Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Piper, you may be right about extreme compassion fatigue. We can't underestimate the effect the pandemic has had on our underlying health and mental wellbeing, on top of the existing stresses of caregiving. I feel there is only so much we can deal with and cope with at any given time. It may be that you have reached your threshold and so now are just running on automatic. If you want move away, can you? I mean, what's stopping you if you really want to? If it's money, then fair enough, but if it's fear of your mother's reaction, just do it. It will force her to get help/a companion elsewhere. Remember I moved my mother out after 10+ years with us. I don't think I ever thought it would happen, but there was a tipping point when I realised I needed to do it, for my own health, and to hell with the consequences. Several months on, I feel I am getting my own "space" back, despite the covid restrictions, and my mother has regained the weight she had lost by not feeding herself properly in the final year of living with us. This proved to me and others that she needed extra care, despite her protestations at the time. It does sound to me as though you are reaching your tipping point. Whatever you decide to do, get your family involved in helping you to get the outcome you need.

EP: According to the MC & her doc, my NM is 'nowhere near ready for hospice'. Sigh. I spoke with NM yesterday morning & she claims to be 'very sick' and when I asked with what, she 'doesn't know'. Everything is wrong, she's 'sick with everything' which translates to 'nothing', just more of the usual BS. And when I asked her to see the doc, she said "oh she's full of sh*t" meaning she DID see the doc *as she does weekly* and the doc found NOTHING wrong with her, as usual, which means the doc is 'full of sh*t'. This is how to translate BS. Anyway, I called over to the MC to 'fact check', spoke to the nurse who I like a lot, and she said mom is fine. The only thing wrong with her .............drumroll please............is a small sore on her right nostril which they're treating with 3x antibiotic cream!!!!!!!!!!! I told the nurse to offer to send her to the ER if she complains about being 'so so so sick' as she does to me. The nurse laughed & said she never complains to them about being 'so so so sick.' Nice, huh?

So she called me 3x yesterday, filled with aggravation and anger, to have a big pity party for herself saying she's the 'family stranger' and other assorted nonsense, back to her OLD former self before the 2nd Cymbalta fiasco. So yes EP, you are right: she goes 'downhill' then rallies, like a miracle, and so we go, up and down like yo-yo's, waiting for a REAL crisis to hit, which never seems to happen. Just more fabricated stories for MY sake. And yes, I think she spitefully doesn't answer the phone just to get me worried. Meaning, I will stop calling over there. If she wants to talk, she can call ME and I can choose to answer or let it go to voice mail. I have a ton of compassion fatigue myself these days, although not like yours EP b/c my NM is living in a MC facility but she lives WAY TOO MUCH IN MY HEAD b/c I allow it. That's gotta change PRONTO.

You are right about waiting for your NM to be judged incompetent. These women can Play The Game so well that it can wind up taking 10 more years for your NM to be judged incompetent! Plus, they live to be 100. You are best off making plans for yourself and for her care NOW w/o waiting for any declarations of anything by anybody. Declare YOURSELF fed up with all the BS and make your decisions accordingly. I feel for you, deeply, I really do. I like Chris's idea about moving away. Far far away. What is stopping you? If you are able to do so, DO IT.

Hiring a companion sounds all fine & well, but the bottom line is.............NM is still THERE, on your property, 200 feet away, demanding your time & attention! PLUS she's likely to be even MORE intolerable b/c now she's being 'forced' into having a hired companion when, in her twisted mind, it 'should be' YOU who 'should' want to do it all the time for free! Right? That would be my NMs twisted thinking 100%..........she says it now, that I should WANT her to live with me, etc., never taking her mobility/incontinence issues into consideration at all. Never mind MY life and MY marriage, etc. That's how they roll.

Chris,

I am so very sorry for your loss of your mother in law.

Many hugs!

Lea,

Wouldn’t you think that your mom would qualify for hospice?

It’s sad, really. Your mom has numerous health issues! What else are they looking for?

Lea, I am so sorry what you are going through with your mom. A SORE on her NOSTRIL??? And she is carrying on about it to you?? You were right to tell the nurse to send her to the ER if she is so so so sick!!!

I know what you mean how our mothers are STUCK IN OUR HEADS!! My mother died Oct 31st and she is starting to FINALLY get OUT of my head now after 6 months since she deceased. I find that me going on a diet, exercising, going back to the gym, writing down my thoughts, talking on here, talking to my therapist, going to work, ALL HELPS. As the saying goes, TIME heals all wounds. Unfortunately, when the wounds are still in our HEAD, it takes a lot longer to HEAL. Hugs to you. I know what you are going through. I hope these tips will help you when she gets stuck in your head.

Chris, I’m so sorry about the loss of your mother n law. Prayers and hugs going out to you and your family.

Elaine,

You’re going to make it through this difficult time.

I have complete faith in you.

Needhelpwithmom, thank you so much for your kind words. Hugs to you!!

I have my good days and my bad days. But you are right, I will get through it. Sometimes I have to take it one day at a time.

Elaine, thanks for your kind words, much appreciated. Reading the list of all the things you've been doing, it's clear you are making great progress, even if perhaps you don't always see it yourself. You are now free to do things your way, without the destructive voice asking why you would want to do certain things, without scorn, mocking, belittling and all the other behaviours that over time have controlled you, and diminished you and your sense of worth. Time now to enjoy being you!

NeedHelp, thanks for your kindness.

Chriscat, thank you so much for your words of encouragement!! Much appreciated!! Sometimes we have to just take it one day at a time, one hour at a time. We will all get through this!!!

I have finally learned to take notes when reading this board. :) To wit:

Lea: "I HATE staying at other people's homes, I don't care WHO they are! I much prefer a nice hotel room myself. That said, when/if my step children come to visit, I will insist they stay in a hotel *and probably wind up paying for it myself* ....they destroy my house when they do come & I won't put up with it anymore...

"I will stop calling over there. If she wants to talk, she can call ME and I can choose to answer or let it go to voice mail. I have a ton of compassion fatigue myself these days, although not like yours EP b/c my NM is living in a MC facility but she lives WAY TOO MUCH IN MY HEAD b/c I allow it. That's gotta change PRONTO."

Actually sounds to me like you're doing a pretty good job vis a vis the boundaries. Love the idea of getting the stepkids to stay in a hotel. I love them too. Trying to decide if I'm willing to risk staying in a hotel for a short beach trip for my birthday in a couple of weeks, DH and I have both had both our shots so it'll probably be OK. That said I'm not wanting to use public restrooms yet so the jury is still out a little.

Great news on DH's liver issues, glad to hear nothing really serious is going on right ATM tho the NM roller coaster has got to be stressful. Be sure to update after you go over Sunday.

Chris: "The biggest shock was actually realising it wasn’t me, it was her! (after years of being told everything was my fault and that I was deficient in so many ways). I have also found, like you, that the experiences of other posters on this site absolutely mirror my own, and this has given me the strength I need to stand up to my NM and to stay firm about the boundaries I’ve now been able to set as a result of this learning."

This board kicks a**. A couple times yesterday while talking to nmom I caught myself thinking about what you all would say about certain things she said. A lot was still the same - too much focus on death, dying, illness and other negative subjects - but miracle of miracles she actually seemed to understand *why* I've taken a big step back and has hired someone to help clean her house out! Plus she wants to stay in her own area as opposed to moving to mine - I just about fainted of shock.

At one point we were talking about my aunt who is also super negative and self absorbed and she seemed to understand why I have stepped back there too - I actually got to say that I don't have much mental energy lately, how much it hurt that nobody in our family seemed to much care that DH was out of work for so long etc. and that I'm tired of being seen as effectively a bottomless resource.

Seriously, I am super shocked. I figured I'd get an earful of how selfish I am, how put upon and pitiful she is and bla bla bla. I'm sure there'll be flashes of that going forward but so far so good on enforcing the boundaries. I think I've successfully sent the signal that I'll be around for calls a couple times a week or true emergencies but the idea of me being available at all times as an emotional support committee is going to have to stop. 

Thankfully nmom does have some self awareness, as jacked up as things can sometimes appear between us. She has a bunch of friends and I have effectively some adopted brothers and sisters, which it appears mother is willing to call upon.

Elaine: "I know what you mean how our mothers are STUCK IN OUR HEADS!! My mother died Oct 31st and she is starting to FINALLY get OUT of my head now after 6 months since she deceased. I find that me going on a diet, exercising, going back to the gym, writing down my thoughts, talking on here, talking to my therapist, going to work, ALL HELPS."

HOW are you doing the diet and exercise in covid? I ask because I've gained 10 pounds that I really need to take off. I find being so depressed has led to me not feeling like doing too much of anything (but eating ice cream, also I love to bake which is a problem). Tho I realize exercise would definitely help with that. I'm going to buy a rowing machine this week that I'm pretty excited about actually - I really miss being able to go to the gym and I've always liked rowing. Plus I bought some hand weights I've been using sporadically, they really seem to help with the ADHD "brain fog" among other things.

Piper: "I've been talking about the need for a hired companion on this board for awhile now. Yet I have not had the talk with her. I blamed covid, but in reality I'm also a coward and dread her rage and anger more than anything in this world. She has no idea how much hinges on her willingness to hire a companion. But whose fault is it that she doesn't know-- mine. Who needs to change it? Me."

You can do this. I'm also super cowed by my mom as well as my larger family dynamic - my mother had nine (!) siblings and we have a huge very enmeshed family network, plus we've lived in this same area for generations so even our second and third cousins are around. Everyone talks behind each others backs constantly and nothing any of the cousins do is seen as good enough for our aunts - if I let myself think too much about it I'd completely lose my mind.

All I have to offer is, same as I'm learning to deal with losing so many fun things to covid: One day at a time. Focus on what's right in front of you and what YOU want, right now, today and the future will take care of itself. That said I still think your sister should be picking up a lot more of the slack. She definitely will need to help pay for your mom's new hired help. Great news about your brother's diagnosis not being worst case, also. 👍👍

Hellebore, sounds like you are gaining INSIGHT here, and putting it into action! You are empowered!! As for the Covid pounds, we are all a little less fit than a year ago - but we are still here and have made it so far, and that is cause for celebration. I miss my swimming sessions but at the moment the restrictions around using the pool take most of the enjoyment out of it. I'm waiting until things improve and am enjoying my chocolate and cake treats without feeling too guilty!

Hellebore, my husband said he wanted to go on a diet. He said he wanted to lose 25 pounds. I said I’ll go on it with you and have lost 13 1/2 pounds and I am at my goal weight of 134 pounds at 5’9” tall.

It was mainly PORTION control. My husband has lost 23 1/2 pounds since January. He said he wants to lose at least another 5 more pounds and he will be within his normal range. His goal is 160 pounds at 5’8”. My son bought us an instapot that we use every night!! We cook chicken in it, onions, carrots, all the healthy foods and vegetables we cook in it. I cook broccoli in it and cauliflower. It tastes delicious. It is worth the investment. My husband always had 2nd or 3rd helpings at dinner and snacked a lot throughout the day. We both cut out all snacking and sugary foods. We limit ourselves to ONE serving at dinner and that’s it. We snack a little bit before bedtime but it’s having cheese and crackers, or animal crackers, or triskets. Plus we drink a lot of water. No more sugary drinks. The weight just fell off. We just started going back to the gym last week since we are fully vaccinated. I hope this helps.

Thanks Elaine. A nostril sore, isn't that just the stupidest thing ever? NM weighs 200lbs and needs to lose 20% of her body weight before hospice will be a consideration. Ha. She said she was so so so sick on Monday night (after eating the stuffed pepper I brought her) that she thought she was dying. Looks like hell will freeze over before I'll be bringing her anymore homemade dinners, huh? 🤣

I'm dancing around like Snoopy doing that happy dance he does. Got a call from the MC earlier. All visits are CANCELLED the next 7 days because there's a case of the norovirus over there! I'm certain NM won't get it though.......I told DH it's going to take a METEORITE crashing into the MC to take the woman out 😅. So now we have a whole blessed weekend to ourselves and hey, she can't blame me for not visiting.....she will, naturally, but its not my doing! Piper.....maybe you and DH can "contract" the norovirus this weekend, what do you think? 😁

Hellebore.......so your NM is showing some blood in them there veins instead of ice water...? Whaaaaaat??? Shocking when they show a bit of humanity isn't it? I vote for you going to a hotel for your bday. What good is getting the jabs if we can't relax a bit and go do things? I haven't heard of anyone getting the virus from a hotel. My DD and DH went to play bingo a few weeks ago and there were about 100 people there. I won $75! I even sat in my hairdressers chair for 2 hrs and she had Covid and didn't know it, and I didn't get it....we both were masked. DH and I have spent more time in Ers, hospitals and doctors offices this past year than EVER before, too, and never caught the virus. Plus we have been going out to dinner and to estate sales every weekend for ages now, too. Indoor dining the past month or so. We wear masks when required, and all has been well. I get jab 2 on Tues and DH a few days later.

Lea,

You know how I have told y’all about my husband’s deceased grandmother and what a self centered, crazy person that she was.

Your ‘nostril’ story reminded me of her.

She actually told us that her hair hurt, so we said, “Do you mean your scalp?” She says, “No, I said my hair!”

So we tell her, “That’s impossible! Hair is dead and doesn’t have any feelings.” She insisted that her ‘hair’ hurt! Go figure!

Oh, but the craziest was when I took her to a fancy uptown restaurant after shopping.

I made the foolish mistake of asking her how she felt before lunch!

She had a very loud voice! This was an intimate place, very quaint, not a large noisy place. She says, “I feel awful! I have been having ‘tightness of the stool!’ Have you ever heard of such a CRAZY thing? 😂 LOL

I wanted to crawl under the table! The poor guy at the table next to us put his fork down! She ruined his appetite!

She never listened to a word that we said. One day, during the dreaded Sunday dinner at her house my brother in law said, “MaMa, the house is on fire.” She says, “That’s nice dear.” We giggled.

So, he says a little louder, “MaMa, didn’t you hear me? I said that the house is on fire.” Once again, she says, “Oh, that’s so nice dear.”

Then she started talking about some silly nonsense as usual.

Well, he didn’t give up and said very emphatically, “MAMA, I SAID THAT THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE!”

By this time we were all cracking up! She says in a very angry tone, “What are all of you laughing at?”

She didn’t believe us when we told her. Oh, if only we had a tape recorder, we could have played it back for her!

Just think, Lea. I bet the crap that you would catch on tape would be priceless if you recorded your mom! 😆

I am telling you that all of us have the material to be great stand up comics, right?

Elaine: Prayers to you.🌈

Chris: I am so sorry for the loss of your mother in law.

Thank you Llamalover!!

I came to this page this week because I hit rock bottom - this was the first thread I read and for me it was a lifetime of therapy in one paragraph- I thought maybe I posted it earlier when I was terribly upset. I have asked myself that question my whole life and felt like something had to be terribly wrong with me and this week and with the help of this forum I know I’m ok. I know I love my Mom because she is my Mom. I know we are born with a need/want for them to love us and it’s finally ok to say and accept she never will and it finally stopped hurting. Thanks to all who share their hurt and struggle to help those who are hurting and struggling.

Hi Ladies,

Lea, I love the way you are able to interject some humor into these discussions. I LOL at some of the stuff. A METEORITE Lol. I'm glad you can't go to the MC this weekend. The little things huh? Enjoy your time with DH.

On the flip side, the fact that your mom is so old still going strong and still being a major PIA scares the crap out of me for my future. My mom is only 77. I have reached a tipping point as Chris pointed out. The reason I can't up and move isn't financial, we could easily sell our place, it's because my mom can't stay here alone. So my move has to involve her moving first, I think, but I feel if I had family support and she was forced to face that I am not going to continue like this, then she'd realize she has no choice.

I picture different scenarios in my mind bringing this up. None look easy or good, but I know it will have to happen. My brother gave us word yesterday that his surgery is scheduled for May 17. My mom is planning to go with my sister. I already told my sister I'm not going because I'm NEVER going to travel with my mom, because when she travels is the only time I get a break. She understands. How sad though, that I opt out of supporting my brother during surgery because of this messed up situation. I'm thinking after surgery at some point I will go see him myself.

So, all this talking that needs to happen, with my siblings and with my mom has to wait until my brother gets through this surgery. My burn-out takes a back seat to his cancer surgery.

Wanted to share something with you guys. Yesterday DH and I got together with a man we met here in our early FL days. We hadn't seen him in about 4 years. Very smart man. He did Marine Recon in Vietnam and then worked for the NSA. Divorced. One son who lives in Alabama. I found out on FB that he sold his house & boat and was now living close to our place, so we went over. He was thrilled when I called.

I was shocked how small his place was, and kind of a mess. His old place was never like that. As we were catching up it became obvious to me quickly that he has dementia. He only had about a suitcase worth of clothes there. The refrigerator was on the empty side. As I took it all in we all continued to chat. It was very pleasant even as I was feeling sad at what I was realizing. We told him we moved my mom close to us. He's familiar with our place so he knew what we were talking about- as in proximity.

Then he proceeds to tell us he had his lawyer draw up "everything Cory (his son) needs" and he is moving to Costa Rica. This guy has traveled the world extensively so this wasn't a delusion, but seeing his condition I asked why not Alabama? His response: "No, because I'm never putting Cory in the position you guys are in". I had no come back. I just said well I hope you aren't leaving soon, and he said not quite yet, but that was the plan.

Anyway- he's going to come over to our place for dinner soon. Part of me wondered if I should call Cory. I know him. Money is of no object here, this guy could live in a top notch ALF MC. Maybe Cory doesn't know how his dad has gotten? Or maybe I should just stay out of it?

And here is another twist. My mom met this guy about 6 years ago when she was visiting here, at his house. He invited us all over for a cook-out. After we left my mom made a comment how she liked him and thought he was good looking. She meant it. I had to inform her he likes the younger women, which was entirely true.

Story developing.....

Hey Hellebore so glad your day went well. Making ANY progress with a narc is cause for celebration and you did great. It's very fortunate that your mom has others to call. No one person can fill all the voids these elders have. Some, like mine, will outright expect it, unreal the entitlement of narcs.

casNiagara, welcome. I'm sorry for what you are going through, but I am glad you have found this forum and it has helped. Keep coming. You will get much needed support, and lots of good advice.

It's NOT you, it's them. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is real, and when we have them as parents it is traumatizing. I'm 58 and STILL coming to terms with it. Just always remember it's NOT you.

Thanks Llamalover. DH doing ok at the moment, with some tlc from the rest of us.

Piper, that’s a sad story about your old friend. It’s hard to know whether to get involved or not. Despite his condition it’s amazing the clarity he had when seeing your situation though.

casNiagra, it’s not unusual for people to come to this forum, and to this thread particularly, and feel that it was written about their personal experiences and their feelings. Good to hear it has helped you, as it has for so many of us.

EP.......I hear you. I remember reading posts from Golden, I think it was, here on AgingCare. Her mother lived to 106 and I'd be sweating bullets imagining that scenario myself with NM.

I'm glad you enjoy my twisted humor. We're all very stressed out so humor is crucial to keep our heads above water. More on that later.

Your old friend who's moving to Costa Rica. Well good for HIM! His son can always go down there and visit him whenever he wants to right? He's living life on his terms and not burdening his son in any way, how admirable imo. As far as you contacting the son, I don't know. Do what you think feels right to YOU. I doubt the dad will leave without letting him know where he's going.

I don't think you're withdrawing support from your brother by not visiting him while he's going thru surgery...who wants visitors during such a thing anyway? You'll go at a later date when you can be more helpful to him. It's sad indeed that our NMs make it necessary for us to take such measures to PROTECT ourselves, but its how it is.

NM fell out of bed AGAIN at 4am this morning and was found on the floor by staff when the bed alarm went off. No injuries, of course, 71 falls she's up to. She called me a while ago crying about how miserable she is. Talking about wanting to live with her sister Jenny who's dead, or me, and I again explained how her care needs are way too great to live anywhere but where she's at or a SNF. So she starts in about dying again, and how it will be soon hopefully, and nobody will care yada yada. I told her that SHE is making ME quite miserable with all of her crying and refusing to make the best of things while I'm doing MY best to help her. It was a terrible call after another call from the MC where I was woken up with bad news and feeling stressed out. She's also refusing the physical therapy I've worked hard to get reinstated for her and she told the PT no 2x already. I'm in process of filling out forms NOW! I just feel defeated as usual. I also think she'll be MORE miserable with a roommate in the SNF which is why I'm putting it off, but 2nd guessing myself again. When I told her we weren't allowed to visit tomorrow bc of norovirus she said GOOD twice. Seems like she's turned a corner now of making her misery known all the time and staying in her room a lot vs. socializing with the others. It's a small place with 23 residents and gorgeous gardens to sit in if she wants to. She'd just rather be miserable nowadays and let me know about it.

DH and I are going out to dinner tonight and I'm turning my phone off.

casNiagara, welcome to the club nobody wants to be a member of.

Chris: You're very welcome.

Elaine: You're very welcome.

Lea, I can not believe your mom fell AGAIN! Could she be faking any of this? It's just such an unbelievable number of falls, she's probably broken a record at that facility!

Her lifelong pattern of heaping her misery onto you continues on. I think you should turn your phone off more. I mean if your mother isn't in the mood to pick up a phone call she thinks nothing of ignoring your calls. Something I've noticed about the dance with a narc is they somehow gaslight you into feeling guilty for behavior that they think NOTHING of doing themselves.

It's dreadful that even in MC she is still such a PIA and you are still doing so much work. Somebody's mother lived to be 106? Guarantee I would be dead first. With your mom, I wonder if she really would be miserable with a roommate? Maybe it would give her someone else to unload on? Maybe they would get along and could b**** to each other?

Mines coming over today for "happy hour". HAPPY hour, no more like misery hour but it's the game I play so it's limited and doesn't include staying for dinner too. We're also taking her out to lunch tomorrow. I'm in a little mini-fog for some reason. I think because I've felt so bitter lately. My posts here have reflected that. I'm trying to work through what I need to do. As much as I can't stand the woman I want her to have decent care and isolation is a huge problem right now. Sigh. I wish my mom had 23 residents to socialize with... but then again, she could easily be like yours and stay in her room. IDK. But at least in MC you know it's THEIR choice to not socialize. In my situation my mom can't get out on her own for socializing, and it's not her choice. She IS kind of stuck.

It would be such a HUGE relief if my mom would realize on her own how much better ALF MC could be for HER, but I don't see it happening. People that have those kinds of parents are so freaking lucky!

Like Cory. For his dad, our friend, burdening his son and DIL is not even an option at all. Could you imagine having that luxury?

Anyway, sorry I am starting to ramble, enjoy your day today with DH, and keep the phone off.

Hugs to all.

"Mom, this last scare with DH's health has been a wakeup call for us. We are going to be focusing on our own health and traveling more as things start to open up. We won't be available to you on an ongoing basis. I see two alternatives here; one is a paid companion and the other is a senior living facility with lots of programming".

Excellent script, Barb. Caring, but firm too.

And Piper: “Something I've noticed about the dance with a narc is they somehow gaslight you into feeling guilty for behavior that they think NOTHING of doing themselves. “ That hits the nail right on the head! I fell for this one for decades before finally seeing the light.

My NM has found herself a new flying monkey at her supported living place, presumably to replace me as I no longer dance to her tune. I recognised the signs when I took some things over recently. He’s been roped in to deal with her neuroses and assorted little daily needs. I also noticed that the way he reacted to me when I was introduced to him by my mother was exactly how many other acquaintances of hers in the past have behaved towards me when we have met for the first time. A bit cold, a bit wary, a bit bemused. My trashed reputation always seems to precede me. I can almost hear my mother saying “ This is her. This is who I’ve been telling you about. “ It’s no wonder we suffer from social anxiety if we’ve been dealing with this kind of stuff for most of our lives. For years you think there must be something glaringly and obviously wrong with you to make such a terrible first impression on someone, until you realise your NM has briefed people against you before you’ve even met them. I’m at a loss to understand this apparent hatred.