen, and your brother like the favored golden child that he is.

Read this article

https://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/golden-child-and-scapegoat/

She IS rubbing it in that she gives your brother everything and you nothing, it's what narcs DO. If it were me, I wouldn't be worried about offending her......shes certainly not worried about offending you, quite the opposite. Call her out on the BS and tell her to call your BROTHER next time she needs anything bc you're taking a few MONTHS off. It's not ok to be disrespectful to you like this while you're bending over backwards to help her out. She's acting very mean and spiteful.

And if you decide to go back and help her out again down the road, lay down some firm boundaries, including how much she can contribute to the gas consumption she's using up! Chipping in for expenses is what normal people DO when loved ones are helping out. Except narcs think the world owes them a living, but not the golden child.

Study up on NPD so you can learn strategies to use and how to protect YOURSELF!

May I vent a little, or ask for advice/reassurance? I think I mentioned that my mother has given my brother (golden child; two incomes) an undisclosed but apparently largeish gift of money to go towards his car expenses, while we - the ones whose car she uses every week (self-employed and retired) - got nothing when we had to buy a new battery. And get no help with petrol when we drive her to places she needs to go.

I didn't like the unfairness of this but was prepared to swallow it, as usual, but every time we see her now she mentions it, as if rubbing it in. I am curious about why she is doing this. It seems to me that either she is just so cruel that she doesn't care how unfair and unpleasant it is to do this, or she is losing mental competence and truly doesn't realize. I don't want to believe the former, and the latter isn't great either!

It doesn't seem worth our pointing out to her, even semi-jokingly, that we could do with this kind of help too, since we are the ones she relies on for everything, as it would quite likely offend her and create a nasty atmosphere that would only rebound on us anyway. But just being silent and accepting it is hard, as it offends my sense of justice! It may also make her think we are such wimps that she can treat us as poorly as she likes and we won't make a fuss - which is, sadly, true!

Does anyone else have experience of this sort of thing, and are we right just to put up with it?

stilldealing..........I have a very large antique butter churn in the kitchen that I throw coins into; there's probably $400 or more in there right now. I'd need 10x that many to throw coins into for 'bad mommy thoughts', ugh. Sad how social pressure is torturing you to go see your mother; nobody understands ANYTHING about ANY of this, do they? Only those who have to suffer through life with an NM. Try not to let any of that social pressure seep through; I know it's hard.

The confusion from NM is from the Cymbalta............now it's even worse with the withdrawal from coming off the stuff. She was on it once before (for neuropathy pain) the January before last and it helped her with the pain, a lot, but made her confusion worse, so the doc & I thought we'd try it again, that the trade off would be worth it. It wasn't. The confusion was SO horrible that she fell 8x in 10 days & didn't even realize she was on the floor, so she's being weaned off again. This time, she was on the stuff for 2 months (vs 2 weeks last time) so the weaning is taking longer & the confusion is like nothing I've ever witnessed. But then again, with my NM, it's ALWAYS something unbelievably ridiculous with high drama involved. She doesn't do well with meds at ALL, and now she'll start carrying on again about the agonizing pain in her legs, but there's no meds (other than the Cymbalta) that TOUCH the nerve pain. One thing after another.

Yes, Lea, the rubber band trick. If you try it, let me know how it goes for you? I've tried making lists of all the good things I like about myself, what my friends like about me, etc. but right now I am in a bad way since I feel so much social pressure to interact with this strange thing called a mother. The contradictions, illogical arguments, irrationality and just plain meanness for meanness sake make my head spin (and ache)! On a lighter note, some years ago I decided to quit using curse words. So I used a 'swear jar'. Everytime I uttered or thought a swear word, I had to put a quarter in the jar. It was remarkable how quickly I quit using swear words, because just having to interrupt my workflow to get up, get a quarter out of my purse and put it into the jar was enough negative reinforcement to make the old brain stop before the swear word came out...very effective. (My co-workers bought a pizza with the quarters. That was the deal we made. LOL.) So I wonder if the swear jar would work for bad mommy thoughts? I am pretty sure more than a pizza will be involved...Anyway, I'm serious. Would love to know if one can reprogram the negative loops in the brain caused by narcissistic parenting...
And I am sorry to hear of your mother's confusion. Sounds like something new? Perhaps a talk with her nurses/caregivers may shed light?

stilldealing, sad isn't it, but they're all the same in so many ways. My NMs oldest sister was SO horrible, she was guilting her DD right to the bitter end with her narc ways, even with advanced Alzheimers (living in the ALF down the street), and finally became catatonic the last 6 months or so of her life. I found that to be a huge BLESSING b/c all that vicious talk stopped. My cousin thought Oh What A Terrible Thing To Say, that it was a blessing her NM was unable to speak! To this day (and her NM died in 2013), she still feels like she was The Bad Daughter and didn't do enough for her, when she practically gave up her whole entire life FOR her NM. She never had children, and considered her very elderly parents 'her children' and has allowed pain & suffering to rule her life. I'm VERY GLAD I didn't take that road myself, and I'm glad you didn't either. There is NO REASON for us to take on such a mentally ill attitude!!!!!!!!! That belongs to our NMs, not to US! Good idea to wait for your NM to become non verbal before going to the hospice home for a visit, since you have to go alone. Sigh.

Anyway, NM did call here again last night, over & over again until I answered the phone. She's highly confused and asking to 'drive her car to see her papa' which is nonsense, of course. She's got 1 week left of the Cymbalta (taken every 3rd day now) before she's totally off of it) and is WAY more confused than I've ever heard her. She was not acting mean or snarky at all, just super confused and asking the same questions over and over and OVER again, not understanding what I was telling her. We are going over there today at 3 pm for an inside visit more to see WHAT she's looking like during the daytime hours and so we can have the entire weekend off (we normally go for an outside window visit on Sundays which we will not do this week). I think she's probably ok..........it's just bizarre to hear THIS level of confusion from her. She made no mention of coming here to my house, so that's a good thing.

My DH gets so upset when NM makes me feel small. He's shocked at how she can erase all the good feelings I have about myself in 2 seconds flat. I love your rubber band idea...........I've heard it being used for lots of other reasons, but love your use for it!

Lea-your last comment is my mother's behavior to a T. (Using telephone time to unleash, b/c there are no witnesses. Keeping 'face' in front of third parties...). I, too, always take my husband to any visits with mother, b/c she curbs her tongue then and is generally somewhat civil. However, the hospice unit she is in only allows one visitor at a time (covid rules). I am mother's designated scapegoat (always have been, always will be), so I have told sibs i probably won't visit until she reaches non-verbal stage of active dying, or until i hear she has changed her tune. (Blame game, sneaky information forays, threats, behind back insults, etc. are all still in play. Sigh...)
Please consider that your husband, children and grandchildren's and YOUR welfare eclipse those of your mother at this time. She is safe, cared for, and is having her needs met. Perhaps step back from the tele calls (see first para above). When I took that first step, an enormous burden was lifted right away. (No more covert attacks. Hmmm-guerilla warfare?) Use the covid rules to your advantage to get much needed peace of mind. Think of your husband and his love for you, your children's love for you, and start erasing your mother's faulty narrative that you are not lovable. I wore a rubber band around my wrist for awhile, and snapped it whenever my mother's narrative started poisoning my mind (her narrative for me that she wants to re-instill is that I am selfish, hard, unloving and unlovable, a bad daughter, etc.). When I snapped the band, I deliberately turned my thoughts to my husband's love, our healthy relationship, his adult children's respect and affection for me, and the dear faces of my beloved (step) grandchildren when they rush up for a hug and sneak into my lap. I think of the incredibly supportive relationships I have maintained with my 4 siblings (courtesy of my mentally healthy, kind and committed father) despite mother's contrary manipulations. I think of the lifelong friends who are always ready to give a kind word. Maybe try the rubber band trick to train your brain to a default setting of loving yourself for who you really are? I think I may go find that rubber band again...

Lea,

This is where I lagged behind you. Too often, I tried to reason with my mom. BIG mistake!

I was desperately trying to fix things and have harmony in our lives.

Ha! Doesn’t always work out. Then we learn to move forward in a new direction, right?

It took me forever to learn that it isn’t always possible to get others to see our point of view.

Kudos to you for successfully avoiding conflict and teaching others what works and doesn’t work in our relationship with our mothers.

Stilldealing......you are right! I've said to NM before, I see that you are not in a good mood so I am hanging up the phone now and will speak to you when you are in a better frame of mind.

When we go visit, the past year has been window visits over the phone, I NEVER go alone. So she is always civilized bc my DH is there and a CG is always in and out of the room. Gotta keep up The Nice Face for others. But.....if DH goes to the car for a moment, she sinks her teeth into my neck! This is why the phone calls are bad. She has me ALL to herself and can unleash her vitriol. I'm deathly sick and tired of being The Good Daughter and STILL being treated like the villain.

It was so wonderful to soothe my grandson and hear my DH say how much he loves me, then get treated so badly by my own MOTHER. Such a dichotomy. Makes me KNOW she's the crazy one, but I'm still so sick and tired of all of it.

Thanks Elaine, I know you understand what I'm going thru. My mother does have dementia and mental illness, I know, but after TEN YEARS of this crap, I'm so tired I can't function. I'm not putting up with it anymore, nor am I having an ongoing discussion of why she can't come live here. 68 falls, incontinence and being wheelchair bound is more than enough and that doesn't BEGIN to address the issues she has. It takes 2 CGs to get her out of bed in the morning and here I am, taking care of a DH who just had major heart and lung surgery and is now facing liver cancer! Today he goes to the surgeon at 4, DD the RN is taking him. Praying for the surgeon to say he can remove the tumor.

I spoke to DH who agrees we should dx the visit to MC tomorrow.

I'm really sorry you had to hear all that mean stuff from your NM at the end. What a rotten memory to be left with. Sending you a big hug and prayers for healing.

Elaine,

You had so much patience with your mom. I don’t know how you held up as well as you did.

I know that you are speaking from years of experience when you speak to Lea and others on this thread.

You, Lea and everyone else on this thread has been through the mill many times over.

Caregiving becomes so heart wrenching while in the throws of it.

Still,

I’m so sorry for your struggles. It becomes difficult to stomach the pain that we go through with our family.

I had to learn how to distance myself too, when needed.

It’s a balancing act, isn’t it?

Lea-good idea to let those calls go to VM. And cancel a visit if she is in a 'bad mood'. I've been practicing a stat phrase to use on my NM if she starts in on me (provided I do see her before her end). Like this: 'Mother, I see that you are not feeling well enough for a visit today, and are not enjoying seeing me. So I am leaving now.'* I have read about these kinds of interventions on multiple websites, and perhaps they work for some. I'm not sure how this will work with my severely disordered NM; but if she starts raging, she can rage at the 'empty, bare walls' in her cushy private suite at the hospice unit. (She refused to allow us to bring in any photos, artwork, or bed coverings to decorate her space. Has to be the martyr, ya know.)
Focus on your new grandson. I'm so happy you were able to soothe him and give him your love and care...he is really what matters now. Our mothers 'have made their beds'...
* I like this phrase because: it acknowledges she is very ill (she wants that attention and can't refute the statement), and it acknowledges that my presence makes her unhappy (puts the conundrum on her to reconcile her desire for me to visit so she can chew me out, but that I don't visit because of her own verbally abusive behavior. Throws the responsibility of her actions onto her...

Lealonnie, I’m so sorry your mom has gotten so mean again!! If I were you I WOULD NOT go visit her tomorrow. Go ahead and cancel it. You can go another time.

She put a sour note on a special day you had with your grandson. You don’t need to see her tomorrow snd listen to more of her wrath.

My mom got so mean at the end. So mean to tell me she didn’t love me. So mean to think I was trying to kill her!!! So mean to think I was trying to give her a heart attack because I showed her my rag doll cat, (she hates cats, always did.) She said I purposely showed her my cat knowing that she hates cats and trying to give her a heart attack!!! INSANITY!!!!

Im so glad you got to hold your new grandson. What a bundle of joy!!! Hang on to that lovely memory!!! You will have many fun times with your new grandson.

Take care. Big hugs to you!!!

Stilldealing, sorry you are going thru this with your NM but glad you are taking care of yourself. I feel your pain. My NM is basically off the Cymbalta again bc she was falling so much and so confused she didn't even realize it. But she was pleasant the past 2 months, now she's mean and angry once again. She called here last night after I'd gotten home from holding my beautiful grandson for the first time. He was fussy and gassy. I rocked him....he looked up at me and smiled and fell asleep peacefully for 90 minutes!

So the phone rings at 5:45.....its her. I don't know why I can't come and live at your house, is what she says. I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT ME. I calmly said mom, there is no possible way I can care for you here in this house, I am simply not capable. And I listed off 15 reasons why, to start. She says, "where there's a will, there's a way, that's what I know" and she hangs up!

I'm letting her calls go to vm now. We had an indoor visit scheduled for 3pm tomorrow but when I told her, she made a noise like Oh Yeah, Big Deal. So I may cancel it. Gotta plan to place her in the SNF soon, by summer at the latest, her money is running out. Boy I can hardly wait for the mean talk THEN, huh? I pity her roommate

Addressing issues with 'no contact'/'low contact': these are not easy, but sometimes necessary choices when dealing with narcissistic family members. I have maintained very low contact for many years with my NM, but even the infrequent calls/visits/family holidays provoked nothing but depression, anxiety and resentment (that a 'mother' could be so mean toward own decent children). My mother has now been moved to a very nice in-patient hospice only facility, since keeping her at home with RTC care became unmanageable (largely due to mother's own poor decision making on a day-to-day basis). She, of course, hates it. Hates us. Hates everyone and everything, and boy, is she going to tell us off! Put us in our places! She is really directing her venom toward me, to the point family members have advised me to stay away from any visits. So I am not visiting or calling (no contact, essentially). And the smear campaign has begun: she is complaining to my siblings that I am essentially a rotten person, projecting her own poor mothering onto me ( I did not have children but enjoy extremely good relationships with my two children by marriage, and grandchildren. She resents that I am a good parent/grandparent; I think it reminds her of her own parental failings.) She has sent out 'flying monkeys' (getting my beloved brother to pass along her insults...) So the moral of the story is: even if you go No Contact, the NM will stop at nothing to reach you with her hatred. At this point, I am reconciled to never seeing or speaking to her again. So sad, when, if she would allow it, I would be very loving, kind and attentive in these last days. But I must be loving and kind to myself, and refrain from walking through those doors that only open to hell. Thanks, all, for comfort and safety here.

NHWM,

Amen!!!

I honestly wish I had it in me to cut ties altogether with NM!!

I think for me, it boils down to what I can live with. That most certainly doesn't mean I am any better or worse than anyone else in our situation. It means that I am becoming self aware. That's a great start!!

I may come to the point that I feel I no longer have any choice other than going NC.

We're ALL on similar journeys!
Maybe not all of our paths are the same, but we're ALL striving to get to the same destination. PEACE!😘

Jodi,

You say that you have had others advise you to completely cut ties with your mom. It’s not something that everyone is able or willing to do. As long as you set boundaries, you’re doing okay.

Some people have had to completely end relationships with toxic family members. I had to do that with my brothers.

What I find sad is that people get wrongly judged for cutting off relationships.

Others don’t always comprehend the situation for what it is.

They have unrealistic ideas about family.

Some people do have warm and wonderful families with normal ups and downs.

Others have truly disturbing situations that make it nearly impossible to live in harmony.

I hate it when people feel that we can become miracle workers and the issues will melt away. It’s really frustrating.

I stopped trying to explain my situation to insensitive, nosey people. People like that will only see and hear what they choose to.

Why do people feel as if they need to know everyone else’s business anyway?

I don’t have the need to know everything about everyone else in my life.

I don’t pry. I listen and allow people to tell me if they wish to say something personal, otherwise I don’t ask.

I have had to distance myself from a neighbor who thinks that I should have given my mom free passes for everything.

She made ridiculous comments that truly worked on my nerves like, “We only have one mom and she will be gone one day! You won’t be able to say that you are sorry.”

Or she would say, “There is no one that will ever love you as much as your mom!”

She didn’t like my response to the ‘death’ remark. I told her that we are ALL going to die one day.

Piper: I agree with BBrooklyn. Let your sister and her fam visit with your mother where you are, but shortly before she arrives, you and DH announce you 'must' be elsewhere. Or just be direct: "my H and I are going to use your visit for some much needed time away for ourselves." Period. No excuses; no explanations. Then leave before she arrives; and don't return until her last few hours of visit. You stated she knows it's difficult for you, but is taking the easy avoidant way to get out of providing any care for your mother. It is, unfortunately, human nature to let others do the 'dirty work' and try to make up with platitudes. I learned a long time ago, that if one keeps 'hoping' others will do their fair share because...well..its the right thing to do, then just keep on hoping. But if you don't stick up for yourself, others will continue to use your goodwill, your hope, to shirk their share. You just have to say "I am done", or "Nope, can't do", or 'i won't be there for that visit'... Not easy at first, but hey, practice makes perfect! You certainly have no obligation to stick around for a family visit and play host, even if you like your family. Less so if you are resentful because of the 'fair share' thing. Just some thoughts for you today.

EP; I think that your sister's visit is the PERFECT time for you and your DH to schedule some time away, even if you just go to a local hotel and hang out for a few days BY YOURSELF.

Stop letting these folks rule your life.

While covid gave many a reprieve from visits they would rather not have, I've had the opposite problem, I could not get away from my mother! I couldn't even suggest she find someone else to socialize with, or go on a trip, nothing.

Today I am taking her for her second vaccine and all I can think is PLEASE make plans to go visit someone, preferably an extended visit. But NOOOOO. She tells me yesterday that my sister and her fam want to come for a visit soon.

I am so furious at my sister. There is a short direct flight between us. My sister lives in a mansion, so plenty of room, built in pool, etc.

But her son wants to see the ocean!! They want a beach vaca. Nevermind that they travel extensively, including with their son, and did so all during covid including beach trips.

UGH- I have told my sister many times to have my mom at HER place, she only does 3-4 days anyway. And now after a YEAR of being locked down with my mom constantly around she wants them to come here! That is NO break for me. When they are here I am EXPECTED by ALL to join in the happy family time! To be an actual host! No way! My mom doesn't realize the intense resentment I have for both of my siblings who do NOTHING to actually help anything, and I get ZERO support for all I do for OUR mother.

The real kicker is my sister knows full well how bad this is for me. Yet she will call me and play dumb before this trip, like clockwork. "Hi, just wanted to see how you are doing" when she knows how bad it is, because she herself can't go more than a few days in my mother's company.

This time when she calls to let me know they are coming, I'm going to tell her she makes me sick and to leave me and my DH completely out of their plans, period.

Helenb63, I remember your situation & I've wondered how you were getting on. It's really quite a pickle (polite word - I could think of others).

My DH was doing things (pre Covid) for my family that I stepped back from too. He also didn't see it as a problem - he is not as emotionally attached/involved. Different things, but I do get where you are coming from. He says he is a separate person & can choose what he does separate to me. Yes true. But I feel that contributes to the problem, not to a solution.

Covid was our little reprieve too.

I need to sleep on this problem.

Here in the UK we are nearing the end of tight lockdown restrictions, and we have been given back the key fob that lets us in to my mum's AL building. I don't know if I'm being paranoid (I think it's very likely I'm getting things out of proportion!), but my mild, conflict-hating, enabling husband is slipping back into doing things for my mother that she can do herself, such as answering her phone and opening her mail. I tried to explain that this may seem kind but is actually infantilizing her and making her even less able than she already is, but he ignored me - he thinks it's just me overreacting again. He may be right, but I can't bear the thought of going back to where we were a year ago - fighting over her - and am so sad that he just doesn't understand how I feel about her (though I know that no one else can unless they have been the scapegoat child of a narcissist).

My counsellor is leaving the job next month, and although he has helped me quite a lot with my self-esteem problems and trying to persuade me that my life matters as much as my mother's, I am still stuck in the apparently unsolvable dilemma of not really wanting to care for my mother but being too 'nice' (and afraid of others' opinions) to abandon her. We *have* reduced the amount of visits we make, but she is already complaining about how bored and miserable she is in lockdown (as if any of us are enjoying it!) and I am jittery about what we do with her when things are back to normal. It's no surprise my back/shoulder pain has got worse again - I can never relax.

Stilldealing,

I completely understand how you feel!!

I have had many people advise me to completely cut ties with my NM and it's probably great advice!
However, the one thing I know to be true is that I have to be able to look at myself in the mirror every day!!!

No matter how much I hate what my Mom is and what she does, I will never forgive myself if she passes alone and afraid.

Call it F.O.G. Call it years of programming, but I know I have to go the distance (still settings boundaries of course) to keep my heart intact.

Do what you have to do for YOU!!

Your Mom may only have a short while left, but you still have a full life to live!!

(((Hugs)))

Catching up on comments here, I see a common thread of anger, meanness and fear of dying in those NM's at end of life. My mother is at the tail end of her life (next few days, maybe a week or two?) I would actually visit her frequently during this time (just because I am still a decent enough person to feel sorry for her in her situation-knowing she feels lonely, and is very scared of dying [and so holding on 'for dear life'], but she is SO mean, and uses every visit to complain about everything horrible that is happening to her, and of course, it is all her children's fault, etc etc. I realize NM's are just hardwired to be nasty, but really? Is it too much to ask that an intelligent person be able to reflect just a little, and ask herself: is this really how i want to interact with my children during these last few days together? Are these really the last memories I want to leave of me with my children? It just boggles my mind. So i will just visit maybe one more time or two (depending on how long she lasts), for a few minutes before end of visiting hours. I'm so tired (as everyone here knows and can speak to), of not being able to be my true self around this person, watching everything I say to deny ammunition, pretending to be something other than what I am just so that i fit her narrative of what SHE wants to believe I am...
The last year has been really tough. Due to her prognosis, I have had to have more contact with her than i previously allowed (to manage her affairs), and due to constantly being 'on guard', I feel like i have become hardened in a way i don't like. I know there are no answers. I just fervently hope after she dies that I can just be ME. Thank you all for sharing your experiences here; I feel so much for you. Please try to remember who you really are and not lose yourself in caring for these NM's.

Lea,

My hubby is a Doctor! Lol.🤯

Thanks for your concern!!

(((Hugs)))

We are both Covid NEGATIVE said the email from Kaiser today, thank God.

Elaine....that cake story is awful. Makes me cry to read it, and boy can I relate. What saved me as a kid was knowing I was adopted. Not blood related to this crazy woman. I was able to be objective.....detached a bit. To step back and say NO this is NOT what a normal parent acts like. I separated myself emotionally from the bedlam and was able to function knowing it wasn't Me it was Her. Still took a huge traumatic toll on me, but not as badly as it COULD have.

Jodi..please go to the doctor. Are you sure you just passed out, or did you have a seizure? Seizing feels like passing out to YOU....only someone witnessing it would know if you were convulsing. Go get checked. Your health comes FIRST.

Ep...your mother's text was foul, just foul, and I'm sorry you felt the need to apologize to her for something you weren't guilty of to begin with.....thats her goal with the silent treatment. It's good that anger is setting in now......its better than guilt and makes it easier for us to change our thinking patterns and behaviors with these NMs. You are a good daughter and SHE is a sorry excuse for a mother. What kind of loving mother says "what a joke" when her DD says she has a lot on her plate? I'd sooner cut my tongue out than say such a thing to either one of my kids.

Today my NM asked how my daughter in law was doing with the new baby. I said she was exhausted with the cluster feedings all day. Know what NM said? "Who cares? She wanted a baby, that's what she gets....just what she wanted." And she laughed.

Stilldealing, feeling guilt with these women who are incapable of empathy is a pure waste of emotion. They'd laugh at us if they knew they were inducing guilt in us. Think about THAT statement for a while and let it sink in.

Pelar 20- You outlined a very good way to deal with a narcissistic parent: limit calls to those days good for you (once a week if your mother is well cared for is certainly sufficient; set the tone of the conversation (I still struggle with that; my mother's default setting is 'complain and criticize, with no word edgewise'). I'm prepared to address her complaining on next visit, by telling her I will not listen to a litany of groundless complaints, and then leave if she doesn't comply. I don't think it will be easy: my mother is very crafty and determined to punish if she doesn't get her way in all things. We'll see. I also like that you limit your visits to once a month. I used to do that, but now that she is at the end of her life, I am moving to once every two weeks for limited periods (more for siblings sake than otherwise). Do you have any advice regarding how to ditch preprogrammed (by NM) guilt? I really need to work on this, and will appreciate any help/advice/reading resources anyone here can offer. Thanks all!

Yes we do!!

Thanks Early!!

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Hope you are ok, xray. Caregivers are just plain tired. I walked into my mom bedroom door with my black eye shield on in the middle of the night a few months ago, but only got a little bruise. I usually take it off but not this time. I never heard the end of it with my niece, she watches me like a hawk. She fell flat on the car floor while helping me lift my mom in position. She also fell flat on her back on a bed cushion in the middle of the night in my moms room. We all need to be careful these days with lack of sleep and all. Take care.