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My dad has been living with me for 9 years. We have never been paid a dime for taking care of him and he has alzheimers for the past two years. We pay for some of his expenses out of our own money such as cable and water and gas to get all his groceries. can we come back to the estate after his passing and get paid for all that we did to help him live a peaceful and happy life. My wife and I both work and have given up a great deal of our lives and time to take care of my dad and no family members help us at all. They complain and moan about where the money is and the POA complains if we ask for money to pay for dads items. We love our dad and want the best for him and to make him comfortable but we do feel that other siblings should not be entitled to the money at the end. We cannot use the funds to put him in AL as the POA won't authorize it and the POA will also not pay for a caregiver to come in during the days we work to help dad bathe and eat and get his meds. We just want to know if anyone has ever heard of the estate being sued by the caregiver and if the caregiver has a right to any of the funds.

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I agree that it might make a difference if some form of care services contract were in place between the sisters; but I'd be astonished if that were the case. It sounds a lot more as if younger caregiver sister is segueing from groundless optimism to increasing anxiety about what is to become of her in the future. Her choice is to speak up now, or to throw herself on the good graces of a nephew who probably has no clue about her financial situation - and why should he have?

It's not an easy conversation to initiate. But she'd better.
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Certain types of creditors may lien property for failure to pay. These include tradesmen and financial companies. The ability to lien real property is I believe prescribed by law, which also establishes the foundation for lienability, requirement notices, perfection of lien, etc.

I honestly don't know, w/o doing some extensive legal research, whether a caregiver lien could be filed, but certainly not without a foundation agreement addressing breach of contract.

Another issue would be whether the contract was oral or written, terms of payment, breach of contract issues and remediation, and more.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with CM, who always gives wise advice, but rather stating that this could be a complex issue. But CM does raise some important issues, and that's the relationship between the two, and what will happen to the caregiving sister after the other sister dies.

There may be some way to include a provision in the will that the caregiving sister has a choice of remaining in the home so she doesn't become homeless, which would be a tragedy after caring for her sister for years.
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No. Younger sister needs to have an honest conversation with home-owner sister about what home-owner sister wants to happen to her property after her death. And meanwhile, if younger sister is suffering financial loss as a direct result of caregiving commitment, there needs to be an honest conversation about that, too.

So. Assuming home owner sister is of sound mind, she can do as she pleases with her property and is by no means obliged to leave her estate to her son. Does she understand and appreciate what position she is leaving her caregiver sister in? Does she recognise caregiver sister's efforts financially in any way?
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Home owner is 75, and confined to a wheelchair. Her live in sister is her 24/7 caregiver. Both sisters smoke and have heart problems but otherwise are in reasonable health.
Home has been willed to her only son who is well off and lives across the country.
Can younger sister put lien on property for caregiver services?
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Home owner is 75, confined to a wheelchair. Her sister is 71 and lives with her and is her 24/7 caregiver. Both sisters smoke and have heart problems but otherwise in reasonable health. Elder sister has willed the home to her only son. Son is well off and lives across the country. Can caregiver put lien on property for services?
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Sorry I meant save it.
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Call in adult protective services. Even if your dad has Alzheimer's that does not mean someone else needs to handle his money, especially if they will not pay added expenses such as a caregiver to come in and take care of him during the day, or to put him in Assisted Living. This is his money not theirs and it should be going totally for his care, instead of someone trying to say it for his other heirs or himself. This is ludicrious. Call them, he might qualify for Medicaid if he does not have that much money and a daily provider. If he has enough money then it should be used for Assisted Living and his care. This POA is not doing the right thing for your dad. Call in Adult Protective Services now, and don't be taken advantage of.
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What a giant pain in the butt... I agree with all responses.. You need to get your Dad to change the POA to you, or if your Uncle wants he can take care of your Dad...

After reading this post, I am so happy that my Mom 91yrs. has me listed as her MPOA and financial POA, she been with me for 12yrs. and I would have let the one in control take over a long time ago...
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I took care of my aunts boyfriend after she died for about a year while he battled cancer. we sat through every radiation and chemo appt together and I drove him to every doctors appt. also took him out of the area for treatment. No one in his family helped. When he was in hospice he gave me his car and some savings bonds for my children. We never transfered these items and as soon as he passed his brothers took everything from me. Can I sue the estate for being his care giver? I never met the oldest brother until my "uncle" was in hospice, made me crazy that they didn't care.
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A POA does not automatically make the POA executor of anyone's estate! Executor is only named in a Will and if your dad is now suffering with Alzheimer's, any Will made now that leaves you/your wife anything is subject to challenge by the other "beneficiaries" after he passes away. I'm in the middle of lawsuit myself with a paid caregiver who got a POA and walked away with everything my dad owned! I've won every step of the way but its been a long battle and I've had to do without an attorney because the estate is so small. My advice....file an action in your local superior court asking for the current POA to be revoked and to have yourself appointed conservator for your dad. You will have to report to the court on a regular basis as to what's going on, how you spend his money, etc. and as conservator, you can ask the court to permit you to hire a caregiver, that is paid with dad's funds. Also, if your Dad is receiving Medicare and/or has little or no money, try and find an "IHSS" program - in home health services, in your area that actually pays the caregiver. Income requirements are tight but most states have these programs in order to keep patients at home rather than in long-term care or hospitals. You can then hire whoever you want but they are paid by IHSS..it's funded by federal, state and local $$$. Good luck and stay strong!
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Dear Anonomys1,
I agree with you. Your Dad needs the best care NOW, not what could of or should of happen in the future. No one knows what can happen in the future but God. And your Dad needs the help now. Should unexpected things pop up [and they will, believe me] in the future, you deal with that when it happens.
You must live in the present and deal with things in the present, not what if this, or what if that. No one can predict how dementia will turn out in the future, it can stay the same, get worse, or even with medication, it can be stablilized [shortened and with more mental clarity, but not cured.]
Your love for your Dad and wanting to care for him at home is the most honorable and loving thing to do and your Uncle is not appreciating that....is he only thinking of himself and is just ignorant of the facts? A state funded facility will be way more expensive even if your Dad does have the money and must leave your home--about $10,0000 a month in my state. Gosh, is your Dad a millionaire? I doubt it. Who can afford that? Why is your Uncle expecting if your Dad goes into an AL [nursing home you mean or assisted living?] it will be cheaper than compensating you NOW and keeping him at home under your care. Even AL will be far more expensive than caring properly for your Dad at home with you. You are the one willing to care for Dad at home and not him.
Why will your other siblings inherit all of the money and not allow you to be an inheritor too? As I said before, a financial POA doesn't necessarily mean that that person will inherit all of the money or property. Did your Dad make a living will [trust]? If he did, it should legally say what he wanted done with his monies and property: who gets what, who is POA when he is still alive [and sick] or passed, etc....Please try and speak to the attorney that your Dad worked with about the details of your Dad's estate and making Uncle POA. I do beleive you have the right to do that--HE IS YOUR DADDY!
Why should brother care if Dad is in a state funded facility? He doesn't lift a finger to help Dad or you now, why should he then?
Yes, its YOUR DAD'S money and he should recieve the best care NOW with you, not what if this, what if that. You are the one in the trenches, you have a say and rights. . You have a BIG SAY AND BIG RIGHTS.
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Dear reindeermama,
So sorry, I thought you were asking me that question. But after I realized that you were asking Anonomys1 the question and not me.
But again, just because a person is the designated POA [executor the estate/trust] doesn't necessarily have to mean that that particular person will inherit everything from their parents. It all depends on how the parents designed the trust/estate with the attorney--as my Daddy did.
lefaucon.
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Dear reindeermama,
My brother and not my uncle is the executor [financial POA] of my parents trust. Daddy did this with his attorney long before he passed. No, my brother does not inherit all of my parents trust/estate once they both pass, he has only the right to manage it [monies, house, etc....]once they pass, or even before when they both got sick within a month of each other. My parents made it with the attorney so that the three of us siblings inherit equally whatever is left in the trust and the house also. Hope this helps.....
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Each year the amount of hours we had to do caregiving has gone up. We started at about 20 hours per month beginning at a rate of $13.00 per hour and now with dads alzheimers we are think we do about 35 hours a month at a rate of $16.00 hr.
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I agree with you. The tally as of todays date for care is:
43,780 for care since July 2003.
8,200 for money we have paid out of our pocket for cable, phone water/sewage and meals since July, 2003.
That does not include what we did not money we lost because we could not rent the unit as it's a duplex and dad lives on the first floor which comes to about 37,000 for all those years of no rent.
Total for all these items as of today is $87,160.00.
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You really must sit with an elder care attorney. Nine years of care is a long time particularly with a POA tightly holding the purse strings. Have the attorney write a care contract so you can be compensated for the expense of caring for your dad - not just outside help, your own labor and a portion of the cost of your home's upkeep, taxes, etc.
Your uncle's concerns are ridiculous. If your father exhausts his funds, he will be eligible for Medicaid coverage if he needs a skilled nursing home. Your uncle's mental image of a 'state home' is hopelessly outdated. Many private nursing facilities accept Medicaid. And, in our county, the 'county home' has one of the best reputations around.
Brace yourself for the yammering of your money-hungry siblings. It may be unavoidable. Remember, they're not offering to care for dad. Remind them who's been caring for him for the last nine years and ask them to tally up THEIR expenses for that care.
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We sort of have a heads up to get help in the home now. Not 100% sure as of yet. I am the MPOA since dad resides with me and Uncle is the financial POA. I am wating for the dr. to release dads medical diagnosis to me and the VA papers are ready to go. I don't have any discharge papers but I do have his service number and it states he had an honorable discharge from the VA hopsital records where he was seen. Did talk to insurance company and they said we are covered if someone gets hurt on our property. POA does not want to dispense money now for dads help in case his dementia gets worse down the road and he will need AL. He feels that there is not enough money left to cover dads care and he does not want him in a state funded facility if he does not have the money. That's his logic. Our logic is we are doing the best we can to keep dad at home and comfortable and he may never need an AL. So if he passes in the next year or two the other siblings get all the money and we get nothing for all we did! I'm sorry to sound harsh but that's the reality. I don't want any money I want my dad to get the care he needs as it's his hard earned money and who cares if anything is left at the end of his life? Well I don't but greedy siblings do.
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I was telling my husband about your post. His first question was does your father's brother inherit the estate or money when your father passes?
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What is his answer (excuse) for not helping you out for the care and or letting him go to a facility. Is he going to inherit?
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I don't know about elsewhere, but down here in Texas I have been told Veteran's Aid and Attendance for the veteran himself usually takes 4 to 6 months to receive, but it is retroactive. If you send in all the paperwork, they will send a letter back and the date that they acknowledge that they are processing it. That is generally the date they will go back to with pay. Example: You send in the paperwork in October, they acknowledge on November the 1st, any money he is eligible for would go all the way back to Nov. 1, even if they didn't give him the first check until
January. It would just be a lump sum check and then every month after that the regular monthly amount. Sometimes if an assisted living facility knows that they qualify for Veteran's aid they will give you a reduced rate until the money comes in. Then you can pay the rest of what you owe them from the lump sum. Sometimes if the situation is explained they are willing to work with you. Please apply, he really deserves it. Sometime you can ask an officer at the VA to help you go over the form before you send it in. Down here there is an attorney that charges like $5000 to file for you, but he guarantees that you will get it, or he will return the fee, and he includes in the fee the reapplying for it every year for the next three years. Look for an elder care attorney, or one that is certified by the VA. Your dad could also revoke his power of attorney from his brother, and then give it to you. Usually this can be down by tearing it up and filling out a new notarized power of attorney and filing it at the County Courthouse. Then you would take it to the banks, and get your Father's brother off the accounts etc. Hope this helps.
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Dear Anonomys1,
POA = executor of your Dad's estate. That can be changed easily-need the attorney, your Dad's willingness and signature. Is your Dad capable of reasoning about this situation and understanding how your uncle is abusing his position as POA? Maybe you can talk to the lawyer yourself in private. I agree with all those who have responded to you above but have not read anything about someone being the Medical POA. So who has the Medical POA? That is different from being an executor [financial part] of your Dad's estate. For instance, my brother has financial POA and is executor of my parents estate, but I have Medical POA and only I have the right to make decisions on my Mom's medical care [where she goes, what treatment she needs, etc...]should anything need to be changed or anything like that. Because I am the one who was in the trenches as primary CG, I have the MPOA. Daddy passed just this past May. My brother and sister are the best in the world, and brother compensates me every month for all the work I do from the trust itself. Your uncle should be doing the exact same thing. There is help out there as the others said above, you just have to do your homework. It will be well worth it in the end. I also have worked with the VA and there are a lot of forms to fill out. But all you need are the proper forms, your Dad's discharge papers, Medicare RX prescriptions that your Dad has been taking, etc....of whatever else they require, get the ball rolling on this......he can be compensated. Your Dad deserves that. He fought for our country and the VA can help you even if it may take months. Just get the ball rolling as soon as you can. God bless you.
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It's wonderful to have someone you know that's available to come in to provide care. As long as you're employment situation is on the up and up (she's claiming the income, etc) what would be the risk? Your homeowner's insurance would cover anything that might happen to her while she's in your home. To set your mind at ease, call your insurance company and run the situation by them.
HOWEVER, you really must address this situation with the POA. As everyone has stated, he does not have the right to withhold the money needed for your dad's care. In fact, making sure your dad's needs are met is exactly his primary responsibility.
Please contact him today, tell him what care arrangement you have decided upon, what it will cost and when and where he will need to send payments. If he refuses, tell him you will have no choice but to proceed with contacting adult protective services.
Also, you should invest in a visit with an elder law attorney. You should be compensated for the care you provide, particularly since the rest of the family is not making any contribution (monetary or labor) to caring for your dad.
What is the POA's motive for refusing to pay?? Is he the sole beneficiary of your father's estate?
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Senior daycare is 60.00 a month. Again he won't pay for these items. We are in the process of trying to get aid and attendance from the VA but I hear that takes a long time. We are waiting for doctors diagnosis before the papers can go in. I know this person for a couple years and she does a great job here at work. My wife is apprehensive. This person I would like to hire said they would do it legally so everything is above board and our property is safe and the wages will be reported so that tells me alot about her. I don't think she is out to get me in any way but how do I make my wife see that. Dad needs help and this lady needs some extra cash and also took care of her brother who had a stroked and her mom before she had to be put in nursing home.
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It can be expensive to get bonded. You have to have a background check, file with the state, and usually put up a sum of money to be bonded If the home is in your name, and medicaid is paying for the caregiver to come in, there is no risk.If you hire a person you don't know... Then the risks are of course theft, breakage of property, or maybe abuse of the elder. How comfortable do you feel with this person?? If medicaid pays for a provider they can put a lien against the property or estate of the person they are providing the caregiver for, but not your home if your father has no legal interest in it. Why won't he pay for any agency. Have you tried telling him if he cannot show where your father cannot afford it that you will ask for an accounting to be shown to a judge or adult protective service worker. Agencies are bonded, and caregivers are trained. Be firm with your father's brother. Do you know what assets your father has? what income? If not ask that your father's brother show you. Was your dad in the service during any of the wars? If he was, he is entitled to Veteran's aid and attendance. Is there an adult day care close? That might be another option. Is there an senior community center close? They, if you drop the senior off, have activities and usually lunch provided for them. Have you looked into Meals on Wheels?
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I am trying to hire an in home caregiver but he won't pay for an agency. How do I do this and not have my home be in jeopardy? I have a great person that I work with who would be willing to do this but my wife is not a fan of having someone come into the home who is not bonded. Can a personal person get themself bonded? What are the risks to our home having a caregiver?
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Just checking in. I hope you have had some luck with something. I will be cheering you on.
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Ditto! You need the advice of a good elder law attorney. Get some recommendations and then make an appointment. Today.
Your dad's brother is not caring for your dad, you are. The money doesn't belong to your uncle, it belongs to your dad and should be used for his care and living expenses, including Al or SNF, if needed.
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Go to a Lawyer. He is not acting in the best interest of your father. This is a definite no no. Also call Adult protective services on his brother and report the situation to them. This is not how a POA should be handling matters. He, if he has the means, should be able to put in an assisted living facility. This is not up to the POA. Call Adult protection services, a visit from them to the POA might help facilitate getting your dad the care he needs. If the money is not there than your dad might qualify for medicaid and a medicaid provider to come in during the day to help him with meds. and bathing.
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POA is dad's brother.
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My first question would be 'who is the POA' because not allowing your father to have help with daily needs while you're not present is an irresponsible decision.

Yes, there have been occasions where caregivers have sued the estate but I wouldn't wait for that. I would seek the help of an elderlaw attorney to help you get funds to help care for your Dad safely. Yes, there will be an initial expense but that expense may actually come out of your father's estate if the attorney is able to either convince the POA or win a case in court.

Caregivers can receive salaries and compensation for their expenses paid from the care recipient's estate. The lawyer can set that up for you. If the POA is a "public guardian", this may be a bit more difficult but still easier than suing the estate after your father passes.

Thanks for your dedication,

Shelley Webb RN
Geriatric Care Manager
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