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Today I had my first appointment with an actual therapist (not a counselor).
Even though one hour wasn't long enough to spew out everything I need to talk about, this woman completely picked up on 2 truly major points.
1) Even ONE of the stressors I have been dealing with over the last year is more than enough to warrant therapy!
2) I have been the "caregiver " for everyone in my family since I was 12 years old!


She asked me what I do for myself?
I had absolutely no answer!!
Hence therapy!! Lol


Caring for a narcissistic LO is a labor of love!


Not because they will love us back, but because we need to love ourselves!!
How do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO?


What do you do for yourself?


(((Hugs)))

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One, I will pray for a positive outcome for you and peace.
Two, you have encouraged me to seek counseling. Not just for myself, but also for my husband.
Our lives have been turned upside down by temporary caregiving revolving into permanent living situation.
That person has since left our home. We went into this blindly with an “it will all work out attitude”. Wrong!!!!
Also, the arguments over this situation brought out some honest dialog that my husband and I need to address concerning our marriage.
We only endured this drama for months. I could not fathom those who continually live in a pressure cooker for years.
I am so grateful for this community. Honestly had no one to talk with. I posed a question, and got genuine feedback and suggestions. It solidified that my gut instinct was right.
What I have read on these posts just astounds me. So many people hurting.
I will continually pray for all of you.
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PSA for every person in this thread.

Somebody finally wrote a book for US. And it is the only one out there, literally. The author says in the preface that she wrote the book for that very reason, there was nothing out there for us! Us being adult survivors of narcissistic abuse (or any kind of abuse) that are now faced with caring for the same elders that abused us.

Your turn for care: Surviving the aging and death of the adults who harmed you
By: Laura Brown

I bought it last night and started reading it on my kindle. I'm just starting and already hooked. A book like this is long over-due. And we are FAR from alone.
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Thanks Earlybird and Llama. Agree that a stress-free environment is needed right now. My boys are running the house for me and I am catching up on some light reading. I can’t face the noise and movement of the TV so a quiet book is better. Have just finished Warlight by Michael Ondaatje. Amazing book, and I’ve got so much more out of it while resting.
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Chris: Oh, no! I am so sorry to hear that you fell in your shower and injured yourself. Thank goodness you were okay after being evaluated at the hospital. I am sorry that your mother offered zero comfort, just when you needed it the most. That's terrible. Take care of yourself.💖
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My goodness, Chriscat. Hope you feel better soon. Lucky you did not break anything. Sorry about not getting support form your mother. She might be aware of your problem at first but forgot. Try not to take it personally. I know it is hard, but you do not need any added stress. That is what I do most of the time and if it still bothers you I would have a serious discussion and explain your feeling. You would feel better once you get it off your chest. I had some major health problems in the past and I told my mother and she felt bad in the moment and then forgot about my problem. I wanted her support more than anyone else in the world at a time in my life when I could have died but with her memory loss the support was only there for a brief period of time. My mother was always concerned about her family. She would always put others first. As a declining elder and lots of health problems she has been more focused on herself. I do not take it personally because she was never like that before and I know it is difficult for her. I love her unconditionally. It is difficult to see some changes in her, but mostly she is her sweet self.
I hope you start to feel better soon. It might have been lots of stress that caused to to fall and hit your head. It happened to me while my mom was in the ER. I had new shoes on and was rushing to let my niece in the door to the ER and my foot got stuck to the tile floor and I took a flip and hit my head against the wall, I was on blood thineeres at the time.. I was in the same room as my mother overnight. It was definately stress and lack of sleep.
Take care of yourelf, get support from other family members if possible and get help when needed. Sending my thought snd prayers to you. Hope you have a quick recovery.






























































Take care of yourself, try to get enough sleep if possible and get extra help when needed. I did and it made less stress in my life
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Dear Friends, I have been out of the loop for a few weeks now (busy helping DH sort out his mother's estate, and we have the builders in) although have tried to keep up with the various news, good and not so good, from posters. Best wishes to all, especially those having a tough time. I have resurrected this post as it seemed the most relevant place for what I am about to write. Earlier this week I slipped in the shower, fell backwards heavily and cracked my head and arm against the hard shower tiles. Thankfully I didn't lose consciousness but was concussed and spent a few hours in hospital getting checked out. I am so lucky to not have any broken bones but am very bruised, have a very sore head and need to rest at home for a while, with no driving. It was a very frightening experience. I phoned my mother to explain what had happened and that I would be unable to drive over for the next week or so. She took this in good grace but was really not that concerned about my wellbeing and hasn't been in touch since to see how I'm doing. I suppose I'm not surprised, as she is an NM, but it is still incredibly hurtful and distressing. I am posting this experience to again warn others of expecting much, or anything, in terms of concern or support from an NM, as they just cannot give it.
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Lisa,

I love your last two words of your posting. “Good Riddance!” That’s exactly how you should feel.

There are some people that we just can’t make peace with. She sounds like someone that isn’t worth the effort of even trying to get along with.

If people like your MIL are displeased and the relationship ends, that’s a blessing!
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Please tell your cow of an in-law:

"I guess that is what happens in some families. I don't chose to do that".

I didn't do hands on care for either of my elderly parents.

They brought me up in a loving middle class home and paid for college educations for me and for my brothers. Because that's what parents do.

They did NOT expect anything in return.

We supported my mom in her care of my dad when he was ill. We arranged for good care of my mom when she could no longer live alone.

THAT'S what families do. They pay it forward.
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“I know you don’t know this but that’s what family should do”

The "I know you don't know this" is the cherry on top. Yep, this one goes in the Hall of Fame of NM BS
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Lisa,

Yay! Congrats! Fantastic! Good for you and hubby!

Sometimes that is what it takes, right? Total separation. There’s no in between. It takes totally getting away from toxicity to realize how deadly the poison is.

I am very happy for you and your husband!
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Hi, it’s been awhile since I’ve posted.
my MIL is a covert narcissist. I have Been BLISSFULLY no contact since March of 2020 😃 lots of drama regarding her living in our rental with roommates and hoarding. To many comments and shitty behaviors towards me an my only child Dear Husband.
My husband hasn’t seen his mother since he moved her out of the rental in July of 2020. Yes, her crap and roommates crap stayed in our rental for months! I had to send a formal letter stating we would pay 1 month of storage. Mind you, she had help from my husband, our daughter (17) and flying monkeys to move.
DH has finally come out of the FOG. He still has some work to do in regards to her guilting him over the phone. He hasn’t seen her since July 2020.
Her bday is this weekend and he has offered to have our daughter drive her and her FM (flying monkey) to our cabin property that has been passed to him. Falling apart when we got it.
Im worried she is going to pull some form of guilt and he will get into a funk/bad mood. I’m hoping that DD driving her 1-1/2 hours to and from the property will alleviate her guilting him on the car ride if he had to take her lol. She only shows her crappy side to DH, her brother and me. DD is my child from a previous marriage… so she’s not family (MIL words)
Im torn between wanting her to behave and wanting her to mess up. DH said if she acts up…he has done his diligence in trying to spend time with her.
I refuse to get her a gift. He bought her a card. In the past we would splurge and take her out and she would invite her FM and order to the nines. Also would invite herself and 2 uncles b-day (they don’t get along) they ordered over $350 worth of cocktails and surf/turf grrrr many more stories of her thinking we are her piggy bank (she can well afford things btw) sorry got side tracked 😂.
hugs to you guys in healing from these Monsters!
oh, yeah (ex-foster child here) she has stated more than once to me that we should do things for her because “I know you don’t know this but that’s what family should do” her words. To many shitty comments and behaviors towards me and my husband to even mention here. Good riddance!
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Has anyone noticed that the trolls stay away from this thread? Hahahaha, do you think that they are intimidated by this group, knowing that this group knows all of the tricks up someone’s sleeve?

Geeeeez, there are some very odd posts sometimes. Interesting…
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BurntCaregiver: Wow! How horrible! That was really bullying that the nuns did - the calling out and other things. I'm so sorry.
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EB,

I am happy things worked out well for your brother. Mine wasn’t as fortunate. He made a few attempts, even owned a successful business at one time. Sadly, he did not beat his demons in the end.

Yeah, I loved him as my brother and we were close at certain times. I was only about 7 when he started using. So, it was horribly confusing to me at such a young age.
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Oh, yes! We all had good teachers and at least one bad one! Sometimes. more than one.

Well. like I mentioned earlier. I was always grateful to my mom for going to speak to my sixth grade teacher because my teacher automatically assumed that I would act up like my brother had in her class.

When my daughter had a couple of crappy teachers, I did the same as my mom did. Later on, I found out from another mom who attended the same church with her, that her husband committed a ‘white collar’ crime and was going to jail. She was so distraught over her husband that she was taking it out on her fourth grade class! My daughter was coming home with stomach aches every single day, after dealing with this teacher.
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I remember in 8th grade a boy in our class was spanked with what they called a Board of Education paddle right in front of the class and it happened quite frequently. He would pout and get red in the face. I always liked Jimmy and felt bad for him. I guess his mother gave permission.I was a quiet kid and respectful but I was still afraid of that board that hung near the nuns desk.
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I can't remember a lot of my childhood but one memory that is burned in my brain is that of Sister Mirium Michael getting right in the FACE of this girl sitting next to me in my class, we were about 8 years old. She screamed at the top of her lungs "I'm speaking Alicia! But YOU would do ANYTHING to talk to a BOY!!" totally humiliating the girl and the boy next to her and terrifying everyone else. I could feel her breath she was so close to our faces.

Yeah- that would NEVER fly today but it's crazy what nun's used to get away with while being "teachers".
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Llamalover47,

I had years of Catholic school abuse at the hands of the sisters.
Not just hitting but psychological and emotional as well.
What the sisters often used as their weapon of choice was ostracizing. They would call a kid out in front of everyone else and encourage their classmates to bully and ridicule them.
None of this would fly in any school today and that's good progress.
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NeedHelp,
My older brother had a drug problem back in the sixties. I was only sixteen and felt very sad for him. We were close. I remember going to bed and crying over it and very confused. I also remember my mother looking for my brother late at night His so called friends were all drugged up smoking pot or on some drug. My mother was brave and very supportive. She would leave the door open and save his meals on the stove. Back then there was not much help or treatment. My mother deciided to tell my dad after some time passed and he told my brother either drug friends or join the Navy. He entered the Navy at eighteen and turned around within two years. He went to college, majored in English, had his own newpaper service, later became a teacher. I was proud of him. He was always so smart I was so surprised he used drugs. I looked up to him when I was a kid. We had a stable environment with loving parents.
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Need: Yes, your statement is correct - it would have been reported as child abuse in today's society. I do understand why you were shy as a child; that is painful, isn't it? Your poor parents not having any group support for your brother because it didn't exist then must have been difficult.
When my father died when I was barely 20, I had an immediate change as my mother needed me. I was no longer withdrawn/shy. I was a completely different person. So yes, out of tradegy came some triumph; I don't mean that to sound callous.
The teacher's name was Shirley and I immediately disliked her, to say the least.
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EB,

Isn’t is weird how ‘lefties’ were treated then? Do you remember the penmanship drills in school? Of my gosh! They were perfectionists when it came to handwriting skills.
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Llama.

Wow! I am sorry about your teacher hitting you. I guess a lot of us were smacked by rulers back then. Some teachers were very misguided back then. Nowadays it would be reported as child abuse, right? It doesn’t send the correct message to children.

I was shy as a child too. I believe my shyness was a distinct part of my personality, but also because of the dysfunction that existed in my family. It was incredibly confusing for me to grow up with a brother who had substance abuse issues.

It was a ‘hush hush’ era. There were no outlets back then to discuss anything. My parents didn’t know how to handle it. They felt shame, even though it wasn’t their fault. My parents didn’t even drink. My brother hooked up with the wrong crowd and caved into peer pressure. My mom told us not to speak a word to anyone. I am so glad that there are support groups now and therapy for children now. That wasn’t common when I was a child.
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My second grade teacher hit me on my hand with a ruler "to get me out of my shell." I was painfully shy and her method FAILED!
Early, sorry for what you went through also.
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Lea: You're very welcome.💚
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EB,

Most of my teachers were fantastic. It was just that one exception in sixth grade. I was paying for my brother’s sins! LOL I suppose that she expected me to behave like he did but when I went home upset and my mom asked me what was wrong, she went to the school and had a talk with her. I really appreciated that.

True, we did receive a good education. My grandparents never raised their hands with my mom. My father’s family did spank him. So, my dad was the one who felt that he had to follow suit. My mom would tell him that he didn’t have to swat us. He eventually stopped.

Both of my parents were about equal in discipline. I think a big expression back then was, “Wait until your father gets home!” Some moms felt it was the father’s responsibility to dole out the discipline. It’s an interesting take. I don’t necessarily agree with this approach. but it was a common method in that era.
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Need, I loved the nuns, but when I was in first grade a mean nun use to wack my fingers so I would write with my right hand. She was not at all successful with her method. I was determined to use my left hand. I write with my left hand to this day.I never told on the nun. The nuns were strict in those days but I had a great education.
My mother was easygoing and my dad was the strict one. I came home late one night around 2am I was only seventeen and he was waiting up for me he told me never come home late like that again. I never did until I was over 21. My mother insisted on respecting others. She always had a good word for everyone and if she could not say something nice or postive about a person she would not say anything. She was a great role model for our family. I never got hit as a kid by my parents. When dad was home we told the mark. He was pretty easy going in a lot of ways, though.
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Lea,

Wow! You had a right to be upset. Don’t blame you one bit for mentioning that this behavior was ‘a bit much.’

Do you find this to be a more common attitude now than in the past? I do. Parenting has changed. I realize that we are always evolving as a society. Shouldn’t certain rules be timeless, such as respecting others?

I don’t know about you, but we got a swat on the butt for misbehaving, or a ruler smacked on our wrist by a nun at school.. That either caused a kid to behave or in some cases, kids rebelled.

My parents certainly didn’t ‘abuse’ us. This was customary at the time. I actually found a swat on my butt less painful than if I was told that I couldn’t hang out with my friends. I am NOT saying that we should go back to physically hitting children. I don’t think that behavior should be laughed off though.

I was taught to respect my parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, godparents, teachers, neighbors, basically any adult in our lives, but my mom was extremely fair by showing me that we as children were to be respected too.

I will never forget that my sixth grade teacher treated me horribly because my oldest brother had misbehaved in her class. I had straight A’s in her class and this teacher was terribly mean to me, even though I had never misbehaved in her class.

My mom went to see this teacher and said, “Please don’t treat my daughter unfairly. Yes, my son misbehaved in your class and he deserved to be disciplined, but my daughter has been a good student with good behavior since kindergarten.” After my mom spoke to my teacher, I didn’t have any further problems with her.

Your point about showing others respect is so dead on! We have all been surprised when children aren’t disciplined, especially when parents think that the behavior is cute.
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EP.

Yay! I hope she’s the one!
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EP: SD#2 is divorced from her DH but he's still in the picture. Nobody can talk to her about ANYTHING, she's that closed off. 29 y/o and never had a job! Lives off the DH's alimony & child support & he pays the mortgage! She hikes & hangs out professionally, that's about it. When they came here 2 years ago, the child slammed the door in my face and nearly caught my fingers in the door of the bedroom. I was livid. The mother says laughingly, oh that's not nice! She was so rude and awful to me, but mommy thought it was funny. When I told her the bad behavior was A BIT MUCH, she had a meltdown! We'll see how things go this time around. I'm not hopeful, to be honest. And you are 100% right with the analogy about the elders, too. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar and IMO, it's a parent's job to teach a child RESPECT for their elders and how to act civilized in general FFS.

GOOD LUCK with the interview this afternoon for the aid for NM!! Fingers crossed!!

Thank you Llamalover!
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I think I might have found an aid! We've been messaging this morning, and are going to talk this afternoon to set up a meeting. She is local to me and seems like a good fit so far. One 4 hour day works good for her once her kids start school in a couple weeks.

Fingers crossed 🤞
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