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So my dad has pushed me to the limit. I can't do it anymore. Going to leave and set him up with some wellness checks and elder services help. It has to be free or he won't sign-up for anything. But I can't do it anymore. He doesn't believe or trust me. His meanness and dementia has gotten the best of me and I can't take it.

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Have you asked them if he can change the accounts if he gets mad at you? It is not a question of them caring, It is a question of them cooperating with you in carrying out the responsibilities of the POA. The lawyer died. I think you need to get another one who deals with seniors. Are you pursuing getting conservatorship?

What did other people do? Several have written what they have done. Some people notify the authorities and walk away until the senior ends up in hospital from a fall or such and then the system says he cannot live alone and you work with the staff to get him the care he needs whether he likes it or not. That may mean putting him in a facility or laying down the condition to him that if he wants to go home he has to accept help. No one is saying that these times of transition are easy. They are not. And the caregiver often has to move from being in a child-parent relationship or an adult-adult relationship to being in a parent-child relationship where the caregiver is the parent, and the parent is the child because the parent can no longer look after themselves. You seem to be having trouble with that.
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He has been deemed incompitant. But I don't think the bank would care. I have given then a copy of the DPOA, they did not want the neurological diagnosis report of the demetia. I don't think they want to get in the middle. Wondering what other people have done in s situation like this.
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You can't stop him getting pissed off.

You need to go to his bank and ask to see whoever deals with this kind of situation. Bring with you the POA document and anything you have in writing about him being incompetent. Discuss with the bank personnel how best to deal with it, If you have POA and he is officially incompetent, you are in charge of his accounts. Again go to the professionals involved.

I took the POA document to my mothers bank and spoke with an accounts manager there which was who I was referred to when I called and explained the situation. She told me what they could and could not do and what I could and could not do. Tell them the medical information - that he cannot live alone and needs help and you need to use his money to hire help for him and he is resisting.
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Sea, if you have POA and has been judged incompetent, doesn't that mean he can't change anything that he's put in place?

In your position, I would involve dad in hiring helpers (a girl to do the laundry and cook)--put it into whatever terms he can wrap his brain around. Invite the neighbors to meet the help. Show the neighbors your paperwork and explain what the new setup is. Get phone numbers from them and give them yours. Encourage them to let you know if there's a problem.
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If you are conservator, you control his accounts. He would not personally have access to them except through you. If you are POA and he has not been deemed incompetent, he can dismiss you as POA and remove you from his account unless you are on as a joint owner of the account.
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Ok, I have another question. If your going to hire some help to take care of Meds and food shopping and my dad doesn't want to pay cause he thinks he can do it himself by "using" a neighbor to get to the store. How do I pay these people with his money and him not getting pissed and removing me form his account ?
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Seacoast, if you win in court, the Judge will order who pays what. In our case, mom failed the competency test and Judge ordered the $5K be paid from her funds. Conservators are sometimes awarded annual fees for service as well.
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I forgot to say that the man paid the $10K out of his own money. Of course, the conservator had to handle it. :)
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It was a one-time payment of $10K that covered all the legal battles and court expenses of setting up the conservatorship. There may have been some battling going on among the parties, which may have affected the price. There is an attorney who serves as conservator. I don't know how much he charges for the service. He has the man's spending cut down to the bare bones. The conservator takes care of all the bills. I believe the man gets about $125 a month for spending money. His girlfriend gets about the same for keeping the house clean. (She doesn't live with him.)
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Who is paying the 10k ? The man or the conservator ? Hast to be the man
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QUIT QUIT QUIT... dont feel guilty. Care giving is often thankless! The very fact that you've been participating here, sharing your challenges shows you care in the midst of all the angst. Please be gentle and kind to yourself in your decision.
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Sea, you're right about the role of conservator. You'll be able to set your father up on an allowance and pay his bills. You'll also be able to arrange to pay people who come in to help your father. I know a man who has a conservator. The conservator handles anything to do with money and the man gets a small allowance. The nice thing is that the man cannot go against the decision of the conservator. The bad thing is that it costs a good bit to set up -- $10K in the case of the man I know, from what he said. It was worth it, though, since he was giving his money away and gambling. The children filed for an attorney to be conservator before he threw away all his money.
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Sea, Great! I have been waiting for you to consult one or more of the agencies mentioned. That is what they are there for and they have info that applies to the area you are in, Sounds like a good move. Remember, as you have POA medical, you can consult with your dad's doctor as to what he needs medically.
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Ok, been to Councel on Aging and a wonderful women Hilda had a lot of info, she was very helpful. I'm going to probate for conservator so I can use my dads money and get him services so I can move on with my life. Here in Massachusetts guardianship and conservator are separate. Pretty sure guardianship is not what I'm looking for, I just need to manage my dads care with his money. I wish I went to Hilda on day one of moving down here.
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Unfortunately the lawyer passed away unexpectedly, I used him for many things to help me with him and some of my own stuff. he was a great guy & my dad liked him and trusted him.
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Was the D POA drawn up by an eldercare attorney? You can take dad to the attorney and have HIM explain it to your father. Get his bills and such set up online and stop trying to do the hands on thing.
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Yes cmagnum you are correct, I have DPOA and he has been deemed incompetent. I don't see anything specific in the DPOA to when it is inacted/invoked. Am I to assume it is in effect from the date it's signed by him and he his deemed incompetent ? Guess I need to sit with someone and have him explain how I handle this. I would like to set up help for him, take care of his bills correctly so he doesn't get himself into trouble which I see coming very soon. Then I can leave and get my life back on track.
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Sea, I just woke up so I can't say that I'm totally awake, but I do remember that you wrote that a psychiatrist deemed your dad to be incompetent. Right? And your dad had already appointed you DPOA and health care proxy. Right? Most Durable POAs only require for a doctor like a psychiatrist to deem the person incompetent for the DPOA to be activated. So, unless I missing something and the DPOA says something different about being activated which you will need to read to see, then your have DPOA authority over his fiances and could set up paid services with the money from his account despite his objections because he has been deemed no longer competent to handle his personal business in a business like manner.

For the state to take over, you would need to resign from being DPOA and medical proxy. That like Emjo23 wrote this means it would be wise to check with the local agencies and lawyer about resigning your DPOA and medical proxy because you are just not in a position to do these things and wish for the state to take over. I hope that I have added some clarity to this matter and not confused things more.
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sea - you are right, you cannot make him do anything, but POA you can then talk freely with his doctor, banker etc. Others here have found that if the "bad news" about, for example, not being able to live alone comes from a professional it may be taken more seriously, You could also ask the local Social Services, I believe it is, to come and do an in-house evaluation. If they decide he can't live alone, then I think they can work on convincing him. It often comes better from a non family member. It sounds like he should have regular in home care or be in a facility. As I mentioned before, if he goes to hospital you can refuse to take him back or refuse to go back and care for him which puts the burden on them to find a suitable setting for him.

I guess what I have been trying to say is that it is time to get professionals involved.

My mother was getting more and more paranoid in her ALF. A community mental health team had been assigned to visit her after a hospitalization, and they did "casual" assessments and those together with input from me and her case worker caused them to make the decision to hospitalize her in a geriatric psychiatric hospital where she still is, awaiting placement in a mental heath facility. She wanted to move to another ALF as hers was not treating her right, in her view. It would not have solved anything. She is now on an antipsychotic and much calmer and easier to get along with. She refused to take the antipsychotic before, but they worked with her - in the safe environment of the hospital - and she has agreed to it now. She is very stubborn too and has Borderline Personality Disorder which means she is a control freak and an angry person. The last couple of years have been particularly hard with the onset of dementia and paranoia. These times of transition often are, but I think we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel now. I did nothing about her finances despite a few errors on her part until she sent me her cheque books and basically told me to take over, She would have fought me tooth and nail otherwise. Then I went to her bank. I am a distance caregiver. I am 5 hrs drive away from my mother, and made trips down to meet with the bank, to see the psychiatrist who was part of the community mental health team, to meet with the staff at the psychiatric hospital etc. She actually has not been declared incompetent other than in the area of making health decisions for herself, but I was urged by her lawyer to step in when I saw the errors she was making with her money. Fortunately they were small sums, but showed her increasing inability to manage her money.

Re the financial side of things, if he is not having trouble managing his finances (I can't remember from your other thread) then I don't see any need for you to become involved at this point. Misplacing cash, forgetting PIN numbers is often a first warning sign of dementia.You need to read your documents to see what your responsibilities are. If you intend to keep being the POA it would also be wise to check with one of the local agencies and/or lawyer already mentioned what your responsibilities are and if you can get into trouble for walking away. If you intend to resign from being POA etc. then it would be good to check with them about any implications for you. If he is incompetent and there is no one who is appointed POA then believe the job falls to the state. You will notice that I would things "I believe", "may" and so on. I am in Canada and it works a little differently here though there are similarities

I have been waiting for you to post that you had spoken to the local Agency for Aging, or local APS and they told you .....this or that. All we can do here is give you pointers to follow up. Things can differ even from one state to another.

Hope some of this helps. I can only stress that you get the professionals involved. Good luck
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Emjo23, he has appointed me DPOA, healthcare proxy. But I don't see what they do as long as he say no
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Means he can no longer look after himself ! Which means he will have to have a caregiver come in or go to a facility.
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I wrote "if he is declared incompetent". I am a little out of my element here as I am not in the US. If I were you I would go the Agency for Aging and/or APS and ask them what your options are considering that a psychologist has declared your dad incompetent and he refuses care and you cannot stay there without an income and without his cooperation. If you are not looking at guardianship and he has not appointed you POA medical and financial, I don't think you have any other options in between. If he falls, for example, and goes to hospital and they declare that he cannot return home without care in place at home and contact you, you can say you are unable to give him that care, then it is up to the state to find a placement for him, and they take over the business of looking after him, including managing his assets to pay for his care. That's as much as know.

You can google regarding getting a state appointed guardian and/or check with your lawyer who should know. Good luck. It is a very difficult situation.
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By deemed incompetent means that a doctor, usually a neurologist, and sometimes a psychiatrist evaluates the person as no longer being competent to handle their affairs in a business like manner. It takes two doctors saying that in court for someone to get guardianship which you don't have the money for and you are right will cause a lot more friction.

I don't know the steps to do this but it is possible for the state to appoint a guardian for him since he is incompetent, in need and no one is in a position to step up to become a guardian. I know this takes place, but I don't know how it gets done.

I'm sure someone here must know how that gets done.
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I have another question. Someone said "if he is deemed incompetent", I want to know what they mean deemed ? He has been tested by a phsychologist and his findings where he is incompetent. Is there another step beyond that, that changes what I can do ? I'm not looking for guardianship, I have talked to a lawyer about that and I don't want that route. Cost money I don't have and makes more friction.
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Sea your are in a difficult situation torn between family, guilty feelings, frustration, anger, hurt and the concerning health of your father knowing he is unwillingly saying yes to free care? He is manipulating you right till the end. Stay strong my friend! Thiink of yourself! I am going through the samething but it is my mother. I know sometimes it is really confusing and hard to decide what to do the guilty feelings just overpower but start by talking to a counselor. That was a great improvement for my mother and I. Its a big hill but you can do it.
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sea, I don't think you are missing anything but it is very sensible of you to make sure. Check with your Agency for Aging, They should be able to give you the run down about what, if anything, is available at no cost to your dad. Check with his doctor, if you can, if there are any services available to your dad. We have seen cases here before where the parent refuses help. The system, very reasonably in my view, expects those who have assets to spend them on their own care. I think it is wise to see that anyone involved in your dad's care has your contact information, as his dementia will worsen and will likely eventually result in a hospital stay. You may at some point have to apply for guardianship - that would be if he is declared incompetent and has not set up POA financial and medical. Or his care could go to the state. He is fortunate to have you even if he does not recognize it.

overwhelm - if your mother and stepdad refuse respite care that is their choice. Don't make it your problem. Make a plan and stick to it despite their emotional blackmail. Whatever help they need does not have to come from you. They both are competent and, like sea's dad, can make decisions about their own care. You are not responsible for everything.
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Sea, we can only do what they will let us do unless they have been deemed legally incompetent. If he is competent and refuses to hire someone to come in to help, there is little we can do except wait. The circumstance you describe of the parent wanting to stay home and not have anyone else in the house is the reason so many caregivers end up moving in with or close to their parent. When the parent is difficult, it can make for a very unhappy life for the caregiver. I know that I am preaching to the choir here. :)
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You know people say they bring in care but are you paying for it ? My dad will not shell out a dime for any help. Just trying to understand if I'm missing something I could or should be doing.
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So sorry to hear the stress and guilty feelings you are going through. I know times are really tough right now. Especially your Dad being sick and having a really nasty demeanor towards you. I truly can relate. Stay strong and do what's best for yourself for your own well being. I have decide to bring in respite care this spring so my partner and I can move on. I have come to the conclusions that it is time to break a promise I cannot keep for my mother's needs. I will probably be posting in the near future of the guilty feelings etc.…....lol Hopefully my mom and stepdad except respite care??
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(((((sea))) the advice to the person on the other thread is the same as people have given you here, which is to look after you. You need an income, you need to be planning for your retirement, you have a girlfriend and need time with her and you need to pursue whatever your interests are. You need a life of your own. I hear you say that your relationship with your dad was never very close and I wonder if you are trying to attain that now.

Many here who did not have good parenting are trying to finally obtain that from their aging and often demented parent. You think - consciously or otherwise - that if you do enough of the right things finally they will change. Unfortunately they don't change and they can get much worse. He is who he is - defiant, selfish, mean, and probably getting worse. I am sure that being there is taking a toll on you. Are you hoping that your inheritance will keep you afloat as you age? If he has assets and needs to go into a facility, they can eat up those assets pretty quickly.

Please look ahead for you and for what is likely to happen to your dad. I don't think it is wise for anyone to give up working unless them themselves have enough assets to survive on for the rest of their lives. He may go quickly or he may linger. No one knows at this point. Please look after your own interests. You lost everything once before - do you want to do that again?
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